Comments on: PLP Throne Speech Reply: Cannabis Reform

By: Real Time

Real Time — Fri, 22 Nov 2013 04:47:12 +0000

How will the regulate the sale of cannabis. As a Bermudian entrepreneur living in Europe I would love to open coffeeshops like they have in Holland or even dispensaries for safe sale of cannabis.

By: Sara

Sara — Mon, 18 Nov 2013 15:23:37 +0000

Sorry to say Sandy, despite all of your weak arguments against marijuana, it will soon be legal in many other US states for medicinal and recreational use. Soon it will be legal in Jamaica, Mexico, Canada, and god knows where else because the truth is out there and the money is low. Sandy, the war on cannabis is finally over and its prohibition is coming to an end. Bermuda will surely lag behind and drag her feet like she always does, but eventually she will have to follow suit. Good luck with your fight, you will need it:)

By: Sara

Sara — Mon, 18 Nov 2013 15:22:54 +0000

If your logic is correct, then why is ricin legal?

By: Edmund Wells

Edmund Wells — Sun, 17 Nov 2013 20:58:21 +0000

“I’m sure smoking on the front lawn of parliament would be counterproductive to the cause, or it might open some eyes, don’t know but I have more respect for others than that. As far as being caught, I’m not paying the fine so what will they do with me? The above mentioned people also fought for far greater causes such as abolition of slavery and being conscripted into wars they did not want to fight so it’s understandable the aggressive approach they took. Being able to use marijuana is far less of and issue to me but still one that needs to be addressed. Prohibition of marijuana serves no purpose to our people, it’s all about choice, some will some won’t, just like alcohol and cigarettes. One more thing, people are suffering the consciences of breaking the law they feel is unjust, by not being able to further their education, that the whole reason this is coming up.”

Come Correct and Sandy Bottom-

Fair enough, but then don’t cloak your choosing to ignore the law as civil disobedience- it isn’t. It’s willingly breaking existing law because you want to- nothing noble about it.

Again, all of your arguments are very valid reasons to changes the law, but not to ignore it.

By: Sandy Bottom

Sandy Bottom — Sun, 17 Nov 2013 18:59:16 +0000

I agree. And in this case we’re not exactly talking about Ghandi and MLK. We’re talking about people who want another way to get their jollies. .

By: Come Correct

Come Correct — Sun, 17 Nov 2013 18:46:32 +0000

I’m sure smoking on the front lawn of parliament would be counterproductive to the cause, or it might open some eyes, don’t know but I have more respect for others than that. As far as being caught, I’m not paying the fine so what will they do with me? The above mentioned people also fought for far greater causes such as abolition of slavery and being conscripted into wars they did not want to fight so it’s understandable the aggressive approach they took. Being able to use marijuana is far less of and issue to me but still one that needs to be addressed. Prohibition of marijuana serves no purpose to our people, it’s all about choice, some will some won’t, just like alcohol and cigarettes. One more thing, people are suffering the consciences of breaking the law they feel is unjust, by not being able to further their education, that the whole reason this is coming up.

By: More with less

More with less — Sun, 17 Nov 2013 18:26:45 +0000

By: Edmund Wells

Edmund Wells — Sun, 17 Nov 2013 16:13:34 +0000

“From Socrates through Thoreau, Gandhi, and King, the great theorists and practitioners of this form of resistance to law have told us in words and actions that civil disobedience requires the disobedient citizen to suffer the legal consequences of his or her unlawful act. In Socrates’s case, the consequence was death at the hands of the Athenian authorities. For Thoreau, Ghandi, and King, the consequence was jail. Through their suffering and example, they sought to undermine the moral position of law they found objectionable. Because unless the disobedient citizen takes the legal consequences of his unlawful action – he’s nothing but a criminal or a rebel.”

Joel Brenner

Come Correct-

With respect, your arguments support changing the law, not disobeying it.

To move the conversation to the realm of civil disobedience, the question becomes (as in one of the quotes you cited), are you willing to accept the consequences of breaking a law you believe to be unjust? Are you willing to smoke ganga on the front lawn of Parliament, and be arrested, and go to jail?

Dr. Martin Luther King did not sneak into luncheonettes to change unjust laws. Gandhi did not sneak around India complaining about British occupation. Both were willing to accept the consequences of challenging laws they saw as unjust. I’m not seeing that part of the equation in these (not just yours) comments.

Or is your civil disobedience limited to sneaking around to purchase and smoke it, and hope no one finds you? If so, that is not civil disobedience. It is selfishness trying to seem like civil disobedience.

By: Come Correct

Come Correct — Sun, 17 Nov 2013 14:24:03 +0000

Right now yes, because there is no legal process to be able to supply legally. I have no issue with nailing dealers other than the fact you restrict my personal supply. There is nobody to regulate them, no quality control. Right now everything is based on trust of your supplier. IMO there should be a legal process for this. Countless job could be created, additional revenue streams for government in order to subsidize for more important things for all like education and food costs. My point was that not every bit of weed sold goes to funding gangs and murders. I have people I trust, I would never buy randomly off the street because I could be that next victim. If the government legislated control over this there would be far less victims. Young people would have a harder time getting their hands on it, you would greatly reduce the gangs revenue and be able to put more into the police. Prohibition does not work, it only creates a black market for criminals to gain higher profits. As for harder drugs I’m not sure where to go with that. Other countries have legalized them giving a clean drug, clean environment and clean paraphernalia with some positive results and the aim to get the addict off the substance. I simply chooses not to use them because the damaging effects far outweigh that of marijuana. Of course smoking anything is bad for you but marijuana will not rot the cartilage out of your nose, it won’t make you violently sick if you don’t get any. If you drink too much alcohol your body rejects it (loss of consciousness, throwing up) because it is literally a poison. If you smoke too much weed, you’ll have the best night sleep ever, your body won’t reject it.

By: Come Correct

Come Correct — Sun, 17 Nov 2013 14:02:04 +0000

Each of us do, through morality. Speeding is illegal because not only can you kill yourself (personal choice) you could affect someone else’s life negatively. Murder is illegal and rightly so because affects the victim negatively and not self. If you remove another person’s choice through your actions that is morally wrong. Morality is thinking about all and not just about self. Criminalizing people for their choice to use a plant is unjust. It is perfectly legal for me to buy bleach and drink it, perfectly legal for me to by muriatic acid and douse myself and perfectly legal for me to buy fuel and set myself on fire. Who is this law protecting? If I respect others and use at home who am I hurting, who’s choice am I removing? It does however remove my freedom of choice. The reason for this form of civil disobedience is because there is no streamline process of change in a democratic society. 70+ years of demonizing and criminalizing people for personal choice and we’re just starting to talk about talking about this. There is no moral defense to removing a persons FREEDOM of choice as long as their choice does not negatively impact others. If not you may as well jail people for life for making death threats in anger before they actually do it, whether they would have or not.

By: Sandy Bottom

Sandy Bottom — Sun, 17 Nov 2013 13:25:15 +0000

But they are all criminals.

By: Sandy Bottom

Sandy Bottom — Sun, 17 Nov 2013 13:24:16 +0000

So, like I said above, who decides when a law is “unjust”?

It’s just not reasonable to have anyone break any laws they feel are “unjust”.

If you don’t agree with laws, work through the democratic process to change them. Until that point, there is no moral defense to breaking laws in a democratic society.

By: blazer

blazer — Sun, 17 Nov 2013 12:25:58 +0000

My best friend died from AIDS and the first thing her Dr. told her (before she passed)partner was to get some “weed” to build up her appetite. I know some one who smoked it for their asthma, most people have tried it even in college 50+ years ago. They may say “I never inhaled it”. Who smokes but doesn’t inhale one of the best plants that God created. If some of you haven’t watched documentaries on the subject, then do so. Because you’d be surprised who tokes.

By: Come Correct

Come Correct — Sat, 16 Nov 2013 23:05:22 +0000

If we relied on self thinking instead of learning from everything and everyone we would still be cutting our hair with rocks. I dont live by these quotes they just make sense to me. Here’s a better one from the last guy.

Unjust laws exist; shall we be content to obey them, or shall we endeavor to amend them, and obey them until we have succeeded, or shall we transgress them at once? Men generally, under such a government as this, think that they ought to wait until they have persuaded the majority to alter them. They think that, if they should resist, the remedy would be worse than the evil. But it is the fault of the government itself that the remedy is worse than the evil. It makes it worse. Why is it not more apt to anticipate and provide for reform? Why does it not cherish its wise minority? Why does it cry and resist before it is hurt? Why does it not encourage its citizens to be on the alert to point out its faults, and do better than it would have them?

By: Sandy Bottom

Sandy Bottom — Sat, 16 Nov 2013 22:20:57 +0000

So who decides when laws are “unjust” and can simply be ignored?

According to these quotes the individual can overlay his own morality on any laws he likes. Oh great. So if he thinks it’s “unjust” to obey speed limits, pay taxes, get a driving licence, he can just ignore those laws. And that’s morally ok with you. He can steal, embezzle, and of course possess any substance he likes. Presumably he can also own guns, bombs and explosives, if he feels the laws prohibiting possession and ownership are “unjust”.

Interesting.

By: Ringmaster

Ringmaster — Sat, 16 Nov 2013 21:33:55 +0000

I believe Sandy Bottom is using ridiculous examples to show the fallacy in the 2 quotes posted by Come Correct. Why call it “reefer madness”? It seems that there is a consensus to oppose what one sees as an unjust law(s), but until it/they is/are changed one has to abide by it/them.

The quotes are illogical. Believing in them and holding them up as some form of “proof” shows a person has no self thinking to disagree.

By: Come Correct

Come Correct — Sat, 16 Nov 2013 20:19:44 +0000

The leaves? So you don’t actually know anything about it. I’d love to grow trees with you, you can have all the leaves you want.

By: Tolerate

Tolerate — Sat, 16 Nov 2013 19:50:49 +0000

Hahaha…. Legalize it and all your troubles go away? Gangster put down their guns and become Farmers? Can OBA take credit to the count of 2,000 jobs created? What IB have to say? Wait we don’t care. I remember the last group that said that. Kinda why we are where we are. Help tourism? I think half you who bought that up are high. Maybe ease some minds on getting caught with personal use but are you saying Bermuda with it’s reputation should evolve as a place to vacation and get charged? Sure all the families out there are thinking “hey, where can we take the kids on vacation? Look we can get charged in Bermuda, lets go?”
Laws must change to stop prosecuting and ruining opportunities for the ones that have been caught with small amounts I agree completely. But as the saying goes,” give them an inch they take a mile”. As many on here have been comparing alcohol and cigarettes not being good for you; yes weed is not good for you as well. I don’t want to hear about reports for its uses. Yes it has “uses”. A lot of drugs have uses but do you take them every day to the point of you not being able to function? Yes the potheads smoke every day like the alcoholics and cigarette smokers. Look at the zombies walking around this Island now and that’s with laws in place. And by the way; it will not reduce crime. While I can say most ganja smokers and I use the word MOST lightly; tend to be mellow cool dudes, no ones going to give it to you for free. So if people are robbing you now to get money for weed, I guess once it’s legal they would not? Wait I forgot; no weed smokers rob people.
And as I mentioned in my second sentence; the gangsters are too lazy to farm so they just work a move around it to cash in and run it.

By: Come Correct

Come Correct — Sat, 16 Nov 2013 19:15:13 +0000

Yes it’s a pretty weak argument but no matter how many times people explain to you that marijuana is not as bad as ingesting poison or that all the other drugs you bring up have chemical additives you continue to hold on to this and bring it up every time. Marijuana is not toxic to humans and has not chemical additives to give you a high…get it now?

By: Keepin' it Real...4Real!

Keepin' it Real...4Real! — Sat, 16 Nov 2013 19:11:40 +0000

this just might be of interest to you … https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwc9pBSsr7k

By: Come Correct

Come Correct — Sat, 16 Nov 2013 19:10:13 +0000

Not everyone who sells weed is in a gang. Not everyone who imports is leader/part of/in a gang.

By: Come Correct

Come Correct — Sat, 16 Nov 2013 19:05:49 +0000

Read your first sentence.

By: Come Correct

Come Correct — Sat, 16 Nov 2013 19:05:06 +0000

Those are quotes, read more about them and you will see the example you gave is the exact opposite of what they are trying to say.

By: sage

sage — Sat, 16 Nov 2013 19:04:35 +0000

People run up and down East Broadway (equivalent to at least a pack a day)supposedly for health benefits,no one cares.I bet every one of the “smoke is bad” camp is connected to Belco, increasing the smokestacks output,and drive/ride around in/on their carcinogen spewing vehicles while giving herb smokers,including Rastafarians and sick individuals the judgmental stink eye.Check yourselves.

By: Hmmmm

Hmmmm — Sat, 16 Nov 2013 18:40:11 +0000

Ultimately if you buy weed, you effectively contributed to killing someone. Murderer !

That’s the reality.

By: Hmmmm

Hmmmm — Sat, 16 Nov 2013 18:37:42 +0000

Quotes like this are wit, twee expressions laced with humour to amuse or in a vain attempt to sound clever. I bet none followed up on the persons who said that when locked up in a hell hole if they ever actually went to a hell hole… Sure much of their bravado was cheap and shallow like them. No cares for the hurt or victims who have to suffer the pain over a lifetime.

By: Keepin' it Real...4Real!

Keepin' it Real...4Real! — Sat, 16 Nov 2013 18:35:58 +0000

We’re not talking about “a plant”…we’re talking about a “Specific Plant”…come on man ..are you even with us on this subject or are you just a bored idiotic argumentative sleeper..?

By: sage

sage — Sat, 16 Nov 2013 18:18:57 +0000

Wrong, its not a choice but a responsibility to actively oppose unjust laws even by civil disobedience when necessary otherwise there would be no change.Some of us prefer to be leaders rather than followers, not asking people to do what we say but rather learn from our example.I really hope you aren’t comparing destruction of private property,arson and rape to the smoking, possessing or growing of a non-poisonous plant, but looking at some of the other ganjaphobic venom from other fools i am not surprised just disappointed that this type of reefer madness thinking still exists.

By: Keepin' it Real...4Real!

Keepin' it Real...4Real! — Sat, 16 Nov 2013 18:18:38 +0000

I’d really love to know what YOU, who Disliked, this Educational Moment,found it to be,so worthy of a Dislike..?

By: Keepin' it Real...4Real!

Keepin' it Real...4Real! — Sat, 16 Nov 2013 18:06:48 +0000

You need to come up off the bottom Sandy…i see you didn’t watch the Educational Material that i posted on Laverns’ comment…you know , the very first comment…at the Top…where everyone started reading…you follow me ?

By: Reas0n

Reas0n — Sat, 16 Nov 2013 17:21:32 +0000

You surely are not the real Sandy Bottom because I’m losing a bit of respect for you based on these comments

By: Reas0n

Reas0n — Sat, 16 Nov 2013 17:20:25 +0000

There really is no process at all. You can pick the bud straight off the plant and smoke it. Drying it is not really an unnatural process.

By: Reas0n

Reas0n — Sat, 16 Nov 2013 17:17:45 +0000

Who are you talking to

By: Wiseman

Wiseman — Sat, 16 Nov 2013 16:59:20 +0000

Yes LaVerne. It is the most important thing for the PLP because it significantly reduces the risk for pot smoking politicians.

By: Squall

Squall — Sat, 16 Nov 2013 16:47:17 +0000

Yes of course, the topic here was more about the health concerns.

By: Squall

Squall — Sat, 16 Nov 2013 16:11:48 +0000

If you would like to debate, please don’t give up and resort to calling people names.

By: Squall

Squall — Sat, 16 Nov 2013 16:09:49 +0000

In the mean time, should people just buy it from drug gangs, not thinking of what impact that is having

By: Squall

Squall — Sat, 16 Nov 2013 16:03:07 +0000

I am just trying to get people to think about where their money goes when they buy illegal drugs.

By: Sandy Bottom

Sandy Bottom — Sat, 16 Nov 2013 16:00:33 +0000

I disagree with both those comments.

Would it be ok with you if I came over, smashed up your car, burned your house down and raped your wife, all on the basis that I’m quite prepared to accept the sentence if I’m caught? Would that be morally defensible?

No, I didn’t think so.

The only moral way, in a country that has the rule of law, is to democratically change laws if you don’t agree with them. Until that point you have to follow them.

By: Squall

Squall — Sat, 16 Nov 2013 15:40:21 +0000

Yes it is, that is what I said was it not?

By: Sandy Bottom

Sandy Bottom — Sat, 16 Nov 2013 14:40:22 +0000

Apples to apples my dear. The stupid argument is that marijuana “must be good for you because it’s natural”. Obviously, that is complete rubbish. There are lots of completely natural plants that are harmful if consumed, as I’ve proved with the castor example.

By: Sandy Bottom

Sandy Bottom — Sat, 16 Nov 2013 14:37:35 +0000

There’s no process at all? You just pick the leaves, roll them up, and set fire to them? Yeah, I’d actually quite like to see that.

By: Sandy Bottom

Sandy Bottom — Sat, 16 Nov 2013 14:35:45 +0000

Ah, but making brownies means it’s not natural. The dumbass above is telling us that marijuana is better and safer than, say, crack cocaine, because it can be smoked in its natural form ( which it can’t) which he thinks has no adverse impact on health.

By: Come Correct

Come Correct — Sat, 16 Nov 2013 13:05:47 +0000

“I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.” – Robert A. Heinlein
“An individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust and who willingly accepts the penalty of imprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for the law. … Under a government which imprisons unjustly, the true place for a just man is… a prison.” – Henry David Thoreau

By: Sara

Sara — Sat, 16 Nov 2013 12:57:27 +0000

Perfect example of why it should be legal.

By: Sara

Sara — Sat, 16 Nov 2013 12:56:07 +0000

Marijuana is not poisonous like ricin. Apples to oranges dear.

By: Sara

Sara — Sat, 16 Nov 2013 12:54:17 +0000

Too many powerful people financially benefitting from illegal drug trade perhaps? Just a thought…

By: Come Correct

Come Correct — Sat, 16 Nov 2013 12:25:11 +0000

Prohibition is fueling the gangs buddy, think outside of the box…or look at history.

By: Squall

Squall — Sat, 16 Nov 2013 12:19:37 +0000

During prohibition the money would have went to organized crime. My point is not where the money will go if it is legalized. My point is right now the money is going to organized crime.

By: Felix

Felix — Sat, 16 Nov 2013 11:48:56 +0000

There is no need to smoke it to get the effect! Brownies come to mind, yum yum.