Coalition Expresses Shock At Court Verdict
The Coalition for the Protection of Children have expressed shock at the recent court case involving allegations of child abuse against a 7 year old boy.
A Coalition spokesperson said, “The CPC is shocked by the decision of the Senior Magistrate to acquit the mother of a 7 year old boy on charges of child abuse. Even more worrying is the decision by the Magistrate to dismiss the same charges against the boy’s stepfather.
“Having seen the highly disturbing photographs that provide physical evidence of the brutal attack on this child and having read the statements that the young boy made describing the beating by both individuals [not to mention the reports of testimony by the boy’s cousin and the Department of Child and Family Services] it is beyond our comprehension how the Magistrate could come to the conclusion that there was no case to answer in respect of the stepfather and a not guilty finding in the case of the mother.
“The most shocking element of this decision [apart from the fact that the Magistrate clearly dismissed the child’s testimony] is his assertion when he rendered his verdict that “I am not satisfied that the force used was unreasonable.”
“How could anyone looking at the photographs in question come to the conclusion that the force used in the belting of this young boy did not constitute abuse? Even the photographs taken a month after the incident clearly show pronounced and sustained welts to the boy’s legs. The question must be asked “If this is not abuse, then what is.”
“In the recent ruling by the Chief Justice, Kawaley underscored the importance of the victim’s voice in cases of child abuse. Clearly, the voice of the young boy was all but ignored and on that basis and in the face of compelling physical evidence we believed this case must appealed to the Supreme Court.”
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One of the biggest problemes with this society is that it condones giving spankings or “licks” . ANY hand raised to a child is abuse!!!!
There is NO grey area on that.
Now before the Bible quoters chime in “spare the rode spoil the child” etc etc etc.. I certainly don’t think a truly loving God would suggest causing harm to another human being.
so we just let children run around and do whatever they feel like with no correction???
o you must be one of those time out people….riiiiiiiight hows that working for you??
Actually it’s work out great for me!
Never laid a hand on mine for 22 years and counting. Very proud to say my child is a very well rounded respectful young adult.
How are your kids? What must they be doing to deserve so much rage from you that you would physically harm them?
Actually the Bible is quite clear on the role of the parent to discipline children. Note I did not say abuse, but discipline. Similarly God disciplines His children. And no, “any hand raised to a child” is NOT abuse. Not raising your child in the fear and admonition of the Lord and not providing the necessary discipline to correct a child IS really the abuse. Parents have a responsibility to raise their children; all to often today parents fail to take responsibility for parenting and instead think it’s eveyone else’s job (i.e. teachers, government, etc.)
I should have been clear that my comments were intended to respond to WELL SAID’s post….I do not think this particular case was discipline, but rather indeed was abuse.
My point is people quote the bible using it as a base to say its ok to hit children. This case definitely about more than licks. But where is the line between a good hit and a bad hit? A hit is a hit. Yes?
My child has been raised not to fear god, but love and accept its love using the “rod” to guide, keep steady, and point the way. Not to come down on them and inflict pain.
Well, with all due respect, if the bible encourages parents to physically assault children like happened in this case, fc#k the bible. And fc#k any idiot that will use a book of fictitious fairy tales as an excuse to beat up little kids.
@Mad Dawg – no one has suggested the Bible encourages abuse of children. It is about discipline not abuse. As for this case, as I said, it does seem excessive and cross the line. However, I think we must reserve judement because there must be additional information that the judge knew about that we were not privy to in order to arrive at this serious conclusion.
@Well Said – no a hit is not a hit. And like all things in life there is indeed a ‘line’. That line must be learned from one generation to the next. If taught properly, then it works. If abuse occurs, then unfortunately that inappropriate teaching tends to repeat itself the next generation. So do not throw the baby out with the bathwater when it comes to discipline. As for fearing the Lord, that is not a ‘scared’ fear but rather a ‘respect’ for the Lord. The same way that we are taught to ‘fear’ fire for the properties it has…the power to provide life saving heat but also the power to devour if not handled properly.
There are people using the bible, a work of fiction, as an excuse for abusing children. Disgusting.
Yes man we know u don’t believe in god! No need to repeat yourself. We heard u the first time now Give it a rest!
No. I won’t ‘give it rest’ while idiots use the bible as a defence to beating up little kids. It’s appalling.
Christians have interpreted “spare the rod and spoil the child” to mean that violence against children is appropriate. They appear to ignore the context of “the rod” in Biblical times. A rod was a crook used by shepherds to steer sheep away from danger, they didn’t use it to beat the sheep.
Am not suggesting that anyone beats anyone with a rod…but seems pretty clear to me:
“Do not withhold correction from a child,
For if you beat him with a rod, he will not die.
You shall beat him with a rod,
And deliver his soul from hell.”
Proverbs 23:13-14
And yes shepherds absolutely used their staff to nudge the sheep in line…to correct them when they strayed. Again, just a nudge…but a nudge is phyical contact.
Pastor Syl- I am not sure what Christians you are referring to but I certainly don’t interpret that text to mean that VIOLENCE AGAINST CHILDREN is appropriate.
Discipline does not equal violence and discipline does not equal abuse.
This case was clearly abuse and I believe that the judge has erred.
As a side, your understanding of the use of the word “rod” is incomplete
Proverbs 13:24 (NASB)
He who withholds his rod hates his son, But he who loves him disciplines him diligently.
Proverbs 23:13 (NASB)
Do not hold back discipline from the child, Although you strike him with the rod, he will not die.
Rod in the texts above clearly indicate that it was a means of administering discipline to a child (not just sheep). It is not the only means of administering discipline but it is one and should be used in love and wisdom.
Religious nut!
I cant comment on the case I was not there but I do know as for my house I rule and I dont care if my children are gone 3×7,you up in here and being disrespectful I am god in here and you play by my rules but I am not as hard as my father was,when I came alomg it was I brought you in this world and I would take your sorry a$$ out if I have to and if we only had some real old fashion a## whooping we might not have agang problem or a gun promblem today.
I see little children throwing temper tantrums in public and whe the mummys tell little jim or sally not to do it they hit the parent and turn awy with a disgruntle face from thier parent.dont get me started they lock me up and throw away the key.I never had that problem with none of my kids because they know damn well that they would hear Jesus coming if they even think about it.
So that smy story and I am sticking to it but their is cases that are out there that the parents do need to be dealt with and I have a older son whose sperm donor abused him so bad at the age of two that when he ahd his rights to have him on weekends the child would sometimes come home with bruises and the sperm donor would make all sorts of stories to what happen and we tried to get the police involve and was nothing they can do because the bruises was not visible enough but one weekend the sperm donor went to far and to make a long story short we took pictures and had it brought before the courts and the judge decided to let the sperm donor continue his visitations.so I told the judge just hold on a minute we have the child outside the court door and all I am asking is for the court to let us bring this 2 yera old in the door and let him see his sperm donors face and if the child dont fuss the sperm donor can see the child for visitations,Judge told me no children under age can be in court.
well how many of you know me,I aint paying him a lick of sense I went out and brought the hild in the court and as soon as he saw the sperm donor he scrteam the place down,what is the point i am trying to make abuse runs deep and those affected by it can show it and tell it like no one else can,I said to the judge that day that this man will never come near my son as long as I have breathe in my body and my son is now 28 and you can guarantee it stands to this day.
so there is two sides to every story and the 7 year old might have gotten what he desreved and then the mother or the stepfather or both could have been guilty of the charges they faced but we were not there and if their guilty it will come back at them one day but if their not let them raise this boy with a level of disipline that going to keep him from becoming the next one on the srteet or in jail or in an early grave.
I have sons and daughters and only one went wayward into the gang culture and I went out there to get him and guess what he beat me like I was a total stranger and I had to as a father make up my mind what I was going to do and my chioce was to become the man my father was to me and I literally went out there and got him and did what I had to to make him realize I am god in his face and you going to do it my way if you come kicking and screaming but your ass aint staying out here and thankfully its been almost two years and his still under my wings and doing it the right way,my way.
I said all that not to toot no bodys horn but to say to fathers be a damn father no matter what it takes and mothers back up sometimes so they can be fathers and stop trying to do our part,I think the worst thing ever happen to this country is when the mans identity was destroyed and systematically the man had been ruined to a large degree in the home and in society and then the child protection come in like the are the savior of the world.give a true balance is all i am saying and stop trying to pound the pavement for reconition
sorry for the mis spelt words but as long as you get the point is all that matters.
@Duane P Santucci—toot, toot, toot..when you get of your podium try at least to read the entire article about this case…..the STEPFATHER beat the boy AND the Mother ..the biological father was not given the opportunity to discipline the child..
Duane, reading thiis, you are not fit to be a parent. Still, it all worked out fine for you. Only one of your kids joined a gang. What a successful outcome.
Evolution sometimes skips a generation and you’re proof
Ohhhh Sheila….. if more parents were more like this childs we wouldnt have so much rotten apples running around and locked up…i know i surrvived all mines and its made me the person i am today….licks are not abuse!!!
Sorry have to disagree, if you leave marks/welts a month after you gave a child licks that is abuse. Sorry i believe in licks but you shouldn’t be leaving marks on your child, bottom line.
I agree, and I’m a Christian – any correction that leaves marks is abuse…. And I don’t agree with “hitting thumping, banging, punching, slapping, beating, cussing etc” that I’ve seen parents do in public – and you try addressing the parents of it….
Time out works perfectly well if used consistently and correctly. Parents need to educate themselves on the correct way to discipline their children. It is the parents responsibility to teach their children and spanking teaches nothing. All it does is allow the parent to vent on their child. It may make the parent feel better temporarily but will always harm the child mentally and emotionally. And why would you do that to someone you are supposed to love??
Time out may have worked for you and your kid but it never worked for me. All kids are different. I have 5 nieces. 3 of them are trouble makers and the other 2 are like little mice. When the 2 quiet ones do something wrong all they need is a stern voice and they start balling their eyes out like its the end of the world. Now the 3 trouble makers on the other hand just decide to repeat what you say but only louder. Put them in time out and they find something fun to do like count how many ridges are in the wall. Now when they get a smack cross their behind, they quit it and you better believe they don’t ever do it again!!! But there are some kids out there that even after they get that first smack they will still try it again (I use to be that kid). Nothing wrong with raising a hand, There’s no need to use a belt though.
That’s not always true. Think of it this way, we have age of consent laws because most young people aren’t mentality mature for sexual relations. The age of consent here is 16. So why do parents who are physically bigger than their children think it’s okay to spank, hit and abuse their children? 2 year olds can’t mentally understand why they shouldn’t throw a tantrum in the middle of a store. 7 year olds aren’t mentally mature either to make good decisions.
What if you were late to work and your boss hit you in the ass with a belt? Wouldn’t that be weird and uncalled for? So why should if be allowed towards children who are only learning and don’t know it all yet? Physical discipline is not necessary and actually it gives kids the idea that hitting someone for doing something wrong is the correct thing to do. Which is why these little punks running around see no problem with beating up people. Spanking and hitting as a form of discipline is only for parents who have zero patience and zero parenting skills and unable to cope with raising children.
You teach kids to keep their hands to themselves but then you beat them with a belt. Why do some people not see that something is wrong with that? If adults can’t hit other adults, adult parents don’t need to be hitting their children. “Licks are not abuse”? How do you differentiate the two? How does a child know the difference? All they know is that mommy and daddy are angry with them and inflicting physical pain upon them because of it.
@ free: I agree with you. How do you teach a child to be non-violent by using violence? I have never understood it. A smack on the butt with a hand is one thing, and because you will feel it too, you won’t go overboard, but to use any instrument: belt, brush, broomstick, electrical cord, switch, etc., etc., is abusive.
I grew up with “licks” and it took me years to get out from under the psychological scars. In some ways, I still haven’t and I am in my sixties. It has often seemed to me that those who cite their own experience with corporal punishment and act as if they are doing alright, are just not very introspective, don’t recognize their dysfunctions, or don’t associate their dysfunctions with the abuse they suffered.
Exactly. I agree with you as well especially the last sentence, a lot of people don’t realize that. The reality is these people aren’t doing “alright”. They may not be physically scarred from the abuse but they are messed up in other ways and continuing the cycle of abuse.
Imagine being half the size of someone (and in the cases of some kids even less than half) who physically assaults you. It’s a terrible feeling to have to cower in anticipation of being hit. All these people shouldn’t have anything to say when the next fight is reported or the next murder because they are no better. Keep your hands to yourself-period.
That explains your opposition Pastor Syl. You were abused. Discipline is different from abuse. I’m sorry that happened to you.
You are right. You cannot bring a child up to be non-violent with violence!
Maybe the abuse is what made these rotten apples this way. Food for thought
While I do not condone the abuse of a child, spanking a child is still legal in Bermuda. I have not seen the pictures but I trust that any magistrate privy to this information is duly capable of looking at the pictures and making an informed decision.
Ms. Cooper, since the inception of your Coalition, you have put parents on a tight rope in believing that they cannot discipline their children, hence look at where we are now, with these young boys and the gang violence, most of whom were of elementary school aged when you coalition and drive came into effect.
Parents have lost control of their children, especially their boys. Parents now fear their own children.
I clearly remember at the onset of your drive, children saying to parents “you can’t hit me, I will call the police.” With that parents felt their hands were tied and relinquished their control of their children, to their own children’s demise. And where are you and your coalition now when these same young boys are killing each other, besides in the newspaper. We as a people DO NOT see you out on the front lines implementing any programs or strategies to assist with the surge of violence that we as a people are experiencing.
Yes I do believe in “licks” . . . as I told my now grown children, licks stand for Love, Interest, Kindness and Support . . . which should be given to a child whenever they need it as long as they need it!!!!! PERIOD!!!!
Please stop hiding behind your desk and your island . . . come on the main island and out of your office and experience the terror, frustration, hurt and pain that we as a people are dealing with every single day, month and year that another young black man is murdered!!!
agreed!!
My mother told me the other day my first day of primary school i came home and told her those exact words”if you hit me im calling the police” and she told me i wish you would cause i will give them licks too and lets just say i surrvived all my spanks and the police were never called. All these young men shooting each other our in my generation so i am pretty sure they were told the same thing in primary school. My licks made me who I am today a YOUNG BLACK PRODUCTIVE CITIZEN in society.
I am a pharmacy student and my fellow classmates and I were talking aabout how a lot of parents now have their children on all these A.D.D meds because they can not control them due to lack of correction or do not want to deal with them. Most of those children on those meds do not even have A.D.D.
but hey different strokes for different folks i guess.
If hitting your child is the only form of parenting your child that you have then you are a very poor parent. Do not blame the coalition for why some of these parents don’t actually parent their bad a$$ children.
AGREED!
You “trust any magistrate”? why? Bermuda courts let off pedophiles. Why would you trust Bermuda courts to lift a finger to protect a child?
REALLY????????
To Well Said,
You ever heard of tough love? Love doesn’t just come in one form.
There are many other forms of tough love than hitting your children. Parents need to educate themselves with alternative disciplinary methods and find the ones that fit with children. I understand why parents hit, it’s so much quicker and easier than real parenting.
If licks are the only way you can express your control and set behaviour patterns, don’t be surprised when your children do the same thing with their children, the friends of their children, friends of friends etc. It is because of licks that we have so many of our young men locked up because they have no way to express themselves than by using brute force.
My son is an accountant, my daughter is graduating from university. I never spanked my daughter, I stopped spanking my son when he was less than 4 & I discovered the destruction my actions were doing. I never “left a mark”- as if that is a good thing- but repent that it took me so long and that others do not see what terrible things they do in the name of parental discipline and tough love.
This is the same as wife beating. It is assault. Get over it, it is time for change.
I am graduating from university too and i got licks growing up…so your point is??
I got cut tales and i am not a violent person at all so no that arguement does not work well….the reason why so many of these young men are getting into the trouble they are now days is because they didnt have parents to correct them or parents that didnt care enough. If you ask any of these youn men running around in all this gang mess about their parents 7 out of 10 will tell you they were not even raised by their parents.
If this was a reference to my above comment, clearly you did not understand. “Licks” was never my ONLY way of control or disciplining my children, nor do I condone it. If you read what I said, the acronym said at the end “whenever they need it.” I used “licks when I felt necessary and just like you my son has graduated from college and my daughter is in college, having graduated a year early from high school . . . they are fine. Neither of them are out there shooting and/or gang banging and none of them have ever raised their hand to me or their father!!!
I was spanked, given licks as a child, as were many of my friends, cousins etc., and we are fine. We have never raised our hands to our parents because we weren’t STUPID . . . we had a respectful amount of fear for our parents.
That was my point!!!
I don’t know the ethnicity or background of these parents but let me call an ace an ace because we often dilly dally around this issue, which boils down to cultural beliefs and upbringings.
I guess you can tell us to get over it when it’s our young black boys and men dying, gang banging, and locked up; when it’s our neighborhoods going to hell in a basket. Just wait until the violence begins to spread past the “black areas” of this little island, then we will hear all of you talking about corporal punishment – we’re hearing people calling for the cat-a-nine-tail to be brought back now.
Like I always say – “What we fail to do now with our children, we will pay for later!!!!!!
When are people going to realize that you can discipline a child effectively without resorting to raising your hand, beating, slapping, pinching and verbally abuse?
I survived all of the above and if I knew my rights back then I would have sought protection from someone who thought it was okay to do those things. As a mother of one child who is now 21, I resolutely made the decision to parent my child using age appropriate reasoning and reinforcing consequences when he disobeyed. It was tough because I had to explain to him what he did was not acceptable and why. It would have been easier to sting his legs when he acted up but what message would have I conveyed? That when I was angry it was okay to smack him?
No Spare the rod spoil the child, I contend the reason we have so many ‘rotten apples’ is because they have already been slapped and beaten along the way and not parented with time, effort and love.
You just have to be a public somewhere and hear a mother say to her child, “Come here so-and-so before I slap you”… and you wonder?
**verbally abusing them.
This situation is reprehensible! The Senior Magistrate appears to be going a bit senile lately…These cases should be heard before a panel including women at all times!!!!The whole entire court system needs a total revamping!!!starting with magistrates court!I hope the appeal will be successful! An utter embarrassment! does anyone have to evaluate these magistrateson a bi-annual or quarterly basis to make sure the decisions they are making are sane..its similar to a pilots position, a very serious charge to have so many peoples lives in your hands, we cannot afford for them to be tired, drunk, or non chalant!
I sincerely believe that the Magistrates contribute and exacerbate the problem with crime in this country with their inconsistent, baffling rulings. For a start, REMOVE sentences that are concurrent. If the convicted are not going to serve additional jail time, then don’t sentence them with these nonsensical jail terms that do not mean anything. STOP these sentences that say one thing and mean something else: LIFE, for example if only means 12 to 25 years, then stop calling it LIFE. It’s no different to when you are dealing with children, you have to be consistent: say what you mean and mean what you say. I say the Magistrates are woefully lacking in this area and therefore the law is no longer respected, feared or upheld.
With respect, there have been quite a few of cases, recently, in Magistrates Court where the judgement/sentence did not appear to be appropriate for the “crime” IMO. Too harsh for minor transgressions, or too soft on more serious cases. We really need to take a closer look at what some Bermuda Magistrates have been doing recently… there seems to be no consistency which often makes sentences look unfair and unjust.
damn how times have changed, the children are in control we just have look at the gang violence that we have.
@one eye open—may I suggest you open your other eye! apparently children are not in control! how many recent cases involving children have been handled with reprehension and disregard for the victim, this is not the first case..It may seem like young adults are in control, the 18yrs-up!,having difficulty transitioning into adulthood, but the children, the minors, no absolutely not..beating to a bruising is abuse! especially if it was done twice! we are not talking about a gangster, this is a child! And yes I got my licks but never from both parents for the same offence no less and never to the point of blood or bruising..am I better for it? I don’t know? I am just better though!
Correction: one eye open – the parents have ALLOWED the children to be in control.
I could not and would never fathom that any child that I delivered, fed, clothed, housed, educated, nurtured and LOVED would control me. As I know my place as a Parent then shall that child know his place a child.
And, when the tables are turned and I the parent require the child to look after me, I hope he does it with the care and nurturing he received as a child. You know what they say, what goes around…
Bingo.
Amen
I wil also say this i am not saying beat the child just because..what i am saying is you explain to the child why they are getting licks and what they did wrong and you spank them with reasonable force and still show them love…i do not however condone verbal abuse.
theres a difference between child abuse and correcting a child.
I believe in licks too, but using a belt and leaving welts a month later sounds like abuse to me. Come on people, use a phone book, it spreads the impact over a larger surface area reducing the bruising, that’s police interigation 101 lol.
…Yes that was sarcasm but I do believe in licks, I survive mine and I’m a better person for it. Licks are one thing but if you over do it, as it appears here, you defeat the purpose and send the wrong message. There’s a fine line and if you yourself are angry at the time you should probably send the child to their room while you collect yourself and come up with a sufficient punishment, licks should probably come secondary to a warning but like someone else said, different folks different strokes.
Every child is different…I have two…one requires licks even now and he is 9. The other one never needs licks. They are just different. One is respectful and and the other one is a brat.
This 7 year old child in the courts must have done something very bad and his parents lost it. It does happen every now and then. Parents are fed up! Most parents know that if you go too far you could wind up in jail and your child could be severely injured. But to never lay a hand on a child…I just don’t know how you could raise a child without smacking them???
Children are so bloody brazen today! They are cheeky and they have attitude. I love my children enough to give them licks. Children should have a fear of parents – otherwise, why not do what a kid wants to do whenever he wants to do it??!! My parents gave me the odd wooden spoon and I love them dearly – and contrary to the comment above, I would look after them until their dying day!
Yea next time tell the child to go sit in the ‘naughty corner’ *rolls eyes*
I was a product of ‘licks’ growing up as well all 5 of us brothers and sisters. All now college educated and have never given society any issues! None of us! (Well I did get a parking ticket the other day).
I don’t condone abuse, however, society today is a reflection of the Sparing of the Rod.
Flippin naughty corner!! Take that foolishness back to whereever it came from.
Love this!!!
This is a clear case of the father being vindictive and using the child as a way to get at the mother. ____ *edited* ______ The remmafications of putting a child on the stand to testify against his own mother is reprehensible and no child should have to go threw something like that. By locking this mother up are we then saying that she is unfit to be a parent and her punishment was incorrect and she should not correct her child?? If so are we then telling the child that he doesnt have to listen to his mother becuse his mother is wrong?? While I do agree that their are many different ways to discipline your child I don’t agree that the court or Mrs. Cooper should be the ones telling you how to do this. My mother always told me if you can’t hear you feel and I felt a lot as a child and I turned out great I’m still afraid of my mother (but in a good way). I have respect for my mother and I know that everything she instilled in me growing up has made me a better person. She taught me that there are always consequences to my actions and I should always think of the consequences before I act. ____ *edited* ______ . I pray this child comes out of this and continues to obey and love his mother.
@crying shame—-while I can appreciate your experience, like most of us had,..you continually refer to your mother as the disciplinarian, did you ever have your mother beat you and explain to you why and still get whipped later by a stepparent? I thought not…we are missing the point, this case sends a message to this very impressionable child that the way to settle is to be beaten into submission until the point of bruising, not only by his mother but any boyfriend at the time,.. that is a scary situation to grow up in, knowing that both people are also supposed to be protectors of the public..my licks were never to the point of bruising but it was very depressing, extremely depressing at the time..this is similar to domestic abuse, is it okay to abuse anyone whether it be husband, wife, boyfriend, girlfriend, child, relative, or student? can’t we find a less barbaric way of communicating to one another, it suggest to me that when someone losescontrolof their emotions they lack the ability to reason or control their own feelings, I think most of us may want to check ourselves when it comes to our own god complexes..scars are for life! constant reminders..
Are they trying to say that hitting kids with a leather object is bad? I recall many public schools use to give their students the strap when they got in trouble (I got it once and it left a mark). I don’t know if they still do it because we are talking about 10 years ago. But if it is an issue why was someone who is not even my parent allowed to give me a lick?
But anyways, I am a 20 year old girl, I was hard headed and had to learn the hard way. Some children need different kinds of punishment. When my mama use to threaten me with punishment I really did not care. But once I saw that slipper come off the floor I knew the deal! I got the belt a few times, a few ringas upside the head but I grew up fine and don’t even worry about it, actually my friends and I laugh it off and tell the funny stories about how our parents use to give us smacks. It’s actually quite comical when I look back at it.
There is nothing wrong with giving your child licks, but when you hit them so hard that they have scars, you need to put yourself under punishment!
I got the strap once at school, too… I just laughed at the Vice Principal doing it, it seemed so ridiculous to me at the time.
I gave both my sons the belt across their butts once, they had to count the strokes (it left no welts, but their bums were certainly red!), that was enough, never had any trouble with them since. That was 30 years ago.
Sheila Cooper is the DEVIL!!! Like hell if I will condone any kind of bad behaviour from my child. If he acts up he WILL receive a good smack. This is why these fools are the way they are today, not being disciplined as children, being allowed to do as they please without having to suffer the consequences of their actions. And now look, they’re out here shooting at and murdering each other cause they’ve never known what its like to fear consequences. You don’t want the people of this country to discipline our children, Sheila? Well my suggestion would be for me to drop my unruly child on your door step for you to deal with his behaviour being that the “no hitting” rule seems to be working for you. Lord I pray for this country and I pray for dumb a**es like Sheila Cooper who seems to be an advocate for allowing unruly behaviour which turns into murder, stealing, beating each other etc.
I would venture to say that those persons who are shooting and murdering people in Bermuda probably had no family structure, let alone love, and were probably hit upside the head a LOT .and a lot harder than the adult even knows or considers!
I think Sheila Cooper knows what she is talking about given that this is her field of expertise and also that she raised an upstanding young man in her own son.
The devil? Seriously? You sound good and ignorant. If you can’t discipline your child without hitting them then you should have never had them. I bet you are one of those mothers who humiliates their children in public places like KFC by yelling at them, hitting them and embarrassing them. Those are usually the types who actually grow up to be gang-bangers.
So you agree with beating up little kids to impose discipline. What a wonderful parent you must be.
I guess you also disagree with Sheila Cooper when she speaks out against lenient sentences for pedophiles.
I hope my kids never get within a mile of you.
ABUSE AND DISCIPLINE ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS! Abuse is punishing without reasons and discipline is punishing with reason. Many children are not being punished properly today for the most crucial things such as swearing and hitting/disobedience which leads to murder and violence. The best age to start disciplining them physically is form the age of 8-17. Let no type of disobedience past such as hitting,and swearing,mouthing off. Any smart parent should start discipline before the age of 8 that’s not physical but after that 8 it would be right to. Everything starts at home and it passes on you want your child out their acting the fool than that’s what your child is going to be a FOOL.
I agree with your comments, however discipline of children in my opinion begins far earlier than age 8 years old. Its those critical years being around two years old when children begin testing the limits that discipline should occur.
It’s at this age when children do things like hit their parents or bite that correction, whether verbal or a spanking needs to occur in order for the child to understand what is appropriate and what is not.
But I get your point and agree whole hertedly!!!
I think the case going to Supreme Court would be a good idea given the evidence in the case… and the religious fever in this country (and in these comments) that seem to promote abuse as a legitimate form of parental guidance and discipline. Maybe this is part of the challenge we have here in Bermuda with people feeling whole and worthy and thus able to live healthy and productive lives.
Did anyone listen to the sherry simmons show today ? a caller who is know as aunt Peggy said that white people are a freak of nature !!!!and they have no spirituality !!!!well the host let her go on and on and then said aunt Peggy I have to stop you,,,but the host made sure she got her point across before stopping her !!!!! as a white lady , I was shocked that the host let her go and on, thank you Z.B.M. for having this very biased lady fired…and thank you Z.B.M.for having the best talk show host in bermuda, we all love Gina she is so uplifting.
What’s this to do with the topic at hand? Sherri appropriately disengaged from the caller when she got out of line. Stop spinning the truth!!
@Webster—I also heard Sherri’s show..I understand that people have a lot of unvented feelings and if someone would have stopped white people years ago from discriminating against people based on colour we would not have people like aunt Peggy who carry emotional scars to this day..I was hoping she would talk some more I was enjoying hearing her vent and understood the place she was coming from, I have heard white people refer to themselves as “devil” and I have seen some act without feelings when it comes to someone outside their race, so lets keepit real..white callers are often allowed more air time and sometimes they curse and nothing is said or done, so I do understand aunt Peggys frustration and just remember what we were taught”sticks and stones may break my bones but names can never hurt me”…Most young black males are collectedly refered to as no good also!just because a handful act up the entire lot are put in one category! just like the story above, abuse in any form is unacceptable and what happened to all black people and still is happening today, even in Bermuda regardless of the amount of black people in power,we are still behind economically and are always expected to be on our best behavior..well after being treated as less than whole and being demeaned most of our lives,how civil do you expect black people to be? Coming back to this story, what typr of behavior would we expect this seven year old to exhibit? you failed to even mention him in your diatribe. So we see where you are at..
Ever since this Cooper woman came on the scene this country has gone down hill fast. _______ Mrs Cooper stay on your little island and keep your BS to yourself.
I smell a rat, the father seems a bit malicious. I bet it’s one of those cases where the father wants the mother and can’t have her.
Too many times we speculate about a case that the good old reliable *other media* prints. I for one know that the *other media* hardly ever prints exactly what transpired in a court building. So a word of advice, believe little of what you see and nothing that you read.
I feel for the mother in this case and I suspect there’s more to this story than Mrs Cooper is saying.
Truth Seeker, you’re way off base here. You know not of what you speak. Remember, it was not the child’s biological father that made the report to Child and Family Services, but the child’s school made the report.
I don’t know how many times I’ve seen mothers in shops with small children in tow, and so many are impatient, verbally abusive, and some even get physical. And no, I didn’t intervene, in this day and age you just have to fear for your own safety, especially when some of those big moms look like they can totally kick my a$$. Anyway- my point being that there are so many ill-equipped parents around, it’s so bad these days. Why is your child acting up in the store? Is it because they’re tired, or because they need a snack, or because they’re bored and feel less engaged in the outing than your handbag??
I pay attention to my child’s needs. So long as those are met, he’s just fine. I don’t take him shopping when it’s nap time. I don’t tolerate whining. I don’t buy him junk food. I do let him have a snack if we’re out for more than an hour or so. I talk to him while we are shopping, and engage him in what I’m doing- like let him put produce in the bag, or tell me the kinds of things he’d like for dinner, or encourage questions about the things we see in the store. He’s not quite three, but I can guarantee that the only times he was ‘terribly two’ I can count on one hand, and it was because I didn’t pay attention to his needs, not his fault.
Speak to your children respectfully. They are not accessories, they are small people with big feelings. If you treat them with consideration and respect, then that’s what they will model. Treat them with scorn, anger, frustration, foul language and sarcasm, and guess just what they will imitate? It’s not hard to treat them as respectfully as you want them to treat you. Remember- they’re the ones who are going to be responsible for YOU someday. Neglect them now, abuse them now, and your ‘golden years’ are truly going to suck. I actually overheard one mother saying to her child, ‘Shut up. I TOLD YOU SHUT THE F**K UP, STUPID!’ So, that kid’s going to be a choirboy??? Get a clue, dopey moms. If you think you wouldn’t want to be spoken to that way, then you child probably won’t benefit from it either.
Amen…I am fed up with children being spoken to like that also. Hurts me to hear children being spoken to like that – not by some school yard bullies but by their own mothers…sad.
Discipline has to be given at times. Abuse never to a child. Its hard to fathom welts still present a month later, maybe they were from a more recent licking. As far as Sheelagh Cooper goes,I understand her abuse plight, but maybe she should reveal the outcome of her undisciplined ___ that used to throw tantrums in town regularly and let the rest of bermuda Know that he could do as he liked. When she started her rants in the media, all hell broke loose with Bermuda’s children and discipline.
I am against abuse ! but a good Arse cutting is in order when it is deserved
wasn’t it Mrs Cooper who championed getting corporal punishment taken out of schools 20 odd years ago? now we see the results of that.
Parenting is the most dificult ‘job’ on the planet and very few of us begin to prepare for it until we hear that there’s one on the way. so at most we prepare 9 months for a job that will last a lifetime. Schools were and should be an extention of the home and society. students no longer fear (respect) teachers like we used to so they do what they want at home, do what they want at school til they are teenagers and then all of a sudden we think they will fear (respect) good law and order. we deceive ourselves clearly.
what should be very alaming to every person in bda is that the children of today will be the parents of tomorrow…we need to address this very quickly or this island will cease to be as we currently know it…let alone only 10 short years ago.
I don’t normally agree with Shelagh Cooper, but I’m with her on this one. I do not believe that it is ever necessary to beat children but I do believe in discipline.
I also don’t understand why the stepfather had to beat the child for the same “offense” after the mother had already beat him. What was that about? In this case, the father plays an active role in the child’s life so it was unnecessary for the stepfather to get involved with disciplining the child. The mother should be doubly punished for allowing the stepfather to beat her child to the extent that the child will be scarred for life. I have seen the pictures and I was almost sick to my stomach.
To think that this man who beat someone else’s child is an officer of the law is scary.
This case was pure and simple child abuse. Archie Warner should be ashamed of himself. I wonder how he would feel if his child had been beaten like that by someone other than their father.
I agree with LaVerne on this. I don’t usually, but we see this the same way. There is absolutely no excuse for physical abuse of children. None at all.
Discipline is a completely different thing from abuse. Plain and simple.
Surprise!… I’m with you on this one! Quite a few cops have anger, violence, and aggression issues, that’s why they become cops.
Ms. Furbert, I agree with your sentiments 100% on this.
Once when my son was about 8 or 9 he was acting out to the point he raised his foot to kick me and when he did I lightly tapped on the same leg. He jeered me by saying “Ah, Mommy that didn’t even hurt!” and I bent down to his level and replied, “No sweetheart, it wasn’t meant to hurt. It was a reminder that kicking your mother is not what little boys should do.” I went on to say, “I am a lot bigger than you and if I wanted to hurt you I could do so very easily. The point is that I love you and would never ever hurt you.” I never had another incident like that. My son is now 21 years old.
I imagine some posters here would have resorted to a host of other physical punishments bordering on abuse and use the Bible as a justification.
What is truly sad is that it has been proved that the beating/floggins that so many people believe in, do not know that this is a throw back from Slavery…. I wish I could find the research to post it here. Please people get off this kick! It is not ok to mark a child’s flesh in such a brutal way. Surely the Social Workers would not have brought this case to court if there was not sufficient evidence that should have resulted in a conviction of child abuse of both the mother and the step father. Both Shealagh Cooper of the Coalition for the Protection of Children and Ms Laverne Furbert have stated they have seen the pictures, that is sufficient for me. No wonder we have so many angry young people in our midst!! Let us all press for a re-trial and then make the picture public, since there are so many people who believe it is alright!!Now where is that petition!!!
@ Rock Watcher: THank you, thank you, thank you! I also believe that the idea that children should be beaten or flogged is a shameful symptom of Post Traumatic Slave Syndrome. I have thought for a while that we saw a dog or horse beaten or otherwise treated like some of our children are, we would be up in arms about such cruel and inhumane treatment. Do we love our children less? Do we value our children less? Do we not see that as adults, being often more than twice the size of our children, we can be terrifying figures to them, and offering them violence in order to force compliance is just another form of bullying.
I remember being terrified of my mother as a child, and hating her too. I remember deciding at the age of 8 that when I grew up, no-one was ever going to make me do anything again. I remember at age 11 planning suicide, and my mother wasn’t as abusive as some of the parents I have seen. She just used to hit me with my father’s leather belt. She also told me why I was being hit and that she loved me. I didn’t believe her for a minute. How could you love someone and hurt them? We tell victims of domestic abuse that the person who hits them while insisting they love them, is someone who doesn’t know what healthy love is. Where is the difference?
LaVerne, on this issue, you and I are totally on the same page. I am also persuaded that the violence we see today has less to do with no discipline in the home and more to do with being taught that violence is the way to make people do what you want, through being hit with electrical cords (a favourite here), belts, broom sticks, fists, feet, and other objects.
I’m thinking the Judge probably needs some disciplining for their decision … Any suggestions here?
There is nothing that a 7 year old could do that could be so bad to deserve such a beating. Funny the child’s biological father says that he didn’t have any severe discipline problems with child so he can’t be all that bad as some people seem to think. If dad has a better hold on him discipline wise, mom should have called for him to step in when whatever he did took place instead of him getting a double beating by she and the stepfather. Usually by the time a parent hits they are frustrated with child and that is the worst time to hot because really all you are doing is throwing an adult tantrum on the child.
Discipline is neccessary, however, there is nothing a seven year old boy could do that should result in a severe beating. I understand a good smack across the leg or one in the hand but bruising him? I mean did he kill someone? Okay than. Physical discipline is common, I mean I’m had a crack a couple times in my day. But cracks, not tumpings and lashes.
Sorry, but these little rude-a$$ kids need a little tap every now and then…. It starts with their mouths!!! I remember growing up, my neighbors, classroom teacher, members at church, and family members were all permitted to correct a child if need be. Making a kid sit in a corner for a few minutes to think about what they did does not always have a positive result. Give him a few taps cross his/her bottom and I bet every time they go to that very same thing that got them in trouble in the first place, they will think twice, before doing it! You let my child tell me I can’t hit them, and they are calling the police! I wish they would! hmmmmppphh!
POINT BLANK… Hitting a child that leaves marks months later is abuse! My mother NEVER hit me and NO it weren’t time out either. It was taking things away from me that I wanted to do or have. I turned out great as well as my brother and sisters. If a grown man left welts on his girlfriend it would be a TOTALLY different story right??? A 7 year old boy does know what’s right from wrong, but he does not deserve to be beat like that! I am disgusted!!