Attorney General & Shadow: Is JetGate Talk Ok?

March 4, 2014

The Attorney-General and Shadow Attorney-General went back and forth in the House of Assembly on Monday [Mar 3], arguing the law as it pertains to discussing a case presently before the courts.

Opposition Leader Marc Bean brought up “Jetgate“, and Attorney-General Mark Pettingill interjected saying that due to the legal matters underway Mr. Bean discussing the matter was sub judice, which Shadow Attorney General Kim Wilson objected to.

Oxford University Press describes sub judice as “Under judicial consideration and therefore prohibited from public discussion elsewhere.”

The Opposition Leader also objected, saying that Jetgate has nothing to do with the writs, which was followed by additional objections from the Attorney-General, and subsequently the Shadow Attorney-General.

On February 21, three writs were entered in the Supreme Court records, with Premier Craig Cannonier filing against Mr. Bean and Mr. Burt, while Minister Shawn Crockwell and Mr. Pettingill also filed against Mr. Bean.

This followed after strong allegations were made in the House of Assembly on February 14 by both Mr Bean and MP David Burt, which they both subsequently repeated outside of Parliamentary Privilege.

13-minute audio of part of the exchange:

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  1. Burt To Question Premier Cannonier On Landow | Bernews.com | March 7, 2014
  1. Oh for Lords sake will the PLP please stop the nonsense – Bda did not pay for the plane ride!! Ok not totally above board but we need to stop the crap and get along with running the country. Much is at stake and so are people lives.
    The PLP can do so much better but are stuck on silly!!!

    • Onion says:

      It was wrong of them to get on that plane and to accept that flight.

      We know that, they know that and let’s hope they learn from the mistake.

      Personally I want the truth on everything: Pay to Play, Cement Company, Club Med, Port Royal, JetGate, TCD, etc. Let’s get it all out in public.

    • Hopefulness says:

      It looks like many OBA fans just love Betty Trump, look they use her name all the time… REALLY Betty Trump you must be great girl, if others want to use your name as well !!

      keep speaking up Bettty.

      But, it now looks like the OBA want to avoid asking Questions regarding Jetgate !!! WOW.

      • Mark says:

        I would say that Betty is more of a mascot for the type of ignorance people have come to expect rather than a beloved commenter.

        Honestly, with all the completely illogical rants she shouts on about, the constant commenting (does she have a job?) and the illiterate verbal diarrhea, I would not be surprised if she was a fictional character crafted by an OBA supporter for the sake of humor.

        • Speak Truth says:

          Seems like you also love Bettty, but your unable to deal with her straight forward comments. What really eats you up is that on most ocassions she calls it Right in regards to the failures of the OBA and that is what is difficult for you and others to accept.

          The lack of transparency within the OBA is Sickening.

          • haha says:

            you’re a complete moron if you believe half of what betty actually writes…real talk

    • Truth be told says:

      Why can’t the truth be told. We harassed the PLP for the truth. We need truths from all parties!

      • Redo says:

        Wait. What? Did we ever get the truth from the PLP/BIU? Did I miss it? Did we find out where all the money went? Did we find out why Uighers have jobs but a lot of us don’t? I could go on and on…..

      • Yes but we never got the truth – ever!! Only when the Govt. changed did we actually know the gravity of the situation.

    • Mazumbo says:

      Don’t try to sweep this one under the carpet this stinks and the smell cant wash away that easy. You would’ve flugged Dr. Brown and de P.L.P if they would’ve did it, now you know how it feels.
      LMFAO

      • Benny Trump says:

        Too bad your idiotic thinking leaves nobody better off. Except maybe those dumb enough to think an eye for an eye doesn’t leave the whole world blind. Like you, perhaps? Idk. Mazumbo you are not. Clearly.
        At the end of the day you quickly becoming the person you used to hate. Enjoy it ;)

      • haha says:

        d smells actually coming from ya upper lip…or ya pants. isn’t hard to see…

        • Mazumbo says:

          YA YA YA, enough about me even though I’m flattered the issue at hand is four guys went on a mission and it was reported three and ya boy that bummed a lift was present in de meeting, ya diversion is played out.
          Looks like they were caught in an uncompromised position.
          LMFAO

  2. J Starling says:

    The issue of Jet Gate is separate from the defamation suit writs.

    As such, the AG’s argument that it is sub judice appears out of place and irrelevant. What is sub judice would be discussing the subject of the writs – the allegations that the Premier attempted to bribe the Opposition Leader and Shadow Finance Minister – not Jet Gate, which is a separate issue altogether.

    • Hmmm says:

      What does it have to do with debating the budget?

      Please explain.

    • Greed Killed Bermuda says:

      Also – and this is a key point, there is nothing before the courts. A civil writ has been served, until there is court action – debate cannot be halted.

    • Hopefulness says:

      Thanks Mr Starling for stating that so clearly.

      ” issue of Jet Gate is separate from the defamation suit writs.

      As such, the AG’s argument that it is sub judice appears out of place and irrelevant. What is sub judice would be discussing the subject of the writs – the allegations that the Premier attempted to bribe the Opposition Leader and Shadow Finance Minister – not Jet Gate, which is a separate issue altogether.”

      Looks clearly like the OBA do not want to answer any Questions in regards to anything these days. I am most disappointed with this government whom promised me they would do things differently. This is an outrage of a government whom seems to be running from TRANSPARENCY AND TRUTH>

    • Unbelievable says:

      Exactly, WHAT DO THEY HAVE TO HIDE?

      Mr. Burt and Mr. Bean came out from under the privileges of the HOA to show the country, IMO, they were not afraid of the legalities.

      Now this government is trying to impede democratic rights in the HOA – this is the change we voted for?

  3. Truth is killin' me... says:

    You lot (both PLP and OBA) are like freakin’ children…and Starling…you’re nothing but an instigator in the playground!!

    • Recall dem all says:

      Starling points to the facts objectively,

      Carry

      On

      Starling

      We appreciate your objectivity.

  4. somuchless says:

    Children will always be children.

    • Unbelievable says:

      Yea, when the OBA gets call out, they come out and describe all like children.

      • Hmmm says:

        by your post, you imply that the PLP sends out calls for people to post….Interesting, what is it like being summoned to action by a political party?

  5. Senior says:

    How OBA supporters can just hammer away at justifying this Jet Gate fiasco is totally amazing. Can you not see how wrong this is – and please stop comparing everything with what the PLP did – that is the past and now history – harping on it time and time again will not change it. But this Premier that you keep propping up day after day after day is doing this country no favours right now/in the present.

    • DarkSideofTheMoon says:

      That’s all OBA supporters do. The OBA could kill newborn kittens and strangle puppies in front of City Hall and OBA supporters would be like, “It’s OK because the PLP was government for 14 years…”

      • Suzie Quattro says:

        Er, no.

        The purpose of raising what the PLP did is a legitimate response. The PLP has absolutely no moral standing to suddenly get outraged about things which it routinely did. Reminding you and others that the PLP did the things which the PLP now complains about has several purposes. First, it shows that another government at some point thought the behavior was reasonable. Second, it highlights the hypocrisy of the criticism.

        I can understand why the PLP doesn’t like having these things brought up. It is embarrassing for the PLP; every time it criticizes the government, there are dozens of people reminding the PLP that its behavior was the same or worse. This does undermine the opposition’s credibility.

        Here is a suggestion. Instead of nitpicking on trivial issues, why doesn’t the PLP focus on trying to help get the country out of the mess it’s in?

        • watching says:

          Wasn’t the OBA supposed to be “a better way”? If so, then to use the PLP’s performance as a barometer for them to act the same way or worse, is not acceptable.

          The PLP has made many constructive suggestions and has supported much of the legislation the OBA has brought. Do you pay attention? Jetgate is not a trivial issue. Travel is something that the OBA brought up prior to 2012 and used as an election tactic. Now the PLP brings it up and it is considered “trivial”? Different standards, Suzie Q?

          • Suzie Quattro says:

            You accuse me of “different standards”, but you’re the one refusing to acknowledge that the PLP did these things. As I said, pointing out that the PLP did these things is entirely legitimate.

            • watching says:

              But does it matter in so much as excusing the OBA now? The PLP lost the election. Fair and square. The OBA capitalized on peoples’ disappointments yet are doing the same things if not worse. The PLP never were this dismissive of the electorate in so much as doing whatever they wanted without responding to queries and questions. The arrogance from Cannonier is astounding. The PLP has admitted where it went wrong. But do they need to do it every time they speak? No not at all. Let’s move forward. But the OBA needs to do better.

              • Hmmm says:

                The OBA do need to do better, agreed. Noone should rest on laurels and the OBA so far show no indication of resting.

            • tricks are for kids says:

              No one is REFUSING to acknowledge anything…..However, two wrongs don’t make it right….and it’s true….everytime the OBA is questioned (which by the way is legitimate as well) OBA’s reponse is well PLP did it during their 14 years…That is their only defense and it is getting rather redundant. The OBA promised many a thing in their platform but it hasn’t come to fruition……stop CONSTANTLY referring to the past as we get it…However, we VOTED for you to MAKE A CHANGE and MAKE A DIFFERENCE….

              • Suzie Quattro says:

                The OBA’s response is not “well the PLP did it” “every time the OBA is questioned”.

                Take the travel expenditure issue last week. Cannonier is spending less than half per month compared to Ewart Brown, for example. Yet Bernews was full of inane Betty Trump posts trying to pretend that the OBA was saying “the PLP did the same”. They didn’t. The PLP was far worse.

                There is nothing wrong with bringing up what the PLP did as a way of comparing what is happening now.

          • Benny Trump says:

            “Wasn’t the OBA supposed to be “a better way”? If so, then to use the PLP’s performance as a barometer…” —- Hold on. You do realize that to show a ‘better way’ the OBA must constantly compare themselves to the plpbiu right? Simpleton much?

          • Jim Jones says:

            The argument against the PLP’s travel was based on the money spend on travel. These guys spent no money on that flight. It was a bonehead move accepting the free lift, but if you want to complain about OBA spending money on travel you should pick a different trip.

            • ABM says:

              He did not hitch a ride. Truth already came out that he was there on business with the premier.

      • LOL (Original TM*) says:

        DREB did alot of things I and many others did not agree with from damage to the Premiers car, comments in the house and in international interviews(white people not needing any help), need for bodyguards, spending on PBoy, under him the 60/40 was relaxed (I don’t agree with the OBA either on this one, had a guy arrested for using harsh language towards him and many many more. As far as the OBA is concerned many bloggers on here that are pro OBA have leveled critique on the things they did not like on here so what are you talking about. Just because you and mainly PLP supporters on here think something should not have been done does not mean everyone agrees with you. Oh and don’t let it be something the PLP did due when in power cause the OBA supporters will point it out and then will point out the silence from the PLP supporters on the matter when it was done. The closest any PLP supporter has gotten is that they “know that the PLP made some missteps” or they “did not agree with everything” but at the end of the day and under any pressure to explain they can’t so lets be real here. That is why OBA people say the PLP did it. It does not excause the OBA but the PLP set the presedence for most of these things.

        LOL

        LOL

        • ABM says:

          Agree with all but the last part. It wasn’t the PLP who set the precedence, it was the UBP.

          • haha says:

            hardly….show me some facts. oh you ank got none. ya laughable

    • Anbu says:

      Wow talk about hypocrisy…….. Think about it. What did u say? That its in the past and now history so stop harping about it? Smh.

    • James says:

      Seriously, I just don’t get the ‘toing and frooing’. I don’t understand why PLP supporters bother to frustrate themselves. It’s pretty simple, in 4 years time, vote the OBA out and this time insist that the PLP do the job that was done in the first several years that pre-dated the good doctor. Now don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t want the PLP to return to those early days of feeling as though they had to out conservative an ultra conservative UBP. No need to return to those apologist days under the good Madam, when the PLP were determined to reduce the deficit, which they did, but at the expense of the social agenda that won them their first victory. Revamp the hierarchy; place fiscally and socially responsible members at the top.
      They do exist but they aren’t currently in leadership roles. Until then, become a better party, become the party that got you elected the first time . Then do your talking! PLP voter than found it impossible not to vote you out but would love nothing more than to vote a responsible PLP back in.

  6. Citizen Banned says:

    Dear PLP: Is this really the best you can do? Moan about something that your fearless leader did many times? Come up with something more juicy – you are embarrassing yourselves. The only people who will buy this BS are those too stupid to even vote for you in th first place.

    If this is the best you can do then you are FINISHED.

    PLPATHETIC

    • DarkSideofTheMoon says:

      Here we go again. The PLP did this, and the PLP did that, so it’s OK for our people too…

      • Onion says:

        Nobody is saying it’s ok.

        What we’re saying is the PLP don’t have a moral leg to stand on.

        • LOL (Original TM*) says:

          I think the term used was “moral fortitude”………..

          LOL

        • ABM says:

          So you are saying that its not ok, and the PLP are not allowed to say anything in relation to any matter that is political, correct? Help me understand what it is you are trying to say?

          • Mike Hind says:

            Pointing out hypocrisy and this attitude of “It’s ok when WE do it” is NOT saying that they aren’t “allowed to say anything in relation to any matter that is political”…

            You made that up.

      • Citizen Banned says:

        I never said it was OK for anyone to do it. All I said was that if this is the best PLP can do – then they are PLPATHETIC.

        They are coming across as whiney, moaning, spoilt brats.

        When OBA starts sneaking political prisoners in under cover of darkness for absolutely no income or fee, then I start to get worried.

    • WhistleBlower says:

      Before you go label king non voters as ‘stupid’ ask yourself – Have I met with every non voter and certified them ‘stupid’??????
      Judge not least you be judged!!!!

  7. watching says:

    The writs were filed because of accusations.
    Jet Gate was nothing to do with that. The attempt to shut down the debate from the OBA was a stretch from Pettingill.
    If the OBA feel that the two are part of the same issue, then that may just be adding fuel to the fire.

    • Hmmm says:

      I still want to know how Marc Bean can justify his role in a betting shop and why CURB have not castigated him for it. Especially following their recent press release and impending report on the proposed gaming.

      • LOL (Original TM*) says:

        The problem I have with CRUB as well.

        LOL

  8. Ruthless says:

    At least no Uighers came back off the Jet!

  9. watching says:

    HAHAHA Kim Wilson gave Pettingill the legal smackdown!

  10. Ruthless says:

    After listening to the majority of the debate, I have officially given up on Bermuda! I realize now that there are children running this island! OBA and PLP stop ya bickering and fix the damn island! Bermuda is sinking fast,

  11. MamaAFRICA says:

    I find it so strange that people come on this blog day after day and just talk without realising just how ignorant they sound. The reason PLP talked about the jet gate is because it was relevant to a budget debate. No this particular trip did not cost the people anything but there is the Department of Communication and Information which is in charge of making sure the premier and all government officials are open with the people. Another department also discussed that day was under project Management and Procurement which was also under debate for the budget. That is a relevant question to ask?

    For you people who care only about money and not about the way business is handled in this country let me just say this. Turning a blind eye will just give it time to end up on your door step. Then what?

    • Hmmm says:

      SO, how do you feel about planning applications being pushed through, Spice Valley, Bean and the betting shop, Burt and the alcohol, BIU not paying up on the bond, Playboy mansion, Berkley massive cost overruns following ignoring advice of professionals whose job it is to advise, the COH debacle and so much more?

    • inna says:

      Give what time to have what end on my doorstep?

    • LOL (Original TM*) says:

      Where you really worried about how things were done or did that just start on Dec 17 2013?

      LOL as we know how things where done by the PLP left them open to many questionable issues, these issues became known as “plantation questions”

    • Triangle Drifter says:

      Then they get thrown out, just like the PLP did.

    • Jim Jones says:

      How is a FREE trip relevent to the budget?

  12. Filibuster says:

    Both parties are not worthy of sitting in that house. Jetgate should have never come up as this is a debate on the budget, not somewhere for the opposition to get in their talking points.

    By the way, the budget debate is for what is going to happen with the money being requested, they should never be talking about the past as a matter of parliamentary process – the speaker should be enforcing this (although he/she rarely does).

    It is a disgrace how these two parties conduct themselves in that house, and it has been for years. I have sat through 5 debates in that house in a former life and not once, ever, did I witness one minute of healthy debate, not once.

    I have seen opposition members simply yelling out of turn, sitting ministers doing the same, ministers playing on email, walking in and out (if you ever want a laugh, watch Zane do his George Jefferson walk in the house). I watched a PLP minister do a two hour report to one UBP shadow, the rest were in the back. I have seen open bullying, sexist comments and the like during the budget debate.

    If any of you, who have not seen it yourself, think that these politicians are doing anything constructive then please, take your drivers licence, walk into the house upstairs and watch for 1/2 an hour. Then decide if any single person in the house is worth your vote.

    • inna says:

      Unfortunately, any MP in that house has what is called Parliamentary Privelege. Look it up. Though i am not condoning the actions of our illustrious MP’s on the hill, the system is the way it has been for hundreds of years. It is up to us, the younger generation to challenge the system and change it for the better!

      • Filibuster says:

        I am referring specifically to the budget debate where there are very clear rules that the speaker is to enforce. Parliamentary Privilege does not allow a minister for example to ignore the speakers instructions, or to alter the process of a debate, or to break the rules of the house. PP has no relevance in my comment. In fact I think the public should be educated on the budget process and what they should expect prior to it taking place so that we can hold our representative accountable.

        When a minister goes on for 1 hour and 55 minutes of his 2 hour debate talking about what they did last year, he or she is violating the rules of the debate and should be corrected by the speaker.

        But because you asked me to look it up, I did:

        PP from the Parliament act 1957 – It provides absolute protection for members from civil and/or criminal prosecution for defamation for what they say in the House; and this protection is also extended to those who publish and/or broadcast proceedings of the Legislature.

        • Speak Truth says:

          Go to London and see how they conduct themselves in the house. BERMUDA is mild in comparsion. Also I suggest you also travel and
          seat in other governments go to Australia, New Zealand, Italy and other countries in Europe I think you will get a rude awakening. Bermuda does good so far and debating is a heated form of interaction and dialogue.

  13. Hopefulness says:

    Well done MP BURT and MP BEAN, keep standing strong. This younger version of the PLP has got me looking at the party from a news set of lens. I like what I see now !! I also see that OBA are failing with their buzz word TRANSPARENCY !! This lack of willing to Answer Key Questions also suggest that the OBA were not serious about been transparent to the people of Bermuda. It seems to be getting worst.

    • Hmmm says:

      So, you didn’t read the article on the appointing of a commissioner to oversee transparency. Erm OK, keep your head in the sand and voting PLP…14 years and ZERO Transparency.

  14. Triangle Drifter says:

    JETGATE! Oh good grief, is this the best that the PLP & their plackard bearers can come up with? They have been out in the hayfield picking at straws over this one so much that it is down as short as a putting green.

    If the taxpayer had paid the thousands to charter & go for the 1 1/2 ride then there would be something to moan about. But it did niot happen that way. 1 1/2 hours! How much could have been possibly discussed in that time?

    Y’all need to find some bones with some meat on them to gnaw on.

    • watching says:

      haha…you guys would love Jetgate to disappear as you know it is the initial piece of a puzzle that you don’t want the dots connected on.

    • shutthemdown says:

      then why did the oba lie about the trip if is is nothing?

    • One Up One Down says:

      I’m pretty sure no one cares if the trip was free. I think people care more about what the trip was for and why Mr. Cannonier said his friend only “hitched a ride” when he actually attended the meeting (according to Mr. Crockwell).

  15. Point of Order! Mr. Speaker... says:

    Somebody is misleading the House! …and we the people demand the truth!

  16. Take it Easy! says:

    If plp supporters want the oba supporters too stop ignoring the facts about jetgate and want answer we should demand answers. We oba supporters also want answers on where 800mil went, spring benny. Spice hill, illegal imagrants, and the list goes on! If u plp supporters demand those answers and Don’t well what a hypocritical bunch u are!

  17. Speak Truth says:

    Well done this Strong and Youthful PLP Opposition. I am very impressed with your keen actions of keeping the Government Accountable. It is clear you are working in the best interest of Bermuda and her people. Keep it up.

  18. Terry says:

    Premier Cannonier overstepped.
    He and his new Cabinet thought they were high end. Sorta like a new puppy sucking a tite.
    They learn. I am sure they have.

  19. Coffee says:

    I don’t understand what all the fuss is about , the OBA bloggers are right , let’s just get a petition going on the issue of jetgate , send it to London , to the FCO Let them deal with it while we all work together to get our lovely little harmonious island back on the right track .

  20. All the government does is take tax payers’ dollars to buy unnecessary stuff. See police and politician mi nuh trust non of them rude bwoy