Clergy Meet With Premier, Minister, Senator

February 6, 2013 | 75 Comments

Fifteen members of the clergy joined Premier Craig Cannonier, Minister of Public Safety Michael Dunkley and Junior Minister Senator Jeff Baron at the Cabinet Office today [Feb 6], where they expressed their desire to see the Government address some enforcement issues such as action on tinted helmet visors and consistency in sentencing for offences.

The Ministry of Public Safety organised the first of its community engagement meetings and convened members of the clergy firstly from the Hamilton and surrounding area of the Island.

clergy meeting feb 2013 2

Premier Cannonier said, “As I have said before, all Ministers have been challenged to determine how to integrate anti-gang initiatives into their ministries. This meeting was a crucial first step in engaging the community in our efforts. Members of the clergy shared their passion and their determination to work with the Government to the benefit of Bermuda.”

Bishop Vernon Lambe Sr.  urged that this “national problem” could only be solved by taking “national steps” including close collaboration of all stakeholders and an open admission of the origins of the problems. The challenge, Bishop Lambe said, “is to convince our young people that we are serious”.

clergy meeting feb 2013

The recommendation of Bishop Lloyd Duncan for a National Day of Prayer was roundly supported by the meeting. “We must call the community together to pray for Bermuda, seeking God’s guidance and ensuring that He is in the midst of all that we do to resolve these issues,” he said.

Pastor Kenneth Manders of the Hamilton Seventh-Day Adventist Church spoke of the need to “bring healing to the victims’ families” and added also, “if we know who we are dealing with, we must determine what we can do to get close to them and heal their hurt”.

Members of the clergy also expressed their desire to see the Government address some enforcement issues:

  • Action on tinted helmet visors
  • Consistency in sentencing for offences
  • Ensuring that the Police have the resources to tackle crime
  • Ensuring that imprisonment acts as the deterrent intended by the criminal justice system and the community.

Minister Dunkley said, “The Government is committed to working with every sector of the community to make their outreach more effective. Strong enforcement is one part of the equation and the importance of it is seen in our constant support of deliberate police action in the fight against guns, gangs, drugs and violence.

“However, in this first of a series of community engagement meetings, we determined to deal with the spiritual foundation of truth and love that must be re-energized in our families and in the community. We must impact people where they are and spiritual leaders are ideally placed to lead the transformation of lives that must occur if we are to make Bermuda safe again.”

The Minister also indicated that further meetings are also planned with clergy from other areas of the Island.

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Comments (75)

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  1. YADON says:

    Ban tinted visors lmao . If someone has the balls to carry a gun when they are illegal why would they care if tinted visors are illegal. Even if they are not sold here it is extremely easy to tint them at home. What about full face helmets , you can't ban them it is a safety issue. Also what do the clergy know about combating gang violence ?

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    • Sapphire says:

      @Yadon: I agree! Banning them will only affect innocent, law-abiding citizens! These guys are already riding around with loaded weapons, thus breaking the law. Therefore, what do they care about breaking another one by wearing illegal helmets?! They know the Police can't be everywhere and will take the risk of wearing them just like they already take the risk carrying around a gun.

      Things like this only serve to give the public a false sense of security that 'something is being done.' It won't stop these guys...

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      • ritards says:

        Hey guess what?
        Banning GUNS affects the innocent, law-abiding citizen too!

        You people cry and moan about a VISOR! Why don't you realize, it's more important to be able to identify the people who are about to cause an incident when they are BANNED! meaning People may note down license numbers, call the police, etc.

        It's a step in the right direction my friend. and unfortunately, people are too concerned about not being able to wear their visors....boo hoo ya bunch a nancy babies. Get a clear visor u tards.

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    • Out of flight says:

      This is easy to fix. Allow the police the right to photograph anyone with tinted visors. Profile and head shots. Then place a tracking device in the helmet when they take it off.Why do I say this? Yesterday I saw a man with a steel face and pointed nose....a mask and that is what will happen. But if police can stop anyone at anytime, people will naturally stop wearing the visor. Think about it.

      2. The churches can't do a think to help. They build for themselves and ignore the people. Their youth centres are as empty as their pews.

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      • Delaey Robinson says:

        Lets suppose that there are between 500 and 1000 tinted helmets that the police are able to tag electronically and track. Never mind the cost, technical nightmare and huge diversion of personnel required to monitor them and extract relevant data when one is found to be associated with a crime. Do you really believe that a tagged helmet would be worn by anyone with criminal intent? So the answer would be to tag all helmets...

        ...great idea theoretically, needs some tightening up for practical purposes.

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      • dthtoo/ says:

        Out of flight you said: 2. The churches can’t do a think to help. They build for themselves and ignore the people. Their youth centres are as empty as their pews.

        I agree! They are like greedy tax collectors, and none of their prayers are being heard. The saying goes: They are so heavenly-focused and of no earthly good. A house divided against itself will not stand. Think of all of the denominations on this island and they claim to subscribe to one and the same CREATOR and yet they themselves are divided in names and practises - religiously speaking. Therefore, the blind can in no way lead the blind to a place of safety. This island needs to learn the truth about religion and whose teachings have been imposed upon whom and for what reason. Not to worry that day is soon coming.

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  2. wtf says:

    And what exactly is the action plan for tinted visors?? So does the plan include banning the general public from wearing tinted visors?? Are you serious that is a bunch of BS and that will in now way deter crime. These criminals won't stop covering their face because of little law, they are committing murders.

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  3. What? says:

    Ban tinted visors....? So the innocent will once again suffer for the guilty. I'll just cover my face with something else then. Are you next going to ban scarfs, turtle neck sweaters, big sunglasses, hoodies? What about full faced helmets? (which are much safer for you) I can't recognize somebody's face when they are wearing one of those. And what's going to stop them from using a tinted visor anyway. You can't find the guns what makes you think you'll find a visor being used to do a shooting. Just use the visor for your hit then put on your regular helmet later (or just flick up the tinted visor when your done). Common sense tells me when I look around that banning things doesn't work. I can still readily buy pit bulls, drugs and even a gun if I really wanted one. If you ban tinted visors from being imported you can just tint it with something else (residential window tint for instance - or will you ban that as well). Do some real police work you lazy, worthless officers (and mostly paid off by the people doing this stuff, I have seen it first hand. You never see the King Fish going down) The police need to be cleaned up first.

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    • rock says:

      1) Banning tinted visors would make it easier to identify people committing crimes (if they still choose to wear them). Im not saying currently that is the case, Im saying if they are banned, then only people with something to hide would wear them. Doing anything to make it more difficult for people to disguise themselves is a help.
      2) If you are so concerned about your full face helmet safety, buy one without a tinted visor and just wear sunglasses.
      3) If you can so "readily buy a gun if you really wanted one" then how about you let the police know your source or stop making ignorant comments.

      Stop being greedy and be willing to give up insignificant things (tinted visors) to allow a change process to occur. Furthermore stop criticising the police and people who are taking action.

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  4. WTF says:

    Can someone please explain to me how a ban on tinted visors will help improve public safety? Inconveniencing criminals is not an effective way of improving public safety. Banning tinted visors would be just as an effective way to deter crime as banning cigarette lighters would be to deter smoking.

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    • sharky says:

      In any civilized city in the world you would be arrested on site if you walked into a public place with your face hidden by a bandana, scarf, ski mask or hoodie. Yet here a person can hide behind a dark visor anywhere. Even at night when the sun is not an issue. Banning tinted visors is a no brainer. Don't even go near the constitutional rights issue. Its war our there.

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      • Come Correct says:

        So use it against them! Law abiding citizens dont wear tinted visors at night. It's so simple its not funny. You see someone riding a bike with a passenger and both have tinted visors, pull them over and search them. The police searched me for absolutely no reason...wait sorry, I "fit the description of the person they were looking for". So if the police can search me because I resemble a medium build spic between the height of 5'10 3/4" and 5'11 1/2" they can search these prics. Just in case you hadnt realized (which is pretty clear) this is not war, its genocide, ask yourself why nothing has been done. I'll repeat NOTHING has been done. If I was in the police I would eat, sleep, drink, walk, and sh!t gang prevention. 5 years, for real, 5 years and nobody has a f@ckin clue. Banning visors wont do jack, increased prison sentences for known (BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT) gang members wont do jack. Wake the f@ck up Bermuda. I have no evidence for this so all I'll say is BPS clean out your closet, starting from the top down, what im referring to is so blatant its ridiculous.

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      • stand up says:

        Sharky, people only wear helmets when they "RIDE BIKES". You cannot wear your helmet even with a "clear visor" in public places like gas stations or grocery stores. So what point are you really trying to make? If you think banning tinted visors will deter crime then someone has fooled you.

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  5. smiths says:

    as a suggestion for punishment and using the church outreach has a solution, have the courts give two options. 1) HEFTY fine and long imprisonment or 2) group church therapy with a smaller fine and parole. Let the individual make the choice.

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  6. Let me first of all give respect to those who were in attendance to this meeting but at the same time show my dissattisfaction to the fact that the meeting seemed as if it is somewhat bias.

    As we know many schedules may not be able to coincide with each other and therefore others may not been in attendance for that reason,but looking around that table I see that there are several ministers that was not present that should have been and those that I am thinking of,play a major role in the communities across Bermuda.

    I believe each and every minister present has a role to play in the issue at hand but the hard core reality of those that are already out in the trenches and dont do it for reconition,are in my view the ones who should have been included in this forum,that is not to say that some of those present are not actively involved in the community but I will say that we have a serious black on black crime rate and those that should be there are not.

    This also leads to part of the problem where to many of the clergy in my view if not in the front line,dont join nobodys line.for to long there has been a mjor division between the ministers themselves and as I stated when Mr Dunkley first announced this initative,that if the ministers of the churches do not clean up their act toward each other,it dont make no sense sitting around a table trying to combat issues that will only take them out because of their divisions toward each other.

    So before someone thinks this is church or Bible bashing,no I truly believe the church has and is the answer to social ills but the likes of some that are in a position of authority and not using it to it's fullest potential,can create a worst state of affairs and they know exactly what I am talking about.

    If I had to quote a text from the Bible to back up what I am saying without going into full details,I would put it like this,the Bible states if a brother has ought with another,he is to leave his gifts at the alter and go straighten out the matter with the other and if that person refuses to sit and reason,you go back and take others with you to try and resolve the matter.

    Now the biggest issue I have is that most ministers dont even want to acknowledge that they do have ought against another,as long as they can avoid each other,they feel as if it is not an issue and it dont need to be addressed,so I say dont be fooled becasue God promised each and everyone of us,that whatsoever a man soweth ,that shall he also reap,so if we sow corruption,we are going to reap it and I think the church ahs been guilty long enough and now need to own up to its wrong by cleaning up in our own house first,then we will be ready for the forces out here.

    Until then you are just a joke to those out here that hear you speaking but dont believe a Word you say,now this may sound harsh adn I am included in this number,we as the blood wash church need to get it together,I dont belong to any other form of religious orginization,so I am talking to those who claim the name of our Lord and Savoir Jesus Christ.

    You donr need to respond as I am only a messenger and your judge is Almighty God,so if you are in His divine will and walking according to His purpose,this message is not for you and those who it rubs the wrong way it is for you for sure.

    Mr Dunkley go back to the drawing table and if you have to do several meetings,then do so but include all the clergy as Dr Ewart Brown did a few years ago and they basically left with egg on their faces,because the same issue he threw at them,is what I am doing here today and they have not address it to this day,so do they really want change.

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    • Legacy says:

      @Duane: Another scripture that comes to mind is the one where Jesus says that before one points out a splinter in another's eye, first let him take the boulder out of his own eye. Once he has taken the boulder out of his own eye, then he will be able to clearly see the splinter in his brother's eye.

      I think too often people look at each other's faults without addressing their own and some of the ministers are no different. The Church does indeed have to get itself straight before it can attempt to get society straight. One could even go so far as to say that the devil is having a field day doing damage because he knows the Church is too distracted with its own problems.

      If the Churches can come together, they would be a mighty force to be reckoned with and let the devil know that we are taking this island back and to take his evil deeds elsewhere. One thing I would like to see is the churches come together-ALL OF THEM-to march and anoint this whole island east to west and let the devil know we are taking this island back and drive every evil, demonic spirit from this place. IT CAN BE DONE!!!

      I am a realistic person as well and I know there are many other things that have to be done-tougher laws, etc. However, I just feel that there are demons infesting so many of these guys the way they can just kill with no mercy and think nothing of it. I have never seen such devastation in this island-not only murders but tragic, freak accidents and the like with too many of our men going too soon. In addition to murders, so many men have died on our roads or in other accidents leaving children behind fatherless. It's like our next generation is being set up now to go even further astray by taking out the head of the household. We need help from a higher power on this. God has the answers, and I'm happy that Premier Cannonier is humble enough to accept that the Church has an important role to play here. He isn't only looking to his advisers-he knows he has the best adviser on speed-dial!

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    • Out of flight says:

      You are 100% correct.

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  7. Come On Man!! says:

    All the scums will do is put on a scarf over their faces just before they act. So what's the point. That's not gonna stop them.

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  8. ... says:

    The public should report all license plate numbers of bikes they see with the driver and/or passenger wearing tinted visors. BPS can keep a database of time, date, name etc....

    It can then be used as SUPPORTING evidence to a crime...

    But then again...the public to date hasn't been much help so this probably wouldn't work.

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    • sonoso says:

      they are stealing bikes to commit the crimes, and then ditching them somewhere in the bushes, good try though

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      • LOL (original TM*) says:

        Yup steeling bikes then committing crime and even when you give them city camera information to check they don't look and/or don't tell you them looked at all giving the impression that they didn't look destroying any credibility they might have tried to build in the community thus no one wants to be a witness to anything cause the police are seen to be inadequate.......

        LOL

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  9. Come On Man!! says:

    A national day of prayer. How about some concrete solutions not some fantasy nonsense.

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  10. cant fool me says:

    ALL THESE CLERGY MEN ARE FULL OF IT ONLY THING THEY WORRIED ABOUT IS A DOLLAR BILL,N DUNKLEY IS A JOKER ALL THAT ELECTION HYPE ,FURTHER .MORE ALL THE EXTRA LAWS N POLICE CHECKS ONLY MESSED WIT LAW ABIDING CITIZENS OR SOMEONE WIT A JOINT OR TWO IT NEVER STOP THESE DUDES FROM MURDERING PPL.WAT THEY NEED TO DO IS TAKE THERE FIGHT DIRECTLY TO THE VERY PPL WHO ARE CAUSING IT THEYKNO WHO THEY ARE STOP PLAYING DUMB BPS......OR ARE THEY ---- LIKE SOME OF THE VICTIMS.......................PICK D BONES OUTTA DAT

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    • Concerned says:

      Well then cant fool me you should meet with the Pastors in your Community and work with them - stop knocking people who are going to come out of their 'boxes' and do someting.

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  11. Triangle Drifter says:

    "they expressed their desire to see the Government address some enforcement issues such as action on tinted helmet visors and consistency in sentencing for offences."

    So the churches went off to meet Government to ask Government to do something did they. What do the churches propose to do to help? Any ideas from them? Did they ask Government what they could do to help?

    A day of prayer will do nothing. Banning visors will do nothing. Getting out & occupying space where the gangs hang out will do plenty. The churches have far more two footed resources than the BPS. Get in the gangs faces. A bunch of bible thumpers hanging out on their selling turf will not be good for business. The mixing of members from various churches together hanging out would be a good thing.

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  12. Makes no Sense says:

    I have said it a million times before- banning these visors will not help. Like so many of you have said, if they are carrying a gun to commit a murder, will they care about a little thing such as a visor? The cc footage shows guys wearing blue raincoats, will that be banned next? Of course not! What the law should read is that there is some sort of punishment for using a tinted visor in the commission of a crime, just like a fake gun can carry the same penalty if used during a crime. There are so many every day items with a legitimate use that can be used for illegal purposes. Suppose guys are going around beating people with baseball or cricket bats. Do we then ban the bats and tell people no more games because a few idiots decide to use them illegally? Back in the day crash helmets used to be the weapon of choice during fights, should all helmets be banned? Look at how many people have been murdered with knives over the years, does that mean I should use plastic knives in my kitchen? I think you get the gist of it. Banning items will not make one ounce of difference.

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  13. M.P.Mountbatten JP says:

    Weak parents , weak teachers , weak police , weak judicial system and a party prison makes for strong a criminal atmosphere . Added to that is a greedy , money worshipping clergy who would rather talk the talk then walk the walk .

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  14. Please clergy man ...u just don't get it. Jesus would have the church open everyday scheduling programs everyday of the week. These men get paid a healthy check to just preach one day a week......looking for free afterschool care....christian retried volunteers to teach trade and life skills...it's so much they can do, but choose not 2.

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    • truthseeker(the original) says:

      Soooo, you are just absolutely positive that all the churches are the same and dont do anything to outreach to the community huh....
      hmmmm. when last have you been to all of the churches?

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  15. As I read the many blogs n the hopes of government n clergy binding together to stamp out our epidemic of unruliness is prehaps null n void. Firstly, once a seed in planted n starts the growing process, we notice its growth. There is a process in bringing up certain trees n bushes. We monitor its growth up n out; when we notice the tree beginning to grow somewhat wild, some call in the landscaper or do it yourself n bring that tree back to our desire so that it does not become obstructive to neighbors n the public. However, when we allow our trees n bushes to go buckwild n we don't maintain their wild growth, it becomes unmanagable n with no real hope of bringing it under subjection or manicuring them back to that which we hoped to achieve.
    It becomes hazardous, flammable, volatile n sometimes no easy passage to reach other trees n when we look we have a jungle of unmanageable trees in a clump. As much as we desire to maintain these trees after wild growth, we cannot unless they are cut down or the payloader ploughs them down. Unless we train up anything or anyone to represent the beauty they have with in, we will not be able to reach/teach them anything else, as obstruction n destruction is their only input. because they never were guided, manicured or trimmed to become a model citizen or that tree we want to keep groomed n neatly in order.
    The unfortunate part of this sad situation that bermuda fails to realise that the tree of gunslinging, the tree of drunk driving; the tree of child molestation; the tree of false teachers; the tree of money mongers... in church/ out of church; the tree of corruption; the tree of racism; the tree that has split bermuda so far apart n the tree of I don't care. All these tree has caused our passage to equal rights n justice impassable. Now batman n robin n the clergy wants to meet n cause even more havoc as most missed the landscaper n let the tree wind up to where we find ourselves n this island in now. Once any tree grabs solid roots n refuse to bulge; some other action must take place. Too many talking the talk but no one is really walking the walk. Those in the media are just that in the media. To ban visors, is like pruning a tree n it doesn't make no matter how many branches u cut off or trim.....that tree remains that tree with a few branches missing.
    We cannot stop this mess as it has been to long addressing it n now it is grown out of whack n gone absolutely buckwild; n so many are too blame, while many others suffer because monetary value is more important then human life. So before we upset the apple cart any further, let us see where all political parties has lead bermuda astray. What happens upstairs trickles on downstairs. Don't do the wrong thing. It is in place n the trouble with start......is to stop. Wish u all the best. We are but mere man. What's next????????? Make the right decision mhd.

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  16. Oh this is Funny says:

    All Craig seems to do is TALK. TALK TALK TALK and no action.

    Thats all we get from this government.. TALK. Bunch of spin that don't mean ish!

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  17. fed up says:

    Yeah ban them and when you catch people wearing them confinscate them that way you can pick out som somebody who might be going to do a crime faster once you see the dark visor

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  18. Bonsai says:

    Just ban helmets, back to the good ol' days. Let your weave blow in the breeze..............

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  19. HeySeuss says:

    A room full of loonies who believe in a made up man and act as if they are normal people.

    When you talk to god it is called normal and acceptable. But when he talks back they lock you up and call you crazy.

    The stories found in the bible are laughable. Too bad so many people take them at face value and try to ram it down other's throats.

    How were women created? How old is the earth? Where/when did dinosaurs live?

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    • truthseeker(the original) says:

      ok,
      so in other words the big bang theory is valid and all this perfection on earth is has evolved from a coincidental atom collision......
      I would rather have faith in a Divine Creator, and our small minds are no-where big enough to try and fathom this

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  20. Rockfish#1 says:

    If these pastors,reverends, rabbis, elders, bishops continue bashing each others denominations, how the hell can they expect these young people, or even the older ones to pay any attention to them.

    Let's see them agree on the Saturday/ Sunday worship issue.
    Why not have SDA Pastor Manders preach in an AME church at the Sunday morning service, or at the Roman Catholic Church located a few blocks from his church. Perhaps Bishop Lambe can be invited to do the same at the Hamilton SDA Saturday morning service.

    I could go on, but the point is made.

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    • Speak in fine print, but hear me in bold says:

      point heard

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    • Real Talk (original) says:

      They don't have to "agree" to it. They have different beliefs which as individuals they are entitled to. That's like asking you to put on a Liverpool jersey and sit in the Home Section at Anfield for Liv-United when you're a United fan.

      They don't need to "agree" on a day of worship issue, which is a personal belief. They're not the ones shooting each other.

      What they do seem to agree on is that there is a need to do something greater and the church plays a pivotal role. That's the only thing that matters.

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      • Rockfish#1 says:

        Real talk (original) You have missed the point completely!

        They all believe in the same God and preach from the same bible that forms the base for their denominations, yet they all have different interpretations of it.

        One denomination forbids smoking, another allows it. One forbids drinking alcohol, another allows it. One allows females to wear earrings, another forbids it. The same contradictions apply to dress/ skirt lengths, even wearing makeup in tightly controlled in some churches.

        If they cannot sort themselves out, it is unrealistic to expect them to help with this problem. All they are doing is causing more confusion.
        Except for photo ops, you seldom see these people together-Why?

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        • Real Talk (original) says:

          NO, actually YOU missed the point mate. There is nothing to "sort out". Different denominations have different beliefs. Just as there are different sports teams, political ideologies, etc. And they do so without bloodshed.

          The only ones who need "sorting out" are the individuals running around shooting each other and the broader community that has fostered this unacceptable climate.

          Whether you go to church on Saturday or Sunday, eat pork or not, call him God, Jehovah or Allah is largely irrelevant. What is relevant is that individuals can get along peacefully, side by side building a constructive community in spite of our belief differences. That's a bigger (and more realistic) state than expecting everybody to suddenly have an ephiphany about which day to worship on.

          They can "sort themselves" out without selling out their own individual believes.

          1 Corinthians 13:13 - "And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love"

          Show more love, Bermuda.

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    • Ant Sim says:

      well I know for certain the two churches I attend have different pastors from different denominations preach. And my friend who attend church on a regular basis have other pastors preach here as well. so before you start bashing find out the truth. I go Methodist church. And if we all start to do something no matter how small there would be a big change. as my pastor said this Sunday MYOB. do your part that God has called you to do and don't worry about what the Next person is or isn't doing. all is for the Glory of God, he knows our hearts.

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  21. wow says:

    The recommendation of Bishop Lloyd Duncan for a National Day of Prayer was roundly supported by the meeting. “We must call the community together to pray for Bermuda, seeking God’s guidance and ensuring that He is in the midst of all that we do to resolve these issues,”

    Are they serious?? I don't bash religion, people have the right to believe in what/who they do, but I am pretty sure after each bad thing that happens in Bermuda we have at least one church or congregation praying for the social ills of this island to stop and what does this do? We have more than enough prayers going around to bring Jesus back from the dead. It's time for action, not prayer!

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  22. Nuffin but de Truth! says:

    ALL talk and NO action.

    Until Bermuda gets real tough on these lil b@st@rds NOTHING is going to change.

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  23. Me says:

    I say it time and time again. This isn't the governments problem or the police problem. It's the PARENTS. You lay down and make these children now you must raise them. Parents being abcent wanting to do their OWN thing on a Friday night..... No you need to spend QUALITY time with your children. You children need and want you. Yes, the church should be able to provide additional support in raising your child but come on parents stand up, wake up, you gave up ur right to do what you please as you please the day you gave birth. Yes we all want a break but you have to take care of your responsibilities first. These young boys are crying out for attention. And the thing is when they where 5 and 6 schools, aunty's uncles granny's told mama n daddy you need to take hold of Johnny. These boys didn't wake up on the day n say hey I'm going kill someone today. They have had issues from long time.

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  24. me says:

    Why don't they find a few gang members in prision who want to change their lives and they can give some ideas on what to do. Or, how about banned bikes from the roads from 10am-5am? It would prevent accidents and late night shootings.

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  25. I've spoken on banning full tinted visors before and nothing has changed my mind for the simple reason that right now the wearing of full face tinted visors is a LEGITIMATE disguise for anyone in public. Now if they are banned it means that anyone wearing one is treated as a suspected person and liable to be stopped and questioned and then reported.Of course if they want to go about shooting people then they cannot ride around with their legitimate and will take to wearing another form of facial disguise like a scarf or balaclava. Now if you saw two men in public wearing dark clothing or balaclavas/ scarfs to hide their faces would you not be suspicious and have cause to take a more mental note of their description/clothing/license plate number and report it, of course you would. Now the scarves/balaclavas that would be used for the crimes are important pieces of evidence if they are found.....you must have heard about DNA by now. People objected to being 'forced' in the seventies to wear crash helmets lately to the wearing of seat belts, and the banning of tinted windows in cars so what is the big deal about banning tinted full face visors if it deters the criminals from having a LEGITIMATE facial disguise.

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    • VL says:

      Guns are banned. This has not stopped the shootings! If someone is willing to take the chance to ride around with a loaded, prohibited weapon then they will be willing to ride around with a "banned" visor. Furthermore, people are not all of a sudden going to be more willing to talk to the police to give those descriptions you described. Lots of times, people may see things but they aren't willing to open their chops and tell the police what they saw. When these murders happen in these inner neighborhoods, so many of them have such an intense mistrust of the police and simply won't talk. Criminals always manage to stay one step ahead of the rest of us civilized people. They have nothing but pure time on their hands to plot and scheme, so when we ban tinted visors they will only move on to something else.

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    • Come Correct says:

      Or they'll stop covering their identity and start shooting witnesses. Does that sound better? Dark visors dont have to be banned for you to search anyone wearing one, dont like being searched dont wear one, simple.

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  26. soon & very soon says:

    It is a sad day in Bermuda when we have so much public outcry against the Church and prayer. Its this spirit that has overcome our island and contributing greatly to the destruction we are facing. I for one will continue to and support those who are prayig for Bermuda. I KNOW that prayer changes things.

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  27. Concerned says:

    Rev. Burgess - the only Pastor that I know of that shows up, prays and works with everybody. We need more Pastors like him and he is respected anywhere and everywhere he goes.

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  28. Y-Gurl says:

    What a stupid and cowardly suggestion, ban tinted visors, really!! guns are banned and we all know how good thats working out for our community, whats next, ban scarves, hoodies, ski masks, paper bags, how about dealing with the REAL problem head on instaed of skirting around the problem, get the police to do their job, the Governor should do his by making the police do their job or start firing those at the top, and Goverment needs to do their job and do it properly and leave the faith based anything out of it.
    Clearly the whole problem has got worse under the current police management as they all hide waiting on their pensions kicking in, we need acion Mr Governor not meetings (photo ops) to decide what to ban. And Dunkley you need to meet with an overseas gang sqaud that can get the job done not the people who decide the bingo hours in the local churches.

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  29. soon & very soon says:

    It's a sad day in Bermuda when we have such public outcry AGAINST the CHURCH and PRAYER!!!It's that spirit which has takenover our island! We have a murderous and death spirit over this island!!! I for one will continue to pray for Bermuda and support those who do. I KNOW prayer changes things. We have tried so many other things, why not prayer? Even if you personally think it won't help, would it hurt?

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    • Ted says:

      The church is an outdated symbol of the past. Science is the way forward. The sooner most people realize this the better we will all be. Why are there so many religions and so many gods found throughout the world? You can't believe all are real so what makes your god the real one? It's laughable that so many people readily dismiss the gods from other religions but get mad when others denounce theirs. Newsflash: all gods are fake. They are made up. The bible is a compilation of fairtales and stories that should make people get locked up for believing in them. There should be no 'national' prayer day. No clergy/people of religion influencing public matters. There should be a clear separation of church and state. There are more churches per sq. mile in Bermuda than anywhere else. Why hasn't their collective prayer stopped the increase in islandwide violence? It's a sham. The sooner you and others realize it the better our collective selves will be. Churches preach bigotry cloaked under freedom of religious speech. You hate your fellow men yet claim to be one of god's children. Stone adulterers. Keep slaves. But that does't fit into your blinded view of whatever religion you claim to be. Being selective in what you follow from the bible shows you to be a joke. Sorry. It's a sham.

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  30. Delaey Robinson says:

    Bishop Lamb is right on the money with his call for, "an open admission of the origins of the problems".

    Youth almost always rebel from the strictures of parental and

    acceptable societal control when spreading their wings learning to

    fly on their own, testing the air. The less nurtured they have been

    in their early years of being socialised the more alienated they

    seem to become in the turbulent years of the transition to young

    adults. While they search around to take up the opportunities of

    societie's promises laid down over time, they come to see that those

    promises are not for everybody.

    While the oldest existing and significant divisions in Bermuda are

    undoubtedlly racial, the harshest and widest void between its

    peoples is definitely the income gap.

    In writing this I feel quite as hopeless and helpless as too many of

    our youth feel, knowing that little will be done and too late to

    make much difference any time soon.

    ...and soon, too soon, my own youth, 11 and 13 will be old enough to

    shoot and be shot at. I am not allowed to give up. I must continue

    to persue the idea that ways must be found to address the income gap

    which is one of the capital b Big things underlying this situation.

    So forgive me for this tedious campaign on behalf of our youth, it

    reminds me of the more than ten years of research and writing on the

    damage the drug war wrought on our youth and the mollasses response

    of legislators to recognise this and finally start to do something

    about it.

    For those who care about Bermuda's youth who might yet need

    convincing that the income gap plays a major role in setting the

    scene for todays gun violence, read, "The Spirit Level" by Wilkinson and Pickett.

    I bought a copy and had it delivered to the chair of the PLP committee set up to examine gun violence etc (chaired by MP Horton), I hope a few MP's got to read it.

    For further reading and research, go to: http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/resources/publications

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  31. Real Talk (original) says:

    Re: Banning of visors.

    Be careful what you ask for. As somebody else has pointed out, less anonymity may lead to the shooting of potential witnesses.

    Tinted visors aren't the problem. Until we tackle the problem at the root they will always find a way to commit their crimes.

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  32. Xman says:

    Had the Clergy come forward like this 20 years ago we might not have had so many of the PROBLEMS we have today.
    So many of Bermuda's social ills are talked about in Church - but after Church is over the Pastor's seem to go silent.
    If the Clergy played a bigger part in Govt. we could begin to come up with solutions on how to rid the Country of it's
    social Problems.- but than again many people are afraid that they could put a damper on there bad habits such as
    Smoking and Alcoholic Drinks and other stuff. - also bottled Alcoholic packeges is part of our tourist trade.[ another acepted sin]
    [2] Acepted Sin in Bermuda:
    [3] Pregnant without Marriage
    [4] Sports on Sundays while Church is in
    [5] people being Drunk
    [6] people being High on Drugs
    [7] Not going to Church
    [8] going to Jail as a status symbal
    [9] being part of a gang
    [10] having sex for money
    [11] watching pornography

    It's going to take a lot more than few good men to solve these problems.
    Hey! were is the rest of the Clergy in Bermuda anyway ?---- I thought that they all cared.-- YEAH RIGHT !

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    • Ted says:

      NO! The church/clergy should play absolutely no role in the governing of Bermuda! Your list of 'sins' is laughable... I bet half of those are nowhere to be found in your bible. The church has no real answers/solutions. Nobody does. It's not a fix that will just 'happen' due to X or Y or Z... it's going to take a generation or more. God has no answers. God isn't real!

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      • Xman says:

        @ Ted
        Sounds like you can use a little Church yourself.
        One of the problems we have in Bermuda is God is no longer a part of our the way we live.
        but if you don't believe in God than thats your thing.
        Unfortunatly it was ,Aldof Hitler's thing too - also thats way the young man today are so willing to kill
        with feeling no remorse .

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        • Ted says:

          Who's god? The christian god? The muslim god? The incan god? Tell me why one is real and the others aren't... I'm sure you readily dismiss all god's you don't claim to be your own. At least you're 99% atheist ;) Also, Hitler wasn't an atheist. But I guess you are used to lies and hate. Was jesus gay?

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  33. Winnie Dread says:

    Ha ha ha ha like if a ban is imposed on tinted visors that will help in anyway, case in point the St. Davids robbery last evening, didn't it say the person was wearing a hoodie and something else to mask his face. Where is the common sense approach to this, there are a billion and one things perpretrators can use to hide there identity, how about imposing a ban on dark clothes, dark motorcycles, dark helmets while we are at it. Or just ban motorcyclesbecause this seems to be the mode of trans used in all these acts, oh ban people too. Btw I thought guns were banned hmmmm food for thought before we go passing silly laws.

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  34. Ty says:

    There have been some good and constructive comments about this topic, and there have been some of the wall comments also.

    One individual made a comment that I am fully in agreement with and that is...... If you see young men from YOUR OWN NEIGHBOURHOODS congregating at a spot on a regular basis, then congregate with them.. you don't even need to speak to them, just be in their faces. Remember that is your neighbourhood also. If they move to a different spot in your neighbourhood....follow them. Remember... it's your neighbourhood also. Should they move to someones private yard then at least we can hold the owner of the property accountable for allowing whatever kind of activity that might go on - go on. If they (gang members) say they don't have to move because of whatever reason, say the same thing to them..... "we don't have to move either". What will they do... shoot the entire group of do-gooders

    And I really don't think it has to be the Church People.... it just has to be..... PEOPLE

    In short -- Be just as visible as you wish the Police to be.

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  35. Rockfish#1 says:

    Xman
    [4] Sports on Sundays while Church is in

    I don't what your point is, but there are churches in Bermuda that worship on Saturdays. In your view, is this right or wrong? What does the KJV Bible say?

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    • dthtoo/ says:

      If you are going by the KJV Bible you are most miserable. Do you really, honestly know who King James Stewart was apart from authorizing the Bible?

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  36. Larry says:

    Why can't I buy alcohol on Sunday??

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    • Deliverance says:

      I'm with you Larry! It's absolutely ridiculous that we cannot buy a bottle of wine (JC's first miracle BTW if you believe that rubbish!) on a Sunday nevermind we can't open the stores before 1pm. It's 2013 people. Bermuda is not a theocracy (spell?) and no religion should have ANY SAY in our governance. I have no problem with these people believing in whatever they want, just don't expect me to believe.

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  37. god1st says:

    winnie dread lol lol

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