Ministry: Info Sessions On Same Sex Marriage

September 23, 2015

[Updated] The Ministry of Community, Culture and Sports has announced that public information sessions regarding same sex marriage will be held on Monday, 28 September and Thursday, 1 October.

“The public information sessions follow as a response to the petition that was presented to Government in May 2015,” the Ministry said.

“These sessions will focus on experiences in other jurisdictions and the current local situation as well as provide an opportunity for questions and answers.”

Video of the petition being presented in May 2015:

Community, Culture and Sports Minister Patricia Gordon-Pamplin said, “When I received the petition from Mr. Tony Brannon and supporters, I assured them that Government would take into consideration the proposed request allowing same sex marriage in Bermuda.

“The Department of Human Affairs has presented to Cabinet research regarding what other countries have enacted in legislation and what steps can be taken. At the public information sessions we plan on sharing what we’ve learned as well as give our citizens an opportunity to respond.”

Minister Gordon-Pamplin added, “We want to encourage community engagement and dialogue around the subject. It is important after reviewing the research about what other countries have done that we, in Bermuda, have frank and honest dialogue about same sex marriage.”

The information sessions will be held on Monday, 28 September at the Berkeley Institute and Thursday, 1 October at Bermuda College North Hall. The sessions begin at 6 p.m.

Update 8.03pm: In response, Tony Brannon — who started the petition — said, “It’s a start. Everyday we don’t make this happen is a day lost for human rights and tourism.”

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  1. kangoocar says:

    Why are we wasting our time on this??? Here is a suggestion, fix our Debt and union/plp problems first!!! after that, I don’t really care who marries who!!!

    • Ships Ahoy says:

      To you it might not seem like a big deal, to others that are wanting the same rights and freedoms as the rest of us, it is a huge deal and not a waste of time. I say let homosexuals, bisexuals, panasexuals and trisexuals get be married if they want. They deserve to be married and miserable just like the rest of us!

      • kangoocar says:

        I almost fell out of my chair laughing on that one

        • And just to think, the animals have a NATURAL instinct for it and we’re SUPPOSED to be more intelligent.

          • Anbu says:

            Oh shut mate. U have proven time and again that u are not intelligent. Leave them alone. Ever seen male dogs tryin to hump peoples legs? Instinct my a–!

      • Ash says:

        No such thing as trisexual though.

        • Time Shall Tell says:

          I think he means trysexual, they’ll “try” anything sexual…

          • Its definitely not excepted in the African Culture.

            • Rhonnie aka BlueFamiliar says:

              Uhm…

              Your statement as it is is quite accurate in that ‘excepted’ means ‘not included’ and not not included would be included.

              I do think you probably meant “not ‘accepted’”, which would be accurate in modern African culture, but not so historically speaking.

              Same-sex relationships, both physical and not, have been found to be fairly common through all cultures.

              • Was very common in Ancient Greek Culture.

                • john galt says:

                  so was raping little boys (sparta). the two seem to go hand in hand

                • Rhonnie aka BlueFamiliar says:

                  And Roman, and Egyptian, and …

                  • The Romans bought that S!@# to Egypt.

                    • Rhonnie aka Blue Familiar says:

                      Sorry, there are depictions of gay relationships in Egyptian artefacts dating well before the Roman’s got involved. Actually, well before the Romans, period.

                    • Build a Better Bermuda says:

                      Which came first, the Egyptian or the Roman… didn’t you accuse Europeans of ripping off Egyptian culture in another post?

            • Val Dickerson says:

              What rock are you living under!

            • bharat says:

              Yea… and they really got s**** sorted out over there.
              Everyone has food, no one’s genitalia is mutilated, religions are open and accepting, the economy is booming and people are so well educated.
              The rest of the world should really be asking themselves “What would african culture do?” before they make such important decisions.

            • navin johnson says:

              perhaps that is not the reason for the highest rate of AIDS in the world?

      • Hurricane says:

        In other words @ kangoocar,life in Bermuda isn’t all about you!

    • O'Brien says:

      The word ‘privilege’ is becoming overused — but you must recognize that your comment is a prime example of it. The only people who could refer to marriage equality as a ‘waste of time’ and profess that they don’t care ‘who marries who’ are those who already have the freedom to marry.

      The state dignifies a heterosexual relationship by allowing its participants to marry. It stigmatizes a homosexual relationship by excluding its participants from marriage. Can you not see why addressing this inequality is — at least for those in the second category — anything but a ‘waste of time’? And do you not recognize your own lack of empathy in describing it as such?

      • So how are they supposed to REPRODUCE?

        • O'Brien says:

          Since when is marriage restricted to those capable of reproduction?

          • Longtail says:

            And if a straight couple are too old to reproduce, they should not be married? Onion Juice your prejudices stink.

            • Their job is to teach the younger ones about Wisdom, Knowledge and Morality like they were taught.

              • Starting Point says:

                So your logic that marriage is needed for reproduction is an argument for fining and locking up single mothers, fathers as well? or is your logic based on your total ignorance?

                Just let us know so we can find a way to include you in society please.

                • Left Guard says:

                  @Starting Point. Don’t waste your time on Onion Juice. You can’t fix, stupid!

              • Great News! says:

                I am happy to see that we can be open-minded on this. Everyone deserves to be happy and it is my hope that LOVE will win!

                • john galt says:

                  excpt they cant, my wives are discriminated against and nobody will stand up for them and their “rights” they only worry about how they can mess with religious people by insisting on their “rites” and confusing them with “rights”. but those of us with multiple wives will always be actually discriminated against if we come out. The sodomites have a loud and vocal brainwashed community to support their ways. They usurped a religious symbol for a reminder of a flood. *(caused because people were all sorts of wicked) they protest around the world and attack those who have religious convictions in the courts whenever possible. They are proven time and time again to be selfish narrcisists with an agenda.

                  • Chris says:

                    the devils mo is to be everything exactly the opposite of God’s commands, a perversion, distortion and there for is a lie. Who is the prince of lies. Right no one believes in God anymore yet they want to be married with God’s blessing. Anyone else confused. see the trends or don’t at the end of the day they only wish to “do as thou wilt” if you know where the quote comes from you might want to find out.

                    LOL

                  • Earth watch police says:

                    Religions are steeped in treachery and bloodshed I believe in what I see the only religion should be earth worship as we would not exist if it wasn’t for the mother.

          • NO MORE WAR says:

            Since the beginning of the word marriage duh

        • alsys says:

          A lot of them reproduce the exact same way a straight married couple does so when one partner is infertile. In the world you would propose neither of those couple, straight or gay, would be allowed to marry.

        • Rhonnie aka BlueFamiliar says:

          I know a lot of people who shouldn’t be married if reproduction were mandatory for marriage.

          I also know a lot of people who shouldn’t be married if being in a formal religion were mandatory for marriage.

          Now, let’s also clear up the belief that marriage is a religious contract and therefore religions should have a say in who can and can’t be married.

          You can be married in the church, but not married legally, and if you choose that route you are not entitled to the benefits of being legally married. Bermuda has no common law marriage laws.

          Now, those who get married under the law, but not in the church, are entitled to all the benefits of being legally married.

          So… which version of marriage actually carries more weight in the world?

          Now that we’re clear on this, that religion has no place in a legal marriage, which is the mandatory part of marriage, how can we as a modern society deny anyone this practice simply because a certain sector of the community is horrified that a person loves and wants to commit their life to another person who happens to have the same genitalia?

        • Val Dickerson says:

          Last time I checked a lot of heterosexual couples are unable to reproduce for a number of reasons. Getting married at 60 for instance, should they not be allowed to marry because they can’t have children at that age. I’m sure you have heard of the term adoption. Many people do it even when they can reproduce naturally as you say. How does someone else’s marriage and relationship in any way effect you? It doesn’t and shouldn’t.

        • Earth watch police says:

          Not everyone should reproduce especially imbeciles.

    • keep it real says:

      I still don’t understand why we need to change the law for people sexual preferences…like seriously what if a pedophile says we are denying their rights as well. After all the “experts say they’re born that way”

      • Apples and Oranges says:

        Your rights end where another person’s nose begins. There are no victims if we allow same-sex marriage. There would be if we legalized inappropriate relationships with minors.

        • They are both an abomination.

          • Anbu says:

            According to some invisible man in the sky.

          • bharat says:

            please define the term “abomination” during the era when the scriptures you are referring to was written.
            languages are living and breathing, changing with every tongue that touches them and every mind that thinks about them.
            abomination then meant – not typical in the culture.

            also, maybe you should do some reading up on cognitive dissonance. my bet is you have a lot of it in your life. :)

          • Earth watch police says:

            That’s what you are LMFAO.

      • Ride says:

        @keep it real,

        First, understand that we are discussing a legal contract between consenting adults and that this contract does not infringe on any person’s human rights. However, denying these adults that contract on the basis of their genders does infringe on their rights.

        Second, understand that paedophilia has nothing to do with marriage equality for consenting adults. Do try and stay on topic. When you make wild statements as you have above you portray yourself a fool in this matter. To be clear, I’m not saying that you are a fool. But your statement definitely carries a fool’s hallmarks.

        Ride

      • Rhonnie aka BlueFamiliar says:

        Do the words ‘consenting adults’ mean anything to you?

      • john galt says:

        its already beginning. salon ran an article the other day about a pedophile basically telling people not to hate him, hes normal. across the world, especially in libtard europe people are marrying animals and one person even married a tree…. you will no that you live in the end of days when lies are considered truth and wrong is considered right. It is clear we are turning into a society where abnormal is being promoted as normal

        • Rhonnie aka BlueFamiliar says:

          Pretty certain that those aren’t legal marriages.

        • bharat says:

          So… what is abnormal?
          This is right?
          http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/boys-who-only-develop-penis-when-they-hit-age-12

          we shouldn’t accept them as people!!! ridiculous!!! an anomaly! ABOMINATIONS!!!

          So shall we discredit all of the thoughts and emotions we have that are not approved by society? Who are you to say what is normal??? If science, psychology and the study of biology have proven anything, it’s that there is no normal.

          Want to know what I consider “normal”, people being free and respected. people who have access to equal rights. people who have the ability to see beyond their own bias opinions and empathize with another human. people who can question the validity of a book written over a 1000 years ago between 40 authors and see how applying their own beliefs to someone elses existence is unfair and one of the core reasons for all the wars that EVER HAPPENED.
          considerate. kind. accepting. THAT IS NORMAL

    • Frustrated... says:

      We get too happy for small mercies….Human Rights shouldn’t be debated…if you think its the right thing to do, you do it… you don’t weight it against getting reelected…. So depending on which group screams the loudest..is the direction our govt will go.. Unacceptable…

    • Hmmm says:

      Well, we cannot fix our Debt without income, so maybe this will help offset the national debt by bringing increased tourism…

      • john galt says:

        i am less likely to go to a bar if i know gays are there. i am less likely to frequent a business if they are there regularly. While i personally dont care what they do at home in their bedroom, i do not want to be around them. increase tourism? i doubt it, i would rather go to a place where my kids wouldnt have to be subjected to mardi gras type crap. i am willing to bet there are a lot more like me out there then people realize.

        • Rhonnie aka BlueFamiliar says:

          Uhmmm… if that’s how you feel, I would suggest that you not frequent any bars or restaurants or businesses in Bermuda… or elsewhere … because gay people are frequenting them, probably daily. Heck they could be serving your drinks, cooking your food, or checking you out at a store.

          Don’t get on a bus, or walk on the street, or go to the hospital. Yep, gays frequent those places too… probably daily.

          Let’s see… oh yes, there’s also the gyms, and the beaches… the dentists… gas station…

          Oh heck… even churches, gay people frequent churches, better not go there either.

          Or your job.. probably there too.

          Do you see my point here? How silly what you’ve said sounds?

          I don’t even know what to do with the mardi gras type crap comment. Have you seen carnival?

          • john galt says:

            no what is silly is you think that a 1% of the population is everywhere at all times. what i am saying is if i have a choice to be around gays or not around gays, i choose not around them

            • Rhonnie aka BlueFamiliar says:

              I didn’t say they were everywhere at all times, my point is that everywhere that you go, gay people have been there. And will go there again.

              They could be there the same time you are. You simply can not know when they are there or not, so you’d best not go anywhere, just in case.

              I am curious, however, what happens if you substitute something else for gay, is what you’re saying still reasonable?

              You know… like if you were referring to white people instead of gay people… or if you were referring to black people… or maybe Jews… or Muslims… or Christians… or Canadians…

              And if you don’t understand what I’m saying there.. it’s simple.

              If you think it’s okay not to give basic rights to one minority, then you must think it’s okay not to give basic rights to other minorities.

              If minorities don’t deserve equal rights then shall we take away the rights of all the miniorities in Bermuda? Take away their right to get married, or to vote, or to own land.

              It’ll be okay, because someone somewhere doesn’t like what they do and doesn’t want their children to be around them.

            • serengeti says:

              No one’s saying you have to hang out with them.

          • Rhonnie aka BlueFamiliar says:

            I should clarify.
            By saying ‘checking you out’ I meant at the register.

        • bharat says:

          please research gay weddings before you go talking about something you have absolutely no knowledge on.
          your bias opinion is irrelevant and we don’t want to hang out with you anyway.
          by we, i meant most humans. because i’m not even gay and i can tell hanging out with you would make me want to hang myself off the nearest bridge.

    • john says:

      this is not what we elected the oba to do. a bunch of people being do gooders trying to force this on the rest of us…. we do not want it unless it is going to mean that govt no longer has any say in personal relationships whatsoever!

    • Cow Polly says:

      If same sex marriage is legalized then Bermuda could become the gay wedding destination of choice for thousands of gay couples, so in a way kangoor this is about fixing the debt

  2. Jahmani says:

    Lotta votes dude .

  3. The Dark Knight Returns says:

    If it were up to me I wouldn’t allow same sex marriage anywhere in this world.

    • Legalgal says:

      But it’s not….

      • Ash says:

        Thank goodness, if gay people aren’t allowed to marry then why is anyone allowed to marry? The way I see it is everyone is allowed to or no one is, you can’t have these special people because it’s stupid.

        • frank says:

          They can always go and. Live and get married. Some. Where else

          • serengeti says:

            You don’t really get the concept of what full stops are for, do you.

          • Build a Better Bermuda says:

            Why, they are Bermudians as well… some of them would even be by your narrowed definition of ‘birthright’ Bermudians… unless of course you now apply sexual orientation as being a requisite for being ‘birthright’ Bermudian. Why should a Bermudian have to go somewhere else to have equal rights simply because you live in the past and are intolerant.

    • BOB says:

      same

    • Unbelievable says:

      @The Dark Knight Returns……Remember that time waaaaay back in the 50s when the US Government led a crusade to ban comic books and Batman & Robin were thought to have been a secret gay couple?

      True story. Look it up.

    • Great News! says:

      The Great News is….It is not up to you!

    • Left Guard says:

      I hope your children, grandchildren and family don’t know how you feel. Chances are that one of them is Gay, even if they are not open about it. Think about how much it would hurt them to know that someone they love, hates them….for no reason.

      • You don’t hate the person, you hate the lifestyle.

        • Anbu says:

          U seem to have nothing but animosity towards gay people oj. I wonder. Are u really gay yourself? Having a rough time coming out? Its ok man jesus still loves u bro.

          • Hardly,cant even build myself up to take a prostate test.
            As a matter of fact dont make no difference to me, more women for me.
            LMFAO

            • PBanks says:

              That’s one way to look at it heh. As for the prostate thing, well sometimes you gotta do what ya gotta do. Your family will appreciate it.

            • Earth watch police says:

              I doubt you could even handle a real woman.

        • Rhonnie aka BlueFamiliar says:

          Lifestyle.

          Define the gay ‘lifestyle’ please.

    • BermyL says:

      would you also ban the practice of any other religion other than your own?

      • john galt says:

        the real question is would you force their mosque or church to conduct their “marriage rites” in direct contravention to their doctrine? would you force a business to hire them if the owner did not want them to represent his business? would you force people to violate their religious principles to push your (religion of sodomy) agenda

        • Rhonnie aka BlueFamiliar says:

          I would not force a religious group to perform services that are against their beliefs.

          Would I force a business to hire them? 1. How would the hiring person know they were gay? Are they going to be asking every applicant? 2. How does anyone’s sexual orientation affect how they do their job?

          • john galt says:

            are you being for real? if someone is acting overtly gay and you can immediately tell… do you think i should be forced to hire them, when that is not what i want my company to be represented by? its a simple yes or no answer

            • serengeti says:

              I don’t know. What if someone is overtly disabled, or overtly black, or overtly white, or overtly over 55 years old? Should an employer be forced to hire them?
              Simple answer. Yes or no.

              • john says:

                i cannot hire a disabled person because the job requires mobility and is quite dangerous and physical. we hire both black white asian and mixed people but one thing i can say is that we should not be forced to hirer anyone
                so short answer is no… anything that requires force is not well thought out

                • serengeti says:

                  So, no simple yes/no answer from you then.

                  But anyway, your position, from what you have said, is that if someone is overtly disabled, or overtly black, or overtly white, or overtly over 55 years old, or overtly gay, then an employer should be quite free to discriminate against them, if he doesn’t want that kind of person to represent the employer.

                  I thought we had moved on well past that type of thing years ago. Discrimination based on most of these criteria has been illegal for years.

            • Rhonnie aka Blue Familiar says:

              Sir, you may have what they call gaydar but I don’t, so I have no idea what you mean by ‘acting overtly gay’.

              • Rhonnie aka Blue Familiar says:

                But my yes or no answer would be yes, you should not be allowed to discriminate against a person because of their sexual orientation.

                Though now I find myself wondering if it’s legal to state ‘must be heterosexual’ in an employment advertisement.

                • john says:

                  no doubt if someone did write that the gaystapo would sue them to make an example and cow resistance

      • alsys says:

        (The problem with asking that question is the true answer from them would most likely be yes…)

  4. Dready says:

    Marry who you want?

    • Well then says:

      Bermudians are so hypocritical. I wonder how many people posting on this against gay marriage have cheated on their wives, had pre-marital sex, numerous partners or been divorced. As my poppa used to say: “Bermudians are only religious on a Sunday”.
      P.s. A true Christian knows that no sin is greater than the other. That being said; some of you might want to have a good look at yourselves in the mirror before you judge others for their life choices.

      • Mr. Orange says:

        Well said well Well Then – but a true Christian knows that the Father and Jesus said that a marriage is between man and woman…so please stop using Christianity as your crutch for pointing juxtaposing the moral flaws “Christians” and non Christians alike have
        And before someone attacks Christianity – I dislike that word because it is made up after the death of Christ by the practitioners of religious Dogma – “the church” – Jesus was the ultimate forgiver of sins and the beacon for tolerance – unlike the pharisees and scribes of the day – our modern day church and government as it were – but this forgiveness only came when one was repentant of their sins. If this issue of gay marriage and homosexuality was truly righteous if would never have the fervor surrounding it that we see – it would be as natural as the rising of the Sun.

        People like Brannon work so hard to be “accepted” and “equal” – and you have to wonder why? I think it that subconsciously he know he is defying the very material make up of our existence. Supporters of the genetic debate – the ones who say “even animals have been observed to be homosexual” – are in fact pointing out the exception to the rule. And these Homosexual animals will not reproduce – their line ends – unlike modern man who can now use fertilization techniques or adoption as a way to attain what nature would very rightly refuse them.

        I say render unto Caesar what is his. If it is the will of this group to defy the Word then so be it. I will not be casting the stones. I hope and pray for them just as I do myself that come Judgement day the decisions we have made in this life were the right ones.

        In the coming months we will have far greater issues to deal with than who marries who…

        • Mr. Orange says:

          Some obvious grammatical errors – please do forgive me… :)

        • Build a Better Bermuda says:

          Have you ever asked why homosexuality was forbade by the church… do you honestly think it was handed down by God? It’s a numbers game, back in the beginnings of any religion it was always a numbers game… my god is more powerful than your god… course the only way to do this was to spite the other gods’ followers and fundamentally that needed numbers. So ban any practice that didn’t give your religion numbers… go forth and be fruitful… that statement alone contradicts the notion that it was handed down from an omnipotent being, because as hindsight is showing, over population is one of the leading causes of the destruction of our world and thus us.
          As for wondering why this long outcasted segment of society is fighting so hard for equality, perhaps it is because they want the same protections under the laws that everyone else shares, the same rights to make medical decisions, legal decisions, bureaucratic privileges afforded other couples under he law. Course it is easy for you to postulate about how they are wrong and you are right to deny them equality since you already have those privileges… just remember how we view those that used much the same arguement you use now to deny others their equality not so one ago.

        • Earth watch police says:

          Christianity has no credibility anymore .History is stained with bloodshed and treachery in the name of religion .

      • theothersidebda says:

        So based on that logic Well Then, Christians should be pro-abortion? So are all the pro-life people hypocrites because they have sins of their own.

  5. Legalgal says:

    We have already had a ruling by Justice Hellman in an adoption case effectively changing the law and bringing it into line with our Human Rights laws on the basis of discrimination on grounds of sexual orientation. Why not challenge via the courts? Enforce our Human Rights laws for all humans. The politicians will take forever!

    • O'Brien says:

      I suspect there are (at least) two reasons a legal challenge has not yet come about.

      First, the claimant(s) would attract a great deal of notoriety. Bermuda is a small place, and I doubt there are many who wish to become the public face of a very controversial social issue (and potentially incur significants costs in doing so).

      Second, there is likely a fear that the Bermudian courts would take their lead from the European Court of Human Rights which has consistently refused to find Convention violations where states have failed to provide marriage equality. That position appears to be softening (see Oliari v Italy), but it may still be too soon for a successful legal challenge here.

      • Legalgal says:

        The times, and judges, they are a changin’. And it is a matter for people to stand up for their rights if it is important to them. Loved the way the legal challenge route has changed matters so effeciently and with minimal political fuss.

  6. San George says:

    Let’um get married, first goes the sex and then they can see what it is like for the rest of us.

  7. Edwin says:

    MONEY OVER MORALS. OH HOW NASTY.

  8. Keepin' it Real!...4Real! says:

    Give them their rights…because you and i have ours…They have a right to their lifestyle and I have a right to dislike it.

  9. I get the sense that Bermuda is not ready to step into the 20th century.That explains why we are in the jam were in.

    • Ash says:

      I guess you could say we are two centuries behind but I would have hoped that we would at least be in the 20th century, just in case you didn’t know 2015 is in the 21st century, just like how a 4 month old baby is in their first year.

      • It’s not part of our CULTURE, that’s why Obama went to Africa begging the leaders over there to accept it.
        We know it’s the 21st century and we should know by now it takes a Male and a Female to keep mankind in existence.

        • Peace and Love says:

          Yes – it does take a man and a woman to reproduce. But passing same-sex marriage does not mean all humans will become homosexual. Hence, the population will do just fine.

          The degree to which you are afraid of same sex marriage speaks a lot louder than your words. Perhaps you should evaluate your own hateful thoughts surrounding this and consider why something that will not impact your life or your marriage (presuming you’re married) is causing so much pain.

          • Its hard enough to teach children about society now this to help confuse the situation.

            • alsys says:

              So the existence of two people of the same sex loving each other enough to get married and actually being able to will make it harder for you to explain the reason why aceboy’s sisters (3) all have different last names and live in different houses?

              Just tryna make sure I understand your point…

              • Thats minor compared to how come those two men are kissing knowing very well that boys kiss girls.
                Hmmmm

                • alsys says:

                  My children are taught that kissing happens often between people who love each other. Period. You’re so caught up in how it makes YOU feel that you’re missing how beautiful love is no matter who is showing it.

        • Earth watch police says:

          Good thing you can’t breed.

    • ron,b says:

      steps into the future don’t go backwards, we are worst off now then ever, keep adopting western ways we are finished

  10. paperboy says:

    There appears to be a number of issues surfacing in Bermuda that will generate fierce debate and could easily go to a national referendum: same sex marriage; marijuana decriminalization; decreasing size of civil service and outsourcing of services. Our politicians will simply continue to stall on these and other issues as they evaluate voting impact.

    I encourage the organisers to host the gatherings in a way that invites our community voices to be heard -going beyond our traditional talking heads style- use open space, world and pro-action cafes.

    • frank says:

      I am not a bible thumping chuch goer but I was brought. Up in a. Christian home and community
      And know right from. Wrong.
      God. Made male and female for a reason and god did not make any mistakes.

      • Family Man says:

        As they said in Kentucky, you can no longer sell your daughter for three goats and a cow so you’ve already changed the biblical terms for marriage.

      • A says:

        God apparently made female from the rib of a man too. And you believe that?

        • Mr. Orange says:

          Remember the bible stories are “parables” the rib in Genesis refers to the connection points in the DNA strain…much like the “clay” refers to earth – i.e carbon the lightest of the earth elements and the building block of lifeforms here on earth – trace the word “Adam” back far enough and it literally means “of earth”

          That is why so many people think they can pick apart the bible – they take it all to literally -. Everyday science and what is in the Word become more closely aligned…

          Here is a fun adventure for anyone interested in the challenge – find out what the word “firmament” as referred to in Genesis is actually referring to. Get ready for the red pill…the deception of the “devil” is vast and we have been indoctrinated in it since drew our first breath..

          • A says:

            So why take the part about man and man literally??

            ps. dna was discovered about 100 years ago. The rib ‘parable’ does not in any way relate to “connection points in the DNA strain”… You’re grasping.

            • Mr. Orange says:

              Your timeline on history is what is/was known is a poduct of the deception that has been delivered you – we are only just now rediscovering what ancient civilizations knew long ago. But keep on referring to Wikipedia for your information. That is exactly what they want.

          • PBanks says:

            Ask SDAs and other faiths if the bible shouldn’t be taken literally.

            • Rhonnie aka BlueFamiliar says:

              If people were taking the bible literally there’b be a lot more murders in Bermuda, mostly from stonings.

      • BermyL says:

        Too bad God. Didn’t take the time. To. Educate you. On. The proper. Use of punctuation.

  11. Happy & Proud says:

    As a gay male living in Bermuda I am disgusted and ashamed by some of the comments which are posted. I don’t understand how my lifestyle hinders yours. It didn’t bother me when you got married why would it bother you if i got married to my partner? Its a shame that my partner and purchase property overseas and invested overseas because of the laws here. We would’ve loved to get married, purchased a house and both of us work here. But that is currently not possible. Do you not realize the impacts that being a homophobic nation has overall? Financially in my opinion gay marriage can only benefit Bermuda as a whole. Bermuda can do so much better. I love my country. Its time for us to be more accepting.

    • That’s the same pitch Obama tried with the African leaders, there has to be somewhere in the world that upholds natural sexual morality and in my opinion Bermuda is very tolerant compared to some Caribbean nations.

    • nope says:

      Why do you feel that the world has to accept your lifestyle? Man and woman create another human being.Man and Man create a mess.We shouldnt have to change because you want to go against the grain. The blackmen have been fighting for equailty for hundreds of years and you think the worlds just going to stop and accept you.

      • PBanks says:

        I think you validate Happy’s argument there, instead of the opposite. Black people have been fighting for equality. Women have been fighting for equality. Gay people will say that they’re fighting a very similar battle.

  12. 21st Century says:

    Bermuda used to lead. Now we follow. What happened?

    • Hmmmmm says:

      We still have the opportunity to lead on this issue, especially in CARICOM states…. ;)

      • john says:

        lead? lol like a good little lemming straight over the cliff… more like a lemmiwinks

  13. Jus' Askin' says:

    Allow for multiple spouses as well ;-)

    • 1 don’t know about that, one woman is enough for me.
      More then one nagging at me would drive me crazy.

    • john galt says:

      the sodomites are hypocrites, they refuse to stand up for other peoples rights, they just want special rights for themselves

      • Mr. Orange says:

        Ah! Ayn Rand! She had it right John – She Had it Right!

        • Mr. Orange says:

          John, remember when you said this?

          “Yes, this is an age of moral crisis. Yes, you are bearing punishment for your evil. But it is not man who is now on trial and it is not human nature that will take the blame. It is your moral code that’s through, this time. Your moral code has reached its climax, the blind alley at the end of its course. And if you wish to go on living, what you now need is not to return to morality—you who have never known any—but to discover it.”

  14. Guess Who says:

    Reading the comments to which I find interesting. I have no issues with how people chose to survive. Please note for those who have issues with non-Bermudians living here, open the new airport, because here they come. In ten years they will remarry and construct another airport. More will come, as we all want create our own community.

    These up standing educated people will have children within these marriages without a male or female figure, this will add to our already dysfunctional youth. Some will question my comments, but normalcy comes with disfunction as it is.

    Why do we keep changing stuff? Fix what we have. Why is our culture, what the rest of the world predicts? Turn the TV off!

  15. In Babylon says:

    Adam and Eve or Adam and Steve?

    • Starting Point says:

      The computer you typed that on is based on science that disproves the possibility of Adam and Eve. Unless you admit your are a hypocrite, please log off and stop living in society. thanks.

      BTW, be careful if you go out fishing in a boat, if you go to far you will fall off the edge…..

      • Mr. Orange says:

        You know nothing of the true history of mankind with a statement like that…you think that in this 21st century are the only computers to be used in our vast history?

        turn off the TV indeed!

        You think we know more know than our ascendants knew then? Or is it just possible that we are only know rediscovering what was lost due to ELE’s?

        As the wise and great Solomon said “there is NOTHING new under the Sun”

        • serengeti says:

          Oh this is great. Tell us more about how people had computers thousands of years ago.

          This should be good.

    • Ride says:

      Aren’t the first two fictional characters from that story about dust and poor parenting?

    • serengeti says:

      So, clear this up, since you think the story about Adam and Eve is actual historical fact. How did Adam and Eve’s children have any offspring? Wouldn’t it have involved incest? That’s disgusting. What happened there?

      • john says:

        you seem to be unable to grasp that they may have been different pre flood in terms of dna expression. How can you account for them living over 900 years? no sugar and chemicals in their diet?

        • Mr. Orange says:

          Thanks John – someone with the ability to think abstractly – unlike spagetti…

          • serengeti says:

            Oh you again. Maybe Adam and Eve surfed the internet on their computers, right?

            Is that ‘abstract’ enough for you?

        • serengeti says:

          Oh, this is new. Tell us more about this ‘different way of dna expression’. I don’t remember this coming up before. Are you saying they had children without having sex? Give us a science lesson on how that happened, since you seem to know all about dna.

          And if that’s the case, why the reference to Adam and Eve at all? If Adam and Eve and their children had no sex, then they weren’t heterosexual.

        • serengeti says:

          And what’s this red herring about ‘pre flood’?
          I thought the whole point of the flood was that Noah got two of every type of animal on his boat to preserve dna.
          Are you changing your mind about that as well? Did everyone drown?
          This is fascinating.

          • john galt says:

            see, you think that there were 2 of each animal, go back and do some reading

            • serengeti says:

              No, I think he should explain it. Noah’s job was to preserve nda, and now we’re being told that the nda changed after the flood? And Adam and Eve never had sex?
              There’s some weird stuff going on here.

        • alsys says:

          Mate, he doesn’t have to account for them “living 900 years” because he’s actually telling you he doesn’t believe any of it.

          • john galt says:

            he just said that they were siblings and it would end up with incest.. so i thought that means he did not dismiss it. i guess maybe he was just mocking a bible story because thats what sodomites like to do… i liked the story of sodom. it was abundantly clear why it happened and the punishment was just

            • Zevon says:

              So you all think the whole human race is descended from an incestuous family.
              Wow, you are just weird.

        • RBKing says:

          According to the bible Cain married his sister. Incest. No other word for it. Disgusting. That’s what you bible thumpers all believe in.

    • PBanks says:

      It wouldn’t be a topic about gay rights without someone throwing an “Adam and Steve” into the mix. Joy.

  16. Vulcan Trash Cleaner says:

    there are more hypocrites in Bermuda than anywhere else in the world per capita!

    • Mr. Orange says:

      And of course you are not one of them in any area of your life…of course not.

      • Person who knows a little says:

        Everyone is a hypocrite in some capacity. But some people are a lot more hypocritical than others. cough religious nuts (among others) cough

  17. Tony Brannon says:

    It’s a start!

    Everyday lost in Bermuda by not legalizing SAME SEX MARRIAGE is a day lost for HUMAN RIGHTS.
    Everyday lost in Bermuda is costing Bermuda millions in annual LGBT tourism revenue.

    Bermuda Tourism stands to see a huge addition in annual revenue by affording same sex couples the right to marry in our island.

    The International Press and kudos Bermuda would get by announcing news that Bermuda has legalized Same Sex Marriage would be tremendous for our island nation.

    Wedding planners, airlines, cruise ships, taxis, hotels, restaurants, entertainment would all see major boosts in revenue.

    I would like to see concrete numbers and estimates of tourism revenue for Bermuda from the BTA and the hotels. This should be presented at the information sessions.

    The information sessions will be held on Monday, 28 September at the Berkeley Institute and Thursday, 1 October at Bermuda College North Hall. The sessions begin at 6 p.m.

    Please support the sessions and let’s push for the legalization of Same Sex Marriage in Bermuda.

    Like I said above, everyday lost is a lost day for Human Rights and Tourism revenue.

    TARGET: to have SSM legal by end of 2015 or at the latest: spring of 2016.

    Regards
    Tony Brannon
    p.s. Note these other jurisdictions:

    http://www.dallasnews.com/business/personal-finance/headlines/20150702-will-gay-marriage-benefit-texas-economy.ece
    http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/research/economic-impact-reports/estimating-the-economic-boost-of-marriage-equality-in-washington-state-sales-tax-2/
    http://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/cities/lifestyle/gay-marriage-boost-wedding-industry-2015/
    http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/22934528/uh-217m-in-tourism-if-gay-marriage-in-hawaii

    • So were gonna turn this little island into a Sodom and Gomorrah getaway,

      • ForReal says:

        Sodom and Gomorrah? I suggest you go back and check. It was not just men lying with men. They were also worshiping false idols, and a raft of other things. Not just men lying with men. Don’t pull one thing out from the scripture use the whole scripture and quote it properly

        I assume that it is ok with you that a man lies with another worman out of wedlock and have children but don’t own up to their responsibilities because it is a male and female. I assumre that is is ok that teenagers have children because it is ok for a male and female to lie with each other and have children because well, it is adam and eve?

        But I guess the gays are the ones who will bring the downfall of the island. Not anyone else doing all the other things that should not be committed according to the bible.

        • Mr. Orange says:

          You have a point there…

          • The Bible was used to emasculate and subdue the African Warrior.
            We had it together before they brainwashed us,and that was thousands of years before you knew the world was round.

            • ForReal says:

              Wow! In this day and age of the internet and freedom of information and knowledge, I am blown away by this comment.

              So in effect, people of colour have not advanced because we have been brainwashed and don’t have the capacity to dig and find out things via available sources?

              If we have been hoodwinked for all this time, all I can say is fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me!

              I think that I give credit to people to be able to step forward and move past the, it is their fault and not ours.

              • Centuries of Generational Psychological Damage is hard for some people to overcome.
                That’s why I’m glad I have a Liberated mindset to school those that are not Liberated YET.

                • ForReal says:

                  Good thing you are liberating those who have not been liberated YET.

                  Hmmm…reminds me of certan events going on now and all those people who are being liberated in the middle east. Good thing ISIS is liberating minds globally! Onwards and upwards!

                • Earth watch police says:

                  You’re joking right you’re probably gay .

              • Build a Better Bermuda says:

                It is indeed a age of information accessibility, and it appears that some believe that because it is on the internet it must be true… especially when it promotes their world views.

            • Mr. Orange says:

              It was not the bible that did that friend it was the wicked men wielding the bible….

              • Well with quotes like love your enemies, love them that hate you and turn the other check,etc while we were being systematically murdered,hung and discriminated against.
                I dont play that S!@#.
                Talk about mental damage,what right thinking person will allow themselves to be treated like that and not retaliate.
                You better recognize.

      • Quinton Berkley Butterfield says:

        Ezekiel 16:49

        • Mr. Orange says:

          Sadly Mr. Butterfield this new Bermuda does not recognize the needs of the poor – the old Bermuda did not either in fact. We are all of the things this Chapter and verse refers to. To deny this is Hypocritical. This gay issue is just another one of the vices of this world. Always has been – always will be…

          • PBanks says:

            I wouldn’t even want to rank gay rights among a list of vices.

            Murder is harmful. Theft is harmful. Greed and corruption are harmful. Neglecting the less well-off of is harmful. People of the same gender that want to live together, that doesn’t harm anybody.

    • Tough Love says:

      Interesting that you want to pander to the LGBT community, but the Christian community is being ignored. With the money that Christian conferences like Mega Fest bring to the cities that hold them, you would think that we push for that too. Nope. Ignore the Christians, focus on the LGBT. SMH!

      • Person who knows a little says:

        Why should Christians be allowed to impose their religious beliefs on others? By allowing gays/lesbians to get married it has absolutely no effect on Christians(they can still think its wrong).

        • Tough Love says:

          Why should the LGBT be allowed to impose their lifestyle on others? On freedom for one, right?

          • alsys says:

            1. Having the same rights as someone is NOT imposing their lifestyle on you. These are the exact same arguments used to denigrate black people all those years ago!

            And 2., no they DON’T make pastors perform ceremonies. That is an outright lie. Some denomination such as Espistocal allow for gay pastors, that’s it. If you choose not to wish to marry someone, you can, that doesn’t affect them because they can get married the same way a lot of people do, by having a non-religious person to officiate.

        • Tough Love says:

          Also, if they force pastors to perform the ceremonies, as in the states, that would be a great effect on Christians.

          • Just The Tip says:

            This is a lie

            name the church and pastor forced to do if not this is an outright lie

        • Mr. Orange says:

          Christians shouldn’t be allowed that – it is not as if Jesus forced the masses to listen to him much in the same was some preacher in a mega church does’t force his church to attend…

      • PBanks says:

        Aren’t the churches already bringing in people for conferences? Seems like there’s a big conference happening every month by some religious group or another.

        If someone wanted something on the scale of needing a venue the size of the National Stadium to host, nothing’s stopping them.

        Remember, Faith-Based Tourism was also pushed out a few years ago, but sputtered miserably. Maybe government needed to get out of the way and let the churches try their own thing, who knows.

    • john says:

      not buying the bill of goods you are flogging tony. I for one am LESS likely to holiday where i know gays congregate… i expect that since you abnormal people make up maybe 1% of the population that your projections are nothing but pie in the sky… although i suspect by trying to make it more normalized, more kids will be messed with and then grow up confused thinking that they are now part of the group. I bet most of the community here was molested when they were younger and they grew up confused and thinking they were different. sodomy is/was wrong for a reason. And it is not economic

      • Just The Tip says:

        I wasn’t molested and gay, so you can take that line and shut up

        • john galt says:

          thats ok i personally know many that were. clear in my mind my friends neighbor on north shore tried to give me and my friend alcohol when we were about 11 or 12 and get us in his house…. the guy is as queer as they come. i ran as fast as i could away from that guy, but who knows how many boys he molested over time? im guessing quite a few got turned gay that way… so no thank you, i will not shut up, i will be honest about it, why dont you try a page from that book

          • Just The Tip says:

            So you have one, just one ‘story’ about you and an ace boy having possible run in witha possible person who might have done something to and suddenly its justifies every thing you said and you want me to be honest? really?

            • john galt says:

              no my current neighbor was raped by his “uncle”, and i have numerous friends both gay and straight that were molested by gay men when they were kids. I know its a painful thing to admit but it is actually widespread on the island.

              • Just the Tip says:

                So is the person now gay?
                I notice you said numerous can you give a number?
                Also you changed your approach why is that? We started talking about how you believe most gays are because of molestation. Now you say gays and straights are be molested by gay men which is it?
                How do you know that the molesters are gay or are just assuming that?

                Your logic is why more boys don’t come forward sooner about molestation, because they’re afraid that people who think like you are going to automatically assume that they are gay.

                And just to be clear I am fully aware of the fact there is molestation of children on this island.

              • Mike Hind says:

                Any actual evidence, or can we just dismiss this theory of yours off-hand as ridiculous hatespeech?

      • PBanks says:

        Aren’t most pedophiles heterosexual?

    • Rhonnie aka BlueFamiliar says:

      Wish that I could attend, Tony, but I’ve got work. Fully behind what you’re trying to do.

  18. Jim bob says:

    Before the human rights laws were amended to include sexual orientation I said the next thing they will be pushing for is marriage…….and look where we are now. I think we should have a referendum on this cause I for one will be voting against thing. There was once a time you could tell someone your married and they knew it was to the opposite sex now when someone says their married your unsure if it’s to the opposite sex, another human, animals or someone of the same sex.

    • Ride says:

      Another post that goes wildly off topic.

      Try to comprehend that this is about a legal contract between consenting adults that some adults are denied on the basis of their gender/sexuality. Some key phrases here are “legal contract” and “consenting adults”.

      Either it is okay to discriminate based on gender/sexuality or it is not. If it is okay then people should be able to be fired solely (that is, for no other reason) because they are male or even because they are heterosexual female. Surely you agree that this is unacceptable.

      Similarly, it is unacceptable to prevent consenting adults from obtaining a legal contract solely on the basis of their gender/sexuality.

      • jim bob says:

        You’re talking rubbish. The article and consultation is on same sex MARRIAGE.

        The tactics of the homosexual movement to get things changed appears to be very focused on misconstruing and diminshing the major points and focusing on the minor points; aka this isn’t about changing the meaning of marriage its about a “legal contract between consenting adults”. Also you are trying to group gender and sexuality together when they are totally different. One is a choice and the other one isnt.

        For avoidance of doubt, I would wholly support same sex civil unions that provide the same legal protections and benefits that marriages provide.

        • Ride says:

          Yes. Marriage. Marriage is a legal construct not a religious construct. Religions have placed ceremony around marriage but without the legal recognition the ceremony is useless in terms of the people being married.

          Note that you do not need a religious ceremony to become married. However, all marriages need the legal documentation processed to be considered married. Do you clearly understand that.

          Marriage is a legal contract. What we are discussing is a legal contract between consenting adults. They cannot be denied this contact solely on the basis of their gender/sexuality.

          Ride

        • Mike Hind says:

          A) you’d be supporting separate but equal with the civil union thing and
          B) churches perform weddings. The church has nothing to do with marriages.

  19. ron,b says:

    Homosexuality is used as a population control strategy which started in 1973 under the Rockefeller World Population Council. Planned Parent Hood International and the Rockefeller World Population Control Council decided it would be best that homosexuality be propagated in the black community as a healthy lifestyle choice. in 1974, Dr. Henry Kissinger created a national security memorandum called NSSM2000, a document that looks specifically at strategies to control the black population rate across the world ( with birth control, healthy sexual practices and a alternative lifestyle modifications). Nigeria and America along with other African countries were listed as targets

    • Tough Love says:

      Interesting. That’s one reason for the declining birth rate in Bermuda.

      • Gee I Wonder says:

        Always comes down to race in Bermuda! smh

        • ron,b says:

          because when people talk about peoples rights, it hits a nerve in millions of people of color,

          • Its always been about race until we were stripped of our Tongue, Freedom and Land.

            • Anbu says:

              Funny you say that as u spout off your drivel with that tongue that was taken from u by us evil ppl. We all know u speak just as u type. How u do that with no tongue dopey? Lmao

        • mj says:

          it started with race, Bermuda was the first to make laws of prejudice against the “negro” population, stopping them through the pen, from benefitting from the tobacco crops that they tilled in the land. in later years the govenor also supported the efforts from america to sterilize the negros whose population was growing so that they can control the growth of the”negro” , today is known as “abortion”, homosexuality, and all other forms of labelling behaviour and giving drugs to suppress the growth of the so-called “negro”… wake up!!! what kind of people sterilize, give medication and drugs to a group of people than turn around and call them ignorant, not educated enough, lazy, all the “by words” that are derogatory? ponder on the types of people who have come into this land and what they have accomplished and how..They subtly introduce their agenda and use people to front their cause while they are destroying them. hosea 4:6

          • Don’t forget about the Tuskegee Experiment and other experiments they don’t want you to know about.
            Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery not but ourselves can FREE our minds.

          • Gee I Wonder says:

            Cant prove you wrong when your right! All I can say is- Thank God my children will grow up with an open mind and acceptance of PEOPLE, no matter there race, gender or culture, far away from the hatred and racial intolerance of Bermuda. You can carry on without me

            • Well if they’re Black they’ll figure it out and realize they have to conform if they’re white they fit well in society.

            • mj says:

              gee I wonder—-Yes we have a lot of issues in Bermuda but pointing out truth is not hatred and later on you will find that the bubble you think you live in is got a tiny little hole and may allow you a view of why people are the way they are because of this very behaviour we are discussing and the agenda behind it that started in the 60′s and 70′s along with plans to medicate our people to death since cruel slavery was “abolished” I do not discriminate against people just because they are who they are, if certain behaviours are not conducive to the growht potential of your children I know you will speak out against it..and like “onion juice” says below if they are melinated”so called”black” they will find out if they are other they will fit right in .

          • Mr. Orange says:

            MJ you are going to get yourself in trouble with that truth-speak. Be careful the thought police led by big gay brother is coming for you to administer your “reconditioning”

            • mj says:

              seem like you verifying that truth! Mr. Orange if the truth is what it is than let it be, hard to fight against truth.

    • Mr. Orange says:

      SHHH ron b lest someone actuallt READ what is in those documents and find out the truth for themselves! Better to keep it about race so it is ignored…

    • PBanks says:

      Question: are there more gay black people in the world than gay white people? If there was this big ol’ push to ‘promote’ homosexuality among black people, why are there so many gay people (in comparison) that are non-black?

  20. No need says:

    No need for gays to get married. Many straight couples who don’t want marriage stay together and call it something different. Life partners etc. Why do gays need to be special? They are trying to reinvent categories and centuries-old ways. Why should the majority shape themselves to fit the minority? And this is about beliefs not looks!

    Homosexuality does NOT occur in nature, using one penguin as a reference is pathetic and stupid. Homosexuality is a psychological condition and choice, I have many gay friends and don’t try to brainwash me different.

    • Ride says:

      By what edict are you authorised to dictate which legal contracts consenting adults can enter into on the basis of their gender/sexuality?

    • Legalgal says:

      Humans are not animals. (At least most of us aren’t.)

    • alsys says:

      How are gays asking to be “special” by asking for the same thing you and I already have?? They are not trying to reinvent, if you go back in history to the Greeks, same sex marriage was allowed back then. These spurious reasons for rejecting a right to a person that is not you sounds much like the same things civil rights fighter fought for previously. Remember when it was illegal to have interracial marriages??

      I will never understand how we as black people have the audacity to deny others rights when we are always harping on about our rights. Nobody is asking you to like it, just get out of the way.

      • Tough Love says:

        The Greeks also allowed pedophilia. You sure you want to set them up as a prime example?

        • alsys says:

          The bible allowed for killing those of other faith, marrying a widow off to their brother-in-law, prevented us from eating shellfish (Lobster season no more!). You sure you want to hang your hat on that post? Pedophilia impacts others right, gay marriage does not.

          • Tough Love says:

            Actually you are only mentioning certain portions of the bible and your view is twisted. You can’t pick portions here and there and not tell the whole story. But those are the parts that prove your point, right?

            • alsys says:

              Actually that’s only the ones from the only book in the bible that even mentions homosexuality, Levitacus. And there’s more, eat pork – sinner; tattoos? – sinner; divorce – oh you can going to hell; wear clothing made of multiple fabrics? – sinner; allow your wife to live in the house while on her “stuff” – this one is a doozy, sinner!. Oh and let’s not forget my favourite for all the Bermudians who like to joke about daddy and Pond Hill – be illegitimate, be a product anywhere in your history of illegitimacy? God will smite you if you try to go into a place of worship or even if you try to worship him on your own. Nice.

              Anyone here that doesn’t fit into any of these? Because there’s more! Use the bible to deny someone there rights and I’m betting you will not be heading to your heaven yourself. Apparently God hates people who don’t follow ALL his rules… or does he?

              • john galt says:

                actually thats false as well, it is mentioned in romans as well

                • alsys says:

                  Any of those other things you’d like to speak against? Cause I can name things in Romans that I’m betting you do and shouldn’t according to the bible. (Plus that statement in Romans is a bit iffy actually).

      • Tough Love says:

        When gays are forced into slavery and not allowed to mix with other people and arrested at higher rates than blacks, then you can start comparing their issues with ours.

        • alsys says:

          You mean like the rate at which gays are and have been killed in various countries, including “civilized ones”, along with the huge amount of them that have been driven to commit suicide over the years??Again, it’s not comparison. Treat others as you wish to be treated. You can’t fight for your own rights while systematically denying those of others and not be a hypocrite. Period.

        • serengeti says:

          So you think it’s ok to discriminate against certain people, and to deny certain people equal rights.

          • Tough Love says:

            Don’t put words into my mouth. You compared gay struggle with the black struggle and there is a vast difference. But admitting that wouldn’t help your agenda.

            • kim says:

              homosexuals are fighting for the right to practice a certain behavior ,blacks are fighting for the rights to be treated like human beings. its no comparison, the lgbt group even said they are in no way for the black struggle.

              • PBanks says:

                What behaviour? Marriage? Because they can already ‘practice a certain behaviour’ right now with no consequence after the Stubbs Bill was passed.

            • serengeti says:

              I’m not comparing anything with anything. I’m just pointing out that you think it’s desirable to deny equal rights to certain people, and to discriminate against them.

      • mj says:

        MY dear alsys, we are not greeks, their ways are not our ways, their rights are our demise…its not a matter of what we like or don’t like, we have a Creator who is not just willy, nilly about what is right and wrong there are reasons why two of the same sex cannot be married, marriage between the earth and the heavens is rain, when rain enters the earth , the grass grows.. When a man enters a woman and plants a seed it grows, forming a oneness within her, which is actually the marriage, not walking down the aisle in a ceremony, everything natural, .. there is no progress with same sex marriage . Even if an older couple of male and female marry they become an example of what creation is and are there to keep the family together to show how we multiply .. we cannot teach our children to mulitply if all men stay with men and all women stay with women, it is non-productive and unnecessary.. the permission from government to marry does not excuse the abomination in the eyes of the Creator who sent us forth from the earth to multiply, but there are groups of people that were created to test our knowledge and unfortunately many people have fallen for the “greek” mythology, .Being a follower without understanding the history has brought us to this point of questioning sexuality rather than pursuing justice.

        • PBanks says:

          What does the act of intercourse and the creation of new life have to do with marriage?

          Tons of people here do it all the time without marriage. Or ‘government-sanctioned marriage’ since your argument now refines marriage as having sex.

          How does allowing a couple of the same gender to obtain legal benefits in the same way that a couple of different genders would, affect society at large? Will men and women stop having sex and ‘multiplying’?

        • john galt says:

          bingo, you win the interweb for today

        • alsys says:

          My dearer MJ. God also created amphibians and fish that change sex when in need and live in same sex communes according to you so that was intended. And God created dna points that correspond to being gay, thus proving that being gay is something you are born as, so he must have intended that too right?

          God creates barren men and woman every day, do you think his intention is to keep them from marrying?

          And I’m sorry, no, have a quick one is NOT marriage. Having a child together is NOT marriage, as is so clearly indicated in Bermuda all around us. Using inexplicable remarks like that to prove your point actually proves the exact opposite.

          • mj says:

            back at you my dearest alysa—-marriage act within itself does not require permission it is a natural occurence, The Most High does not have the same view as us and therefore the sanctifying of marriage through a ceremony of a church is not biblical, taking to marry is a seual act and solidifying it produces a child which makes the male and female the parent of the child the coming together of their intercourse is a marriage that produces a child the same way I stated previously that rain marries with earth to produce growth that sustains life,..Don’t limit your capacity to learn unloose that stiff neck and study more about yourself , the self that a dominant force is trying to impose on the earth that will only cause demise as is evident by the many comments througouht these threads whenever this subject comes up..A persons sexual preference doesn’t have to be made public, and the rest of us have an opinion as well, you don’t find animals screaming for acceptance they are natural..This obsessive sexual , bi, tri or otherwise is not natural if so it would not be seeking the blessings of government or others.It will not change the end result whether government approves or not.It is not and never has been our culture.. (genesis 1:26,27)I ertainly wouldn’t want to be living just to do whatever i like even if i am wrong,I would want someone to care enough to explain to me , I might just catch on later, forwarned is forarmed .

            • Varied says:

              So what is fornication and or adultery to you? Just another form of marriage?

      • Like I said, this is not part of African Culture, Im glad someone mentioned the Greeks, thats one race card saved.

        • Anbu says:

          Its totally part of “your” culture mate. Do a little reasearch. Your culture must have liked it if the greeks taught it to em. If they didnt there would be no gay black people right. Blame yourself

          • Mr. Orange says:

            PB Blank and ANU you really need to unlearn the history that has been fed you by this “control” system you live under – your knowledge of the truth of the past is infantile. Lord help you.

            • PBanks says:

              Well that’s a load of patronising rubbish. Can I call you Mr. Norange now?

    • Ride says:

      I’ll add that it is telling that you make the claim that homosexuality does not occur in nature and then immediately reference one example (and there are many) where it actually does occur. You have presented evidence against your own argument.

    • actually says:

      Actually, sexual interactions between animals of the same gender have been observed in both lions and dolphins in the wild, in addition to the example of the penguins in the zoo.
      Scientific research has shown that, in humans, sexuality and sexual orientation is defined in the uterus as certain genes are activated (or not) as the fetus develops.

      • YADON says:

        No it does not. You will never find a pic of another animal with it’s ***** inserted in a ******. NEVER.

      • Sexual interactions between animals off the same gender are minimal and are we to be more intelligent then the animals.

        • Come Correct says:

          You thought the irritated genie talk was fabulous…are you more intelligent than an animal?

  21. ron,b says:

    we all knew this was coming

  22. Alvin Williams says:

    I guess the OBA government considers this is an easy issue to have a town hall meeting about; to bad some other issues are not given due consideration. But interestingly if this goes all the way and same sex marriages are allowed will Bermuda see it’s own what her name Kim? in Bermuda?

    • serengeti says:

      What the hell are you talking about.

      • PBanks says:

        I’m guessing Kim Davis and her saga of not approving marriage licenses.

    • john galt says:

      be careful alvin, if you dont mind what you say on this topic the gaystapo will target you. their agenda does not tolerate dissent of any kind

      • Varied says:

        You refer to people as sodomites and ‘gaystapo’ on this thread and you’re the one playing victim and calling out people’s agenda? Weird.

  23. swing voter says:

    go ahead get married I really dont care either way as long as you behave yourselves in public and dont try to recruit impress sway or indoctrinate like the church people that knock on my door!

    • PBanks says:

      To be honest, I’ve yet to see gay people misbehaving in public. Straight people, definitely :)

      As for recruiting, I don’t think we’re going to have people handing out flyers on street corners. Does this happen in ‘gay-friendly’ cities in the US or Europe?

      • Mr. Orange says:

        P Blank you are either a. not well traveled or b. willfully ignorant – when was the last time you went “out” Gays do a damned good job of misbehaving…

        • PBanks says:

          Mr Norange perhaps in your circles you are always bumping up into gay orgies or whatever else offends you, but I’ve not seen it. Last indecent act that I was aware of in Bermuda, concerned a man and an (underage?) female.

          • Toodle-oo says:

            This post is guaranteed to make OJ’s head explode . He won’t know whether to hit dislike 10 times or like a million times .. lmfao !

  24. clearasmud says:

    It is often repeated that some persons ar being denied their “Equal right” but as I see it we were already on equal footing because of teh following
    1.everyone including gays had the right to marry a member of the opposite sex and many did.
    2. Noone had the right to marry a member of the same sex so where exactly was the inequality?
    That said my problem is with the use of the term marriage. I would prefer civil union because if it is different than it is not the same! so why use the same term? We have an established term for the union between opposite sex couples why can’t we have a different term for same sex couples?

    • Rhonnie aka Blue Familiar says:

      My vote is to remove the term marriage from use entirely and find another all inclusive term to use.

  25. Tough Love says:

    Why must it be called marriage? Why not civil unions, which give the same rights as marriage without redefining the whole marriage act?

    • PBanks says:

      Then government would have to revoke every current marriage on the books, replace it with a civil union, and leave ‘marriage’ as a religious term only, to make it fair for everybody. You know, to avoid “separate but equal” and all that.

      Which sounds like it’ll be a hell of a load of effort, although the end result would probably be palatable.

  26. SANDGROWNAN says:

    What is the need for public information sessions? (I do know the answer – it’s rhetorical).

    Just get on with it, and let religious conservatives froth and gnash their teeth. They’ve been wrong on every social issue through history, and their wrong here. They’ll get over it. And if they don’t, who really cares?

  27. ron,b says:

    the hatred that this subject generates is so unhealthy
    for the soul,i was taught that this life style was wrong, when i was young
    i was taught to hate them,but we are not here to judge, we are here to learn how to love unconditionally,these situations show how our emotions are our enemy

    • mj says:

      we should not teach hate however we are here to judge(isaiah 58:1) because we have to be concerned about our soul, and the fact that the wicked were given control of the earth(job9:24) does not mean we should follow them, we need to understand what is right and wrong so that we become the judges we were meant to be so that the earth can achieve a balance. not all of the vegetables will make it into the soup, here a little there a little,..we should not be afraid to point out false beliefs, or wrong doings that are detrimental to our existence, we correct children but are afraid to correct adults based on a title given not the essence of their heart and soul, so it is hypocritical to understand one group and not the other if we are to have any harmony,.

      • Rhonnie aka BlueFamiliar says:

        There’s nothing wrong with saying that you disagree with how someone lives their life.

        There is nothing wrong with suggesting that you know a better way and are willing to share that way.

        Jesus taught with love and acceptance.
        He didn’t deny sinners. He gave unconditionally in the hopes that it would show sinners a better way. All are forgiven if they repent.

        But you can’t make someone repent by denying them things. You might make them say the words, but nothing within will change.

        But you can teach by your actions.

        • mj says:

          repent means to go the opposite way of where you were going and don’t continue to go in that same way for example if you know that you shouldn’t celebrate christmas than discontinue the practice of pagan worship, simple as that, to repent is a verb of action from a previous act..It has nothing to do with kneeling, praying weeeping and wailing, to repent and do the will of The Most High is to obey his commandments but also they were only commanded to His chosen people His first -born Israel(genesis 4:22) through the son of Isaac, who is Jacob whose name was changed to Israel,, so it does not apply to all people which is why certain people we should not follow because they will be judged differently.(Hosea 11:1)

  28. Lea says:

    I don’t understand how one religion can dictate society. Not everyone subscribes to these beliefs so it shouldn’t determine how people live. Homosexuality is not a choice, the only choice to be made, is the choice of being yourself.

    • Person who knows a little says:

      Thank you for having a brain.

    • I’ve been asking that question for a LONG time, how can one religion dictate society when, most of the Mexican, South American, Asia and African countries are Catholic.
      WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • PBanks says:

        It’s kind of interesting that the Pope for example, is still revered by many Christians (or people of other faith) even though their faith is opposed to Catholicism .

        • Because Christianity comes from Roman culture.
          Google “Serapis” thats the first image of Jesus.

          • john galt says:

            actually it is jewish. i know that might not fit your narrative, but jesus and all his disciples were practising jews. catholicism comes from the romans, which is why they are not even christians… just read martin luthers writings he nailed to the door of the catholic church to see why

    • Tough Love says:

      Actually Christians and Muslims disagree with homosexuality, as well as Judaism. But continue on with your Christian bashing.

      • Lea says:

        ok fine..any religion..doesn’t matter. No one religion should have any bearing on anyone else’s life.

        • mj says:

          and how you want to be viewed sexually is not anyone elses business but ya partner so why should someone be forced to sign a paper to validate your existence as a person with a sexual preference that is practiced in private. Why do you need a paper to explain to you to be yourself?or are your feelings not justification enough.. would it give you that much more power to have it on paper to display something that is personal?also religion through the vatican is dominating not the opinions of people who label themselves. So if you want to start eating through your nose instead of your mouth whose permission do you need. Do you want a paper explaining friendship as well?

  29. Smarter441 says:

    Any black person that is against gays is no better KKk. You are doing to them what they exactly did to us and before you preach about God remember that the slave owners use to say that it was their God given right to own slaves. So be open and accepting to all because not too long ago society was fighting the blacks how we now fight the gays.

  30. I am shocked by the statements and comments left on this page. The Church does not have the right to govern human rights. Human rights should not be granted by popular vote. The government should not be soliciting public opinion. This should not have to go before the courts to save the government face. This should just be granted and get on with the bigger issues Bermuda is facing.

    Human rights are there to prevent minorities from being excluded, discriminated against and not being given an equal foothold in society that “civilized society” suggests we are all entitled to.

    Everyday I read about how bad things are in Bermuda, the budget deficit, the social issues, the government not doing enough for its people, for Bermudians and still I never read anything that is supportive, constructive or that will actually help. Stop being part of the problem and be part of the solution.

    Bermuda Tourism has failed and faltered for years now because what is being offered in Bermuda is not what the rest of the world wants, it is not at the price point people want and it has never modernized what it offers. Mounted on top of this the fact that tourists are unwilling to come to a country that will tolerate you as long as you are spending money but, should you ask for anything special or personal and it is not possible (example: the international press writing about the couple being refused marriage because the cruise ship is Bermuda registered).

    If Bermuda wants a diversified base to balance the budget, to get Bermudians working/provide Bermudians with work, to make this great island a place of global envy then for God sake give the rest of the world a perception that everyone is welcome here and not just the wallet in your pocket.

    Giving gay couples the right to marry is not going to cause a social collapse; it may even help fuel recovery. The planet is not going to explode, for a billion or so years. It is clear discrimination is alive and well in Bermuda. The twofaced approach by misinformed people who are unwilling to accept people for who they are and not want to interfere in their lives is sickening.

    I have never heard such misdirected complaining.

    • john galt says:

      you are saying that getting married is a human right? then in that case the govt should have no say in the matter, correct?

    • Onion Juicer says:

      So am I. If you’re gay and reading this, I apologize for the daily ignorance and cruelty you must have to experience here on our narrow minded little island. You are a loved and valued member of our community and deserve to love and be loved just like everybody else. That’s a basic human right. Hopefully in time my fellow bretheran will emancipate themselves from their mental slavery and learn to view everyone as equals. Even including some as unenlightened as Onion Juice

  31. Be Realistic says:

    STOP STOP STOP STOP STOP…

    I MUST STOP READING AND CLICKING ON THESE ARTICLES….it is with very perverse enjoyment that I click on these articles, which I know full well will be full of incendiary comments. Perhaps I get some sort of ‘kick’ reading and laughing at the comments that I know are insensitive and derogatory. Yet…time after time, I – can’t – stop – clicking – and –clicking…..oooooh damn you and your clicky finger!

    In all seriousness, I am both saddened and realistic about the comments on this issue. I understand that it is very emotive and not everyone will approve. However, the vitriolic comments that are being spouted supposedly in the name of God are grotesque. Yes Onionjuice, Toughlove, Swingvoter, MrOrange, RonB I’m talking about you.

    Thedarknight “If it were up to me I wouldn’t allow same sex marriage anywhere in this world.”
    JohnGalt “i am less likely to go to a bar if i know gays are there. i am less likely to frequent a business if they are there regularly. While i personally dont care what they do at home in their bedroom, i do not want to be around them.”
    “keepitreal” I still don’t understand why we need to change the law for people sexual preferences…like seriously what if a pedophile says we are denying their rights as well. After all the “experts say they’re born that way”
    “onionjuice” So how are they supposed to REPRODUCE?

    In this day and age, are we really still making comments like this?

    In several other countries, anyone making these comments would be prosecuted.

    The homophobic, narrow minded, opinionated, inflammatory comments produced on these forums make me sick.

    • john galt says:

      i am sorry, what part was homophobic in my statement that i dont want to be around them? when i was a boy i had a gay guy try to take advantage of me and my friend. while the two of us got away, what part of that experience should i forget about? i do not trust them to be around little boys for a good reason. history shows i am correct. In thailand there are ladyboys(men who act like women) gayboys, and regular people. Their culture is super accepting of anything. But they are smart enough to draw a line somewhere. Guess what it is. The gays are not allowed to be in the military and they are not allowed to teach children. I stand 100% with them in that. i suppose you would say its bigotted

      • Be Realistic says:

        I think you are confusing your childhood issues which sound like pedophilia (which is obviously totally wrong) with consenting adults of the same sex….you may be really really smoking hot but don’t assume that every gay person would want to hit on you…very presumptuous!

      • Rhonnie aka Blue Familiar says:

        If you were a boy, it was a pedophile who tried to take advantage of you, not a gay man.

        Now, depending upon your age at the time, the pedophile could be gay, or not, as most pedophiles do not differentiate between the gender of the child.

        The average gay person has no sexual interest in children, in the same way the average hetero person has no sexual interest in children.

        I am sorry for you experience, but it by no means justifies colouring gay people as you do.

    • Quinton Berkley Butterfield says:

      This comment thread has been surreal to say the least. Computers 1000′s of years ago, black race population control, ribs are really DNA, pre-flood means incest is ok? Is this real life?

      • Mr. Orange says:

        You are oversimplifying and intellectually lazy – the history is out there – don,t think it is not true because YOU have not heard it. You would like to think that the world revolves around you but nothing could be further from the truth…

        For example a computer simply is a device that performs simple calculations – the only thing that separated today’s electronic computers from yesterdays mechanical ones is computing speed….a

      • Family Man says:

        It’s better than a Sarah Palin/Ben Carson science talk.

        No wonder Bermuda has so many unemployable people.

    • Waiter says:

      I will say @Be Realistic I’m not a fan of their (the people you previously mentioned) comments either.

      The comment you made “In several other countries, anyone making these comments would be prosecuted,” is my concern. How can we say equal rights for one group and take it away from another group. When a pastor/minister refuses to marry a same-sex couple is it going to end in their prosecution because they chose to exercise their right to follow their faith?

      Before I go any further I am a Christian. I could discuss theology all day about same sex marriage but the more pressing concern I’m thinking about is my right to do just that, discuss and talk about my faith with whom ever, where ever, and when ever I like.

      Also as a Christian I am a follower of Jesus. Jesus loved and had a heart for people from all walks of life but he hated sin. How it separates us from a loving God that wants to know us. God loved us so much that he gave us free will to choose. In the spirit of free will if same-sex marriage is passed I won’t fight the Government’s decision even though that’s a discussion for another day but what needs to be discussed is true equality between the church and the LGBT community because that’s what its going to come down to.

      Just serving food for thought.

      • Be Realistic says:

        I agree (in part with what you are saying). Religious freedom, sexual freedom, along with racial harmony, women’s rights…we could discuss all day.

        I do not, however, think that this should necessarily be down to a gay v church issue. Marriages can take place as civil ceremonies – in the UK,70% of weddings were civil in 2013 rather than in a church (or other religious establishment)

        I think it should be a vicar, pastor, rabbi’s right to refuse based on religious belief but the state should accept that they have a moral duty to apply equal standards across the board.

      • dream says:

        nobody but you cares what god you pray to. get it now?

      • john says:

        simple truth like that does not interest them. they want to use the power of the state to “legalize” them and then they want to use the power of that state against you and anyone else who objects to their lifestyle. They hate God and therefore seem to want to spite him and his followers. The next step for them will be suing pastors who do not want to perform marriage rites for them and things like suing a baker who doesnt want to bake them a gay themed cake.

    • Keepin' it Real!...4Real! says:

      It’s called freedom of speech…which is diminishing daily…and I’m not happy about someone else dictating to my thought patterns …I like many others are quite capable of living my life with out your rules n regulations…my god who do you think you are??

      • Mike Hind says:

        Please tell me you see the irony in this post, denouncing rules and regulations that affect how people live their lives, after posting what you posted…

  32. Faulk says:

    I trust the good minister will also,take it under her wing to address the horrible discrimination and hate that trans persons, especially male to female, endure from females, and from feminists in particular. This cisexim (that is what it is called) did not originate here but seems to have been very much embraced by many local women. It would be huge if Minister Pamplin would point out that trans people are very much sisters too in the battle for equality.

    • swing voter says:

      so we can assume your main grip is with which bathroom you’re allowed to use?

  33. Faulk says:

    Your empathy undoubtedly knows no bounds, but trite comments couched as cuteness do not a make for a better and more just state of affairs.

  34. bermy Bud says:

    U betta legalize gunja before u do this!!

  35. Mike Hind says:

    Has anyone given a sane reason for opposing marriage equality that doesn’t involve forcing someone else to follow the rules of your personal choice of religions?

    Not conspiracy theories, not baseless, evidence less “history” lessons, not redefining marriage to stipulate procreation as an integral part, not baseless claims of religious persecution…

    Just a sane, real reason to oppose this?

  36. Coffee says:

    Why mention Julian Hall , why build your case on the back of President Obama ? Couldn’t you find/quote other influential people who make up the majority of the 300 million in America ? Disproportionately people of color are represented in this LGBT agenda . . Why ?

    Glaringly obvious that no representative of the RACE that mostly adheres to this alternate lifestyle was even mentioned !

    Let it be said that Bermuda doesn’t have the monopoly on this phenom , Bermuda seems to take its lead from the think tanks of the UK and the USA .

  37. laRoot says:

    These meetings will not be a discussion because a discussion means ‘the action or process of talking about something, typically in order to reach a decision or to exchange ideas’. The minute ONE person says they do not agree with same-sex marriage for whatever reason, then they will be bullied and labeled and homophobe. They (LGBTQ) want EVERYONE to hear what they have to say and how they feel, but refuse to listen to anyone else if they are not in agreement. This is not a meeting – it’s a platform. Do not be fooled.

    • Mike Hind says:

      Well, what reason, other than homophobia or demanding that other people obey the laws of someone else’s choice of religion, is there to oppose marriage equality?

      What other reason is there to not agree with it?

      • laRoot says:

        You’ve just proved my point.

        • Mike Hind says:

          I note you didn’t answer the question… Interesting, that.

        • Mike Hind says:

          And your silence shows exactly how little you actually value discussion…

          • laRoot says:

            No, my silence actually means I have a life outside of bernews and the blogs. I will respond to your question/statement with a statement. Everyone says that the church and state are separate. That the church should mind its own business. However, Bermuda, being a British Colony, is not American-led. Church & State is a US concept. The church is head of state in British society. We are making arguments where there are none to be had. As for the issue of homosexual marriage, it is going to happen and I will learn to coexist but I do not and will not agree with it.

  38. Yawn says:

    Can we talk about our failing education system?

  39. Mike Hind says:

    And, just as a note… Churches perform weddings, not marriages.

  40. Mike Hind says:

    It’s amazing how vocal these religious folks are when they think they have a point, but, when faced with a simple question, the silence is deafening. Argument after argument gets disproved, talking point after talking point gets debunked, question after question gets answered. But you ask THEM one simple question and they disappear like roaches when the lights are turned on.

  41. Cow Polly says:

    You know it’s a bit like selling liquor on Sunday’s, we debated it for years, the churches venomously opposed it, finally the legislation went through and the sun still rose in the East the next day. The hypocrisy of it all is, have ya noticed how many of those same church goers are in the supermarkets dressed in their Sunday best with a case of beer in their shopping cart? Just sayin’

  42. Coffee says:

    Just the thought of same sex marriage is repulsive to me . If I had to vote , it would be no . I don’t think it should be recognized as a traditional marriage as in man/woman …. Something’s in society must remain , for lack of a better word/phrase , sacred.

    However , I do agree that a type of civil contract that clearly defines the financial and health related familial responsiblities , i.e , insurance , pensions etc. should be available to same sex couples who love each other .

    • Mike Hind says:

      So… You think they should be allowed to get married, just not call it that? Did I read that right?

      Isn’t that just “separate but equal”?

      • Coffee says:

        No .. Not at all . A contract with beneficiary rights and privileges that would be recognized in any jurisdiction , without the benefit of marraige , more or less a business arrangement .

        • Mike Hind says:

          But… They’re not looking for a business arrangement. They’re looking for equal rights. Why this refusal to call it a marriage? Why does your personal repulsion have anything to do with someone else’s relationship? Would you be ok with someone else’s revulsion affecting whether you can have equal rights? Whether you can share your life with the person you love?

    • Zevon says:

      What you’re describing is marriage.

      • Coffee says:

        It’s a thin line between love and hate . What I’m describing is the thin line between matrimony and partnership .

        • Mike Hind says:

          So… Separate but equal.

          Why the reticence to call it a marriage?

          • Coffee says:

            A civil union is as far as I’ll go … Over and out !

            • Zevon says:

              But marriage is a civil union. Nothing more, nothing less.
              Over and out.

            • Mike Hind says:

              Thanks for clearing that up. It comes as absolutely no surprise that you support discrimination.

              • Coffee says:

                And it comes as no surprise that you wouldn’t let some one have an opinion that doesn’t quite aligned with yours so you resort to hate speech . Stop reaching , accept it that the definition of marriage differs in every culture .
                If our legislators vote to recognize same sex marriage , then by law it will be recognized by the electorate , if not then count me out . I’m a law abiding citizen of Bermuda and to my knowledge same sex marriage isn’t yet law .

                • Mike Hind says:

                  How am I “not letting”you have an opinion? Pointing out that your opinion is discriminatory isn’t stopping you from having it.
                  And what exactly did I say that was hate speech? When did I resort to hate speech? In reality, supporting the refusal of equal rights, calling it “repulsive” and promoting a separate but equal “solution” I far closer to hate speech than anything I said.
                  Not surprising that you don’t understand that.

  43. SMH2 says:

    Sounds rather like saying that some people can ride at the front of the bus but others must ride at the back of the bus…..