Drug Testing MPs, Decriminalization Discussion
In the early hours of Saturday morning, a motion was brought forward in the House of Assembly for MPs to be subjected to random drug testing policy.
Public Safety Minister Michael Dunkley said: “In an era when we speak about personal responsibility and at every turn encourage young people in particular to make positive lifestyle choices, the implementation of a drug testing regime for members of the Legislature makes Bermuda a trailblazing parliamentary democracy. We are not just talking the talk but we can show that we are prepared to walk the walk.”
The full motion reads:
In an effort to ensure that Bermuda’s Legislature meets the highest standards of governance for democratic legislatures and in order to lead by example; be it resolved that this Honourable House approve and adopts a mandatory random drug testing policy for Members of the Legislature and that a Joint Select Committee be appointed to consider and determine the specifics, implementation and monitoring of the said policy.
The Minister also said, “Whilst not covered specifically by this Motion, I think it is necessary to acknowledge the public debate in Bermuda and overseas that surrounds the use of marijuana. Without going into too much detail on this matter I do feel it is important to signal to this Honourable House that I am prepared to begin a meaningful discussion on the decriminalization of marijuana in Bermuda.
“I do not support the legalization of this drug as I am not convinced that such a course is fit and proper for this country. I do take notice of the effect that a conviction for the youthful indiscretion of marijuana possession can have on our citizens and with that in mind a wider discussion on decriminalization must take place.
“There is some momentum surrounding the medical uses of marijuana and the relief that proponents say it brings to the sufferers of various diseases. This discussion cannot be discounted either and must also form part of a sensible, mature public discussion on these issues.”
I await Marc Bean’s statement that the PLP do not support the policy of drug testing “in principle”.
I see we can no longer use the U.S won’t like us excuse for marijuana anymore…. As state by state, they are moving toward full legalization for even recreational use.
No they are not… Medical only. Only 20 states for that.
Not just medical 2 states have legalised in November 2012 Washington State & Colorado. 15 states have decriminalised possession of small amounts of non medical. With recent news of America’s newest shutdown plans it looks inevitable that the rest of the state will start legalising especially since the estimate sales of cannabis in each legalised state would be close to $495 million annually according to government consultants.
Tommy, you do realise that decriminalising possession of small amounts does nothing to get that revenue redirected, don’t you? Decriminalisation doesn’t mean the government gets a penny. In fact, more people will try drugs, and the government will have to spend more on drug treatment programmes.
“Tommy, you do realize that decriminalizing possession of small amounts does nothing to get that revenue redirected”
That only depends on the laws set in place with decriminalization. Netherlands is the perfect example of how wrong you are. In Netherlands cannabis is still illegal but possession of 5 grams is decriminalized. Along with the decriminalized possession of a small amount it is tolerated for certain licensed establishments to sell up to 5 grams to a person. Netherlands generates billions of euros in revenue off of yearly licensing fees from these shops plus a taxed percentage on every gram sold. The reason they went with decriminalization & toleration instead of legalization was to stay in good terms with the almighty America. I realize legalization is the better way to go so there is no grey area but when dealing with superpowers small countries must tread lightly.
As for more people trying drugs thats just ridiculous since people all have different taste & just like some don’t drink alcohol while others do its the same. There wouldn’t be an increase in addicts who need treatment because studies have shown that cannabis is not addictive. In fact there would be less teens trying cannabis if the Netherlands way was done because teens are not allowed in the cannabis cafe & the police pop by routinely to check IDs. In Netherlands if even one teen under 18 is found in a cannabis cafe the owner gets their license taken & never gets it back. There are a limited amount of licenses & they are all claim so no one can get around losing theirs.
In the NL the government revenues from cannabis are minimal, not billions. The cafes are small-time businesses, and there are only about 700 of them in the whole country. In 2010 the owner of the largest coffee shop was fined 10m Euros and sentenced to prison for breach of NL drug laws.
The reasons behind the laws in NL were never to raise government revenue. It was to reduce the public nuisance caused by drugs, and to reduce drug related crime. It has succeeded in neither case. In particular, drug gangs and drug-related organised crime are a worse problem now than they ever were.
And why can’t those be reasons for here?
And, as with gaming, the revenues would also increase from tourism and entertainment and increasing the value of our product.
Eventually, of course.
Initially, I think decriminalization, so that young folks’ lives aren’t ruined for a victimless crime, and, from there, as western society progresses, move towards controlled legalization – along the same lines as alcohol.
He was using NL as an example. They sound great reasons, but they didn’t work, as I said in my post. It isn’t a victimless crime.
Having a small twist of pot isn’t a victimless crime?
How? Huh?
As I typed before you have no clue on this subject. Here’s an article that has no bias of being a pro cannabis site. This article & there are many more that proves the coffee shops are a billion dollar maker. I don’t even know why I have to prove this anyway since most people already know dutch coffee shops are the main tourist attraction in NL.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/netherlands/9231609/Dutch-courts-move-to-ban-marijuana-cafes.html
You are correct about why NL went with their cafes but wrong about coffee shops failure in curbing drug related crime. It did reduce crime for many years & thats why they remained in operation. The crime that is put on the coffee shops is the export of its product to other countries which is not its fault but that of tourist who bring weed back. This is like if America blamed Bermuda for selling banned cuban cigars or kinder surprise that ended up on their shores. Most of these false claims of public nuisance & crime come from Maastricht & no other province. Maastricht has been brain washed by the neighbouring countries & religious propaganda from the christian democrat party. Anyone who has lived in NL knows the real problem with crime & nuisance is generated from the red light districts where drunken tourist stumble out of bars in large groups to glare & hoot at the ladies in the windows & buy hard drugs from turkish & somalian gangs in that area.
The above was @ Sandy Bottom
I said they are moving toward that Please re-read my post. And they are indeed moving toward that. This whole movement is happening exactly as prohibition of alcohol did. The states started legalizing alcohol slowly and the federal government gave up thus leaving up to the states. The federal government currently said it will no longer interfere with state decisions in regard to marijuana. Thus, most states will move in that direction in the next couple of years. Bermuda is way behind.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/22/colorado-marijuana-poll_n_3799057.html
I think you guys should keep up on current events if you are going to discuss this topic.
http://news.yahoo.com/legal-marijuana-most-states-head-way-140307734.html
Medicinal use yes. Rec use NO. However, we all know that the system is abused and most users claim to have some type of ailment.
I support decimalization. Not Legalization.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/22/colorado-marijuana-poll_n_3799057.html
I think you guys should keep up on current events if you are going to discuss this topic.
The United States Federal Government officially still considers Pot illegal and you can be prosecuted by federal Agencies such as the DEA, FBI, etc.. even while in a state that has made it 100% legal. Although the Fed has made it a low priority to enforce.
I would bet the USA would bully any country that stepped up first to fully legalize but I think with the current global climate wouldn’t push it to far. However it could be damaging to international treaties, organizations, agreements and such that Bermuda is a signatory of.
I say baby steps. Lets stop arresting for personal possession first… make it an lower priority for the police here and see where we go. Fine don’t bind!!
And if an MP is ever found to test positive for THC then maybe they should consider decriminalizing marijuana,tax and make millions. People will smoke it regardless of the law so just milk it much as u can with taxes and permits to sell. Just an opinion.
You’re right, Govt should be should be looking at ways to increase revenue through the decriminalization of marijuana.
If a tax on herb affects its final price in the same way as the tax affects the final price on booze my guess is there’ll be a whole lot of unhappy campers out there .
Just look at the price difference in a 1 litre bottle of rum duty free and at local retail.
It will still be much cheaper than street price because its is not regulated & dealers will charge whatever they like. Interviews have been done with dealers in America & when all were asked if they think they would like legalisation none said yes because all agree that they would lose their market to cheaper prices. Dealers already find this happens when FDA approves a drug they have been selling on the black market pre approved.
If you think that once government gets its hands on the flow and control of the stuff and can tax it that the price will go down you’re really dreaming.
As another example , do you know what the cost of gas is pre-tax ?
Sure government burns us big time with taxes but just imagine if gas was illegal & controlled by parkside gang. Parkside would charge whatever they want for an inconsistent amount of gas & would sometimes not even except money for it but instead want other favours even less desirable then giving in a whole pay check.
But boozer IS legal and look at what tax does to its final price.
If herb is ever made ‘legal’ (a completely different thing than ‘decriminalized’) expect it to cost at least twice as much as it currently does.
But hey , at least you wont have to worry about big brother when you purchase or use like imbibers now enjoy.
Even if your prediction is true I would welcome the higher prices as the trade off of the security you mentioned.
At the moment I wait for my trips to Netherlands to partake so to avoid risks. In Netherlands I can be charged up to 35 euro for some high quality stuff which is a steep price but worn it. There is cheaper there but it doesn’t stretch as far because it is much weaker. At the end of my trips I always end up giving away surplus to my friends there because it is too strong to finish all at once & as we all know I can’t take it back with me. Im fine with waiting for my trips because when I see the crap my friends get here it becomes a turn off & a health risk of mould in my lungs that I’m willing to avoid.
I think everyone is forgetting that if cannabis would ever be legalized then people could grow their own and it would be free. Unlike making alcohol, cannabis grows quite easily and is relatively low maintenance if you are only growing a couple of plants. Many people make their own wine, distill their own beer, and growing your own weed would be just like growing your own vegetables and herbs.
I believe it all comes down to the context and form that our ‘Legalization’ would take , if it were ever legalized . Again, not to be confused with decriminalization.
I doubt that if it would ever be legalized it would be as simple as people just suddenly being allowed to grow it in their backyards (what little bit of backyards and arable land that do still exist) .
I’m sure a nice expensive license with all sorts of regulations would come with it .
And as soon as anyone finds out you have the stuff growing well you can rest assured that it will be getting ripped off by the night farmers. Just ask anyone who’s attempted to grow citrus in sight of a main road what happens. And you know de herb is gonna be a lot more desirable than some undersized oranges and grapefruit .
While I understand Minister Dunkley has responsibility for NDC under his Ministry, I do think this type of legislation should have been led by Premier Cannonier as he is the Leader of the Country and this is supposed to cover the entire Parliament. However, I listened to most of the House debate on Friday and he did not contribute much at all.
Well maybe its about time Bermuda got with the rest of the world and joined the year 2013.
Our drug laws are similar to the drug laws in the middle east and india.. Only difference is we have the stop list, not the death penalty.
That’s a BIG difference! As far as getting with the rest of the world most of the world still prohibits the use of weed. Maybe you limit your world to Europe and North America.
I don’t want my doctor, teacher, lawyer or legislature using drugs, even if it’s recreational. These sorts of professions should be held to a higher standard.
I see where you’re coming from youngster, however, chances are your Doctor, teacher, lawyer, etc, has probably been “blazing” for years. You would be surprised at the amount of professionals that smoke on a regular basis.
Do you mean on the job? Of course they can’t smoke on the job just like they don’t drink on the job. They drink/smoke after work hours and it should be perfectly fine.
You missed – Police, Fire Service & All Hospital employees…
If a doctor, teacher, lawyer or legislature drinks alcohol in their spare time they are already using drugs recreationally. Then there’s prescribe antidepressant that are opiate derivatives which are sometimes used legally during working hours.
The vast majority of us have used a drug before we even reach teenage. The preteen drug most of us have used is chocolate which may seem slight but hundreds die from caffein overdoses yearly & many are addicted to it & will have withdrawal symptoms if they don’t have it.
The key to dealing with drugs is education & moderation not prohibition.
All talk by Minister Dunkley.
Lots of talk and little action.Minister Dunkley loves addressing the press and making promises that lead to very little.Apologising and feeling sorry for victims does not cut it.Get tough on those who commit crimes so that Bermuda will be safer.These press sound bites lead to nothing being changed.
Decriminalize Marijuana so our children will not be made criminals for possession of a joint.Crack down on dope (cocaine and heroin) dealers.If you get caught with a joint a small fine is sufficient,but do not make someone a criminal.Not legalization but take the criminal aspect out of possessing up to a gram of herb,so that no more of our people will be disenfranchised for something that is turned a blind eye to or even legal,in other jourisdictions.
Just do it!
Michael is DOING what was promised. The PLP just talked about it!
The harm caused by weed being illegal is far greater than the harm caused by using it. If you use weed, you “may” be harmed. If you are caught with it, your life “will” be ruined. Ridiculous.
I agree with # youngsters…
Drug usage reveals a significant problem with the individual taking them -they are not content in their own mind/body and seek refuge from their shortcomings via an external poison – lets face it, that is what drugs are – a poison.
Its kind of like a person with tatoos or piercings they look at themselves in the mirror and say “how can I make my self look better or unique” – when the answer to that lies within really…
Druggies are the same way – weak and irresponsible – too lacking in courage to tackle their problems head on…”so lets just slip away for a while in this haze – things of course will be better when we return”
The real questions we should be asking are why are we borrowing money from private entities to fund the gross government expendatures? Why if the copntainer shop stops coming could we not feed ourselves? Why considering how many bermudians are out of work are we not shipping low wage earners back off to thir homelands (than you for your impeccible services by the way) and filling those jobs with Bermudians (through their suffering with a lack of employment)now see the light – why could it not be legislated that if you earn – lets say under $80,000 a year you have to be Bermudian or married to one – bottom line.
We talk about the economy yet fail to address how much money is being sent “home” by our guest workers – if Bermudians had those jobs that money would circulate here more (with the occaisional expenditure in a New Jersey mall or a Sex vacay in the DR of course…) but it is a start at least.
I can tell you have no tattoos and have never smoked weed. Ignorance at it’s best.
I do not. But I respect the freedoms of those who do.
I have not – I am sorry you life is incomplete without a smoke…my txpaying dollars and insurance premiums going to support your lazy carcinogine filled a**!
Oh yeah. It’s just plain ignorant to have no tattoos and avoid smoking weed. Some people are so ignorant that they’ve have never snorted cocaine either, if you can believe it.
What is the problem with tattoos? How does it relate?
Part of the discussion raised by Rule No 5 and Come Correct.
I know where it’s from. Just wondering what the opposition to it is and how having tattoos relates to drugs….
No its plain ignorant to think that people with tattoos are unhappy with their body. I have over $2000 worth of ink and artistic skill in my body and not once did anything remotely close to the words above go through my mind. I have my reasons why I did it and just like smoking weed it’s a choice and it’s not for everyone. Another display of ignorance would be saying you respect the freedoms of those who do and then go on to call a person lazy when you have no idea about any aspect of their life. When I wear a shirt all of my ink is covered so I’m at least presentable to jobs, I also only smoke at night so it doesn’t affect my producivity during the day but tarring everyone with the same brush isn’t ignorant all right?
I must say your comment hit the nail on the head we have a government that does not care about us the premier’s gas stations have buzz in them so what does tell you
We haven’t had a government that cared about us in a very long time if ever. UBP, PLP, OBA. Different partiers different people. All serving themselves first.
Druggies;a term utilized by the addicts of legal drugs to make themselves, and gullible individuals,feel superior to anyone using illegal drugs.They kick back on the sofa with a stiff drink (or a glass of wine)and a cancer stick and laugh when a druggie is arrested and prosecuted,”weak and irresponsible”they chuckle to themselves,”too lacking in courage(liquid?)to tackle their problems head on.”The Misuse of (some)Drugs Act is what enables this extreme hypocrisy to flourish,those whose drug of choice is legal can look down their noses at “them” it needs to be repealed,decriminalization is a stalling tactic and I am not aware of anything like alcohol or sodomy that were decriminalized for small amounts.Free the herb.
I take it you’re a druggie then?
QUESTION: What do Steve Jobs, Carl Sagan, Stephen Jay Gould, Francis Crick, Margaret Mead, Andrew Weil, Kary Mullis, Oliver Sacks, Richard Feynman & Sergey Brin all have in common?
ANSWER: They are all highly intelligent, successful & all have admitted to smoking cannabis & seeing nothing wrong with it.
I wonder how you would stack up to these successful people you have defined so prejudicially as druggies.
Don’t forget the Great Sir Richard Branson!
Definitely can’t forget Sir Richard. If anyone has the courage to tackle their problems head on it’s him. Wonder what Rule # 5 thinks of one of their so called, “druggies” not only being knighted by the queen but has broken six world records & given millions to some of the most proactive charities out there.
THEY ALL ADMITTED USING IT YES, HOWEVER, THEY WERE SMART ENOUGH TO GIVE IT UP BEFORE THEIR BRAINS TURNED TO MUSH!!!!
How do you know they gave it up? Sir Richard Branson admits to still using it on occasion & so do others.
I’ll bet Rule #5 will give the same speech with a dark and stormy or glass of wine in his/her hands.
Prescription drugs and alcohol are the two worst drugs worldwide yet they are legal. Marijuana will neither be legalized or decriminalized in Bermuda. Not when it will affect the pockets of the big stake-holders who own and operate these “LEGAL DRUG” companies, especially alcohol. Surely they will have their say.
Its really all about the dollar. Alcohol has been proven to be a factor in most fatal traffic accidents yet its advertised more therefore we consume more. Alcohol has destroyed many families not to mention health.
Prescription drugs are just as bad. The side affects( there are many labeled) cause other ailments again requiring you to return to the doctor for more medication and its a never ending cycle. You wind up with four or five medications for four or five ailments and who benefits? How many of us are operating vehicles under prescription drugs? Many advise against driving not only because of impairment but the danger the other side affects can present.
I don’t understand why the best medicine for MOST diseases and ailments is ILLEGAL?
I understand that some prescriptions are needed for certain people but there are also a lot of NATURAL alternatives, one just has to research.
ya rule #5 is never read anything on cannabis cause some of the smartest people i.e steve jobs,bill gates,ted turner and barack obama have all smoked cannabis and look where they are today. so is it the plant making people a certain way or is it some people are a certain way no matter what drugs they do
So… of all the people that have contributed to the advancement of mankind over the Millenia that is the names you can come up with? How about all the great minds that didn’t smoke that crap. Typical druggie..you need to find (a limited) number of successful people to justify it being okay to do. Meanwhile there are millions doing just fine with out it. Toughen up cupcake.
Do you go in the bars & stand on your soap box preaching to the ones who drink their carcinogine filled beverages or are you one of the sheep who can’t say baaaaah when it comes to the majority.
well all i can say to you and the other millions of people who don’t and you are all so fine with out it why do you care if other want to legalize it,how is my cannabis smoke affecting you,your taxes go up because of legality not cannabis it self and as for your insurance don’t get me started on the biggest licence to steal business around
Your cannabis smoke affects me when people break into houses and mug people on the street, and then want the court to be lenient because they have a “drug habit”. yeah, great excuse. Forgive me for being a thief, I’m only doing it because I like illegal drugs.
lmao , just stop it now you are embarrassing yourself. Your ignorance on the subject is laughable at best. NO one robs people for weed, it is not crack, but people do steal to get their alcohol fix as that is an actual physically addictive substance unlike cannabis.
You assume people commit crimes because of cannabis but there are many studies that have proven this is false. Cannabis has been scientifically proven non addictive. People commit crimes to get money for hard drugs not cannabis.
Oh really. How do they get onto those “hard drugs” then?
maybe the have a sandy bottom
Same way people start anything. A friend suggests it to them & they accept so they can be like them. Stepping stone theory of cannabis holds no logic because hard drugs & cannabis have totally different make ups & don’t cause the same effects when taken.
Gateway drugs. Like alcohol. Banning that worked so well the last time.
Really? Beer and wine to crack cocaine, a logical progression?,
I don’t see it.
But one day you buy weed, the next day you get offered ecstasy, and then one day you get offered cocaine. I can see that.
Ethanol to crack cocaine is far more logical than cannabis leading to hard drugs. During Americas prohibition of alcohol people were getting their booze from pharmacies not a farmer with a bail of hops & grapes.
“But one day you buy weed, the next day you get offered ecstasy, and then one day you get offered cocaine. I can see that.”
This is a circle created by the laws that are supposed to protect against the circle but not everyone who smokes weed is part of this circle. There are many cannabis users who have never done any other hard drugs besides alcohol & tobacco.
Are you serious? You can see the “gateway drug” argument from pot to coke, but not from alcohol?
Seriously?
Wow. That boggles my mind.
It’s hard to buy crack cocaine at a restaurant.
It’s pretty easy to get another drug selection from your street supplier.
WOW.
This is some of the most bizarre logic I’ve ever heard.
I don’t know what else to say to you about this.
Why is it bizarre? Doesn’t involvement with illegal drugs present opportunity to buy more illegal drugs?
Has the word no ever left your mouth? I was at a BAR once and was asked if i wanted to join in a coke “spliff”…. I said no….tada! Magic trick.
you just gave a reason why people need to have all drugs legal you wouldn’t have anyone breaking in houses no mugging and no need for court to be lenient. as long as drugs are in hands of gangsters they keep prices high and keep the whole cycle repeating it self which you must really enjoy
All the more reason people should be allowed to grow their own plants for personal use.
Toughen up cupcake? That is your response? How much booze do you drink rule #5? I suspect a great deal because only a self righeous drunk would spew your silly nonsense.
If I hear another person regurgitate the drug hysteria induced mantra concerning decrim,s possession of small amounts for young offenders I,m going to vomit.This ridiculous idea is wrong on so many levels,first decrim does not address the supply,therefore even young first time offenders would still be supporting international smuggling rings,second why would sensible people limit people to small amounts of something that has never killed anyone and is currently saving lives when i can load my car to the roof with deadly drugs like cigarettes and alcohol since there are no laws to stop anyone over 18 from doing so.Furthermore is there no such thing as old first time offenders maybe seeking relief from an ailment?Clogging the courts with people who eat smoke or grow herb is wrong and wasteful.
SO who here buys and smokes an illegal substance, own up, because it is you that is funding gangsters! I’m curious what the churches all think of this…thy are so vocal about other things.
Are you referring to Marijuana? A plant? That starts from seeds?? That was on earth long before man?? Trust me its not MARIJUANA that’s funding these gansters I bet you they are smoking more than they are selling!!
Heroin and cocaine start from seeds. Should they be freely available as well?
Heroin and cocaine are highly refined. Sure the main ingedient comes from a seed, but certainly NOT the only one. Poor argument.
Nope. Heroin, cocaine, opium, all come from natural plants. They start from seeds. It’s an argument that show how stupid the “weed is natural” argument is.
Please do some research before you type so you don’t put your foot in your keyboard like you just did. Besides opium you are comparing heroin & cocaine both have been chemically altered to cannabis which has been unaltered. Even though opium is the closest as a natural form it still is slightly altered & is ten times stronger than cannabis. What your doing is like comparing grape juice to whine.
They all come from natural plants that start from seeds. God made them all, apparently. So churches should support them, if God made them.
Sure all came from natural plants that start from seeds but some were extremely altered. Not sure how God feels about extreme alterations of Godly creations but I do know the human body responds a heck of a lot better to cannabis then them. Maybe a perforated septum & tooth decay is Gods way of saying, “If it isn’t broken don’t try to fix it.”
Does the human body react ok to hemlock, ricin, tomato leaves, rhubarb leaves?
Ricin is not a plant its a derivative of a castor oil plant which is less toxic than pure ricin. I do admit castor beans are poisonous just as hemlock, tomato leaves, rhubarb leaves are but someone is more likely to survive ingestion of them than the ingestion of extracted poison by itself. All these you mentioned are proven to be severely more toxic than any part of the cannabis plant but all are legal to have in Bermuda while cannabis isn’t. Thanks for proving how ridiculous the prohibition of cannabis is compared to protecting people from the lethal tomato leaf. WELL DONE!
…and are processed and processed and processed.
You can’t compare. You just can’t.
Which means what?
There are numerous plants that are poisonous in their natural state. Suggesting that “it’s natural so it must be fine” is just plain idiotic. There are plenty of plants that will kill you if you consume them. Try having some natural hemlock salad with that natural cannabis.
Just as you can’t compare poisonous plants to non poisonous ones…
Mike, the contention is that cannabis is natural, so its consumption can’t be harmful, and its use should be encouraged. Because it grows naturally.
But the fact that it is natural has no bearing on whether its use should be encouraged. It no bearing on its safety or desirability. It is completely irrelevant. There are many examples of naturally occurring plants that cannot be safely consumed.
I don’t disagree. But the way the point is being made is off-base.
Cannabis on any toxicity chart made is shown to be less toxic than any other legal drug besides caffeine.
Sandy, weed is grown, harvested, dried and then used. The other drugs you mention are refined and have numerous other chemicals added to get it into a paste and then eventually a powdered form. Then it is always “stepped on”, ie other powders (orgins usually very dubious)added to reduce the amount of actual drugs and to increase profits. Alcohol is essentially based in nature…organic material that is left to ROT and then made into a liquid. You just can’t compare weed with any of them in terms of natural vs unnatural.
Which is exactly the reason it needs to be legalized. Then the money would go towards retail businesses and Government. Both of which are having a hard time making enough revenue.
What proof do you have that gangsters are the only ones who sell illegal substances? The fact is that there are more people who are non gang related in west gate for illegal substances than ones in gangs. Most who rep a gang are in for other crimes so the question you should ask is WHY is this so.
Another question you should ask yourself if your worried about gangs is why would a government support prohibition when it has been proven to be the main instigator of organised crime.
Another question I have is why would churches be against cannabis? If all plants were created by God why would the church support making God’s creation illegal? Even Jesus first miracle was to change water into a man made drug so what would God have against using a drug created by the creator?
Ok. Using this “logic” the churches would be ok with widespread heroin use, right? And crack cocaine, crystal meth, etc.? Yep, I can see churches getting right into that.
They shouldn’t have a problem with any of it since there is nothing in the commandments that says any of it is against God’s law. The problem with some religions is they start to pull rules out of thin air just to suit the creator of the religion’s own belief. King Henry viii influence on twisting the biblical law is case & point of this. Bunch of hypocrites judging others as comparison to themselves when they are not God & by doing so have broke the first commandment & also turned their back on someone in need of compassion & guidance.
Listen suzie, you know nothing about this subject. Those drugs you just mentioned have more in common with alcohol than cannabis. Cannabis is more comparable to ginseng or coffee.
No, Suzie is right. Heroin, cocaine, opium, all come from plants, purportedly created by God. So the church must support them all, right? Using Tommy Chong’s argument. Everyone will be in church shooting up heroin and doing lines. Because God created the seeds that they come from.
I was being facetious when I made that comment to highlight how absurd it is to bring religious beliefs that can’t even be agreed on from one denomination to the next in as a part of logical debate.
I think Sandy Bottom and Suzie are just trolling, they can’t be so serious.
I’m not sure of YOUR logic here.
He was speaking about how pot is natural. You reference drugs that aren’t natural…
Opium, heroin and cocaine all come from naturally occurring seeds. And there are lots of poisonous plants. The fact that something occurs naturally has no bearing on whether it is safe or desirable to consume it. It’s a completely spurious argument.
What part of they all have other chemicals added to make them what they are can’t you get past? Raw opium is not heroin, it is opium and can be used….wait for it…as opium. Heroin is literally just a cut down version of the highly addictive painkiller hospitals use. You can OD on the medical version and the street version is worse due to all the added chemicals to cut it down. It is literally impossible to OD on marijuana, you fall asleep first. Suzie even threw meth in there…like really?! Meth can kill you in more ways than one just by making it. What does that tell you? The only thing I add to weed is a flame. Healthy? No, but as we saw in the news not too long ago the government has a problem with vaporizers and due to prohibition smoking marijuana is the most cost effective way of using it, if it were legal we would have more choice in the way we consume it, but trying to classify marijuana with other chemically altered drugs is a bit ridiculous. You say rhubarb leaves are poisenous, yea we figured that out years ago so you don’t eat it, weed is not so whats the issue? People still eat the most poisenous puffer fish on the planet but you don’t have to, to each their own.
Thank you for the logical response to Sandy Bottom’s overtly emotional posts that do nothing to contribute to a logical honest discussion on marijuana prohibition.
i do and the only reason i fund gangsters is because small minded people like hmmm can’t see as long as cannabis is illegal you have to get your cannabis from gangster just like alcohol before gov changed the laws so don’t blame me for your gangster problems when you and others who think like you are to blame for every shooting in this island
Smoking herb made Michael Phelps so lazy,unmotivated and laid back that this stoned loser won how many gold medals at the Olympics?Imagine ganjaphobes explaining this to their children!
Rule #5 sounds very quick to judge from a high horse, but I wonder if Rule#5 has any assortment of legalised aka societal approved by the big money makers (bigga-heads) drug in the medicine cabinet, at home or at work, or makes use of any such items or supports the manufacture of such drugs that are seen on PIG – I mean BIG PHARMA (aka biggest money boys)infomercials…these items all sport a cavalry of chemical drugs that are known to have very serious and even detrimental side effects when put into use…it’s a darn shame that chemicals are made legal even though the manufacturers openly admit that they have highly be tragic consequences and yet nature is made illegal. Drug (ESP LEGALISED) industry: #Mo’ MONEY Mo’ POWER! that’s their MO!
*Warning label states: if you use this drug, side effects may diarrhoea, dysentery, back ache, heart ache, tooth ache, skin decay, stroke, high blood pressure, heart attack, nausea, death, etc..
If the OBA is talking about decrim of weed, then what could they be testing each other for?
Um… You DO understand that a. it’s still illegal and b. There ARE other illegal drugs out there… right?
Drug testing is still a farce like in Lance Armstrong’s case,not to mention that herb is utilized in the body for a month whereas most other drugs are quickly eliminated by the body making for a smaller window of opportunity to catch chemical abuse.Testing for employment discriminates on these grounds since individuals can be denied a job for smoking up to 30 days ago in their own home while the bosses use liquor to entertain business associates in their offices,but hey it’s legal.
That’s exactly the point. It’s legal. That’s why we need to look at decriminalization.
I thought decriminalisation was the best solution also till I spoke to a cannabis cafe owner in Netherlands about it. He broke it down for me & explained how decriminalisation is like being on a tall fence on a moonless night. It creates a lot of uncertainty & since it technically means the substance is still illegal it leaves room for the laws surrounding decriminalisation to seesaw. He explained how growers have to play a cat & mouse game with the police until they get their product to the cafe & how if you don’t own a scale to weigh what you have you run the risk of being arrested for being a milligram over.
I do agree decriminalisation is better than nothing but government will have to be careful about the laws it encompasses or mixed messages will come out of it & room will be left for the abuse of the law.
Baby steps…
Mike, why not just legalise and tax it through licensed shops/cafes? I see social and economic benefits.
That, of course, is the ultimate goal. But it’s gotta be taken slow. When you say “legalize it”, people picture kids walking down the street with spliffs in their mouths and doctors operating while sucking on a bong. Decriminalizing first means kids lives aren’t ruined for a twist. It normalizes it, which moves us closer to what you’re talking about (which I agree with, by the way)
I HOPE THEY DONT LEGALISE MARIJUANA!
Have you seen the affects of Marijuana compared to Alcohol????
I have seen guys hanging out and drinking together all of a sudden start fighting each other!! Whats bad about that?? Nothing!!
I have also witness friends smoking together and the unexpected happened….They started violently laughing and joking! Guess what happened after that? They decided that they were going to take out their happiness on some innocent prey…….THE MUNCHIES!!!
Now do we want these kinds of people roaming our streets!! I THINK NOT!!!
I know exactly what you mean. I’ve seen it also in cannabis cafes in Netherlands. People in these cafes playing chess & reading books while taking the occasional puff off their doobie. What’s wrong with these lightweights! To top it off they had a microscope to check out the resin crystals & the guy selling the stuff was so knowledgeable about the different strains explaining the scientific properties & all. It was like a geekfest & nothing like a bar. No one was spilling drinks on others & yelling profanities & instead they were having these philosophical intellectual conversations. No one was drying to get a grope off of some girl too intoxicated to notice instead they were talking respectfully to their female friends. No one was glaring at others & rudely bumping through groups instead they were smiling & saying excuse me when they went passed. Nothing wild & crazy happened at all just a bunch of people toking, smiling & conversing. Those cannabis cafe people have no idea how to party bermy style like a hardcore G pimping with a bottle of henny going down till you url all over someone.
To Suzie Q, and a few others…i think you are getting “education” mixed up with “intelligence”….two totally different entities…you may be educated but you are definitely not intelligent.
Well she seems to have asked some questions that are beyond your ability to answer, doesn’t she.
I answered her , and your points are based in the fact that you have been indoctrinated with misinformation your whole life. Weed is harmless, in fact it is much easier to overdose on water than weed and the narcotic effects are a lot weaker and less mind altering than alcohol, that is a fact. You keep bringing up the fact that some hard drugs are derived from plant sources as well so our opinion that weed is natural thus harmless is null in void. Yet you ignore the fact that these require multiple chemicals and processes to extract the narcotic alkaloids that most people could never replicate. Weed has no negative side affects, mellows the user and has multiple medical benefits. The main thin is you don’t have a right to tell others how they can live their life. Especially since you probably take far worse drugs on a daily basis( alcohol, prescription pain meds ect) making you a hypocrite and a bigot.
**** you, wanker. I have no daily alcohol or prescription meds. I’m no hypocrite. You’re the druggie, not me.
You apoear to have two identities on here, keepin it real and wake up. Why?
Try having some nice safe hemlock in your salad tomorrow. I’m sure it will be tasty and safe, since it occurs naturally. Also, have some raw rhubarb leaves. Eat the whole lot. Then let us know how safe and harmless things are when they’re natural.
Marijuana isn’t poisonous.
What I’m arguing against is the logic of, to quote the post above, “weed is natural thus harmless”.
To say “(insert plant name here) is natural thus harmless” is not factual, truthful, or logical. The fact that something occurs naturally has no bearing on its propensity to cause harm.
I’ll agree cannabis is not harmless but on the other hand the harm it can cause is less than tobacco & alcohol. As you stated already there are loads of deadly plants out there. These plants you mentioned are legal in Bermuda while cannabis which is far less toxic isn’t. If you cant see the hypocrisy in this than you don’t have the capacity to cary on the debate logically.
You totally miss the point don’t you.
There is no point just as it’s pointless comparing a viper to a garter snake this is the same.
she is trolling again
So we are all waiting for the war on poison ivy to start any day now.
But you can eat marijuana and its not poisonous. You are comparing toxic deadly plants to a nontoxic non deadly plant. Logic would dictate that the non toxic non deadly cannabis plant should not be illegal to grow in your garden along with all the other healing herbs.
you tell me what questions has this suzie asked that no one answer you need to check post as for bs theory you can get coke or heroin from a tree you are full of s*** go find that tree i like to see it
Like i said before….debating with unintelligent persons can be quite the task…how much scientific evidence will it take to prove to you all who are obviously adamant about your opinions which you have derived from false information pounded into your tiny ball of grey matter by your programmers…oh wait , i think im gone a little ahead of you already…let me dress back a bit and refer to what someone else has already said…alcohol is legal but not everyone drinks it…homosexuality is legal but not everyone partakes in it, so who or what gives you the right to vehemently oppose the use of marijuana..? are you being discriminatory..? All i have to say is that if you are against the usage of a natural herb…then you are oblivious to true facts and should not really be debating on this subject matter…we’re not here to argue but to enlighten the people who are still in the dark…my quote is “if your mouth is open then your ears are closed”.
question, if the gunga is decriminalized where would it come from. Let me see if i understand this. I can have a oz or half oz and that cool. Right? wouldn’t that make everyone want to get into the smuggling business. Who would care at the borders , cause it is decriminalized. This would only start a war in the underground. the only way for this to work is to legalize and gov make their money from license to grow and sell at business. The way things are going we might want to even think about export
The issue at hand is not so much about earning revenue.
It has more to do with decriminalizing something that has widespread use, thus making “criminals” out of those otherwise productive citizens.
Precisely why it needs to be legalized,careful the tides turning.
Sandy Bottom and others are ignorant at best!How is Marijuana a gateway drug? It has a totally different affect when smoked.People who use the hard drugs will tell you that marijuana is the last thing they want.If they don’t get their fix the next best thing is consumption of alcohol! I don’t know of any crack coke or Heroin users that race to buy weed if they cant get their drug of choice.Thats a fact!! I have worked with many drug addicts and have yet to come across one.I have yet to come across a weed smoker that cant get their smoke so decide to buy crack or Heroin.As a matter of fact from my studies working with addicts,majority have told me that they were under the influence of alcohol when they first used drugs. No one just wakes up and decides to use.Most would tell you that they were drinking and partying when they were introduced to drugs! I find it strange how some revert the attention away from the biggest drug(Alcohol)and that’s because they consume the”liquid of death”.You will find some addicts that started smoking weed then went on to harder drugs but it wasn’t the weed that led them it was their own curiosity.There are millions of smokers that have never tried hard drugs.Weed is as much of a gateway drug to addiction as a ceasar salad is the gateway to Obesity.I guess smoking cigarettes lead to smoking weed too huh?
@HubbaBubba:
Thanks for your sensible commentary. The problem we have with the marijuana issue is that those responsible for enacting relevant legislation are often those who are completely ignorant about the subject matter.
Throughout my lifetime, it seems our biggest drug problem is alcohol consumption.
We probably should be more concerned about making alcohol illegal!
PS: I know of many productive citizens who have smoked marijuana for dozens of years and believe it or not, some of them are the healthiest people I know – moderation seems to be the key!
http://news.yahoo.com/war-illegal-drugs-failing-study-223403964.html
I don’t think this is a discussion for people that are discussing emotional issues. This is a discussion for fact based information in order for it to be taken seriously. The fact that your brother died of a heroine overdose and his first drug was marijuana is an emotional argument that has nothing to do with marijuana prohibition. If you said he died of a marijuana overdose then I could kind of see the point. Marijuana is not a gateway drug and this has been proven over and over again. In fact, marijuana prohibition actually puts the user in a position to have access to harder drugs because it is being sold by a drug dealer. That is why people think it is a gateway drug when in fact its just another reason why marijuana should be legal and regulated. To stay away from shady drug dealers.
Whether a substance is harmful or toxic does not relate to its legality or illegality. If this was the case, alcohol, cigs, processed food, soda, energy drinks would all be illegal.
Sara I love your reasoning ,as for sandy bottom and suzie q they need to share a hemlock/tomato leaf smoothie PLEASE!!
I find it interesting and misleading that people are arguing that cocaine and Heroin are made from natural growing plants therefore supporting their arguments that not all natural growing plants are harmless. The keywords in their argument are MADE FROM. That suggests chemicals are used and extracted FROM these plants to make these drugs,it isn’t used in its natural form therefore it cannot be compared to marijuana.
Why do a few stubborn people continue to use the ” There are many plants that are poisonous in there natural form” theory to try and justify their beliefs. We are not talking about the consumption of LEGAL POISONOUS PLANTS in their natural form, we are talking about consumption of NON-POISONOUS LESS HARMFUL MARIJUANA PLANTS in its natural form that is ILLEGAL by law! I don’t know why WE are in here arguing with a few people that see nothing wrong with alcohol because its LEGAL and I guarantee you the same people arguing their points have wine cellars and cabinets full of “GRANDPAS OLD COUGH MEDICINE”
@wakeup made a comment that must have offended Sandy Bottom.Sandy bottom came back with a “****you wanker! Now does that sound like someone under the influence of alcohol?Judging by the time of the comment I would suggest it was “Bending the Elbow” time!
Why were you so offended BLOKE or LASS whatever you are!