AME Church Oppose Human Rights Amendment
The AME Church said they oppose the Human Rights Act amendment to include protection from discrimination based on sexual orientation as “legislation that endorses homosexuality violates God’s Word.”
The statement from the Church comes as the Bermuda Government prepares to table the amendment today [May 17], on a day which also happens to be International Day Against Homophobia, Biphobia and Transphobia.
In recognition of this day, Amnesty International, Centre for Justice, Rainbow Alliance, Two Words and a Comma and the Vision Ministry will host a picnic lunch on the steps of the House of Assembly at 12.15pm today.
“We will be making banners and posters in support. Attendees are encouraged to wear purple, the colour adopted for the International Day Against Homophobia, Biphobia and Transphobia,” said a statement from the group.
In a statement issued by the Church about the amendment which will be tabled today, a spokesperson said, “The AME Church opposes the Human Rights Act amendment to include sexual orientation as a protected class.
“The AME Church opposes legislation that threatens the traditional family structure and erodes Bermuda society as a whole. This amendment does both.
“Since the Bible is clear that a relationship involving sexual intimacy is to be between a man and a woman within the bounds of marriage, legislation that endorses homosexuality violates God’s Word and gives up a Christian’s conscientious obligation to obey it.
“The AME Church believes that all people are made in God’s image, including those affected by same sex attraction. The Church will defend human dignity because of the Church’s commitment to godly principles.
“However, the AME Church unapologetically resists this amendment and appeals to those of like-mind to do the same.”
The most recent Throne Speech said: “Justice is about fairness and equality of access for all. Bermuda does not have that standard and it is to our collective discredit as a democratic country in the 21st Century.
“Bermuda’s Human Rights Act 1981 no longer meets the standard for human rights in a 21st Century democracy. Government proposes therefore to replace the outdated Act in this Parliamentary Session with a new broadly based Bill that will address protection against discrimination for a range of characteristics including age and sexual orientation.”
A bill calling for the amendment has been brought before the House before. In 2006, then-MP Renee Webb [PLP] brought a Private Members Bill to add sexual orientation as a protected grounds of discrimination under the Human Rights Act, which failed to pass.
they are human just like you %^$#@. love the person not the sin. love everyone as I loved you. did you church going *%$#@ forget that you just high on empty holiness,
your right,,,, love yah first and love your brother (everyone) as you luv yourself,,but you dont have to love the sin
A person has worked extremely hard and done a great job for a number of years, but the boss learns from a friend that the person is homosexual and fires him because the employee is homosexual. Is that fair? If not fair then amend the Human rights Act ! That is what this is about, the rest of the conversation is just ignorance on what is being tabled.
I read all the blogs from top to bottom and decided to go straight back to the top and challenge all the blogs.
There was one young person who claimed to be an adult and having sex with their own mother,further down in the blogs.she claims that she and her mother want to marry each other,they also feel they have rights.
Regardless if this is truth or fiction,or someone trying to seek attention. the truth of the matter is everyone has rights and are protected under the human rights commision.
I have rights and I am not or have ever been perfect, but does my lifestyle need legislation to create filth and utter disgrace. I lived a homosexual life and I lived an adulterous life and I have tried everything that I wanted to experience in life, but it did not make me right.
How far are we really willing to go and how much will his effect our children and their learning, today people say they want equal rights and justice. In my day that meant living according to Gods Holy word but today it is not Gods Word that these people are fighting for but their own.
If you want to open up the flood gates,then do it but be ready for the consequences that follows. I use to waiste alot of time on this subject but the truth is I got one answer to it all and I think it works.
LET THE CHURCH BE THE CHURCH AND WHEN WE BECOME WHO GOD SAYS WE ARE,
THEN THE WORLD CAN SEE, THAT WE ARE WHO WE SAY WE ARE. AT THE END OF IT ALL WE WILL ANSWER EACH HUMAN BEING FOR HIS OR HER OWN DECISIONS IN LIFE. I AM FULLY COVINCE THAT PEOPLE ARE TIRED OF HEARING ABOUT THE BIBLE, THEY WANT TO SEE THE BIBLE IN LIVING COLOR,WALKING WITH THE EVIDENCE.
ps: for the record @ the church says: I use to curse the church also back in my day and do I remember the reaping that I got for the seeds I sowed,so enjoy your harvest when it comes.
“the truth of the matter is everyone has rights and are protected under the human rights commision”
In that case, I assume you would be OK if the words “religion or beliefs” were removed from the Human Rights Act?
Great question.
Then say I am not gonna employ/serve/rent to you because you are Christian and there would be nothing you could do about it because it wouldn’t be illegal to do so. That is something that, I am pretty sure, the homosexuals have to deal with at the moment. The funny thing is sexual orientation isn’t a choice religion IS. So the argument of choosing to be gay is invalid on that level anyway. People choose to be or stay Christian/Muslim/Atheist etc. So even if, I say “if” because it isn’t a choice, sexual orientation was something that individual “chose” that would not be a valid reason not to protect it from discrimination either.
If a person thinks he has a right to be gay we have a right to disagree with that.
people don’t think their gay any more than a person thinks they are not… Yes you have the right to disagree, but disagreeing doesn’t mean that all people should have the same rights.
shouldn’t (fingers can’t keep up with brain)
But not discriminate against them for it.
That’s incredibly stupid. Tell me can you breathe and walk at the same time?
You are right – but don’t hide behind religion to support your views!! It’s hypocricy at its best.
Go watch the first twenty minutes of “Zeitgeist”, the movie and then do us all a favour and get a life!
It’s not about disagreeing. It’s about being allowed to discriminate against them.
We shouldn’t have that right.
I just hope the AME spokesperson was not a woman as it is against gods will for women to speak until given permission by a man.
Ignorant. Plain ol’ ignorant
The person(s) was also more than likely black which, according to a popular interpretation for a couple of centuries, was against God’s Word too as blacks weren’t to be educated. Sinners…
According to a popular interpretation…why not think for yourself though?
Man was created in the image of God. We are ALL equal in His sight so who cares what colour the spokesperson was!? Why should that matter?
All equal so why does AME care if someone is gay??
It’s one thing to “care” if someone is gay and another to say you don’t agree with it…
It’s not about agreeing. It’s about being able to discriminate. What this pastor is promoting is “We should be allowed to discriminate against this group of people”
I’m refereing to the use of the Bible back in the 1600s to show why Negroes should be slaves. And that reference that all men were created in God’s image was also stated to not apply to Negroes and a few other ethnic groups. Making a scar caustic statement in that if one interprets the Bible as saying homosexuals shouldn’t have rights, then maybe we should take away women’s rights and racial discrimination as those ideas were based on biblical interpretation as well
You are absolutely right is says so 1 Timothy 2:12
I support the AME’s stance and applaud their fortitude to take a firm position on this matter. I wish other Christian churches will take heed on this, and other social issues, and take a firm stance based on the bible alone.
Please don’t think I’m being biased toward any other sin (stealing, adultery, lying….). It’s all the same in Gods eyes…
Which God? Define Him? Or is it a Her? Who is s/he? Oh wait, a figment of somebody’s imagination based on a book which people rely on to make sense out of things they can’t make sense of? Is the christian God you speak of more important or better than the Muslim one? According to the Muslims, it’s God will that all woman should be stoned to death if they are raped, and showing your hair or other body parts in public might be worthy of death. The hypocrisy of religion astounds me. 75 years ago, there were many whites using the bible to defend their racist beliefs – even citing quotes from teh bible about how to treat your slaves. Imagine!! in 100 years from now, your grandchildren will be horrified at how their grandparents actually defended excluding a class of people from having rights because of their sexual orientation and they will be ashamed of you. THINK ABOUT IT!!
Sun God cult rubbish! Watch the first 20 minutes of Zeitgeist, the movie and take the scales away from your eyes.
LOL! Do you watch Ancient Aliens as well? The Fourth Kind? Prometheus? Because according to your logic, that disinformation snooze fest that you’re referring to (as if it were YOUR gospel) has been debunked as BS.
#TRYAGAIN.
…of course it has, zealot.
Having thought about your response a bit further – you clearly have not seen the Zeitgeist movie and I’m guessing have no idea what it is about. Out of the two of us, I suspect you are the most likely to believe in ancient aliens and the fourth kind… after all you seem to believe in some guy who can walk on water and perform miracles. I don’t know of any other humans who can do this. Maybe he was an alien too… wooooh! On the other hand I’m just asking you to take a dose of reality and accept that you have been duped by religious con artists into handing over your money to a Sun worshiping cult. Wake up and smell the roses friend.
Sad that a book of fiction can turn people to hate their fellow man.
No. It’s God’s word. Honest it is!!
And for the Christians, did not Christ accept people who were different??
Using religion as an excuse for bigotry!!
I agree. Christ accepted prostitutes, adulterers, you name it He loves them!
Indeed he loved them, but let’s be clear, He in no way condoned their actions. My comment is not in support or against the ammendment but merely that if you are going to use the Word of God to support or negate something, you should at least reference it correctly.
This.
Oh right. Can we discriminate against adulterers then? Deny them jobs, and don’t rent houses to them. And single mothers too. No jobs for them. And anyone that has ever worked on the sabbath, or eaten pork. From now on, we don’t have to offer jobs to any one of them. We can just turn them down, because they broke a rule in a book of fiction.
I agree
“AME full of closed-minded bigots”. Hardly headline news is it.
We are all equal under God’s eyes. Every single one of us.
What is destroying the fabric of Bermuda’s society is most certainly NOT ones sexual preference.
Here we go….
Wonder if the AME Church will come out in opposition to Gambling (when we get there)?
I find it funny how the church can chose one “abomination” from the bible and say that it’s wrong, whilst ignoring others…
I personally am all for changing the act and giving protection to everyone or, maybe we should remove religion from the act.
yeah well we oppose church members (here and around the world) touching little boys…but that didnt stop you
How is it right for the church to pass judgements on someone elses life? Doesnt the bible say Judge not! He who is without sin cast the first stone? Secondly people are born with both male and female body parts… so couldnt it be that some ppl are born in the wrong body.. in the koran their is a passage talking of people in the wrong body and its ok if they get an operation to be their true selves.. I myself am homophobic but im not ignorant! Up to de times Bermuda pls!
The first thing you need to learn about religious zealouts is that only SOME of the commandments from their bible apply at any given time: A few examples from Leviticus alone:
In Leviticus 19:28 tattoos are prohibited yet they are not proclaimed as sinful by the Christian church.
19:19 forbids crossbreeding of livestock yet the church allows, farmers who do this very thing to worship in church.
19:19 forbids sowing a field with mixed feed, yet farmers are not condemned who plant hay and alfalfa.
11:7 forbids the eating of pigs, yet people unashamedly have a side of bacon with their eggs!
11:6 forbids the eating of rabbits (hares) because they don’t have cloven hooves but they chew cud, yet some Christians love to eat rabbit.
11:9-10 forbids the eating of any seafood that doesn’t have fins and scales, yet shrimp and lobster lovers are not told to repent by Christians. I know plenty of Christians who eat at Red Lobster!
23:3 instructs that the seventh day of the week is to be the Sabbath, not Sunday, yet the Christian church disregards this.
Also, 18:8 and 18:18 show that polygamy is allowed yet this is now considered immoral amongst most Christian followers.
I could go on…
Just to clarify, the laws of Leviticus were given to the Jews…so I’m not sure the relevance to your referring to Christians who do not live under the law but rather by Grace.
Oh really. So can you pick little bits out of bible to obey, and other bits to ignore, at your convenience? Only I thought you lot said the bible was written by God, and you have to obey every last word in it. You changed your mind about that did you?
Jesus was a Jew, and so many Christian cite Leviticus to justify homosexual discrimination. Pick and choose hypocrisy. One does not need Christianity to be a good person, just to observe equal rights to others.
Apparently in the bible it says women must receive instruction silently and under complete control. They have to be quiet and must have no authority over a man. I can’t wait to tell this to LaVerne.
Yeah – I remember well Jesus stating that it is fine to condemn our fellow men to discrimination – just like the time that the Pharisees brought in the woman for stoning due to her adultery – I seem to remember him saying “Go right ahead and stone her”. NOT!!! The message of Jesus is exactly opposed to discriminating against our fellow men. He had dinner with tax collectors and sinners – it’s time we followed suit.
The lunch rally is actually at 12:15pm. Wear purple
The Facebook Event: http://www.facebook.com/events/149094931944055/?fref=ts
Well me and my mother have been having a healthy sexual relationship for 6 years and I don’t care what nobody says we are two consenting adults. Love is what matters. I personally know of a handful of incest couples who would like to be married legally and afforded all rights under the two words and a comma amendment including myself and mom. There are more too, so joy to the world, we are coming out.
I don’t know why other lgbt groups have distanced themselves from us because they should be fighting for the rights of ALL sexual orientations but they discriminate against us yet claim that they are discriminated against by the wider society. They are pure bigots! Please include incest on your platform. It should be LGBTI. And for you all’s information, incest is nothing like bestiality or paedophilia or rape etc. because all those involve non-consent. A sister and sister or sister and brother can love just like anyone else. Aren’t we all sisters and brothers as humans ANYWAY? That is what the good book teaches. We are ADULTS so we do not condone incest between an adult and a child, that’s just sick. But two words and a comma includes us so get it right. Joy to the world.
A%$^ole, being gay isn’t illegal. Incest is. See a difference? Probably not… If you want to table a bill for the legalization of incest by all means go ahead and do so. But today is about the equalizing of rights for LGBT people. So stop trying to muddy the waters.
Being gay used to be illegal. So are you saying it should have stayed that way? Gay marriage is ALSO illegal, so are you saying it should stay that way? BIGOT! Why are you trying to change the law if you believe the law shouldn’t be changed? What a confused hater you are!
And who are you to say that equal rights are for some people today and others some other day? Stop trying to distance yourself from us. We are all in this together. Incest may be illegal but the two words and a comma amendment solves that. Two birds with one stone!
Don’t hate we are LGBTQI standing firm.
Joy to the world!
Butttttttt….being gay is not illegal today. So what your point is?! This debate is on equal rights for LGBT people. It isn’t (yet) about marriage – although imo it should be equal rights across the board – it is about not being able to discriminate against people because of their sexual orientation. Being attracted to your mother/father is not a sexual orientation… it therefore has no place in this debate. Don’t obfuscate mate. Even if yo momma is sexy
@Family Matters: ARE YOU WRITING IN FROM TIM-BUK-2??? OR SOME COUNTRY THAT RAN A STORY LIKE THIS ON FACEBOOK?
I KNOW THIS ISN’T HAPPENING IN BERMUDA!
PLS SAY IT ISN’T SO…
>>SICK TO MY STOMACH!
If I am sexually oriented to family members it is my sexual orientation and no amount of bigotry or stigmatisation can change that. You are discriminating against me yet you claim to be against discrimination so it seems we have discovered another closet you are coming out of. You discriminate as well.
sex·u·al or·i·en·ta·tion = A person’s sexual identity in relation to the gender to which they are attracted; the fact of being heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual.
Your momma aint a gender.
You are only trying to ruffle feathers and doing a pretty piss-poor job at it. Nowhere have I discriminated against you… and even if I had, what’s ya point? You can’t do a damn thing about it thanks to our (soon to be updated) law… V+LF bwahahaha
The only thing your narrow dictionary definition would achieve is to highlight the underrepresentation of other forms of sexual orientation. Neither you nor the hierarchy of intellectuals get to define what my orientation is and there isn’t a damn thing you can do about THAT!
That’s the same as using your own religion to define what a family is. We have to look beyond your inadequate academic sources to define human experience and human identity which cannot be done by playing semantics. Equality means I also have the right to define my sexuality and my orientation. So frankly, fv©k ¥0U
Ok, first I thought you were trying to ruffle some feathers to make a point/get a reaction, but not even a troll would go this deep so I’m now guessing you’re serious. Firstly I believe everybody has the right to pursue happiness in their own way as long as it does not hurt anyone else. You want to talk about rights but what rights are afforded to a disfigured child born as a result of incest? The right to a lifetime of ridicule from their peers because their parents couldn’t be like normal people and have a relationship outside of their gene pool? Because they’re born physically or mentally different from other children due to the selfish disgusting nature of their parents? You say yourself and your mother were in seperate countries until well into your adulthood. I would say you missed out on a vital part of life by not having a nurturing mother around. Throughout your life you have seen other people interact with their mothers and you crave this same attention and nurturing that you have missed all your life. Now having a relationship with your mother this void in your life is filled, so to you this all seems right but to society it is not so you come on here and attempt to justify your psycotic disposition by comparing it to homsexuality. Sorry if you find my opinion offensive but I’m sure mommy will change your diaper, give you your beaky and you’ll forget all about it you sick twisted POS.
I could apply everything you said to a gay lifestyle. “Children adopted by gays will be subjected to ridicule and a man is reaching out for a mans love because he didn’t have hoods fathers love (or a little too much of it) etc.” You could basically substitute incest for gay in your whole comment and you wouldn’t sound out of place as anti gay.
Gays don’t createddisfigured children and I do believe its a sub conscious/psychologicalIssue
… 8| … well now, that is certainly a different point of view.
Did I just read this correctly? You and your mother have relations? I just need clarification…
truth
Well according to the bible incest is acceptable. How else did we get to over 7 billion people from 2? Who did Adam and eve’s children mate with. It would have had to have been a sibling or a parent. If we stick to the bible incest is acceptable. As is owning slaves and murdering adulterers with stones.
Ummmm, what??!
GIRL YOU ARE SICK!!! AIN’T NOBODY GOT TIME FOR THAT. You really think that having a sexual relationship with your mother is normal. You need frickin therapy!! and you want someone to include it in their platform. Do yourself a favour and go seek counselling, maybe they will prescribe meds cause clearly you are not well in the Head……INCEST IS SICKENING…YOU AND YOUR MOTHER NEED A CUT A#S!!
Funny that’s the same thing people say about homosexuals but you would disagree with them. Why? Seems this isn’t really about equality as much as it’s about attaining the right to pass discrimination onto another group. We are ILGBTQ standing firm together. Joy to the world!
Take the two words with the comma and go hang yourself and your mama!! I can’t believe that you think incest between an adult and a child is sick but what you and your mother is doing is just fine because you are both adults. Could neither of you find a man so you just settled with each other. Your comments are disturbing and I pray that you don’t have a daughter cause you might just love her too much and think she should be your boo too!! Again I say this is sickening!!!
Was your mom sexually abusing you as a child? That should be the main concern here. Love who you love but if you as a daughter was taught that it is okay to have a sexual relationship with your mother, that can only be taught during your childhood, and if that is the case, your mom to go to jail, and you need counseling. Your mind, body and soul needs a reprogramming. She and you need to be off the street. Just saying!!!!!!!!!
I wasn’t raised by my mom. We lived in different countries until I was well into adulthood. So trying to paint my mom as somehow accountably superior to me just doesn’t apply. Besides, you can’t punish a parent for the values they instil in their children as long as there is no abuse. Furthermore this isn’t about my unique narrative alone. Incest takes many forms not just parent and offspring and can even be homo-incestual. We are many and many of us belong to the other groupings as well such a gay, bi, transgender etc. Get prepared to either accept ALL of us ILGBTQ or get prepared to fight ALL of us. Like it or not, you can’t have the lions without the jungle and vice versa.
Joy to the world
BERNEWS… You need to do a story on the “Family Matters” Story… cause I am more interested in what they are saying then the story that is posted. My mind is completely BLOWN.
CO-SIGN!!
@bosslady and @co-sign…you guys really want to hear more about this sick ish…It made me sick to my stomach. She has nerve to sign under ‘family matters’. I just don’t know what the world is coming to
You can’t tell they’re joking? Honestly? They’re attempting to make an argument as to why we should discriminate against LGBTs… FFS, it happens every time we have a debate on this topic!
I was wondering when they would stop feeding the troll lol
So not only do we not deserve the same rights, but when you can’t deliver a sound reason why your discrimination against Incest couples is warranted, you deny our existence. So now were just ‘joking’, ‘trying to ruffle feathers’ etc? Your inability to extend equal rights to us leads you to believe that somehow our existence is an attempt to harm the cause??? I’d rather you hate me than deny my existence.
Um. If they’re in the same family, they’re already afforded those rights.
Incest isn’t an orientation.
You’re digging deep in order to find an excuse to hate and, quite frankly, it’s disgusting.
What framework of reference are you putting forth as an authority on what a sexual orientation is or is not? And are you not just playing semantics and pontificating? Isn’t that the very same thing ass defining what religion is or what masculinity is based on some hierarchy of patriarchal authorities? Are you not attempting to usurp my right to define who and what I am by claiming some power and authority to define human experience within quantitative and scientific paradigms? You are the one defending your right to hate here. I find it utterly appalling. We deserve recognition
What is your definition of marriage?
This is just nonsensical ramblings attempting to throw words back in people’s faces, saying nothing.
Pathetic troll is pathetic.
What a medieval point of view. It’s 2013.
Why do they care? How does it affect them? If they are so headstrong in their faith in a magical sky wizard, that’s fine, but why do they care if the rest of society moves forward?
“The AME Church opposes legislation that threatens the traditional family structure and erodes Bermuda society as a whole. This amendment does both.”
How exactly will the traditional family structure be threatened? Are you worried that you’ll catch gayness? Morons.
I’m wondering if they oppose the legislation that allows for divorce, which, by definition, threatens the traditional family structure!
Do they kick people out of their church if they get divorced?
Do they kick single parents out as well? No traditional family values there.
I guess, according to Christians, we can discriminate freely aginst single parents, and children born out of wedlock. We don’t have to give single parents a fair shot at a job, because they aren’t traditional families.
Jesus had two daddies… just saying
Seems as though the Church is lumping together two seperate issues. This proposal is for the fair and equal treatment under the law i.e. to not be discriminated against in a general sense because of something beyond your control. How the Church can then take this important issue and pervert it to mean that gay couples will be having sex in the street and marrying tomorrow and corrupting the minds of children is pretty sick. There was a time when being born poor, black, a woman etc meant that legally the state could mistreat you and withold rights… I would hope that of all ppl the Church can see beyond their fear and want equality for all.
I fail to see why a weird anthropomorphising Sun cult’s opinion should have any bearing on the protection of a person’s rights… why is this even considered relevant news?
BINGO
“Since the Bible is clear that a relationship involving sexual intimacy is to be between a man and a woman within the bounds of marriage, legislation that endorses homosexuality violates God’s Word and gives up a Christian’s conscientious obligation to obey it.”
You need to realize that not every one on this island follows the beliefs of Christianity. There are many religions out there and I am pretty sure religion, which is a choice people make, as opposed to sexual orientation, which people are born with, is protected from discrimination. That said, the island’s laws don’t have to outlaw everything considered an abomination in the bible (see: shellfish, lobster, pork, bacon, women speaking without being given permission, etc…). That is why the concept of seperation of state/government and church exists. Otherwise you could have a bunch of zealots pushing ammendments based on their closed-minded beliefs. If someone strongly believes homosexuals are against the word of god then they don’t have to “lay with another man”. Are you saying that clothing of mixed fabrics, shellfish, pork, bacon, women speaking without permission should all be made illegal. Are you saying you would like a new law to be made permitting murder by stoning to be allowed as long as the person cheated on his/her wife/girlfriend/boyfriend/husband.
I am not gay but I respect the inherent rights of those who are even if they are not legally protected from discrimination.
“The AME Church believes that all people are made in God’s image, including those affected by same sex attraction. The Church will defend human dignity because of the Church’s commitment to godly principles.
“However, the AME Church unapologetically resists this amendment and appeals to those of like-mind to do the same.”
One more thing, as part of your faith I am pretty sure you have no right to judge others as I am pretty sure only your “God” can do this. So you aren’t allowed to discriminate against homosexuals according to your precious book. So according to you homosexuality is a sin according to the “bible”, but by the same book so is judging others. Essentially your bible says you can’t be gay, but you can’t judge/discriminate against those who are either. So the law does not go against the bible, it complements it.
The worse form of bigotry is that which resides within us under the flag of ‘religion’. But we are a land of free speech and it is unfortunate there is not an equal level of tolerance to accompany it.
Dear anyone who opposes gay rights and think being homosexual is a choice. When did you choose to be straight?
@Gay and Proud
lol. Nice. I totally agree with you.
I have been heterosexual all my life I was born that way it wasn’t a choice I made. Just like (assuming your alias is correct) you were born homosexual.
The whole choice thing is a moot topic, really (although, I agree with your post), as religion is protected under the HRA and that is absolutely a choice! So it doesn’t matter if it’s a choice or not (it’s not), ‘cuz things that are choices are already protected.
The only time I care about a person’s sexual orientation is if I’m considering having sex with them. Otherwise, why would I care?
Quite!
The bible tells us that when Jesus healed people (I.e. when he saved the adultress from being stoned) he told her and many others to “sin no more” and that they are “forgiven”. He not only heals us, he forgives and accepts us into His own. Our righteousness is as filthy rags – but He will make us white as snow. He promised us that. Jesus did not perpetuate sin. He forgave sin and encourages us to this day to sin no more.
Homosexuality is a sin – it is one of the many we choose to perpetuate. No man can “not sin” on their own…we all need Jesus. We have a need for a relationship with our Creator. So, I will say no more – I too need to look at myself and give my life over to Christ… May His will be done in our lives and in our country.
One can make it against the law to discriminate based on sexual preference – but that is a triumph on Earth. What about eternal salvation? What does it profit a man to gain the entire world and its comforts and loose his soul? I too ask myself this question…
Why are you quoting a book based on the mythology of a Sun God cult! Shall I start quoting “The Iliad” or perhaps “Alice in Wonderland” at you!?! What rubbish!
It may be a sin to you, but it’s not a sin to everyone.
Why do your views on it override theirs?
It’s a sin to have children out of wedlock, according to the book of fiction you believe in. Can we discriminate freely against single parents too? What about people who are religeous nuts…can I discriminate aginst them as well?
Church and state should be separated PERIOD. The AME church’s view and opinion, and any others for that matter, is just that.. an opinion and you know what they say about those. What the church, which is basically a glorified “club”, thinks should happen is great for their “club” but it should in no way be used to lay out laws for a land of many faiths. Law should be based on something other than religious beliefs. Humans use only passages in which they feel get their message out. They are not using the entire book but only the pieces that help their cause and continue the pursecution from centuries ago. Also AME church members you really need to start wrapping your brain around the idea that had there never been the thought to change things that were not right, most of your members would not be entitled to freedom PERIOD!
If your a religious person than why are you even bothered. Just because the law will be changed on earth doesn’t mean St Peter is going to be like “well I guess if its ok on earth I’ll let you in”. That gate will be chained shut when they roll up
I don’t get involved in politics. So the church shouldn’t either. People of the AME can believe me and others can go their own way… I forgive.
The AME Church and it’s members are perfectly entitled to their views as long as they remain within inside their Churches. As for the Gay and Lesbian Community, they are perfectly entitled to the same rights as everybody else within society, no more, no less. Which leads me to my question: I personally feel our language and vocabulary has not kept pace with the social changes around us – for instance, there are some very obvious differences between Heterosexual Marriage and Gay Marriage (procreation for one), surely we need new words to note whether a marriage is straight, gay or lesbian. Also, I would invite the Gay and Lesbian community to take a greater role in defending the rights of transsexuals as it appears this is an area that has been sadly overlooked.
Nope. Not at all.
Straight folks don’t always procreate.
Should we make a new word for post-menopausal women and sterile men’s marriages?
Procreation isn’t a stipulation for marriage now for straight folks. Why should it be for gay folks?
Yes, married straight couples do not always procreate – but they almost certainly always do the act that results in procreation with the same biological drive and purpose, (conscious and unconsciously) – and in those exceedingly rare cases in which this does not occur, that is grounds for annulment both civil and in front of God. Furthermore, across cultures, marriage apart from all it represents about the relationship between two individuals is historically and remains about the family, i.e children, or in biological terms the joining of the two gene pools to keep both going beyond the natural life of the couple. This latter by definition is impossible between gay couples and therefore my remark that our vocabulary is lacking – unless we wish to bastardize the existing language to suit the flavor of the moment…
This is completely incorrect.
Not only is marriage without procreation not “exceedingly rare”, marriage without sex – or “the act that results in procreation” isn’t uncommon.
But all of that is moot, as the point is that the original post posited that procreation was a stipulation of marriage. It, very obviously, isn’t.
And how far back do you want to go with the “historic” definition of marriage? Because you’re making things up based on assumptions if you think that is what marriage represents “across cultures”. Marriage is also, traditionally, a joining of families for financial or class reasons. It has also been – “across cultures” – between a man and his brother’s widow – Genesis 38:6-10 (A widow who had not given birth to a son was required to marry her brother in law. Wife was expected to submit sexually.), a man and his wives, and concubine (King Solomon, who had 300 wives, many were concubines), a rapist and his victim – Deuteronomy 22:28-29 (a virgin who was raped must marry her rapist, and the rapist had to pay 50 shekels of silver for property loss.), a man, a woman, and her property – Genesis 16 (if a woman owns female slaves, they become husbands wives.), a male Soldier and prisoner of war – Numbers 31:1-18, Deuteronomy 21:11-14 (Under the command of Moses, Israelis killed everyone but virgin girls, who were taken as spoils of war. Wives were expected to submit sexually.)
The “language”, with regards to the word “marriage” has been bastardized throughout time.
What you’re advocating is “separate but equal”, and that is just wrong.
Mike, are you seriously suggesting that there are no differences whatsoever between straight and gay marriages?
My point is that our common usage has not kept pace to reflect this and therefore some new words to note the differences would be useful. Your own argument is in serious danger of becoming as doctrinaire as that of the AME church or for that matter a few of the most radical Femdom and Gay organisations. As always, the extremes of neither side seem interested in considered and reasonable discussion nor in answering honest and legitimate questions.
Just for the record, I reiterate that I’m all for marriage – be it straight, gay, lesbian, trans, etc.
Yes. I am.
Marriage is marriage. There is no need to redefine.
And as for your claim that “neither side seem interested in considered and reasonable discussion nor in answering honest and legitimate questions”?
That is incorrect. You are trying to create a false equivalence.
Mike, you conveniently left out the word “extremes” and therefore completely altered the meaning and context of my words that you quote. But enough said.
I didn’t leave it out. It’s a salient point with regards to your creation of false equivalence.
You refer to the extremes because they are, almost by definition, intransigent.
What you leave out is that the extremes of one side are, by far, the vast minority and on the other the majority.
But that doesn’t work in your theory, does it?
Ah, well.
And I notice that YOU conveniently ignored me saying “Marriage is marriage. There’s no need to redefine.”
I wonder why.
Perhaps you could tell us what the differences are that are the reason it should be redefined.
Please make sure that those differences aren’t already occurring in marriages now…
For example, at the moment procreation isn’t a stipulation for marriage, nor is vaginal sex.
The comment at Family Matters May 17, 2013 at 8:35 am says it all.
Whilst the focus is on same sex, where do we draw the line. Should we discriminate against incest?
Remember also that religious leaders do have a right to express an opinion on any relevant matters. Did anyone complain when the Chamber recently stated that we need to ‘change our laws’ to allow alcohol consumption at harbour nights when they were undoubtedly expressing a view based only on potential profits?
Yes they do, and I have the right to work tirelessly to discredit and treat them with ridicule the utter contempt they deserve.
And no, this isn’t about sex and it’s not analogous to incest. That’s a straw,an argument and you know it.
One orientation need not be “analogous” to another in order to extend equal rights. Is homosexuality “analogous” to heterosexuality? No!
Take your bigotry elsewhere! Incest is unique but aren’t we all?
The AME church judging these people and is saying that gays & lesbians shouldn’t have the same human rights as the rest of us.
Judging people goes against the Bible – Matthew 7 vs 1 & 2
While the AME have the floor, can they please also loby for admendments to the act to put women back in their place…many thanks.
New International Version (©2011)
Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says.
New Living Translation (©2007)
Women should be silent during the church meetings. It is not proper for them to speak. They should be submissive, just as the law says.
English Standard Version (©2001)
the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says.
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
the women should be silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak, but should be submissive, as the law also says.
International Standard Version (©2012)
the women must keep silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak out, but must place themselves in submission, as the oral law also says.
NET Bible (©2006)
the women should be silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak. Rather, let them be in submission, as in fact the law says.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
Let your women be silent in the assemblies, for they are not allowed to speak, but to be in subjection, just as The Written Law also says.
Kraken,
The Presiding Elder of the AME Church is a WOMAN!!
Perhaps she should comment on this apparent violation of the good book.
AMEN… hypocrisy at its finest!
She wouldn’t. What could she possibly say …”Oh well that’s different”
People like to quote the bible and follow its principles when it doesn’t apply to them. We need to stop using the bible to shun, and look down on other people. I’m no rocket scientist but I’m sure that was not its purpose. If your gonna follow the bible, follow ALL of it, including the part that says we should leave the judging to God.
AMEN!
dirty euorpean ways,
they are famous for homosexualty
for hundreds of years, they spread this sickness
like they spread themselfs through the world,
just like a virus
I am a Christian woman living in America…I am embarresed by this. So what the “Bermuda” church is saying is….because you are gay that it is totally legal for people to discriminate against you based on your sexuality!!! Where did these ministers come from?????? Ok yes, we feel that the “act” is a sin but how DARE we say it is okay for gay people to be discriminated against. That’s not very Christian!!!!!!! I do not agree with the Act but I have nothing but love for God’s people and that includes Gays. Let God be the judge not us.That’s being a good christian! Love everyone…that doesn’t mean I agree with your loife style but I love you anyway! The Bermuda church is different!! Sad…very very sad!
the pastors did not say that, that is how the press worded it,,making it seem like they said that ,,, i was there they did not,,,come on you know the dirty media
What did he say, then?
That is right. We may not agree but i will not force my ideas on you and nor should you do the same unto me.
but every man has a right to decide his own destiny, good or bad
You men and women are beautiful people who have been wonderously made. You are not gay. You have made a choice. We can all make choices, but we are also disciplined. Our society needs to stop nurturing destructive behaviour and tell our men and women what they are – beautiful, wonderously made human beings.
Weed is not legal yet or are you on that white lady??
Gods word is true. Just look at nature you don’t see animals pairing up the there same sex and meting. Even they know that they have to fined a female if male or male if female the same with plants. How are you as a person liking the same sex going to procreate? The bible says its an abomination to him. All i have to say look at nature. Thiers going to be someone saying i see dogs going after other male dogs. Yes an that is true but they do it to show really whos in charge not for sexual pleasure.
LMAO! I could hardly read that…
You have some animals that are the same sex and switch between sex so yes the animals have been doing it and still do.
Do some research, then come back and see if you still think that’s true.
Seriously. Go do ANY sort of research into this… anything at all.
Oh how true… nice one Mike.
why do they push for this so much,,think about it
Who cares the church has no power anymore. What they say is utter rubbish they should all go live on their own island…
— out badmind n sodomite!! str888
It is time for the church leaders to stop the photo ops and have a series of meetings behind closed doors. They need to present a united front on all important issues!
They should not cherry pick the biblical laws which support their own beliefs and ignore the others.
Hell, some of the pastors in the grand production on City Hall steps, would not allow others to preach in each others churches.
Would an Adventist preach in a Roman Catholic church or vice versa?
When you sort yourselves out let us know!
Adventists think that Catholics are devils…and everyone that worships on Sunday is going to hell, one of them told me this.
cause sunday is the wrong day
according to the adventists. and Jesus is the wrong prophet according to islam and mohammed is the wrond prophet according to the christians. People choose their religion but not their sexual orientation
didn’t realize God only wanted our worship one day a week…would have thought that Christians should been always worshiping God through their everyday lives.
Church and State are two separate issues. What you are trying to protect has already been abused, destroyed and made unclean by the so-called traditional family structure. Let us be clear, legislation and GODs word do not go hand in hand. Therefore, what you are suggesting is that it is ok for you to push your beliefs and ideas down people throats and we should be ok with it. However, when the government tries to force legislation on the church you do not like it. So remove yourself from your glass house and open your mind and your heart as a so-called Christian that you claim to be and give acceptance, and learn to agree to disagree and not force any group, race or person to believe and conform to your way of life or thinking.
“Judge not and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven” Luke 6:38 ESV
“Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not doer of the law but a judge. There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your” James 4:11-12 ESV
“Let no corrupting talk come of your mouth, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear” Ephesians 4:29 ESV
AMEN!!!!!
Come knocking on my door with your uncivilzed snake-oil bible nonsense and receive dog bites. Stay away and take your homophobic poison elsewhere.
There are a lot of anti-church, anti-religious comments on this topic. I am not a religious person and if it were up to me I would have those institutions dismantled, but at the same time I will stand for their right to their beliefs and their right to defend what they believe. They are not speaking to the people on this blog, they are speaking to their congregation who also have the right to vote according to their beliefs as do all of you. I support the right of every individual to choose who they are and who their partners will be. They are human and are therefore
entitled to the protection that other humans enjoy. Each of us have the right of choice and we all experience the consequences of those choices. This is natural law.
People also have the right to speak out against the church.
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
“Jesus” is an astrological allegory representing the Sun during the age of Pisces and the “commandments” you mention were recycled by Christian con men from the Egyptian mythologies. Your beliefs and quotes are fabrications based on nothing but older more ancient bull**it!
let them be,,, they cant justify their actions
anyway,,,i teach my kids to love every one as they love themselves,,
but reconize sin,, and those in power who push these sins,
Is there an AME sanctioned bible that I can acquire?
One printed on really soft paper. I’ll leave it in the bathroom.
Love it!
the problem with religion is that they took out the spirituality and replaced it with power,,all these churches are fake,,religion should not be organized groups, thats almost promotes slavery,
there are lots of lost sheep in this island
Quite!
I find it funny how the church is trying to prevent a group of people from their rights. Lord help us if someone in that church had their rights taken, they’d kick up and everything else. This is the 21st century, not the middle ages where the church ruled all. The church has next to no influence on the majority of society now a days so they need to stay quiet.
church and state need to stay separate! stay outta political affairs, you have no rightful place or say in this issue, catholic churches promote homosexuality! all the alter boys whom have been molested over millenia, so god allows his priest to molest boys? homosexuality has been around longer than religion! its sad to see people discriminated for there beliefs, some animals are gay so what does the bible say about? so the gay animals are goin hell? they cant read the bible or follow your beliefs so we should discrimate against them aswell?
God gave all his people the right to life and choice. If God, who is omniscient, gave everyone the same rights, who are we as humans to decide which one of us gets what rights?
Furthermore, the same Bible who “condemns all homosexuals to eternal hell” is the same Bible that stated “all negroes should be slaves”. Who’s interpretation is correct? Especially since the interpretation about negroes was held to be truth for a few centuries. It’s gotta be right if it lasted that long right?
The AME church shocks me – damn hypocrites
Furthermore, if you want to condemn homosexuals, you’ve got to to condemn the following persons as well as they are going against direct commands of God:
1) Those who put other gods (i.e. self-appearance, prestige, societal standing, wealth) before God.
2) Those who make things (i.e. their houses, jobs, cars, wealth portfolios, church clothes) more important than God.
3) Those who use God’s name to sanctify things everyone knows he does not stand for.
4) Those who have practices not in line with God’s definition of worship.
5) Those who steal from their parents by fooling them into signing over property and funds before they pass away, and mistreating them or worse abandoning them.
6) Those who kill whether it be in the literal sense which the law takes care of, or in the figurative sense of those who mentally/verbally/physically/emotionally destroy others.
7) Those who sleep with someone other than their spouse.
8) Those who steal whether it be asking the church members for additional funds “for the church”, or charge higher rent/service fees than necessary knowing they don’t need the additional money, then show no mercy.
9) Those who lie and cheat to benefit themselves.
10) Those who are jealous of others’ achievements, and do all they can to cause their downfall.
While homosexuals, and heterosexuals for that matter, do fall into every one of those categories, NONE of the above address homosexuality specifically. So, give them their rights, and stop using the Bible to justify your mistreatment of beings God created!
It’s just ignorance. There’s nothing else to say about it. They were brought up following and believing in a barbaric fairy tale, and they know no better.
I don’t even know where to start with this absolutely RIDICULOUS b.s. I’m reading.
“The AME Church opposes legislation that threatens the traditional family structure and erodes Bermuda society as a whole. This amendment does both.”
-What family structure? You mean the one where mommy and/or daddy cheat on each other? Or how about when daddy drinks and hits his wife? I really like the one where the teen gets pregnant out of wedlock and the father ends up dead or in jail because of gang activity. Last time I checked, none of this was brought on by gay marriage and had anything to do with gay rights.
“Since the Bible is clear that a relationship involving sexual intimacy is to be between a man and a woman within the bounds of marriage, legislation that endorses homosexuality violates God’s Word and gives up a Christian’s conscientious obligation to obey it.
-Like someone stated earlier, the Bible says a lot. If you want to stick to the Bible word for word, you need to stick to all of it. So how about we set the clock back a few hundred years, and black folks go back to being slaves. Oh, and I hope all you dudes out there spilling your seed outside of the womb like the heat, cause you’re all gonna burn.
“The AME Church believes that all people are made in God’s image, including those affected by same sex attraction. The Church will defend human dignity because of the Church’s commitment to godly principles.
- Now this one really made me laugh. If God is real, and is truly infallible, then doesn’t that mean that homosexuals are part of his plan? But you know, lets not focus on that, let’s focus on a book written by MAN, who is fallible. Yeah, let’s do that.
“However, the AME Church unapologetically resists this amendment and appeals to those of like-mind to do the same.”
- Like mind? Oh you mean bigots? Homophobes? How about “last of a dying breed?”
I don’t even know why the media is giving these people the time of day. The church should have ZERO influence on government decisions. Governments were created to act outside of religious or ethnic bias. I know that unfortunately it is not always observed by those that serve, but there’s no way to avoid that.
The plain and simple of it is that the church is failing, it’s on it’s way out. It’s only a matter of time before they are gone and forgotten. The sooner we move away from following a fairy tale book, with so many versions and contradictions, the sooner society can move on to bigger and better things. The only thing religion succeeds at doing is creating war, hatred and holding everyone else back while simultaneously keeping us in the stone age.
Lest we forget:
The church perform weddings, not marriages.
And also, so does the registry office. No need to believe in mumbo jumbo to have a wedding.
That’s my point. The church has no real say over marriage, only weddings.
Yes, it’s a good point.
What’s the AME Church’s view on adultery, I wonder….
It’s not so much about the church wanting the ability to descriminate against gay people, as it is about them being against their government legalizing / normalizing what they consider sinful behavior. Love the sinner, hate the sin.
My personal stance? I am a Christian. I’m 100% against gay ‘marriage’ and the propagation of the homosexual lifestyle to the general public. Does that mean I don’t like / hate gay people or want to discriminate against them? NO. I’ve had gay / lesbian friends, I may not approve of their choices but alas it is my opinion and their life.
My question is who is lobbying for these changes? I’ve lived in the US, have some connects in the entertainment industry – and there is definitely a satanic, gay elite that pushes their agenda for nefarious purposes (mostly the breakdown of the family unit and disrupt moral social order, amongst other things). Bermuda is in the American sphere of influence, so I’m not surprised this non-issue is even an issue. Spiritual warfare and whatnot.
But I digress. Love the sinner, hate the sin. A nation cannot be Christian (or any other religion) any more than a piano or an airplane – only a person can be a Christian. Be in the world, not of it. While I am in agreeance with the church, I really don’t’ care at the end of the day. People will do what they want to do and the world will continue to be worldly – so fighting this is pointless, it will be passed eventually (along with the legalization of gay ‘marriage’). To the supporters of the ammendment – do what you gotta do. Christians – pray and leave it alone.
Peace
“The AME Church opposes legislation that threatens the traditional family structure and erodes Bermuda society as a whole. This amendment does both.”
BIEEEEE **** RIGHT OFF! I’ll tell you what destroys the family structure.
-Cheating husbands and wives IN THE AME CHURCH
-Divorce by people IN THE AME CHURCH
-AME CHURCH PARENTS who have kicked their kids out of the house for being homosexual
-Gang bangers’ OBLIVIOUS Parents IN THE AME CHURCH
-Teenage mothers who were raised overly-sheltered by bigots in the AME CHURCH
THE LIST GOES ON. Now I am a Christian, but that doesn’t mean I can force my views upon others. I wouldn’t like an atheist to force their views on me!But since the AME Church seems to study the Bible with such perfection, let me remind them of a few texts from the “good book.”
-Galatians 5:14 For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
-James 1:26 ESV :If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person’s religion is worthless.
The AME Church has many women leaders – women at one point could not vote or even speak without permission from a MAN.
Also Predominantly BLACK – that was once an “abomination” too.
THE NERVE.
LET HE WHO IS WITHOUT SIN CAST THE FIRST STONE.
Just to add on:
1 Corinthians 5:12-13 ESV
For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”
Clearly what the AME church is referring to is the eventually lead of this amendment to the fight for gay marriage. The HRA and gay marriage debate are two separate but not independent topics. BTW- all the issues you mention above are sin: adultery, divorce, not showing love…and yes practicing homosexuality is part of that list. None of these items should be condoned within the Church, none should be discriminated against either.
Can someone help me to understand how the people promoting and desiring this legistation have no tolerance for people who appose it…but you seek tolerance of your lifestyle choice. Those were some absolutely venomous post.
Also, there has been a rumoured gay premier, politicians, lawyers, doctors, construction workers, etc. Who is discriminating against gays? Gays own houses, cars, jobs, apartments, bikes, etc. Is there a percentage of gay persons homeless or not cared for simply because they are gay? where is the discrimination?
Look at the above statement by the AME Church. If you were to replace the word “homosexuals” with ‘black’, ‘christian’, ‘the disabled’, or any other group, I’m sure you’d be up in arms. Just because you may or may not agree with the lifestyle choice it doesn’t negate the fact that it’s discriminatory.
You’re right, Young Future Leader, except a person’s sexuality is not a lifestyle choice any more than race is.
The folks wanting this legislation aren’t looking to discriminate and the “venomous post”s are in response to folks “promoting and desiring” to be able to discriminate against a group of people.
And, regarding your last paragraph, replace “gay” with “black” and ask that last question.
We’re seeing, in these discussions about equal rights, people saying that they wouldn’t rent to a gay couple or, if they did, wouldn’t allow gay tenants to have sex. That’s discrimination.
Saying that they don’t deserve protection under the HRA? That’s discrimination.
Questioning whether there IS discrimination? That is itself discrimination.
Personally, I am completely indifferent as to what consenting adults get up to and how they wish to organise their households and affairs; these are purely private matters and should be accepted as such by any society.
Again personally, I find homosexuality completely incomprehensible. It strikes me as one, long, drawn out suicide note, the end result being the withdrawal of the individual’s biological line from the species. I find this incredibly sad for all concerned but nonetheless wish those who have followed this path happiness and all they aspire.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASF0rzfSvEc
The AME had better be careful or it could find itself being labelled a hate group.
People choose their sexual orientation the same as they choose their race. Discriminating on the basis of either is equally wrong. Same exact thing. Both are based on ignorant beliefs, not knowledge. Act on knowledge.
I seriously think that gays worldwide should unite and start a church in which their god says it is a sin NOT to be gay.
They will be then worshiping a religion and therefore cannot be discriminated against. The loophole of all loopholes!
Or, we could simply add two words and a comma to the Act. Even easier.
I agree 100%
Just trying to show how ridiculous the logic behind the church’s argument is – but you know that already