Opinion: Famous On “The Politics Of Kumbaya”

March 25, 2014

[Opinion column written by Chris Famous]

Imagine all the people
Living life in peace…
You may say I’m a dreamer
But I’m not the only one
John Lennon

Recently there have been increased calls for bi-partisanship and cooperation amongst the political parties of Bermuda. This call has not only come from the people, but also from business leaders and some politicians themselves.

Whilst the notion of both parties working together is noble and desirable, it seems near impossible.

Take as a prime example some of the suggestions put forth by the PLP in our recent Budget Reply;

  • Online gaming
  • Modification of banking credit card fees
  • Modification of tax structures

Every last idea was thrown out of the window by the OBA. So to those that say the PLP is not putting forth ideas, they are dead wrong. It is the OBA who is rejecting every idea the PLP brings forth.

Dictators?

Flip the script. Whatever legislation that the OBA brings forth, they simply run ruffshod over any suggestions the PLP make to improve the legislation. The justification? They imply that the PLP is either silly, or have no idea of what we are talking about.

What the OBA does not realize is what this translates to many Bermudians that their ideas and concerns are neither valid, or of any value to the OBA. For many, it seems that the only time the OBA will listen is when Bermudians down tools and or march.

While I agree that this may be appear to be an extreme reaction, it has become obvious that this is the only language OBA understands. For good reason, many people of this Island no longer trust the OBA or take them for their word.

Back to Kumbaya

Over the years I have met many OBA supporters, MPs and Senators. Whilst we don’t see eye to eye on everything, we have a very cordial and respectful sense of humour with each other. Well, that’s most of the time. I personally would love to believe we can sit and hash things out for the betterment of all.

However, more often than not, the interests of the persons they represent, are diametrically opposed to the persons we represent. Hence, the never-ending death march we have been locked in for 400 years.

So where do every day Bermudians go from here?

At times, I honestly do not know what to tell the many Bermudians that are frustrated and tired with how the OBA is going about things. Many have reached the end of their rope. I am not going to sit up here and say, “Ok, let’s all join hands and sing as one,” because, quite frankly, too many OBA proposals or policies are detrimental to many of the people I know.

What I will say is that it is entirely up to the people to demand more of all elected officials. The will of 65,000 residents will always outweigh the will of 36 MPs.

Politics is but a window

As Bermudians we are separated into at least 4 different societies, based on:

  • Race
  • Nationality
  • Economics
  • Class

And as expected, our political parties represent these demographics accordingly. What is most important to acknowledge, is that politics is but a window into or respective of these societies. If the societies are at odds with each other, so too will be the political parties.

The best hope for “Political Kumbaya” is “Social Kumbaya”. Every one of us have that responsibility to seek both harmony and equality. Demand and develop peaceful solutions amongst yourselves, do not rely on 36 politicians to hold hands

The question that now remains is: how many of us truly do it, or want it?

Everyone is crying out for peace, yes
None is crying out for justice
Peter Tosh

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Comments (73)

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  1. Gotham says:

    Mr. Famous, you raise several interesting points regarding social diversity, especially among Bermudians. I honestly believe that our strength lies in our diversity and it is something to be embraced. Sadly, the notion of who is really a Bermudian has become a political construct that has degenerated into a nasty sectarianism that in recent times has inhibited progress and civilized dialog on all fronts. The sooner we all ditch this, the sooner we all can get on with the things that really matter like better schools, affordable housing, economic investment with Bermudian savings, etc – rather than begrudging the other guy’s successes…

    • ganja mon says:

      Talk about Dictators? Explain to us the Uighers that were brought to Bermuda under the cloak of darkness. Did all of the member of the PLP even know about this decision to illegally import these 4 people? Didnt the UK make clear they will not be given BOTC passports?

      Of course the OBA should reject or reverse all that silly policies they are now bringing to the table Explain to us “Bermudians” the benefits that the 262 year lease would have provided?

      Does this guy really think that all Bermudians are in support of these wild cat strikes? To protect the jobs of 4 bar porters, drunken ferry boat drivers and bus drivers that take sick leave, then go work somewhere else?

      Wake up and come back to reality Famous!!

  2. Navin Johnson says:

    Boring

    • ABM says:

      ^^WHAT A D!!

      • ABM says:

        Sorry for saying that, my apologies. I never resort to name calling, ever, but this time I caught myself slipping. You have my apologies for saying something so rude.

        • Navin Johnson says:

          If you are apologizing to me you need not. And Famous is a crashing boor

  3. frank says:

    it is very clear that the oba have their ageda and it is not one that will be good for the blue collar worker
    remember that the devil can take on any shape or form

    • Al says:

      The PLP are the ones who left many blue collar workers making the same wages in 2012 as in 1999 despite huge cost of living increases.

    • aceboy says:

      Yea, because unless you totally go along with the needs and wants of blue collar workers…the devil must be involved. lol

    • Mike Hind says:

      It think it’s more that they’re not concerned with JUST the blue collar worker.

    • Hmmm says:

      You are being the DEVIL frank, thanks for clarifying your purpose.

      • Oliver says:

        Calm down ma’am. Watch your pressure. Just relax and enjoy your time here on our beautiful Island. It may be rainy and overcast from time to time but at least you’re not home driving in the snow.

  4. Chris Famous says:

    We all are guilty of finger pointing
    We all are able to stop the social carnage

    • LiarLiar says:

      So when will you practice what you preach for once?

    • inna says:

      So Famous, tell us what YOUR solutions are for Social Kumbaya? What peaceful solutions have YOU developed to achieve harmony and unity? From the articles that you continue to write, there doesnt seem to be much, if any, harmony nor unity! But hey, maybe that is just me?

  5. Hmmm says:

    Why use Equal Rights by Tosh? We have equal rights, Ok, non-Bermudians have less rights, so do you want non-Bermudians to have equal rights or are you saying that all that is left is peace?????? stange choice of tune to end with.

    • Mike Hind says:

      Welllll… not ALL of us have equal rights…

      • Hmmm says:

        Good point ! Perhaps Chris is using the Peter Tosh song to promote equal rights in terms of same sex marriage.

      • COUNTDOWN says:

        You can always go to Mass. to get married to the man you love Mike…

        • Mike Hind says:

          Not gay. Just an ally. Just someone who believes in fairness and in not having to be forced to follow the rules of someone else’s religion.

          But a nice try at an insult. Too bad I don’t take it as one.
          Unlike you, I don’t think being gay is a bad thing.

  6. Truth is killin' me... says:

    Everybody’s chasing the dollar Chris…even your party leader and his gambling shop…don’t you get it!? The green dollar is the leader…nothing else.

  7. Guy Carri says:

    Social Kumbaya – so CF are you saying we should all distribute our money and wealth so we have all equal assets and socially at the same standing?
    Or are you saying we just need to accept and not descriminate based on race, nationality, economics, class?
    You can start and pave the way to equality either way…

  8. watchfuleyes says:

    @hhh… You don’t honesty think that there is equal rights in Bermuda do you? You can’t really be that naive? There is no equal rights in the Courts,with the police,in schools,and the list goes on.
    If the Premier can run a gas station (?) why can’t the Opposition run a gambling shop? It’s not about chasing a dollar it is about being a business man, or is that title just for the members of the OBA? Famous is correct, this is not the Kumbaya time.
    I think that many people would want us to feel content, and satisfied with this ‘trickle down’ philosophy they are pushing and would like to see us all holding hands and singing Kumbaya, but like Chris is saying Not now! and I totally agree.
    The OBA need to work a lot harder for the average working(non working Bermudian) and stop selling off Bermuda bit by bit and displacing the of this Island.
    Stop lying to us, stop evading questions, stop covering up, stop hindering our progress by lack of genuine intent for our welfare, stop prolonging this recession by incompetence,and inexperience, stop putting so much red tape in front of people who are trying to get ahead, stop now and start listening to people who have valid suggestions, start assisting people who have ideas on how to take this island forward, start helping the poor, the elderly, the down trodden, the young black males,and the unemployed.Where are the jobs and where is the blueprint to get them? Oh I forgot the Premier can’t talk about that, he has a case in court pending. Yet he is about doing the business of the people, only the people don’t know yet what it is, the plan is a secret.
    @Gotham… what is preventing this govt from getting on with better schools and affordable housing just because people are having conversations? And the fact that after all these years we can’t determine who is a Bermudian and who isn’t is a sad state of affairs for us all. It does matter believe me.

  9. Terry says:

    Some years ago I did like Mr. Famouss and his outlook.
    I still like him but I don’t like his tactics especially being used by the PLP propaganda machine.
    He has become nothing more than an attack dog on every subject in the ‘media’, written, verbal and print.

    He would have made a great politician if not for the seeking of limelight and being used.
    Look at all the alias’s being used here, Bermuda Sun, Royal Gizzard.

    Best of luck mate. I told you so years ago.

    Shalom.

  10. somuchless says:

    Famous go do something good. All you’re out to do is cause trouble.

  11. Creme Brûlée says:

    Chris, the opening verse of Lennon’s song is revealing:

    Imagine there’s no Heaven,
    No Hell below us,
    A brotherhood of man

    I gather your platform like Lennon’s is that religion is the heart of all evil. I wholeheartedly agree with you both.

    • inna says:

      Hold on now! That sounds like too much sense for Famous to fathom, you better write something in laymans terms, and quick!

      • Creme Brûlée says:

        Actually, most days I don’t get it either…

  12. feel the love says:

    Again, why should anyone listen to this person? He is one angry man with clearly biased views. He wants kumbaya…start with the person you see in the mirror Mr. Famous.

  13. Bermuda Boy says:

    Like I said before, Who is this little pr&^* and why does he have so much say in what happens here. Go back to school and learn how to spell your own name Famous, Famouss, Famousss.

    • Oliver says:

      ah the rants of a boy. Don’t worry you’ll feel better when the other one finally drops.

  14. Terry says:

    It’s all by design.
    Even the OBA are doing it. Banning people from their website. Not letting them even view it.
    Now we have the likes of Vanze Chapman, Rhonda Neil and Dame LaVerne Shubert taking over the “Serious Talking Group.
    The devil is in the details and still in Martha’s yard.

  15. thief says:

    I am feeling sorry that you are consumed and it is ruining your life.

  16. more than enough says:

    politics in bermuda is more like a shutter
    effectively blocking out any input from the people, and the opposition
    we are sorted into classes initially by economics then race, in my opinion. nationality places you in a special class if you are not bermudian that is…and a not so special class if you are a poor bermudian, regardless of color.
    if you want peace, take peter tosh’s approach and legalize it and promote equal rights and justice for real.
    imagine that

  17. nuffin but the truth says:

    I have read some cr@p in my time,but are infamous for writing ut!

  18. Take it Easy! says:

    Hey Chris you have had a lot of Opinion column’s in the past few months what happen for the last 7 years!? Where did u come from all of a sudden? O ya the Plp told u shut your mouth and keep quiet! Its people like U that let the PLP do whatever they wanted and look where that got us! So my advice to u is continue 2 keep the OBA on their P’s and Q’s cuz thats only helping them out thanks!

  19. Justin says:

    Like the good ol’ saying says – “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”. The OBA is doing a fine job at getting this island off of life support and getting us healthy again. Why go back to the PLP who put this island on life support?

  20. Lauren Bell says:

    THE QUESTION:

    “The question that now remains is: how many of us truly do it, or want it?”

    THE ANSWER:

    The answer to this question is reflected in this list of responses triggered by this column…….we are a LONG way from any kumbaya.

    We can’t even start a conversation about how to get along without hate-filled rhetoric and disrespect taking center stage.

    • Hmmm says:

      Lauren please read the article again, he insults and insinuates.
      this was not a message to bring together , Chris’s message was intended to divide. He even offered up a number of categories for people to box themselves in whilst saying that the political parties are divided upon those demographics. This implies that you should vote by which box you put yourself in…UTTER NONSENSE.

      His article is aimed at slamming the OBA and gaining PLP votes simple as that. The guy is playing political chess.

      • JD says:

        Political chess is a bit above Chris’s pay grade. His role is nothing more than to serve as the mouth piece for the most reprehensible of PLP propaganda, whose only purpose is to divide the population along racial and economic lines for political gain.

        My hope is that as a society we can move beyond these divisions (instead of reinforcing them) and work together for a better Bermuda.

      • Johnny says:

        Hmmm, Chris didn’t make this up, if you look at the facts you will see that –
        1. Majority of people that vote for PLP are black, while the majority of white people vote for OBA.
        2. The majority of people of African decent vote for PLP, while the majority of people of European decent vote for OBA.
        3.the majority of people who have very little money (lower class) vote for the PLP, while the majority of people who have a lot of money (upper class) vote for OBA.

        These are facts and the trend is there to see. There will always be division because you have 2 distinct groups that do not have each others interests at heart.

        One group doesnt care if foreigners have to pay over the odds as long as Bermudians are taken care of, while the other group doesn’t care if Bermudians have to pay over the odds as long as the foreigners and their money are taken care of.

        • ganja mon says:

          You cant believe that crap you just said! If all blacks voted for the PLP, there would be no chance of the OBA ever winning an election!

          There are plenty of black Bermudians smart enough to see what the plp are trying to do to stir race relations in order to garner votes. Its only the ID10Ts like you that lap this crap up every year…

        • Mike Hind says:

          Conflating two different things and ignoring all other factors is not logic and it’s not evidence. It’s simply political spin… And one that has been debunked many, many times before.

  21. Navin Johnson says:

    Make that boring and predictable. Start with music lyrics then PLP praise and OBA bashing. Long on words short on content and same old same old Mr Famous has run his course finish with more lyrics

  22. Chris Notorious says:

    Mr Famous, you should be glad, as I am, that you live at a time where you can openly criticize the ruling Government. This was not the case a few years ago when everyone who disagreed with the PLP was labelled as racist – sometimes in a very public way. Live were ruined as a result. It was as close to being a dictatorship as we’ve ever been.

    So keep on writing Sir, I won’t always agree with you, but I’ll agree with your right to express your opinion.

    We can only hope that the PLP never regains power and turns this on its head.

  23. watchfuleyes says:

    @Justin… please tell me how many jobs this government has created in comparison to the jobs lost. Almost weekly we hear about people losing their jobs, although it’s not done publicly it’s all being done quietly. Could it be because this government wants to give the impression that everything is fine. This island is far from getting off life support, it’s far from healthy with more people needing help from financial assistance than ever before, with more people losing their homes, with more people living with family in cramped quarters, with more families stressed, strained and despondent, with more Bermudians looking for jobs overseas, and moving off the Island. Chris is only the messenger but the message is valid. Most comments here do not address his message but rather attack him. That is why we are not ready for that Kumbaya moment here in Bermuda. Sometimes honesty is an ugly truth.

    • Justin says:

      I could write you a 10 page essay on why Bermuda is a better off now with the OBA compared to the PLP, but to answer your question, in short, jobs are a lagging indicator of an economic recovery. I’d like to draw your attention to the fact that two hotel properties have been purchased under the OBA, no companies have redomiciled from Bermuda under the OBA, new company registrations are up, the real estate market is ticking up, etc..

      These all do not immediately produce jobs, but it is showing that money is being spent in Bermuda. Soon we will see the ‘trickle down effect’ which will produce jobs. Under the PLP we were in a tail spin. The OBA appears to have regained control and is starting to steer us to recovery.

  24. Alvin Williams says:

    As long as the OBA as did their political predecessors the now defunct UBP
    can depend on what amounts to a political herd mentality; than there is going to be no question of Bermuda seeing a circumstance where we will see the rise of a political consensus or social unity.
    It is clear that this government and it’s political supporters are attempting to create a Bermuda without the Bermudian. All it’s policies point in that direction.
    No matter how many statements are made by this premier that they are acting in Bermudian interests. We have no other choice but to resist. Bermuda will not become another Cayman Islands where the indigenous population finds itself out number by people brought in. That right I claim indigenous status for Bermudians just like you can’t tell an American; a Canadian or Australian that the lands they were born in does not belong to them. Bermuda is long over due for it’s own Boston Tea party.

    • Justin says:

      Aren’t you a statistician? Bermuda doesn’t have enough talent within our population to fill all the jobs right now. Since we have a massive debt to pay off, we need to GROW the economy which means, you guessed it, create more jobs. With a stagnant birth rate that will mean we will have to import more labor. Pretty basic stuff, mate.

      Bermudians already have an advantage because they get first dibs at every job because they are Bermudian. What more do you want?!

      • Eye of Horus says:

        “Bermuda doesn’t have enough talent within our population to fill all the jobs right now.”

        The majority of the work permits issued at the moment are for jobs that take minimum skills. Many of the permit holders that gained work permits for these jobs arrived unskilled in these minimum skilled positions & learned on the job. Shadow Minister Burt suggested amendments to the one size fits all work permits which made lots of sense & would fix this problem but it’s yet another dismissed.

        For the Bermudians who plan to achieve more than a minimum skilled job & go to study to reach their aspirations they will have little to no chance to move up the IB ladder thanks to the The Bermuda Immigration and Protection Amendment (No. 2) Act 2013.

        “With a stagnant birth rate that will mean we will have to import more labor.”

        This is just a ridiculous assumption made by government because of a population drop. In the report where this comes from it says, “This is largely due to net emigration [i.e. emigration exceeding immigration] and slowing natural population growth as a result of a declining birth rate.” but when you read deeper into the report you see that the decline is because Bermudian females are waiting to get established before having children where as before they were having children without future planning. This does not mean they won’t have children in the future which the government assumes by projecting (I.E. guessing, estimating, predicting) Most of the decline was due to people moving away from Bermuda but even with that mass exodus Bermuda is still in the top ten of highest population density even surpassing Bangladesh. The projection is scare mongering to push an agenda.

        “Bermudians already have an advantage because they get first dibs at every job because they are Bermudian. What more do you want?!”

        Not true since OBA passed Incentives for Job Makers Act & The Bermuda Immigration and Protection Amendment (No. 2) Act 2013. Now with this new act & amendment a company’s senior executives can obtain exemptions from work permit requirements plus an exempted company that is new to Bermuda can receive up to five work permits for overseas recruits for senior positions without the need to advertise first.

        • Justin says:

          “The majority of the work permits issued at the moment are for jobs that take minimum skills. Many of the permit holders that gained work permits for these jobs arrived unskilled in these minimum skilled positions & learned on the job. Shadow Minister Burt suggested amendments to the one size fits all work permits which made lots of sense & would fix this problem but it’s yet another dismissed.”

          I like it, now you are getting to the heart of the issue. Why are these foreign workers are still here despite the lousy economy and Bermudian workers have been made redundant? In order for a business to get foreign labour they need to pay for a permit, find housing for them and go through a whole lot of paperwork. If a Bermudian could fill the position, if I was an employer, I would take the Bermudian because it is easier and cheaper to do so. My guess is that employers choose to go through the work permit process because a) there isn’t a Bermudian who can do the job or 2) because they cannot find a productive Bermudian to do the job. A good example is government workers who take much longer to build a wall (i.e. Paget stop lights) than a private contractor. In the private sector laziness isn’t sustainable.

          “For the Bermudians who plan to achieve more than a minimum skilled job & go to study to reach their aspirations they will have little to no chance to move up the IB ladder thanks to the The Bermuda Immigration and Protection Amendment (No. 2) Act 2013.”

          Wrong, you are so wrong on this one. If you are a qualified, hard working Bermudian with decent soft-skills you will have no trouble finding a position within the IB world even in today’s economy. I promise you that.

          “This is just a ridiculous assumption made by government because of a population drop. In the report where this comes from it says, “This is largely due to net emigration [i.e. emigration exceeding immigration] and slowing natural population growth as a result of a declining birth rate.” but when you read deeper into the report you see that the decline is because Bermudian females are waiting to get established before having children where as before they were having children without future planning. This does not mean they won’t have children in the future which the government assumes by projecting (I.E. guessing, estimating, predicting) Most of the decline was due to people moving away from Bermuda but even with that mass exodus Bermuda is still in the top ten of highest population density even surpassing Bangladesh. The projection is scare mongering to push an agenda.”

          I suppose we will have to agree to disagree on this point. Can you provide a link to the report so that I can read it myself? Even so, for example, it has been proven that Bermuda’s birth rate cannot support the amount of actuaries needed in Bermuda. Therefore, we will always need to import foreign actuaries.

          “Not true since OBA passed Incentives for Job Makers Act & The Bermuda Immigration and Protection Amendment (No. 2) Act 2013. Now with this new act & amendment a company’s senior executives can obtain exemptions from work permit requirements plus an exempted company that is new to Bermuda can receive up to five work permits for overseas recruits for senior positions without the need to advertise first.”

          I wasn’t aware of this, but it does seem very efficient. Remember, we are trying to GROW the economy so if this makes it easier for an IB to set-up then I am all for it. At the end of the day it creates jobs for Bermudians and usually the people in those positions are non-Bermudian anyway so why should they go through the process anyway? Inevitably these people will need support staff and junior staff to train up and as the company grows they will employ more people.

          • Eye of Horus says:

            If an employer brings in a worker on a three year permit & pays that worker 2 dollars less than they’d pay a Bermudian they save the work permit fee within a year & then some. There are landlords who only rent to certain company’s expat workers at a price cheaper than what’s on the market & the workers pay not the employer. Paper work is a part of any business regardless if there a permits involved. The employer saves on hiring a foreign employee & the foreign employee gains with the exchange rate of our dollar. This is the reason so many foreign blue collar workers are hired not because of your prejudice fallacy of the “lazy Bermudian” All the while employees gain from this the unfixed minimum wage keeps dropping & financial assistance gets higher on the tax payer’s dollar & detriment to society.

        • Bermewjan says:

          Well, this is a load of bo**cks. Why would any company want to hire a qualified capable Bermudian who might “steal” business away to another Bermuda based firm, when they can bring in an indentured servant on a work permit who when they’re done with them they can just kick them off the island.

          I have worked for many years abroad at very senior levels, and know for a fact that experience and capability is what counts in the international market place. Here in Bermuda where firms have the privilege of hiring their very own indentured servants on work permits means that they gain something that is not available in the wider international marketplace – security and protection from competition. In truth Bermudians who have the right to compete are not wanted, because they have more rights than a work permit holder… and an easy way of limiting their access to the roles is to over qualify the roles.

    • jt says:

      Well Mr. Williams, if the OBA have a herd mentality, the PLP have a slice mentality….I’ll leave you to it.

    • Bermewjan says:

      There are no indigenous Bermudians. We are all originally from somewhere else. Before 1600 the island was only populated by wild hogs, skinks, cahows and the like… unless by indigenous you are referring to them. “Give Cahows the vote” may be your next statement if so.

      May I suggest you wake up and smell the bu***hit you’ve been sold if you think anyone gourp of Bermudians has any more rights than any other Bermudians… “indigenous”, SMH!

      • el says:

        because certain people don’t recognize color doesn’t mean it don’t exist,. the history was written by slave masters who were determined to make themselves look “great” in their eyes . you’d be surprised at the true history of this beautiful island that yes belongs to me!Not all of us came from somewhere else , some of us were just convinced of that.

  25. Alvin Williams says:

    Well that might have been true some time ago; but tell me why thousands of my fellow Bermudians can not found jobs and that is not just on the lower scale but trained Bermudians just out of top colleges and universities?
    I want the same thing that is reality in other countries; I don’t want lip service by this government and it’s premier. I am on the ground I hear the stories of my fellow countrymen whose natural aspirations in their own country are being violated.

    • jt says:

      So this has just started, or you saw nothing since 1998? Hard to accept your citiques as genuine since they are so selective. (same for Mr. Famous)

      • Mike Hind says:

        Hard to accept the as genuine when he keeps posting horrific and outright lies like “…the near lynching of… Zane Desilva and his family…”

  26. Coffee says:

    Can we all just get along ; famous words by Rodney King after he was beaten within an inch of his life . Bermuda continues to be a lopsided country were one family can give away $100,000 which represents an annual combined salary for a huge percentage of local families . Things like this will always be an ignored reality for the supporters of the OBA/UBP .

    • Mike Hind says:

      Funny how you bring up the problem, but not a solution…

      • Lauren Bell says:

        First there has to be a recognition of the problem before moving onto solutions.

        Many on this thread appear to be very comfortable assigning disparaging characteristics to fellow Bdian brothers & sisters based SOLELY on political allegiances.

        What Famous is speaking of transcends politics and it is about the BASIC level of respect needed for “social kumbaya”. It is about really getting to the core of why we are such a divided people.

        • Mike Hind says:

          As usual, you’re completely incorrect. No surprises.

          • Lauren Bell says:

            What is “completely incorrect”?

            It is painfully apparent that, as a country, we are incapable of having a conversation without it quickly transcending into childish name-calling. We see it here, we hear it on our talk-shows, we witness it on the Hill.

            It is okay to have opposing viewpoints / ideas/ perspectives; in fact, it is HEALTHY. Without the freedom to speak our individual truths, we end up in a place where males all are sporting a supreme leader Kim Jong Un haircut!

            But there is a difference between healthy exchange of opposing viewpoints and this nonsense. We don’t have to agree but we have to show a basic level of respect in order to reach some semblance of “social kumbaya”.

            Your method of engagement doesn’t work.

            Stay focused on the issues.

            • Mike Hind says:

              No, YOU have shown, time and again, that you are incapable of having a conversation. You’ve shown an interest in ONLY pushing whatever bit of spin you’re pushing and absolutely no interest in a conversation.

              You speak of respect, but you’ve yet to show even the most basic level of respect in a conversation… Listening. You consistently refuse to address people’s points, ignore information or data that contradicts your point and, repeatedly, make stuff up to denounce anyone who opposes you.

    • LOL (original TM*) says:

      You just sound like a hater.

      LOL