Comments on: BEST Responds: Astwood Park Proposal

By: It only hurts when I breathe.....

It only hurts when I breathe..... — Sat, 15 Sep 2012 11:53:08 +0000

just to clarify BTW – I dont for a moment believe that we did jump the gun on this issue AND I agree with E Wells – i also think it was more advanced than they have let on and it was “full steam ahead” as E.W. puts it – the presence of digging equipment on site more than backs up this conjecture. SHAME ON THEM – not once did they consider us, the Bermudian owners and voters of this land.

By: ABM

ABM — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 19:49:41 +0000

Well what can I say, you do make it hard to argue against.

By: ABM

ABM — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 19:48:13 +0000

Reminds me of the boy who cried wolf!

By: Edmund Wells

Edmund Wells — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 19:37:00 +0000

ABM-

I think we’re getting a bit circular here.

You believe it was an undeveloped idea, based on some casual conversations with area residents, and that it never intended to be made public at this juncture.

I believe it was far more advanced, that there was a reason why earth-moving equipment was on site; that the level of specifics (4-6pm, one-year trial, &c.) suggest that the plan was full steam ahead. I believe it to be typical of this Government, behaving the same way it has in other situations- “we don’t need to consult anybody”, and that if BEST had not raised the issue, work would have already begun. And again, this is not, and should not be, a decision for area residents. It is, as Astwood Park is within the National Parks System, a decision for all of Bermuda.

I doubt either of us will convince the other.

By: It only hurts when I breathe.................

It only hurts when I breathe................. — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 19:21:34 +0000

@ ABM
Unfortunately govt. has only itself to blame if people (myself included) “jumped the gun” on this issue as you put it. Govt.’s TRACK RECORD (excuse the pun) does them a huge disservice and again, they only have themselves to blame. They have mainly and consistently done underhanded dealings, backdoor dealings, suspect dealings, any kind of dealings but khosher dealings!!! Therefore since their 14 year history is riddled with some form or another of deceit, (DREB’s own words!!),including financial and the friends and family plan, most folk have had a belly full and are not prepared to listen anymore! I for one do not wish to follow Sen. Fahy’s advice as I do not plan nor do I desire to be lied to my face, YET AGAIN, yet one more time. When is enough enough? Sadly, this may be the one time that they are not lying, but at this point, who in their right minds is willing to give them the benefit of a doubt? Not me that’s for sure!

By: ABM

ABM — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 18:35:59 +0000

Agreed. But, I beleive thats what Min. Weeks was saying, it is only a proposal and that the residents will be canvassed in the future before anything goes forward or any real plans are drawn up. I think BEST jumped the gun on this one outing gov’t the way they did, and it is reflected above in their press statement which they acknowledged. Key words I get from everything that is being said is that no real plans are in place and the area residents will be canvassed.

By: ABM

ABM — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 18:31:50 +0000

Go you covered. The reason I am cool with this whole situation is because these area residents it is so claimed, that came up with this idea are trying to get the youth off of that standard one way to hell road that all our youths seem to be on. My whole thing is that everyone is up in arms over this and pointing and blaming everyone else whe nthe fact remains that us as Bermudians are as the usual assuming a whole heap of things with this matter. We are too busy implementing our opinions as facts. I like the Senator Fahy approach, wait till you hear all of the facts before you fully express yourself concerning the situation.
One such case is where you said and I quote, “None of these steps have been taken, nor have these requirements been met in this situation. No public notice was given; it was only after BEST raised concerns that it became visible.” The only problem with that statement of yours is that this whole situation is still in its infancy stage and it is only a proposal. To me that means that no real plans are in place, just a rough draft so to speak. And I would not go to press with a rough draft. I think thats where BEST went wrong, they heard about it and jumped the gun based off of some ‘government spokesperson’ who was not named. That in itself is a little questionable because it could be someone who has the inside track but is probably not even a govt employee but just want to throw a rock in the machine, if you get my meaning. Of course what I just said is speculation, but it does make one wonder.

By: ABM

ABM — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 18:22:23 +0000

I follow and agree with you. What I was trying to say was that everyone is blamming government and pointing the finger at them for coming up with this hairbrain scheme when they should be questioning those area residents who came up with and want the idea implemented. The government is only doing what those few have asked and canvassed for. To what extent they went through to get government to go forward with it is unknown and another topic. But what is known is that your neighbors, be they near or far, want this ‘track’ so to speak put in place. Just how many of them are there is also unknown.
Also, to point out something you said concerning Bermuda’s land bank being too small. At some point in the future, as the population grows and overall living flurishes, this extra land will need to be used. Not saying that because of this we should build the track, no no, but that as our people grow, more and more land will need to be used in order to accomodate everyone. Yes, we can protect it for as long as we can, but reality is that the generation after us, and the one after that and so on will need that area and they may have a different view from both you and I.

By: john doe

john doe — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 18:12:21 +0000

what 4-8 yr old has idle hands, everything is a playground to them…

By: Edmund Wells

Edmund Wells — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 15:53:07 +0000

ABM-

It seems you believe that somehow, it makes a difference that “area residents are the ones who came up with the idea and approached government”.

Government has processes in place covering use of public lands, including allowing public hearings. Regulations exist for what can and can’t be done with parkland. Assessing the impact of an idea on traffic flow and the environment is a requirement for projects. Identifying existing alternatives, especially given current Government finances, is critically important now.

Astwood Park is not part of the Warwick Park System; it’s part of the Bermuda National Parks System. All of Bermuda has a right to understand and express their views about proposed changes in usage.

None of these steps have been taken, nor have these requirements been met in this situation. No public notice was given; it was only after BEST raised concerns that it became visible.

But you’re fine with that, since it was the area residents that came up with the idea. Government’s actions and inaction handling their idea have no bearing, and voters across the Island should not be concerned about it.

Got it.

By: It only hurts when I breathe.................

It only hurts when I breathe................. — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 15:31:57 +0000

to finsih this…………I am an AREA RESIDENT and I DO NOT WANT THIS in my area, I was never canvassed or asked. Again this land belongs TO ALL OF US, not just a few who live in the area. Bermuda’s land bank is too small for such subjective narrow minded thinking.

By: It only hurts when I breathe.................

It only hurts when I breathe................. — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 15:29:02 +0000

@ ABM – the “area residents” are not the SOLE OWNERS of this parkland, or any other parkland. IT BELONGS TO ALL BERMUDIANS and our visitors, not any one group.
BTW I am an AREA RESIDENT

By: Pastor Syl Hayward

Pastor Syl Hayward — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 15:28:14 +0000

@ Thoroughbred and ABM: Yes it is OUR land, and therefore should be available to all OUR people. Not all of us enjoy the sound of mini-bikes. In fact, there are quite a few of us that would like to get away from the sound of engines entirely. That is a pristine area of tranquillity in an increasingly noisy island. There are folks who go there to meditate or to practice Tai Chi or Qi Kong.

Just because an area doesn’t have a money making venture attached doesn’t mean it is under-utilized or wasted space.

If I want speed bumps in my neighbourhood, I have to canvas all my neighbours and get them to sign an agreement. This is for something that will benefit the safety of all of the children (including those who go to school in the area). Even more so then, don’t you think, those “area residents” who want to change the utilization of an area that has a particular designation, which normally would require some sort of planning permission, should have gotten buy-in from the other “area residents.” It is not just for Government to approve, there is a process that appears to have been circumvented.

By: It only hurts when I breathe.................

It only hurts when I breathe................. — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 15:27:01 +0000

@ Pastor Syl
EXACTLY!!! Right on and well said. Govt. circumventing its own laws (which they have done on TOO MANY occassions to mention and which not only involved land, but also huge financial transactions). This M.O. is an endemic problem with this govt. which has more than soured many of us on how they choose to operate. The other matter of course is the choice of land for this proposal. The idea may be worthy but the location is absolutely horrible and NOT the place to do it. Morgans Point would be good – it could even be something the tourist’s KIDDIES might enjoy watching and participating in when the new resort gets built there!!
AGAIN THANK YOU BEST. BERMUDA OWES YOU BIG TIME!!!

By: ABM

ABM — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 14:16:15 +0000

Exactly!! But you know what else…..everyone is up in arms over this issue with both PLP and BEST. The thing that no one is acknowledging is the fact that a few “AREA RESIDENTS” are the ones who came up with the idea and approached government in the first place.

By: ABM

ABM — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 14:13:28 +0000

There is an area at Astwood Park that is better suited, and tha tis the one that is proposed to be used. The Northern side of Park I beleive which is across the street. No one uses this area anyway so why not use it?

By: Thouroughbred

Thouroughbred — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 13:44:47 +0000

I really don’t know understand what the fuss is about.. Its a piece of land that is OURS and it will be utilized by OUR people, what is the problem… Who else should be able to utilize it, it is not a big deal, there are not many places for children to play if they are from condos also. As I listned to the Ministers Weeks and Bean they stressed it would be monitored by the residents for any disturbances which could be politely worked out like how we work out most of our neighbourhood issues… GAAAAAaaaaaawwwwwwwdddddd…..CHHEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeezzz its not effecting anyone right now, and it doesn’t appear harmful, these are our youngsters!!!!

By: Pastor Syl Hayward

Pastor Syl Hayward — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 13:29:49 +0000

@ Bermudian: My understanding of the term “youth” is young males aged 8 or 9 to age about 13.
The Government says that this is a program for 4-6 year olds. These are not “youths with idle hands.” These are young children in need of close supervision, especially if we are talking about motorized cycles, even if the motors run on electricity.

I really wish people would understand the difference between complaining for complaining’s sake, and justifiable concern. We should query a scheme that proposes to circumvent the established guidelines without due process. There is a way to change a land-use designation that all of us are expected to follow. When a Government tries to ride rough-shod over laws, rules, regulations, and/or accepted practices, it sets a very bad precedent for the rest of the country. If a Government scoffs at or ignores its own laws, we should not be surprised if the people follow suit.

This is the bigger picture/issue for me. Yes,the planned desecration of Astwood Park is a problem, but it is the systemic disrespect for the laws, protocols and procedures of the land that is of grave concern.

By: events bermuda

events bermuda — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 12:47:32 +0000

@CANBEANYWHERE – I agree with you. The idea itself is a good one as it provides another sorely needed activity for our youth, but Aswood Park is the wrong location. Is there a small plot of land on Morgan’s Point which could be used? I know that the future of that land is up in the air right now, but it makes sense to me that at least a small section of it could be spared for a bike track. Plus that way it would still be in the West End.

By: Um Um Like

Um Um Like — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 12:39:31 +0000

Hah! You’re complaining about Best complaining, yet you’re offering no solutions either!

By: trees

trees — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 12:34:57 +0000

Best doesn’t need to provide a solution, it is not their job! Their job is to protect open spaces!

There are other locations which could work for a minicross track, these places could be explored.

By: CANBEANYWHERE

CANBEANYWHERE — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 12:12:41 +0000

It’s about the fact that it is at Astwood park!! This is a nice green space of which we have few left. I am sure there is an area that would be better suited. Never mind the traffic congestion!
Great plan, wrong spot!

By: Bermudian

Bermudian — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 11:53:42 +0000

It upsets me that Best is complaining so much about a program that government is planning to do to help with youths/idle hands, which I think is positive, but offer no solutions of their own. But I get it Bermuudians love love love to complain about stuff but offer no solution to help a problem. Idle youths is a big problem and will be in the future, BEST get with program.