Live Updates: Same Sex Marriage Gatherings
[Updating] Supporters of both the “Preserve Marriage” and “Love Wins” movements are expected to gather on the Cabinet Grounds today, with both having called for their supporters to come out at 12 noon.
“Preserve Marriage” — the group behind the petition opposing same sex marriage — asked “the public that is for marriage to remain between a man and a woman to come out to a peaceful demonstration,” while the “Love Wins” movement asked people who “support human rights for all” to also attend.
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Where is Love Wins permit? If they don’t have one they are illegally gathering in a public place!
They don’t need a permit to gather in a public place, just to march down a public street
Whether or not a permit was needed, this organization initiated their protest, and released a press statement without going through the proper procedures. This seems to be the approach they take on everything.
Do what you want to get what you want no matter what…
Oh, you know that’s not true. What proper procedures? Come on.
You’re just mad people dare speak out against you.
At least try to keep it honest.
Keep it honest.,, Mike take your own advice. You know full well that the organization opposing Traditional Marriage didn’t get police permission until the night before their protest.
They had a press release, signs made and a flag in tow long before it was put through the proper channels.
So, they DID go through proper channels… just not until the night before.
And what’s wrong with doing a press release, having signs made and borrowing flags before getting police permission?
Come on.
And for YOU to tell ANYONE to keep it honest is a laugh!
The point is that they circumvented protocol and invited the public to go along with them.
You calling me s liar doesn’t make you truthful.
No. Telling the truth does.
See, that’s how it works.
You tell lies, and have been exposed doing it many times.
Thus, you are, in fact, a dishonest person and a liar.
I, however, do not, have not and am not.
So… just curious…
Will you be offering a valid argument for continuing to deny people equal access to rights and privileges?
Or will you just continue pretending you didn’t read that question?
Did the “Love Wins” group have any permission whatsoever when they submitted their press release? The answer is no. They put the cart before the horse.
In terms of equal rights and privileges, if all people are created with equal rights and privileges, why do you continue fight for an institution that will subjugate children to the desires of consenting adults.
They do not need a permit to gather, only to march through the streets.
What’s love got to do with it.
LMFAO
I notice how most of the anti-equal rights people wore black….
Love that the couple celebrating their wedding anniversary were in support of equal rights…Congratulations to them.
Actually they were in support of Preserve Marriage. Please read the articles correctly.
So you disagree with hmmm and state that the couple were not in support of equal rights. You therefore agree that Preserve Marriage is against equal rights.
With that said, the couple were in fact in favor of equal rights, and therefore against Preserve Marriage. I know this because I spoke to them! F off!
Funny because I spoke to them as well. You heard what you wanted to hear. Oh and by the way, I do not receive your curse of me. No man can curse what God has blessed. Peace out!
I spoke to them too..They were in favour of equal rights.
I spoke to them as well ! I like what they said . They said ,” this has nothing to do with equal rights , this has everything to do with choice . I was intrigued !
Yes. Religion is a choice and is protected by the Human Rights Act.
So, even if someone’s sexual orientation WAS a choice, that wouldn’t be a reason to discriminate against them.
Which is what the law, as it exists now, does.
So you’ve departed from the ,”I was born this way” narrative ?
Do you just not actually read, “Coffee”?
“…even if someone’s sexual orientation WAS a choice…” is what I said. This is in no way saying that I’ve “departed from the “I was born this way” narrative.
I’m begging you. At least TRY some honesty.
Come on.
If God existed why is there still hundreds of millions of people starving in this world, slavery of all kinds, etc. I could go on and on…Got an answer or should I wait for His?
This is irrelevant and off-topic.
Attacking someone’s faith doesn’t help bring equality to the island.
People are starving around the world because all Governments like OBA who don’t care about helping their people , let stop the rascism and help the people in Bermuda. get them the jobs.
you are an idiot. i can’t believe you ACTUALLY think the OBA government doesn’t care about ALL the people of bermuda. you can’t even see that your OWN comments (which are clearly directed at who you think is an all white party, though it is not) ARE RACIST
can you not see that people standing up and refusing to be discriminated against is EXACTLY what the civil rights movement was all about? the application then has application now – same thing – it is absolutely unacceptable for it to be LEGAL to discriminate against someone for these reasons in this day and age. in fact, i think it is IRONIC that so many black people stand up in SUPPORT of this discrimination when all of us should understand completely that this is WRONG for the same reasons it was wrong to discriminate based on skin colour.
WAKE UP.
Those ills exist, because of man, not God. Man have become self centered, desiring to have everything there way, void of His instruction. If we take heed to His instruction, there would be enough food, money and resources for everyone.
And you are more than welcome to believe that. I support you in your right to believe that.
But… should everyone have to believe that, too?
whatwillittake
Awesome and sane response. It doesn’t really matter why the couple in the bridal gear was there.
Preserve Marriage was there to strengthen the integrity of a thousand or more year old institution.
The opponents of traditional marriage must realize that traditional marriage is the very institution that formed the foundation and infrastructure on which Bermuda is built.
Their parents, grandparents and great grandparents believed in preserving marriage too, or else we would’ve had this debate generations ago.
Nothing in here is true.
While we’re talking about preserving thousand year old traditions, I have to assume you would on that basis like to preserve the other traditions from the dark ages and the iron age? Genital mutilation, slavery, murder, rape, tribalism? Genocide, of course. And why not cannibalism…I believe that a long-standing tradition too, in some parts of the world.
What will it take..
Awesome response, in the end it doesn’t really matter why the couple dressed in bridal gear were there.
Preserve Marriage had the proper permission and was there to represent Traditional Marriage. The opponents of Traditional Marriage must realize that Traditional Marriage is the foundation and infrastructure on which Bermuda is built.
Traditional Marriage is the legacy many of their parents, grandparents, and great grandparents believed in and left to all of us.
Changing this legacy, reordering local infrastructure will have far reaching effects in every area…
Go to preservemarriage.bm look at resources
Another misrepresentation.
We don’t oppose “Traditional Marriage”.
We’re perfectly fine with it.
We just think keeping it as the ONLY option is wrong and discriminatory.
We’re not trying to get rid of “Traditional Marriage”, we’re just trying to give people other options.
It’s all just a play on words. From our mothers belly we were ALL born free….. Having equal rights. Men and women. What this gay group now desires is ‘special’, or more rights. More rights than another members in society. You now seek additional special rights. Rights that will legally allow you to live contrary to a civilized society. Have you live and do what all of humanity has frowned upon since the world began. You try to call it love… But in truth it is lust. A child….. Unless taught or trained to think differently will say that the gay way is nasty. We need society to vote. God is love…… Not lust.
Not true at all.
Trying to gain equal access to legal rights afforded by marriage to the rest of us is, by definition, trying for equality.
To paint it as trying to get “special rights” is the height of privileged misrepresentation.
We are the couple from the United Sates, we came to Bermuda to renew the vows we made to each other before God. Everyone should be given that right. To love and be loved by another human being. With that said, We support MARRIAGE …. Making a Commitment …. to the person we love …. we are NOT in support of living together…. Regardless if it is between man and woman or same sex unions.
Actually they were in support of Preserve Marriage
No they weren’t.
Solid
Does anyone need a permit? Nobody is blocking the street obstructing traffic. It is not like they are the BIU going on one of their impromtu strolls around Town. Do they ever get a permit to block the streets? Have they ever been prosecuted for doing so?
Agree or disagree with the two groups they are not bothering anyone outside of the Cabinet grounds though I’ll bet those newlyweds have a story to tell.
they are NOT newlyweds…clearly you didnt read the article by Bernews…typical of people today,see something and think they know what is happening
Oh my, so they are not. They reaffirmed their 25 year marriage. What a horrible mistake I made. Gosh, that just changes everything. What an earth shattering mistake I made.
Apparently it’s not just the freedom to love which is being questioned, but also freedom of speech (*shakes head*)
The Rainbow is the symbol of the gay community, and God said He sent a rainbow to show that He was not going to destroy the earth by water again but by FIRE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mmmmmmm
http://biblehub.com/genesis/9-13.htm
Check on one of the many versions of your bible.
God is good
A rainbow is visible as a result of light passing through, and then being reflected back through raindrops. The light therefore goes both ways. Since God created something that goes both ways. it makes sense that God also created people who can go both ways. God created gays therefore so it must be OK by him. I have just proven it. So stop the hate everyone – except Onion Juice. OJ you just need to stop the ignorance.
I guess you think we evolved from apes too.
Onion juice, you have not evolved. You never will.
We did not evolve from apes. We did, however, evolve from an ancestor which is common to both humans and apes.
Oh really, so what are you going to evolve too.
LMFAO
You know it is quite easy to make a rainbow…you can do it yourself with a garden hose and light.
So, I guess you believe God created murderers and thieves, too, right? Sin is a choice.Same sex relationships are a choice, just like to steal and to kill is a choice.
By beholding one becomes changed. With this said,the media has corrupted many minds to believe same sex relationships to be normal.
Stealing and killing have victims. They’re not in any way comparable to same sex marriage.
Come on.
You equate people to a rainbow – PRETTY DUMB!
You’re the last person I would expect to use European propaganda to make a point.
Thank you Bernews.
Are they your employer?
I for one was glad to see both sides come out well represented, but have to say as much as we don’t want to make this a black and white issue, I must point out that the majority of the rainbow alliance suppotrers were white, and this is a far cry from what they have made us to believe in times past, as this being a issue wanted by many gay blacks.
They point being that the majority of gay blacks will be Bermudians with little to no outside influences or connections in way of family members, and were raised in a traditional Bermudian culture that taught them morals and belifs that have never been contradicted by a minority, so even though they may be gay, they are well aware of what was taught to them and willing to respect their parents and foreparents, needless to say for the majority of the white community, the same can not be said.
@ Duance
wondered when someone was going to make it about race- as always. Most of the preserve marriage supporters were black- why have you skipped over that part?
Majority of the black minority group are scared to stand up for their rights for fear of backlash. I was not afraid to stand up.
Lots of straight people supporting equality out there.
In other words Duane, they are too intimidated to show their faces. What a sad state of affairs and nothing you should be so smug and proud of. You should be ashamed instead.
Religion yet again poisons everything.
No, because in our culture it has ALWAYS been considered Taboo and Immoral, just like an elite white family member marrying a Black person.
Who are these Elite you speak of? Got any names?
WOW!
Bigoted much?
Respect for parents or fear of ostracizim? Which do you think would be the more powerful reason for someone to hide their natural sexual orientation.
I personally would not bring race in to it, as I believe there are many blacks that are gay that are afraid to come out and show their faces. Some still live behind closed doors or under false pretenses of being straight.
Orr like the good little Christian boys and girls they are told to be. They marry make babies (creating that ever do happy Christian family like they were drilled to do. But in the shadows some not do respectfully in the shadows run around playing with the opposit team. Bermuda is small everyone n knows and talks family’s live in pain with the betrayal and confusion. Then they all go to church on Sunday smiling like the good doctrine following soldiers they have been told they need to be.
There are many of these scenarios that Do exist in our little God fearing island if you don’t believe it your in denial
This is a perfect example where I stated “it’s a European thing”.
You prove again and again that you are a complete idiot
Ok nut Case.
LMFAO
amazing because love wins has decided to join the activities of Couse it is going to confuse the numbers as you don’t know who is for who. really you couldn’t have your own gathering on another day.
Ya we know who is for who, like you know how is for U.B.P.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ya the PLP/UBP lmfao! Get that juice out ya eye!
no fights yet?
What??? god don’t want any competition???
“Moms &dads optional”… Given the number of children in Bermuda growing up I n single parent homes I find the use of this slogan ironic… Same sex marriage can’t make things worse…
Exactly, quite the opposite in fact as same sex parents have to think a lot harder about whether to have a family, as the process of doing so is a lot more difficult than just a drunken fumble one night…
Yes, in the history of successful campaigning this particular slogan isn’t really in the “I have a Dream” league.
Lol, exactly. If anything it will improve things.
Anyone can gather in a public place without a permit. When you need a permit is if you decide to be disruptive, e.g blocking traffic.
No you cant, that’s still on the books from post slavery days, they just don’t enforce it.
Now you are talking about unequal human rights , well here is another example today of unequal rights, SSM….
Ironically God says slavery is Ok with him in the bible.
Thankfully people didn’t take it as fact in the modern world or I would be a slave.
Actually, Brannon posted last night that he had gotten approval from the police to stage their demonstration of love versus fear
It takes a MAN and a WOMAN to conceive a child. So basically, what um saying is that “Preserve Marriage” people gave birth to “Love Wins” ones…why are they hating their own?
Not hating. We love the people but don’t love the behavior. Almost every family can say that one person that they are related too is gay so for people to continue to say it is hate or fear really doesn’t make any sense.
but it makes sense to deny that family member equal rights …. oh ok.
Marriage is not a right, it it were a right it wouldn’t require a license with specific requirements, privileges and benefits.
You’re really stooping to new lows with this.
You KNOW that marriage gives rights to people. For you to pretend that you don’t know this is disingenuous and dishonest.
Come on.
So you don’t like someones behavior !!! Now we are getting closer to the truth.
So your personal dislike of someones behavior justifies you having superior rights to them !!!!
I personally don’t like your behavior on here, so I guess I can have superior rights to you…..Well that is how it works in your head !!!!!!
So, I am allowed to keep my marriage and yours now must be dissolved….there you go, playing by your rules.
A person is their behaviour, so if you don’t love their behaviour, you don’t love them. Denying them equal rights and protection under the law isn’t loving them. Preserve Marriage, in the sense of self righteous moral-turpitude declaring they are protecting this country, are in fact spitting on the freedoms of this country. They say they aren’t out to change the law, but demand the government to put marriage as being solely between a man and a women in superiority to the primacy of the Human Rights Act… an act that was put in place to enshrine into law the inability for any law to every be able to be enacted that would remove, prevent or discriminate the rights of any person or people in this country. Yet they demand that this be done, and still lay claim to being the moral high ground… never mind that their entire argument is predicated on religious grounds, which is in itself a violation of the Human Rights Act. If government is going to start putting superiority clauses onto laws to circumnavigate the Human Rights Act, then why even have one, why have a law that prevents these abuses?
I wonder how many that stood there today to demand this violation of the Human Right Act, once rejoiced when the Human Rights Act was first enabled, cause it would mean that there could never be laws again that would impede their rights and liberties…?? I genuinely feel sad for them, we’ve come so far on this endless journey to better ourselves, and they have fallen, by choice, back to where we began.
That’s ridiculous, one behavior is not all if who you are.
“We love the people but don’t love the behavior” is exactly what Preserve Marriage is saying.
What exactly is “the behaviour” and how is allowing a gay couple to marry of any of your business? If you do not like to see two gay people in love and married. You can look away. Stopping them from having the right to marry is against human rights.
If you love the people, let them make their own choice.
I don’t understand how their rights have any effect on the rights of anyone else. Let them get married and do them and you do you! Simple.
So how are they supposed to pro-create.
Who cares? There’s 5 billion people out there procreating already.
They don’t have to. Neither do male/female partners.
What does procreation have to do with marriage?
U dont have to answer, i know what you will say and no, procreation is not a stipulation for marriage. Get a new argument cause yours is whack. Please try again. Thank you
And vice versa…
You do not have to marry to procreate whether you are straight or gay. Full stop.
Blacks dont even have equal rights yet!! nowhere in the world. But you want to jump the queue. You can sleep and love who you want but we blacks are already in a battle.We need to finish are fight first sorry.
Why can both fights happen at the same time?
Also our*, not are.
If both fights can be fought at the same time why is it 400 years later people of African descent are still being discriminated to this day and seen as less then. And are suffering economically no matter how hard they try. We are living under a system that was implemented by former slave owners and their present day descendants which was implemented for their benefit and our detriment. For example the war on drugs which was really a war on males of African descent. Possession of drugs for personal use should be a health issue not a criminal matter. Those who are descendants of former slave owners could not corner the market therefore they made it illegal. Right now in the USA some states have legalized marijuana and the majority of those who own a marijuana dispensary are Caucasian. At the same males of African descent are still receiving life sentences for drugs for their own personal use. But yet those on Wall Street who committed financial fraud which is a “white” colour crime and caused the world economy to crash, no one has been prosecuted to this day. Like Malcolm X stated: Slavery ended on paper but not in practice. Majority of those who are for same sex marriage are of European descent and this is known worldwide. One only needs to look at those who are at the forefront whether it is here or abroad. And now these individuals of European descent are using the plight of our ancestors to justify their immorality. It is not the same no matter how they try to dress it up. They are hiding behind the words equal justice, human rights, and who they love. This is deception they are using these words to make their immoral lifestyle acceptable. Love is of God and God has stated that this is an abomination therefore it can not be love it is lust. There is also a movement taking place that children should be genderless meaning not calling a girl, a female and a boy, a male anymore. This movement does not want a male to be considered a male nor a female to be considered a female anymore. This is all a part of this sexual depravity that is prevalent today. This is of the same spirit which is an ungodly spirit. But this has been prophesied, that mankind will have a debased mind in the last days. There will be a GREAT DECEPTION in the last days. And we are seeing it take place in front of our eyes. Prophecy must be fulfilled ,this is why they say there is no God, because they are trying to take God’s place here on earth.
Truth- PREACH!! Enlighten the masses!!
If you want us to be guided by what the bible says, then there should be slavery. There’s plenty of examples of condoning of slavery in both the old and new testaments. Slavery should be perfectly ok, if we’re guided by the bible.
Oh wait a minute. I nearly forgot. You selectively overlook the inconvenient bits of the bible don’t you. Of course.
You sound like one of those Southern Dixie types
We harm our own cause for equal rights when we ask other people to wait for theirs. Black people are in the LGBT community too and are part of the wider community. Our struggle is not a reason to delay progress in this struggle. It should bring us to have more understanding.
Yes, it’s all about YOU, RT. Only YOU matter. Non-one else could possibly be discriminated against quite as YOU have been discriminated against. And if they dare to suggest they have they must stand behind YOU because it is YOU who must be served first. Forget any sense of belonging to the human race in all of it great complexity. No, no: only YOU matter; only YOU count. Sadly, this is typical of the me-me-me generation who show a complete lack of empathy with anyone who falls outside of their narrow field of vision. It a dangerous and ignorant attitude and one that typifies the problems of this society.
Except that equality fight isn’t a legislative policy one anymore, it is a social evolution one. And with your limited social view, you aren’t doing the struggle any favours.
What does race have to do with who you love? Stop mixing issues and let everyone be equal and love and marry who they please. If you truely support equality (black, white, gay, straight) you would not be making this argument!
Straight Pride ?
It about supporting equal rights….
that includes straight or gay.
“Redefining Marriage will make Mom & Dads optional”… it already is optional. Heterosexual already saw to that.
I’m a straight girl but I have many good friends who are gay or lesbian. I support gay marriage 100%. But I’m REALLY bothered by the fact that so many straight people (even tolerant ones) seem to have such a problem with the gays having the same set of civil rights that we straight people have. So, I have a few questions to ask the community:
–If you have a problem with same sex marriages why?
–What gives with the argument that same sex marriage will mess up the family structure? How?
–Can someone point out a place in the Bible that says same sex relationships are bad?
–Be honest, is your problem really just that gays and lesbians scare you? If so, why?
–I understand not supporting same sex marriage but if it’s not right for you why can’t you just remain heterosexual while allowing gays and lesbians to marry? No one is saying you have to do.
PLEASE–no mean or ignorant remarks. Just looking for
Because its not natural, Damn even the animals got it right and we are SUPPOSED to be smarter then them.
Damn European habits.
As per usual, you are spreading lies.
This has been proven wrong a hundred times. Why do you keep posting lies?
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/european-court-gay-marriage-is-not-a-human-right
Please read the link above. The European Court on Human Rights has already ruled that SSM is not a Human Rights Issue. The ruling above from July 2015 upholds the position taken by the European Court of Human Rights in 2010 in which The European Court of Human Rights, when discussing the role of the judiciary when considering SSM in Europe stated:
“…as matters stand, the question whether
or not to allow same-sex marriage is left
to regulation by the national law of the
Contracting State. In that connection, the Court
observes that marriage has deep-rooted social
and cultural connotations which may differ
largely from one society to another. The Court
reiterates that it must not rush to substitute its
own judgment in place of that of the national
authorities, who are best placed to assess and
respond to the needs of society…” *
* ECtHR, Schalk and Kopf v. Austria, Application no 30141/04, judgment of 24 June 2010.
SSM is not a human rights issue. The problem is that the laws need to be updated to provide benefits with respect to insurance, rights of next of kin , inheritance tax benefits etc. to persons who are in established relationships- irrespective of marriage or whether the relationship is heterosexual or homosexual.
No one should be forced to adopt a religious practice to have a relationship recognized legally – nor should any religion be forced to accept a redefinition of marriage and their religious beliefs just because some people want to get “married” and don’t believe what the various religious scriptures say about marriage. If one does not accept the religious definition of marriage why is it so important to want to have a union in accordance to a ritual that one does not believe in? Why not simply live together and have the legal benefits of that union?
I have read through most of the blogs today, many of them contain very little helpful information. Your blog has honest questions, as such, they deserve honest answers. Instead of trying to answer your questions here, I would suggest that you take some time and read through the information on the Preserve Marriage website. You will also find helpful downloads as well as video content. It is quite possible the information will not answer all your questions or objections, but at least you will be better informed if you read it for yourself. We are all better off because of your honesty. Congratulations to you. Here is the web address: http://www.preservemarriage.bm/
Read ROMANS 1:18-32 NIV
Any arguments that don’t involve your personal choice of religion?
Or do you think that everyone should have to follow your religion?
Yo Mike, chill out! She asked a question of where in the Bible, hence the answer…..ROMANS 1:18-32.
The one you posted below… where the guys wanted to have sex with the guest, but raped the concubine… a woman… and then the guy chopped up her body?
That’s… about rape! Not same sex relationships.
How…
Is THAT what you think of gay people?
Read Harry Potter chapter 4. It is just as relevant and it is also a work of fiction.
No one should stop a man wanting to have sex with other man or a woman lusting to have sex with another woman, if that what their hearts desire. But I can’t stand it when they want to change everyone around them to believe in their lies or try change the law to suit their life style, it’s just wrong.
Marriage is word to describe a union between Man and Woman Ordained by God. If gay or lesbian marry that should not be called marriage – Find another word, sorry that one is taken and Ordained by the Most High God, our Creator, yours and mine.
First off, they’re not trying to change everyone around them… they’re just trying to have some equal access to rights they’re currently denied. No one else will be affected by this law, at all.
And your argument here is a religious one and, as such isn’t really a reason to deny these people equal access to rights.
Unless you think everyone should believe in your religion…
Is that the case?
It’s not being religious, to call God our creator, yours and mine, it’s the truth. Shouldn’t you call your Father Dad or your Son calling you Dad. Same here calling God my God is not religious, it’s a relationship.
Changing the law, that’s been in place for more than 400 years is changing everyone who believes in that law.
Wait… What?
Calling God “the creator” ISN’T religious?
How? I don’t understand how this makes sense to you.
And are, you, in fact, saying that everyone should have to follow your God?
Oh, and how will changing this law “change everyone who believes in that law”?
Calling God “the creator” ISN’T religious? Yes it is not religious, it is a True fact, that he is Our Creator. I can have a religion and not believe in God.
I’m not saying you should follow God, the Lord, Creator of all, you are not forced to and you should’nt be forced to follow Him or his commands, BUT your unbelief in Him doesn’t change the fact he is God and created me, you, the whole universe and everything in it, He is still God.
Changing the definition of marriage is changing the Law, that has been in place for thousand of years. And the definition of marriage God’s, when He created the first 2 human beings Adam and Eve, he said be fruitful and multiply.
You don’t see it, do you?
You do realize that isn’t even remotely what this is about right? If they wanted to have sex there isn’t a damn thing you or anyone else could do about it. What you are doing is denying them the same rights that opposite sex couples get by being married solely based on your belief in your god/sky pilot/hide and seek champion. Just as it is illegal to discriminate against a person’s chosen religious beliefs it is now illegal to discriminate a person/s based on their sexual orientation.
True story: A person I was very close to, a respected member of our island, devoted Christian, deacon in the church and lived his every breath in the name of “christ” was at an elderly rest home one day spreading the “gospel” and playing hymns on his instrument. He got on his bike, rode 100 meters down the road and was hit by a bus, broke his leg, severed his femoral artery and he bled out in the street in 90 seconds. god is an ******
Than it is obvious your learned nothing from that Deacon.
Romans 1:26-28
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
This one breaks my heart, I pray that we never go back to this stage…
Judges 19:22-29New International Version (NIV)
22 While they were enjoying themselves, some of the wicked men of the city surrounded the house. Pounding on the door, they shouted to the old man who owned the house, “Bring out the man who came to your house so we can have sex with him.”
23 The owner of the house went outside and said to them, “No, my friends, don’t be so vile. Since this man is my guest, don’t do this outrageous thing. 24 Look, here is my virgin daughter, and his concubine. I will bring them out to you now, and you can use them and do to them whatever you wish. But as for this man, don’t do such an outrageous thing.”
25 But the men would not listen to him. So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go. 26 At daybreak the woman went back to the house where her master was staying, fell down at the door and lay there until daylight.
27 When her master got up in the morning and opened the door of the house and stepped out to continue on his way, there lay his concubine, fallen in the doorway of the house, with her hands on the threshold. 28 He said to her, “Get up; let’s go.” But there was no answer. Then the man put her on his donkey and set out for home.
29 When he reached home, he took a knife and cut up his concubine, limb by limb, into twelve parts and sent them into all the areas of Israel.
Funny how the church concentrates so much on how wrong gay sex is, but seem to think it’s o.k. for two women-one of which was a virgin-to be raped senseless instead. I don’t get it…
You don’t get it do you.
These are both from the Holy Book of your personal choice of religion.
Are you saying that everyone should have to follow the rules of your religion?
Go look these stories in History books, besides the Holy book, they are all written in those books.
Unfortunately to you but the Holy book of my personal choice, is the foundation of human kind, you and me, take it or leave it.
But I would suggest though that you look in other books of history, other than my holy book, you will find the recordings of same things happened. Be it Chinese, Egyptian,Roman history. Amazing right!
So, are you saying that we SHOULD all have to follow the rules of your Holy Book?
So we should all follow, when you feel like changing the law to suit your life style.
Not an answer to my question.
I think the problem here is that you don’t get what Freedom Of Religion is.
It means that you can believe whatever you want and so can everyone else.
It means that you can believe that your religion is the right one and is absolute truth, but so can everyone else.
But here’s the thing… And it applies to everyone…
Your religion is just that. Yours. You should have absolutely no expectations that anyone else should have to follow your religion or believe how you do.
I think that you don’t quite get that and think that, because your religion is the truth for you, everyone should believe the same thing.
That’s not how it works.
Changing the law, in this case, to allow a disenfranchised minority access to rights and privileges that they have previously been denied, an injustice that has lasted for thousands of years, will affect your marriage and your life in no negative way at all. Thus, why does your religion take precedence over other people’s happiness?
Or will it? Will allowing same sex couples to get married affect your life in some way? Would you care to explain how?
I don’t know why God and me believing in God (the Lord) bothers you so much. I will not argue with you about my God, but my conscience is clear, and it can discern right and wrong. I pray for your soul, that the same God (the one true God) will find you, so is His Grace and Mercy, this is all I wish for you my friend. Peace and Love be unto you.
Your God and you believing in your God don’t bother me at all! I thought I was pretty clear on that.
I support your right to believe in your God. I truly do.
But you seem to be completely unwilling to read my posts and what I’m actually saying. I’m not arguing with you about your God. At all. Not even a little.
What I’m saying is that everyone has the right to believe what they want, or to not believe, and that your right to believe doesn’t trump someone else’s when it comes to their own life.
Why are you refusing to engage, like, at all?
I don’t understand why you’re being like this.
If I talk about my God you are tripping then you are twisting my words. I get it you don’t believe in God, BUT I do. It doesn’t mean I’m forcing you to believe in Him. It means we will never agree on this issue, my perspective on this issue is based on God, His words and NATURE. As much you don’t want anyone to force God on you, with the same respect why do want to force a nation to change the definition of Marriage.
When did I twist your words?
Oh, and changing the law wouldn’t force anything on anyone…
Unless you thing forcing people to stop discriminating against Bermudians for no reason is a bad thing…
Aimless rambling
Good summary of your usual posts…
Find it funny how when gay marriage is brought up christian people who drink, smoke have pre marital sex are suddenly concerned with what the bible allows. Isnt going to bother me in anyway let them love each other.
You are right – Christians SHOULD be concerned about every aspect of what the Bible says on how they should live and not just be concerned about same-sex marriage. Christians are not perfect people, however, and continually “mess up”.
But when you have a situation where the law could change to redefine the term “marriage”, then even those who are NOT Christians feel compelled to stand up and say something. Changing the definition of marriage to something other than that between a man and a woman opens the door to all other types of unions wanting to be called marriage as well. It WILL affect not only us but our children and grandchildren.
Lies
Yes it will affect our grandchildren. If they are gay they will grow in a world where they won’t have to hide, confused, lost. They won’t have to pretend to be something they are not, they won’t have to live in fear of telling their parents and they won’t suffer abuse at the hands of intolerance.
They will have the same rights as your or me. They will pray to God, they already do….asking why are they different and looking for strength from God.
It is time we stopped punishing our brothers and sisters and instead love and support them as equals.
I had a dream and in this dream all were equal.
“All other types of unions…”
Such as?
And why are they bad?
And how will this affect us, our children and grandchildren?
Can you please elaborate on this?
Also, how many of them are divorced and remarried? God does not acknowledgement divorce and remarriage-you are married to your original spouse until death, and only the death of a spouse releases you to remarry. Therefore, any Christian who is remarried is an adulterer in the eyes of God!The last time I checked, adultery is a SIN and is actually one of the Ten Commandments. What a bunch of hypocrites.
Luke 16:18
18 “Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery.’
Malachi 2:16
16 “For the man who does not love his wife but divorces her,says the Lord, the God of Israel, covers his garment with violence, says the Lord of hosts. So guard yourselves in your spirit, and do not be faithless.”
1 Corinthians 7:11
11 ‘but if she does, she should remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband), and the husband should not divorce his wife.’
There are several more, but you all get the gist of it.
Hi Annie. I’m guessing you are referring to Christians when you ask how many of them are divorced and remarried. I wouldn’t be able to answer that question but I’m sure there were some there that are in that situation.
It’s good that you are going to the Bible to support your point. You have chosen those verses on divorce but unfortunately you did not see Matthew 5:32 and Matthew 19:9 where Jesus does actually give allowance for divorce if adultery has occurred and broken the marriage bond. (Sad that it has to happen in any case.)
Please remember that Christians are not perfect people. They have mess ups in their lives just like anyone else. I don’t understand why you would call them hypocrites because they are taking a stand for preserving the definition of marriage. Would you expect Christians to say, “Oh, I can’t have an opinion on this because I have faults in my life so I’d better not say how I feel.”?
I would hope that the majority of Christians there were not being hypocritical. We are just trying to uphold the definition of marriage in the way we believe God would have it.
No disrespect but they ARE hypocrites because they are telling gay people not to do certain things when they are doing way worst. They need to examine themselves and get themselves in order before they try and sort anyone else out.
“You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.”
Matthew 7:5
We ALL need to examine ourselves.
I’m not quite sure how you know that people are doing “way worst” – but I guess you know a lot more than the average person.
We are not “telling gay people” to do anything. We were asking the GOVERNMENT to maintain the marriage law.
so all u so called str8 ppl are so offended by alternative lifestyles that you can’t accept 2 men or women marrying? Where have you been all these years? Alternative Lifestyles have been around for decades in the form of, single parent families, Irresponsible Parents, Adultery, and Divorce. So why are you offended?
It’s not that anyone is necessarily “offended”. We just do not want to see the DEFINITION of marriage change to anything other than that between a man and a woman. We recognize that there are alternate lifestyles but it’s not necessary to call them “marriages”.
Why not?
…because we believe that it would open the door to a host of other unions being called “marriage” as well. This would, in essence, be the “thin edge of the wedge”.
HI! Thanks for answering!
Can I ask for some elaboration? What other types of unions are we talking about?
And are they between consenting adults?
I’m genuinely curious about this.
Well, there are cases in the US, and perhaps other jurisdictions as well, where multiple partners (“thruples” and polygamists), have applied for rights to marry based on the same arguments that advocates for same-sex marriage made.
And? Is this bad? Why?
Why shouldn’t they be allowed to get married?
Well that’s where serious societal changes would occur. I, for one, would not be comfortable with accepting so many different types of unions as “marriage”. It would get confusing for adults so you can imagine how that might affect a child. Do we really want these drastic changes in our island?
I’m sorry, but I’m not seeing as to how your confusion is a reason to deny rights to people.
I mean, how, exactly would if affect a child?
It’s not hard to explain, really.
What is marriage?
“Well, for us, it’s a Holy Union of two people, a man and a woman, so that they can build a family.
Sometimes it’s JUST a man and a woman and they don’t have kids. That’s a family, too.
For other people it’s a man and a man and sometimes a woman and a woman and that is a family as well.
Our Bible doesn’t agree with this, but not everyone believes the same thing as we do. Like, you know our friends that are Muslim? They aren’t allowed to eat pork or other things that are forbidden by their religion. But they don’t force other people to not eat pork.
In other cases, it’s more than two people. That’s a family as well.
See, a marriage can be a lot of things, but most importantly it’s for people that love each other and want to be a family.”
See? That’s not hard.
Also, are there a lot of people actually petitioning for polygamy?
Like, is there a movement? Are there actually people out there in Bermuda seriously asking for this?
I think that would actually be a really good response to a child. Well- thought out. As a Christian, however, I would make a few changes so I’m going to copy and paste your response and make a few changes, if I may. Here goes:
“Well, for us, it’s a Holy Union of two people, a man and a woman, so that they can build a family.
Sometimes it’s JUST a man and a woman and they don’t have kids. That’s a family, too.
But some countries have changed their laws and now they are calling all types of unions “marriage” such as a man and a man and sometimes a woman and a woman and that is a family as well but not a marriage.
Our Bible doesn’t agree with this, but not everyone believes the same thing as we do. Like, you know our friends that are Muslim? They aren’t allowed to eat pork or other things that are forbidden by their religion. But they don’t force other people to not eat pork.
In other cases, it’s more than two people. That’s a family as well, but not a marriage.
Marriage can be a lot of things to some people because they think it’s only about people that love each other and want to be a family but since we are Christians and follow the Bible, we know what God’s word teaches.
But just like I said about the Muslims, we don’t expect everyone to think like us. Like this man named Mike. He doesn’t agree with us. He probably thinks we’re haters and bigots because we want to see the definition of marriage remain as that between a man and a woman. He thinks we’re trying to deny people rights and force our beliefs on them – but we’re not. We want everyone to have equal rights and I hope the government makes changes in its legislation so everyone is afforded those rights. We really don’t have to change the definition of marriage for that to happen. Now let’s pray for Mike.”
I don’t know if there are people petitioning for polygamy – probably not. But if you think back to ten years ago, there was nobody petitioning for same-sex marriage either.
” Like this man named Mike. He doesn’t agree with us. He probably thinks we’re haters and bigots because we want to see the definition of marriage remain as that between a man and a woman. He thinks we’re trying to deny people rights and force our beliefs on them – but we’re not. We want everyone to have equal rights and I hope the government makes changes in its legislation so everyone is afforded those rights. We really don’t have to change the definition of marriage for that to happen.”
So…
Just to get it straight…
You DO think that gay people should be given equal rights.
You just don’t want them to be allowed to call it a marriage?
Because your religion says that it’s not a marriage.
{“Marriage can be a lot of things to some people because they think it’s only about people that love each other and want to be a family but since we are Christians and follow the Bible, we know what God’s word teaches”)
But then you say “He thinks we’re trying to deny people rights and force our beliefs on them – but we’re not.”
How does that compute? If you want to deny people the right to call their relationship a marriage, based on “but since we are Christians and follow the Bible, we know what God’s word teaches”, but AREN’T forcing your beliefs on them?
Do you see why I’m having a hard time understanding your position? It’s contradictory.
Types of Union – Next people would want to marry their cats and dogs
Yes. Because cats and dogs can give consent and sign legal documents.
Come on. This isn’t even remotely the same thing.
This CANNOT happen. Ever.
This CANNOT happen. Ever…. Really???
They said that in the 1900 with regard to gay.
Who would stop you, it’s a human right to marry a cat or dog isn’t?…
NO! It’s not!
See, animals cannot give consent. That’s one part of it.
The other? THEY’RE ANIMALS!
They can’t sign legal documents!
How are you missing this?
Being gay is not like wanting to sleep with animals.
It’s not the same thing!
Of course it isn’t a human right to marry a cat or a dog!
Want to know the first clue?
They’re called HUMAN rights!
Seriously.
How is this an ok thing to suggest?
If people can stand today and change the definition of marriage to include man and man, what stops them from standing up in 100 years from now to try and change the definition of human beings to include cats, dogs, donkeys.
Because, and I’m not sure you’re reading this when I write it,
Animals cannot sign legal documents. They can’t give consent. They can’t enter into legal contracts with people.
They aren’t subject to human rights because they aren’t human.
Men are men. Women are women.
Both are already included in the definition of marriage.
The only thing folks are looking to change is the restriction, not the definition.
Look, I know you don’t want this to happen.
I get that.
But to post ridiculous things like this only makes you look like you have no argument at all.
And if this DOES actually make sense to you, I beg you to PLEASE do some soul searching about how you look and treat your fellow man.
If you liken gay people to people who want to have sex with animals, you need some serious, serious education.
Oh grow up and stop being so silly.
Na, my dog is an a-hole. I only keep him around because the jehovas witness fear him more than jehova himself.
You realize that there has been a whole host of other unions that would be called marriages throughout history… you are effectively quibbling over the use of a word that you hold no sole ownership to. The word marriage, the definition of marriage does not below to you or anyone and what is being fought for here isn’t the ownership of the word, but the recognition of the rights that comes with the use of that word under law.
You are right – no one “owns” the definition of the word, “marriage” but at the moment, the law in Bermuda defines marriage as that between a man and a woman. That is what we are seeking to uphold.
So if that is what Preserve Marriage is looking to uphold, would you “allow” same sex marriages to be called something else? All of this is over a word?!
Well sort of – but not really. It is because same-sex couples want their unions to be called marriage.
Preserve Marriage sees marriage as a man and a woman coming together as husband and wife to be mother and father to any children the union may produce. They are also sexually complementary spouses who have pledged to be faithful to each other.
It’s more about the definition than the word itself.
So, my marriage, to my wife, which is childless, isn’t a marriage?
See, I keep pointing this out, and people keep ignoring it.
The ability to procreate is not a requirement for marriage, and, because of that, it is not a reason to deny same sex couples the ability to marry, or even the right to use the word marriage, legally.
Nowhere in the definition of marriage does it say that a married couple HAS to be a mother and father.
What you are doing is redefining marriage.
You are right – a marriage does not HAVE to produce children in order for it to be called a marriage but a childless marriage displays the components, so to speak, that are necessary to produce a child.
Going back to your question about denying people rights (as I don’t have the option to reply in the other chat box), I will try to explain it a different way with a father and two children:
Child A: Dad, what’s that you’re making?
Father: This is an Ubick. I’ve just invented it and had it patented.
Child B: What does it do?
Father: Well, I’ll show you. See? It’s resting in the palm of my hand. It just looks like a little box but let me show you what it does. If you look inside, you’ll see a little red cord running through the centre of it. And if you press this button on the top, it plays a song and a little blue light comes on.
Children A & B: Wow Dad, that’s really cool!
TIME PASSES. THE CHILDREN HAVE ENJOYED PLAYING WITH THE UBICK BUT THEN CHILD A DECIDES TO MAKE ONE.
Child A: Guess what Dad! I made a Ubick.
Father: Oh that’s great, son! Let’s see it.
Child A: Well, it’s not the exact shape as yours and it doesn’t have the red cord running through the centre. Also, when you press the button on the top, instead of the music and blue light, it makes a popping sound and a yellow light flashes, see?
Child B: Dad, is that really a Ubick? I told him that it’s not like yours so he should call his something else because it doesn’t look like a Ubick and it doesn’t do the same things a Ubick does.
Father: Well Child B, you are correct. The Ubick has been patented and its unique features are actually what make it a Ubick. Child A, what you have made is quite creative but I’m sorry, you can’t really call it a Ubick because it doesn’t do the same things a Ubick does.
Child A: Well I want to call this by the SAME NAME as yours! Even though yours has been patented, I want everybody to recognize mine as a Ubick too! I don’t care that it doesn’t do the same things as the one you made. Mine is a Ubick, too.
Father: I cannot give you my blessing on this, Child A. What you have created is entirely different.
THE CHILDREN GROW UP. CHILD B HAS LEARNED TO MAKE UBICKS FOLLOWING THE FATHER’S TEMPLATE. SOMETIMES THE UBICKS FALL APART OR BREAK BECAUSE PEOPLE DON’T TAKE CARE OF THEM AS THEY SHOULD BUT EACH ONE HAS BEEN MADE FROM THE TEMPLATE WHICH THE FATHER INVENTED.
Child B: Dad, these Ubicks are quite popular now. People all over the world are enjoying them.
Father: Yes, that’s good to see. Unfortunately, your brother has influenced a lot of people and now they are all trying to call his invention a Ubick. In fact, I’ve heard that they are even trying to get governments to say that my invention should include all kinds of variations: no red cords through the centre, no blue lights, no music. It’s just so disappointing because I love my sons and I want you both to enjoy the benefits of my invention but as much as your brother wants to call his invention a Ubick, it will never be a Ubick.
I hope this makes my position a little more clear, Mike, but at the end of the day, it would be difficult for us to see things in the same light because of my relationship (not religion), with the Lord Jesus Christ. So I guess because of that, we’re going to have to agree to disagree.
Except in the legal framework which is already in law in this country.
Huh? Your relationship with Jesus Christ IS your religion?
Why are you denying that you have a religion?
And, as for your story?
First off, it has nothing to do with denying rights. It’s about the religious belief that God created marriage.
And, as always, I have to ask… again:
Do you think that your religion and what you believe should have any effect on anyone else’s life or relationship?
Should we all have to follow the rules of your relationship?
Should your personal relationship with Jesus Christ take precedence over what other people believe?
@ Keep Praying, that was a waste of time on your part to use up so much space for such a pointless story that has no real bearing in reality. All you are asserting to is that it is your right to enforce your definition of marriage on those that do not share your theology. In reality, no one institution has sole ownership to the term marriage. It is used by a multitude of unions across a multitude cultures all around the world, all throughout history. So for you to say that the law has to embody your belief, is not only a violation of the Human Rights Act as relate to discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, but also on the grounds of discrimination of religion, you have the right to define marriage in your religion, but you do not have the right to enforce that beyond the doors of your church or the walls of your heart.
“The Truth”,
Was your post in response to “Nowhere in the definition of marriage does it say that a married couple HAS to be a mother and father.”
Because, if it was, you’re be wrong.
By forcing your religious definition on a legal one… which is illegal under the Human Rights Act and violates the principles of equality and democracy. Your not definition is not welcomed by all and you do not have the right to enforce it on those that are not of your religion.
When the laws are changes (and they will be because the courts have recognized the inequality), what are you going to do?
That is why the BERMUDIAN PEOPLE need to make the decision about what goes on in our country, not just the courts.
No. Human rights are not up for a vote. If we followed your logic the American South would probably still be segregated.
PLEASE don’t equate this with ending segregation in the American South. Have you even noticed what has gone on in the South since segregation ended?
In any case, I do not want to get into that discussion. The Bermudian people should decide what is best for their country and their children.
Why not? Rights are being denied to people in both cases and in both cases people used the Bible to justify why things should stay the same.
Oh no, not that dead racial horse again. You guys need a new play book.
This one was sad. You never actually prove it wrong, just complain that it keeps coming up.
Why don’t you do that?
No, it’s up to the courts to interpret the law. That’s what they’re there for.
And, if the courts find that 15c of the Matrimonial Clauses Act is discriminatory based on the Human Rights Act, then it MUST be removed.
That’s the way this works.
Swing voter…this is an irrational statement to assume that sexual preference has anything to do with irresponsible parenting, or being a sing parent.
I SUPPORT PRESERVE MARRIAGE AND I AM STRAIGHT AS AN ARROW… CANT SEE MSELF WITH ANOTHER ONE OF THE SAME SEX AS ME ,,, YUCKKK.
No one is asking you to.
No one is asking you to have a same sex relationship, the granting of same sex marriages won’t effect you one bit.
The answer is simple. If you don’t like the idea of same-sex marriages, don’t have one.
So don’t marry one! This decision would have no bearing on your relationship. By allowing them to marry, it doesn’t stop you from marrying – it’s not a lottery. You don’t have only a certain limit of licenses a year and they are taking it away from you. smh
You do know that they’re not asking YOU to become gay right?
That’s fine. No one is trying to make you get together with anyone of the same sex. Your personal sexual orientation is inconsequential in this matter.
What matters is that people exist who are being discriminated against daily, and this Preserve Marriage group wants to further entrench this discrimination into the law.
Love Wins has you covered in their argument for equality. They aren’t stopping you getting married or having equal rights.
Well don’t then sensitive guy
The idea is to make ssm permissible, not compulsory.
I SUPPORT SAME SEX MARRIAGE AND I AM STRAIGHT AS AN ARROW… CAN’T SEE MSELF WITH ANOTHER ONE OF THE SAME SEX… YUCKKK.
However, I am not so narrow minded as to oppose equal rights for my gay brothers & sisters.
You do realise that forced homosexuality is not what Love Wins are championing?
I applaud you SENSITIVE GUY ! You represent a vast segment of Bermudian society !
Not as vast as you do though.
Bermuda really is another world.
Of all of our problems this is what people think needs fixing? Debt out of control, young kids robbing gas stations for gang initiations, kids shooting each other, schools closing, ex-pats leaving. Yet, denying two loving individuals the same rights the rest of us enjoy is a priority?
What a joke.
Don’t you know this is the root of all the problems you listed?
How? Please elaborate on your unfounded and uneducated claim
Calm your t*ts, it’s called sarcasm.
It shouldn’t even register as loudly as it has, it should be a no brainer to change the legislation to provide equality to SS couples. Bizzare that the Preserve marriage group choose this to work against rather than the things you defined Mike.
Society will always have problems. The irony here is that most of problems right now come from the complete breakdown of a supportive family structure, leading to children growing up with little or no understanding of values like tolerance, self worth and self discipline, and the multitude of other values that would better equip them to better their lives and the community, who are then going out and having children multiplying the issue. And this devaluation has nothing to do with same sex relationships, but are a result of hetrosexual ones, meanwhile you have someone from Preserve Marriage holding a sign saying that same sex marriage will make mom’s and dad’s optional… the irony would be hilarious if it wasn’t so baselessly false. The fact is that it has been shown that same sex couples can raise successful children just like hetrosexual couples, so same sex marriage will only increase the number of stable family environments on this island.
I’m sorry that you feel human rights aren’t a priority.
Father’s day, the most confusing day in Bermuda!
That’s why there should be a “Family” day
Cause many don’t know who de baby daddy is, but SSM is whats gonna make moms and dads optional…yah right!!!
Like many have stated before, if you are so interested in preserving marriage then maybe start with the adultery that is rampant where everyone has a side piece,divorce,children out of wedlock (outside their marriage).How about the many who have been calling talk shows claiming they used to be gay before they were saved and don’t agree with SSM..cough… cough (down low). Maybe add these things to your crusade of preserving marriage and give your cause credibility, otherwise you are just exercising your right to religious freedom to stop someone else from getting theirs.
P.S.
Last time I checked the bible thought us such things as love,tolerance, love thy brother and such. No where did I remember reading where it instructed me to enforce its doctrine on anyone else. Because if I’m religious,attend church or lead a congregation,it should be about bettering myself and not imposing what I perceive as right on someone else. If you believe only God can judge not anyone else or if you believe in the faith as strongly as you claim then don’t fear god will sort them out not you.
Many don’t know who de baby daddy is, Many Mommas having babies for child support payments,many kids with different dads,but SSM is whats gonna make moms and dads optional…yah right!!!
Like many have stated before, if you are so interested in preserving marriage then maybe start with the adultery that is rampant where everyone has a side piece,divorce,children out of wedlock (outside their marriage).How about the many who have been calling talk shows claiming they used to be gay before they were saved and don’t agree with SSM..cough… cough (down low). Maybe add these things to your crusade of preserving marriage and give your cause credibility, otherwise you are just exercising your right to religious freedom to stop someone else from getting theirs.
P.S.
Last time I checked the bible thought us such things as love,tolerance, love thy brother and such. No where did I remember reading where it instructed me to enforce its doctrine on anyone else. Because if I’m religious,attend church or lead a congregation,it should be about bettering myself and not imposing what I perceive as right on someone else. If you believe only God can judge not anyone else or if you believe in the faith as strongly as you claim then don’t fear god will sort them out not you.
Preserve Marriage says’We do not hate anyone’……but we will deny humans basic rights. Remember 40 years ago when the same arguments were used to support segregation? 10 years from now all of the outdated views of Preserve Marriage will provoke the same reaction. People should be able love and marry who ever they want. I find it hard understand why the decisions of someone who you don’t know impact your life so much. Come on Bermuda, this isn’t a religion thing, this is a matter of personal choice. There are real issues to tackle to make Bermuda better.
It’s more like 50 years now.
Closer to 60 than 50 !
Proving how even more outdated their argument is
Separation of Church and State…..if religious people don’t agree with Same Sex Marriage , I get that. But one religion should not dictate the laws for all – hence that argument should be put aside. You don’t have to agree with it, but at the end of the day, it’s a human right. For those of us who fought for race equality and gender equality we should surely get this struggle. Let everyone have the right to marry the person they love. Plain and simple.
As for the religion spin, if a person held a ceremony in a church and by a priest (but didn’t have the legal document) that couple is not Married in the eyes of the law…..so please leave God out of this argument. The government determines if you are married, not a church.
This is some bs. Bermuda get your priorities in order. All this same sex crap, so much more to be concerned about i.e. Education and jobs just to name a few. Not knocking anyone for their preference but Bermy is too small for this bs. Do as you please but the world doesn’t need to know your business. I have a 10yr old son and personally I don’t want him to be exposed this typa thing and think that its right. I’m far from being in denial I know what’s going on but no way should this be legal. You wanna legalize something start with the high grade…..That is all!
Way to deny your son thinking for himself! He may grow up and actually agree that everyone should be treated fairly and the same…heaven forbid!
Or be gay himself. Heaven forbid that we would want to have an inclusive society welcoming of him.
I don’t think Bermuda is that simple a society that more than one thing can be addressed at a time.
Our messed up education system, and the need to get Bermudians working again, are definitely clear priorities that need to be tackled. But so can this.
There has been so much attention given recently by “Preserve Marriage” and “Love Wins” and I can appreciate and understand why one group is new to my ears but not the other.
Around the world countries are making changes to afford the same human rights to same sex couples as they apply to heterosexual couples and from a human rights perspective this is just. From a religious perspective (not all religions) it is only against their belief. Since this is happening around the world it is easy to comprehend why I am only just hearing from the “Love Wins” group as it is progress. At the same time however, it begs me to question why I am only hearing of the presence of the “Preserve Marriage” group?
For years now Bermuda has been faced with a surge in gun activity and gang violence and many have attributed this behavior due to the lack of a male figure in upbringing. For years there has been sexually abuse, child molestation, child neglect etc., etc. Where has “Preserve Marriage” been during all of this?
Here they are fighting vehemently against what should already be an individual’s given equal right whom most agree is a minority group instead of focusing their attention on the larger groups which in my view have a much greater negative impact on our society. I’ve yet to hear of a group of gays on bikes with dark visors doing drive by shootings!
Bermuda is not a democratic society filled with individuals who can make decisions with intellect thought but really just a small Island filled with far too many who will do and say whatever is ministered to them. That equates to hundreds of votes from the view of one person if we held a referendum. Just being real!
“Preserve Marriage” needs to focus on what their name implies because what they are doing now is quite the opposite or change your name to something like “Homophobias Bermudias” because that is all you have shown Bermuda so far.
Now gays close your eyes, because the OBA need to show what b@lls they have, we Bermudians want you to show us what b@lls you have, and do what is fundamentally right so when the gay open there eyes again they will see themselves as they should already be… EQUAL! Which is also GOD’S WILL!
I will give you an amen and up it with a hallelujah.
I can not wait for the day I am able to walk my father down the isle to the man who has supported him and loved him for the past 5 years.
If your generation wont legalize it then mine will.
Really, I would have to wonder how many of the church people present at the demonstration have illegiamate children and grandchildren???? Why are you only holding on to a piece of the Bible that seems to suit you, having children with numerous Men out of wedlock is far more of a sin than two people of the same sex wanting a productive life together. Please explain why the church does not frown on unwed mothers????
The sign that reads: Marriage should be decided by the voting public.
What the ….?
No, marriage is between two people who love each other. The voting public should not have a say in marriage at all.
Ironic as hell that the picture shows a politician holding that sign. He’s basically saying “I want to decide about marriage”.
“We do not hate you” then why are you denying me my rights? If that’s not hatred then i don’t know what is. It’s called homophobia for a reason.
Yup. That politician is Michael Weeks. I wonder if he is aware that in May 2012 the NAACP passed a resolution supporting marriage equality. Here’s a little excerpt to consider:
“The NAACP Constitution affirmatively states our objective to ensure the “political, educational, social and economic equality” of all people. Therefore, the NAACP has opposed and will continue to oppose any national, state, local policy or legislative initiative that seeks to codify discrimination or hatred into the law or to remove the Constitutional rights of LGBT citizens. We support marriage equality consistent with equal protection under the law provided under the Fourteenth Amendment of the United States Constitution. Further, we strongly affirm the religious freedoms of all people as protected by the First Amendment.”
That same bible that allowed slavery to be acceptable up to 1865. That same bible that allowed marriage of close cousins. That same bible that designated women as unequal to men in intellect and strength. That same bible that teaches Jewish superiority, gentile inferiority. That same bible that make so many denominations think they are the specially hand picked 144,000 remnant…
Oh Really! SMDH
So happy to be a part of the Love group. So many smiling faces and laughter. Human rights are not up for debate. Religion does not dictate the rights of your fellow man or woman. All the arguments put forward by the opposers are ridiculous. What are you afraid of? As for the bible passage picking….what would Jesus do?
That awkward moment when you spot numerous people protesting against same sex marriage who have done much worse in their younger years…
Bermuda. The religious gulag……..
I would like to ask anyone of those religious fanatics that were out there today if they have a friend or relative who is gay. And what is going to happen to regular marriage between a man and a woman? Is it going to be abolished? I think not. So what is all the fuss about? PRESERVE:
1.TO keep alive or in existence; make lasting. 2.to keep safe from harm or injury; protect or spare. SMH!
The Bible is so full of contradiction and violence it’s laughable. Those sheeple out there with their signs really don’t have a clue. Here’s 1 clue. The Bible and religion was created to control the masses and to make obidient servents out of all who believe the stories written in it. The real Bible witch was edited by a bunch of scolars sactioned by King James would have been totally different. Something those sheeple would not have been able to comprehend.
Gay marraige does not create more gay people just more STABLE gay relationships Now that’s real social stability
50 per cent of heterosexual marriages end in divorce and a large percentage of those remaking are wracked with infidelity
I really have to wonder about something . Those Preserve Marriage demonstrators and their signs , they do realize that same sex marriage would not be mandatory , right ??
I like to see the Church goers do the same for gun violence, the cost of living, the high cost of Insurance the screwed up Education system, etc etc…. Oh no that doesn’t bother them because they are afraid to challenge the Government or anyone in authority.
I take personal exception to people who curse
G-D,Malign G-D,make insulting remarks,about G-D,then do the same thing about Religion and its Adherents.Then agree that G-D, is the Creator of the heavens and the Earth,Sun ,Moon and Stars and the Galaxies between ,but when asked a simple question like ” who is G-D “they say,
{ G-D does not exist,I do’nt believe in G-D.},but attack the Bible ,The Holy Quran,and The religious books of the faithful of other religions.They are called Disbelievers and Hypocrites,Devils and Deceivers.So sorry that St.Brendans changed its name to to Wellness Centre. Brenda could have been doing good business,housing these misguided people.
And you are absolutely within your rights to believe that.
But do you think that everyone should have to believe that?
First, not everyone “agrees that god is the creator of the heavens and the earth moon stars and galaxies in between”. He wasn’t. He had nothing to do with it. He doesn’t exist.
Then in your last sentences you suggest that anyone who doesn’t believe what you believe should be locked up in the Wellness Centre.
This is why religion goes beyond being quaint. It is damgerous. You’re not just anti- equality for gay people. Your mindset is the stoneage mindset of the bible. Your ilk want a totalitarian regime where everyone has to “believe” what you do, or get locked up? It’s the same mindset that condones terrorism, stoning to death, cutting off heads, and burning witches.
You can believe all the evil crap you like, but it would be disastrous if people had to have their lives governed by people like you.
I guess you don’t like me then Sharrief. And just because I don’t believe in your god. Doesn’t bother me at all.
Let’s preserve marriage and get divorced three times. Lets have six kids with mom and dad optional obviously due to custody issues. Let’s not hate anyone and just say we don’t hate you but you’re less than us and deserve as much. Wait…..
Someone tell me so I can understand… Is the act of people of the same sex having sex with each other i.e man having sex with man and woman having sex with woman a natural thing or is it unnatural according to nature? or abnormal …I know it’s a preference, I want to know how it is according to nature, thanks.
Considering it happens throughout nature, I’d say it’s natural.
But that’s irrelevant. MARRIAGE is abnormal, according to nature. Property is unnatural. Clothing is unnatural.
We’re talking about allowing equal access to rights and privileges.
The “are gay people unnatural” conversation was had months and months ago.
Reading all the comments above, church folk simply think they are better than everyone else and think they are somehow entitled. Religion is really just an excuse for manipulating people. Very sad.
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/european-court-gay-marriage-is-not-a-human-right
The ruling from July 2015 upholds the position taken by the European Court of Human Rights in 2010 in which The European Court of Human Rights, when discussing the role of the judiciary when considering SSM in Europe stated:
“…as matters stand, the question whether
or not to allow same-sex marriage is left
to regulation by the national law of the
Contracting State. In that connection, the Court
observes that marriage has deep-rooted social
and cultural connotations which may differ
largely from one society to another. The Court
reiterates that it must not rush to substitute its
own judgment in place of that of the national
authorities, who are best placed to assess and
respond to the needs of society…” *
SSM is not a human rights issue. The problem is that the laws need to be updated to provide benefits with respect to insurance, rights of next of kin , inheritance tax benefits etc.to persons who are in established relationships- irrespective of marriage or whether the relationship is heterosexual or homosexual.
No one should be forced to adopt a religious practice to have a relationship recognized legally – nor should any religion be forced to accept a redefinition of marriage and their religious beliefs just because some people want to get “married” and don’t believe what the various religious scriptures say about marriage. If one does not accept the religious definition of marriage why is it so important to want to have a union in accordance to a ritual that one does not believe in? Why not simply live together and have the legal benefits of that union?
* ECtHR, Schalk and Kopf v. Austria, Application no 30141/04, judgment of 24 June 2010.
Marriage isn’t a religious institution, churches do not own the term marriage. It is a word that describes a multitude of unions across a multitude cultures all around the world, all throughout history. The only form of marriage ordained by God is the ones performed in churches, but those marriages aren’t a legal marriage under law unless the marriage paperwork is done and approved. Marriage is a term owned by the Authority Having Juristiction, in this case government, and currently the laws that cover marriage in Bermuda do violate the primacy of our Human Rights Act, in the form of discrimination by sexual orientation. It is an easy fix to address this and in doing so it does not effect the definition of marriage some churches hold to, because, as I said, they have their own definition and they have the right to hold to their definition; but equally, they do not have the right to enforce that definition of marriage or anyone outside their church, as that too would be a violation of the Human Rights Act, in the form of violating the freedom of religion of others.
“nor should any religion be forced to accept a redefinition of marriage and their religious beliefs just because some people want to get “married” and don’t believe what the various religious scriptures say about marriage. If one does not accept the religious definition of marriage why is it so important to want to have a union in accordance to a ritual that one does not believe in?”
Here’s the thing.
No one is forcing the religions to accept it.
Marriage equality won’t change religions’ definition of marriage. They can continue to define it however they want for their followers, following their religious scriptures ’til the cows come home.
I don’t accept the religious definition of marriage and I am married, legally, so the “Marriage is a religious thing” argument is false.
People’s religions should apply to their lives, not anyone else’s.
Thank you. Your information is well researched. It looks like SSM is not a human right.
Actually, it is a human right. The 2010 case that Eugenie references was superseded by Oriali vs Italy, 2015, in which the European Court found that the inability of single sex couples to marry is a breach of their human rights.
So you’re wrong about that.
And it also follows any government which is guided by international human rights standards would have to take note of that.
Awesome
What disturbs me most is that 95% of these comments are discussing: rainbows, protest permits, the wedding dress couple and race.
This is not a time to exude hate and argue about issues that are irrelevant to human rights.
Focus, people.
We are Bob and Bonny Giovanni from the United States, we came to Bermuda to celebrate our 25th anniversary, with original dress and tux and arrangements pre made with the Rev. Malcolm Eve at the Allan Temple AME to renew our vows. We didn’t even know Rev. Eve’s status until we arrived; he is our neighbor’s cousin in St. Louis, Mo, the late Bishop Vinton Anderson. We knew NOTHING of International marriage week until the day after we arrived. We attended the rally, dressed in wedding attire, as it fell on our anniversary date. It was important to us, and made it a point to speak to as many people as possible. We are NOT there to promote or exclude either side. We stand firm for acceptance. We believe and promote MARRIAGE. Everyone has the right to love and be loved. We do not support living together without a formal commitment.