Parliamentarians Discuss $9M Grand Atlantic Fee

March 18, 2015

[Updated] Public Works Minister Craig Cannonier told the House of Assembly the developer will be paying $9 million over four years for the Grand Atlantic Development.

“The Grand Atlantic loan balance currently stands at $36.7 million,” Minister Cannonier said. “It is anticipated that the agreement with the new developers for Grand Atlantic will be completed and the Bermuda Housing Corporation will receive $9 million over four years for the sale of property.”

Grand Atlantic was planned by the previous administration as a housing development, however only one unit sold in the first six months, and last year the Government announced it will be taken over by Caribbean-based MacLellan & Associates who plan to turn it into a condo hotel named the ‘Bermudiana Beach Resort.

Minister Wayne Scott told the House the former Government paid $42 million to build the development, and the estimated value of the property is now about $17 million, while Finance Minister Bob Richards said it was a “very expensive miscalculation” and said Grand Atlantic should be called the “Grand White Elephant.”

“Why give it away at that price?” asked Shadow Minister of Tourism Zane DeSilva, who suggested that local hotel owners such as David Dodwell or the Green Family might have been interested at that price, adding that he himself will buy it for $10 million.

A 4 minute excerpt of the exchange in the House [Dennis Lister and Craig Cannonier]

Transcription of the exchange in the audio above:

Minister Craig Cannonier: Madam chair,  for the fiscal year of 2014/15 the Bermuda Housing Corporation required a budget of supplement of one million eight hundred thousand dollars. Due to the reclassification of the Bermuda Housing grant, for Grand Atlantic from the operational budget to capital budget. Madam chair, the Grand Atlantic loan balance currently stands at thirty-six million, seven hundred thousand dollars. It is anticipated that the agreement with the new developers for Grand Atlantic will be completed and Bermuda Housing Corporation will receive nine million dollars over four years for the sale of property. Again this is money that was already allocated, we’re just moving it from one area over into capital budget because it is anticipated that the property will be sold which is proper and better accounting practice to move from operational to capital.

Chair: Thank you are there any other members that would like to speak to head number sixty-five Bermuda Housing Corp. The chair recognizes the member from constituency number thirty-five, the Honourable Dennis P. Lister, Shadow Minister of Public Works.

Dennis Lister: Thank you madame chair. Just for clarification sake  [*] the nine million that you get in a year from the deal for the new developer, is is nine a year spread over that period, or is that period … So nine million a year or nine spread over that time, so it’s a total of nine million that you are getting.

Chair: Member may I remind you that those people that might be listening are only hearing one side of that conversation. If you can ask, then I will ask the Minister to stand.

Dennis Lister: Thank you. The loan the Bermuda Housing Corporation is currently holding is thirty-six million dollar loan for the property, correct? The property is now going to be taken over by a new developer who’s going to turn it into hospitality units, and Bermuda Housing Corporation are going to get nine million dollars over four years. No, no, no, that’s what we’re trying to clarify is it nine million once its just spread over four, or is nine million each year for four years?

Chair: Thank you, the chair recognizes the Minister.

Minister Craig Cannonier: Thank you very much. My understanding is that it’s it’s nine million over four years. So it would be the nine million dollars divided by four.

Chair: Thank you the chair recognizes the member from constitu….

Dennis Lister: Thank you for the clarification too.

Chair: I can’t have two people standing. The chair now recognizes the member from constituency 35.

Dennis Lister: Thank you for the clarification Minister. So it’s actually nine over four years which means you get two million something each year. So the total received will be nine million on a 36 million property.

Chair: Thank you the chair recognizes the Minister.

Minister Craig Cannonier: Yes, but then Bermuda Housing Corporation will have to ensue then with an agreement with the bank for the rest which will be twenty-seven million, seven hundred thousand after you take away the nine million. Bermuda Housing Corporation has to work out a plan with the bank whether it’s fifteen years, twenty years, whatever that is, we don’t know yet. They are still negotiating that.

Minister Clarifies Statement

Update 7.29pm: In a statement this evening, Minister Cannonier said, “I wish to clarify my statement that was made in the House of Assembly on Tuesday morning.

“The final conceptual presentation of the plans and feasibility data for the Grand Atlantic property has been submitted by the MacLellan & Associates. The Government is moving forward with their review and due diligence to ensure all conditions presented of the MOU have been met.”

“The intent of the Government has always been that the project would include the sale of the property and a significant long-term investment in the improvement of the amenities of the property.

“The improvements will provide short and long-term jobs and economic growth to the Bermuda economy and help to stimulate the Tourism industry. The current developer’s budget for conversion of the property is US $24.5 million.”

“The negotiations are at a very sensitive stage and once concluded, the full terms of an agreement will be released to the public.”

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  1. swing voter says:

    when listening to that debate in the wee hours, I think some comments from the opposition were dis-in-genuine considering they built that overpriced housing project that has been devalued to less than half of the cost of building it…then Zane has the nerve to say he’ll buy it for 10M? LOL saddening

    • Family Man says:

      I guess he can afford it. How much was the over-spend on Port Royal for moving a bunch of dirt around?

      • Black Soil says:

        Enjoy “PLP-fallout”

      • MAKE MY DAY says:

        PS: Who let DeSilva move that dirt around – for that amount of $$??

    • MAKE MY DAY says:

      Now I can partly understand how the Island got to the point of being $2+ BILLION in the hole!! Complete incompetence!!

      The PLP were and still are a bunch-of-idiots – especially with the Tax Payers $$$!!

      And…. Why did the “opposition” NOT try and stop all of this malarkey – before it got out-of-control??

  2. Triangle Drifter says:

    Another stale dogs breakfast left behind by the PLP that the taxpayer is getting the very short dirty end of the stick to pay for.

    Nobody on the PLP side has any grounds for input on this mess that they created.

  3. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL says:

    I think Im still baffled at this whole thing. Didn’t the OBA and their supporters suggest that the building of this site was a bad idea on the grounds that it will fall into the ocean? And now they are seeking to develop it even further??

    Extremely confused at this whole situation…..

    • Come Correct says:

      I’ll help. Firstly, it was not the oba who said that, it was BEST and David Windgate. Second, the new developer is most likely going to increase the height of the barrier wall at the base of the cliffs.

      Remember south shore by John Smiths bay in Fabian? The road there is approximately the same height as the existing barrier wall and that road was completely destroyed. Nobody said the cliffs would fall into the ocean on a random night. The barrier wall just needs to be higher because the cliffs won’t take the height and force of hurricane waves.

      • LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL says:

        OK, they were not the first to say this, but the concurred with it and so did many of their supporters. Just have a read of all the articles on this subject and look at the comments sections on both the RG and Bernews. Its all there so I am not making this up.

        • serengeti says:

          If it was such a great idea, why hasn’t Zane offered $42m?
          That’s cost price. A bargain.

          • LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL says:

            Never said it was a great idea, you said that, I was simply stating something that everyone is overlooking.

            • iabingi says:

              What’s your point, the development is there..what are you suggesting that we do with it ?

        • Come Correct says:

          I answered you and you move the goal posts. Who cares what armchair engineers had to say about it, facts are facts. It also doesn’t even take an engineer to know you can go down there and dig a cave in the cliff using your hands. The cliff is eroding, that was and still is a fact. The new developer will now build a larger barrier wall. Its really that simple.

        • Soken says:

          LOLOLOLOLOL…just so you know the whole island felt that way, not just BEST or the OBA!

          How many PLP ministers, their family, friends or supports rushed out to buy these properties. If this was an OBA thing surely, all the PLP faithful would have rushed out and purchased these units, if for no other reason but to prove the OBA wrong!

          Instead, what happened (chirk, chirp, chirp) 1 sold in six months. ONE, not one floor, one block,ONE unit sold. Therefore it is safe to say nobody thought it was a good long term investment, at least not with out a better breakwall to ensure their wouldn’t be massive errossion during a huricanne.

      • Another idiot says:

        So tell us why the Reefs Hotel hasn’t fell into the ocean? Stop being a ****.

        • Come Correct says:

          The rock at the reefs location is weathered, grey and hard. The cliff at grand atlantic is practically sand and eroding. Is it really that difficult?

    • SMH says:

      Where does it say they’re developing it further

      • LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL says:

        Have a look at the other article where they want to make additions to the site.

        • SMH says:

          Seriously? What’s the article called because I can’t find it?

    • JD says:

      It’s really not that difficult. A lot of people including the board of the BHC said it shouldn’t have been built in the first place. Nothing has changed – it shouldn’t have been built in the first place. No one has changed their mind because there is a new party in power. There are still concerns over the cliff face.

      However the former government went a head and built it anyway, and its been a complete disaster. So now what do we do?

      No one is suggesting that we “further develop” the site – you are misunderstand what is being proposed.

      You can either let it sit there and rot, tear it down, or retrofit (add a pool, some elevators, etc) into something that might help the situation a little. Just trying to make a little lemonade out of this lemon, that’s all.

      • LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL says:

        Could have sworn several OBA ministers and supporters concurred with the BHC judging from past RG and Bernews articles including the comments sections. Just have a read yourself and you will see. Its all there so people can deflect, disagree and condemn what I posted all they want, truth is, it was said and written.

        By the way, correct me if I am wrong here, but any additions whatsoever to an already existing site would that not be considered further development? I mean come on, its like you said adding a pool and some elevators is development is it not?

        • serengeti says:

          You recall things that didn’t actually happen. That’s the problem.

          If you think they did, give us the links.

          Links, or they didn’t happen.

          • LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL says:

            Thats the problem with all of you, you want someone else to do all the work for you instead of taking the time to look for it yourselves.

            • serengeti says:

              It never happened. You can’t prove it, because it doesn’t exist.

    • Onion says:

      No, nobody said that.

      In case you haven’t noticed the rock face has collapsed near these condos recently. This will now be the developer’s problem.

      • LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL says:

        Have a read of the past articles on the subject.

        • Politricks says:

          Show us the links?

          You’re making the accusations.

  4. flikel says:

    I am still confused as to why these units have not fallen into the ocean yet.

    What is even more confusing is why a developer would invest in this property as that cliff will erode soon.

    Should BEST and the OBA be against further development for safety reasons? After all, that cliff will give way and the units will be ocean bound soon. Who would insure such a dangerous property whose cliff is soon to erode?

    Also, why weren’t similar safety concerns expressed about the Reefs Hotel, which is on the same system of cliffs?

    Lots of interesting questions.

    I fondly remember hearing BEST and the OBA (including currents MPs) condemn those housing units to falling into the ocean. It was funny to hear their supporters, especially the OBA, deny they overtly expressed safety concerns about that cliff.

    • LiarLiar says:

      First of all the submitted plans by the developer include further reinforcing of the cliff face as reported by local news organizations.

      Second of all in 2009 the BHC board unanimously voted against this proposed development, but was overridden by politicians.

      Once their decision was disregarded several of the BHC board members resigned in protest.

      They weren’t worth the $700k then and they definitely are not worth anywhere near that now.

      The Government built non-low cost housing in the middle of our now ‘great recession’ which has seen housing prices fall between 25% to 35% for single houses and condos respectively.

      This confirms the most recent appraisal of $17mn versus the $42mn paid out by the PLP at the time.

      You all can continue your nonsensical conspiracy theories all day if you want. But the fact of the matter is that the PLP built this monumental failure by disregarding the views of the BHC board and in the middle of a recession in which all local real estate prices have substantially declined.

      Lastly, when the politicians announced this Grand failure of a project they also promised a 3 star hotel will be built. What happened there?

      I wish for once the PLP would take just a little bit of responsibility for their screw ups. And this unfortunately is a massive one that will cost the BDA taxpayer for years to come.

      • flikel says:

        Friend, I am not questioning the circumstances surrounding the building of the Grand Atlantic. I am wondering what happened to all those safety concerns, which were vocally expressed.

        You mention further reinforcing of the cliff face, this option was not considered sufficient enough to silence the critics during the PLP reign. Yet, it seems sufficient now, why?

        Proposals to reinforce the cliff face, during the PLP years, were disregarded, deemed to be insufficient and a waste of time….as no man made structure could stop the inevitable cliff erosion, which would be accelerated with hurricanes…and one big hurricane would be enough to cause those units to fall into the ocean.

        Besides, why weren’t similar concerns expressed about the Reefs? Are those cliff faces reinforced?

        • LiarLiar says:

          I remember the cries that the 4ft barrier wall built at the base of the cliff will do nothing.

          I cannot recall anyone who said that despite reinforcement the issues will continue. Who said that and where?

          The plans submitted by the developer included further reinforcing of the cliff due to erosion fears.

          Planning delayed their decision as they mandated that the developer ensure the proposed pool is moved farther away from the cliff face amongst other concerns regarding its stability.

          Actually a recent March 5 2015 news article highlighted the dangers of the Southlands cliffs as one had collapsed due to the weather last month.

          I am no geologist and cannot speak on the Reefs development and I am sure you aren’t qualified either.

          But the outcry over Grand Atlantic was mainly the fact that Government should not be interfering or participating in real estate development. And unfortunately this project has proven these people right. That includes the BHC members who voted unanimously against the project with several of these individuals resigning after being overruled by politicians.

          They were not worth the price in 2009 and are worth even less now. Also, keep in mind that the Government had arranged 100% financing from a local bank and yet only one family purchased a unit.

          But either way you are right, it is all a conspiracy theory as opposed to basic economics and math. It always is.

        • LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL says:

          Was about to post something similar. Its all there in the past articles and comments sections. Why won’t the supporters just read instead of shooting from the hip?

          • serengeti says:

            Because it isn’t “all there”. The OBA didn’t say this stuff. A few people did, and another few people disagreed with them. And now you’re trying to make it sound like it was an official OBA stance or something. It wasn’t, and it never was.

            But prove me wrong. Give us some links.

            • LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL says:

              Like I said, do the research yourself. Stop being lazy!

      • Real talk (original) says:

        You need to check your math there mate. Even a decrease in the value of 35% is 27million. Nowhere near the 9 million (spread over 4 years no less so factor in inflation , etc) that the government seem willing to accept for it.

        • LiarLiar says:

          Which means that the PLP seriously overpaid for this development in the first place.

          No surprise there.

          Imagine if they actually built the 3 star hotel they promised as part of the development.

  5. Rhonda says:

    When they came with their Bibles and said close your eyes, let us pray. When we opened our eyes we had the bible and they had the land.

    • jt says:

      Have you been hanging out with the laughing bird lately?

    • aceboy says:

      Yawn

      Religion is nothing to do with this at all. Keep it in the church and stop acting as if you are oh so pious.

      The PLP built a huge white elephant despite being advised by EVERYONE not to do it. 40 million down the tubes. Nothing will change that.

      • LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL says:

        This is true! But the missing point now is that the OBA seems to approve of G.A. by showing its willingness to make further additions and offer it up as a boutique hotel. I thought it wasn’t safe? But we are gun hoe to get tourists up there…….what kind of message are we saying here?

        And before you or anyone else says it, Im not defending the PLP, Im simply highlighting a point that should be mentioned.

        • aceboy says:

          As has been pointed out…part of the new development plan is to shore up the cliff face. It would NOT be safe without doing that.

          I don’t think people balked at those units because the OBA told them they were unsafe. That would be a decision people would have to make for themselves. How can you blame the OBA for people NOT buying. Why would a PLP voter listen to the OBA and not buy???? Makes no sense at all and is a pure smoke screen for the slamming of efforts to get *something* out of this hideous monument to incompetence.

          • LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL says:

            I understand you and you have a point. Still a wall will not stop nature from tearing that down. The thing is the whole site is unsafe, period, nor will it ever be.
            The crucial thing you are missing though is that the idea of it being unsafe was pushed by both the BHC and the then opposition and now fast forward to today, the entire site gets a thumbs up for further development despite the protests of the past.
            Why now all of a sudden, is no one standing by their original thoughts and criticisms? That just leads me to believe that people will say anything to gain others support. That goes for both the PLP and the OBA by the way.

            • Edmund Wells says:

              “That just leads me to believe that people will say anything to gain others support. ”

              LOL&c:

              They will. They certainly will.

              And then they won’t provide proof of what they’ve said when challenged, and call the people who challenge them lazy.

              Funny world, eh?

              EW

  6. campervan says:

    This is a simply a reflection of the true value of real estate in Bermuda, and not the value that is touted by real estate companies.
    Lets be honest with ourselves and get used to the new normal.

    • CJ says:

      Campervan is 100% correct. The sooner we are honest about this the better. Bda real estate has dropped much further than people want to admit. In this case – more than 50%. This is not an OBA problem.

      It is a BERMUDA problem.

  7. “A bird in hand is worth two in the bush”. Thank you One Bermuda Alliance…
    Yes, its truly a crying shame knowing the people of Bermuda have a debt of $36 million to pay off over x amount of years :-( Who’d benefited here? because it sure as hell wasn’t the people of Bermuda!

  8. Rhonda says:

    So oba is selling Grand Atlantic for 9 million what a shame. I most certainly would have preferred the white elephant over giving away the land.

    you mean to tell me if the going price is now 9 million for 42 apts. We couldn’t give first preferences to our people.

    • CJ says:

      Our people did have first preference. They chose not to buy apart from one single person.

      Do not confuse what something cost, against what it is worth.

      The blame for this lies squarely with PLP.

      Note: reading the Bible will only help the church person collecting guilt money.

      • LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL says:

        But why did they refuse to buy it……………..safety concerns. Now its ok to give to the tourists amide no real change to any safety on the site. Strange don’t you think?

        • jt says:

          I think the concern for Bermudians was mostly two pronged. First, the units were overpriced for what was being offered, particularly in light of the existing market (bhc pointed this out and was overvruled). Second, there were long term concerns over the cliff stability and how that might affect one’s personal investment.
          I don’t think they failed to sell because potential buyers were concerned about falling into the ocean within a couple years, or even 10 or 20 years. But each time the edge moves closer the value of one’s asset and the potential to utilize that asset diminishes. People were smart enough to recognize this.
          The present dynamic, given the purchase price, is very different and I would venture to guess that the investors have considered various timelines and a range potential investment gains (or losses) and having done so have decided to assume any risk.

          • LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL says:

            Interesting point of view. Still, if they didn’t sell based on your view, why are they now being marketed as a valuable tourism product?

            What I gather from you comment is that as time marches on, the value of the asset will diminish, correct? That said, in the long term the investors in this site stand to lose money, a considerable amount. Doesn’t sound very promising and I would like to think that the investors made their money by making smart investments.
            Then again, they could sell it off before its value decreased past the point of no return. In the end, who really knows…………

            • jt says:

              There are several avenues for the investors to make money and lose money with this project and they go beyond, but certainly include, the potential for the property to appreciate or depreciate in value. It is, of course, up to them to assess the risks involved.
              A home owner’s ability to benefit from their investment is relatively limited by comparison. And in a case where the target market was lower income purchasers it’s fair to say their appetite for risk tolerance would be significantly less than those presently involved.

            • Come Correct says:

              What part of building a larger barrier wall, to stop wave erosion, don’t you get? No erosion, no loss of property value.

            • bermyluv says:

              Smart investment means paying the right price. I would buy one of those for 100K and rent it to tourists, if they came. I would probably make much more than my investment back before they fall in the ocean in 25 years. Buying a home to live in vs. buying a property for investment are completely different propositions.

    • Ann says:

      Really, why don’t you ask Zane to put his money where his mouth is and offer 10 million? I would have assumed anyone who has anything to do with the PLP would be quiet on this one, CONSIDERING the whole MESS is because of their greed!!!! Please someone explain how they even have the guts to whimper a word on this.

      • jt says:

        Can you imagine the uproar if Dodwell had purchased these as DeSilva suggested? What a bunch of fluff.

    • Sickofantz says:

      But couldn’t the people buy those apartments now for 220K each? That would add up to 9 million?

      • Edmund Wells says:

        Doesn’t that ignore cost of operation? The hotel concept offers the possibility of revenue to fund operation and maintenance as well as service the debt and, possibly, offer a return to investors in the units.

        Selling the units to occupants does not, unless a maintenance/common charge fee is set at a level to do the same, which may offset the benefit of a low purchase price.

        EW

        • There seems to be an oversight here, “jobs”. This development will create without any doubt jobs for Bermudians…As we all know, that’s something there is a shortage of at this time :-(

  9. Navin Johnson says:

    Drive on over to Grand Atlantic…ugly mess of concrete…$250,000 each sounds about right and they still would not sell….the back is owed over $35,000,000 or over $800,000 each so cut your losses and move on…..another PLP mess

  10. Future Alliance says:

    So help me understand all of this here. We booted the incompetent financial managers known as the PLP for a better more astute team. AC2017 and also a strategy of looking under the hood to create better value.

    Grand Atlantic Cost – $42,000,000

    Outstanding Loan – $36,700,000

    2015 Sale Price – $9,000,000 (spread over 4 years) ASSET

    Government still has to repay the $36,700,000 due to the bank – LIABILITY

    so how this maths work Ministry of Finance? This looks like the Government (i.e. People of Bermuda) have given Financial Assistance in the tune of $36,700,000 to a PRIVATE DEVELOPER, so the PRIVATE DEVELOPER can purchase a Government Asset at a discount of $36,700,000

    Let me go read my CFA book on Net Present Value and try again to analyse this here transaction mate as I looked under the hood and it looks fishy

    • Onion says:

      Yeah, check your textbooks again. The “sunk cost” section.

      Also, writing down assets in the accounting section.

      The value was destroyed at the the time they were built. Spent $42 million to build something that was ultimately an asst worth far less. So a huge loss was incurred.

      Entirely predictably, I might add.

    • LiarLiar says:

      They are not worth the original cost.

      They were initially overpriced and with the depressed real estate market they are not even close to the original cost paid out by the PLP.

      Actually anyone who purchase BDA real estate around the same time these were built has experienced a value drop of between 25% to 35% depending on whether it was a single home property or a condo. A lot of negative equity all over this island.

      So for people who purchased a $1mn house in 2007/8 they unfortunately have seen their property fall by approximately $250k and thus their liabilities (i.e. loan) outstrips their asset (i.e. house).

      Hopefully your CFA Level 1 book should educate on that basic premise.

      If you think something is fishy then start at the beginning as to why they cost so much in the first place, why the PLP overrode the BHC board members who unanimously voted against this development, why no promised 3 star hotel was ever constructed simultaneously and how the developer was able to acquire the rest of the land to build even more ugly Grand condos.

    • LiarLiar says:

      And as Minister Scott said last night:

      “Yes, the government will get approximately $9 million,” Mr Scott said. “It’s estimated that there will be another $9 to $10 million over the next few years in taxes and fees, et cetera, and the BHC will also keep a couple of units, so that the Consolidated Fund will ultimately get back what the property is actually valued at today.

      “Part of that being discussed is that the bank will have to participate in the reality of what that property is worth today. Let’s not confuse what was paid for something versus what something is worth. Because those are two completely different things.”

    • Family Man says:

      Everything the plp touched looked fishy.

      Just because you’ve got a $36m mortgage on a property does not mean its worth $36m. The property was open to development ideas. The process was even extended to try to drum up more business plans to use the property. This was the best of a sorry bunch.

    • jt says:

      Are you really a cfa? Really?

      • serengeti says:

        Nah. he might have a ‘CFA book’ but he’s no CFA.

  11. aceboy says:

    If Zane wants it for 10 million I say sell it to him.

  12. CJ says:

    Yes, sell it all to Zane PLEASE. It would certainly take the smirk off his face when they fall in the ocean – after he has found that he can’t insure them.

  13. Vote for Me says:

    A couple of questions.
    What happens to the $42m mortgage? Is government paying it off on behalf of BHC?

    Does the bank request $36m and let BHC pay the balance as they receive the $9m?
    How come the units were not simply sold to Bermudians for $220k which is the price the developer is effectively paying?
    If we accept a current value of $19m and the 35% drop in real estate, the original value was $29m. Why were the units built against the BHC Board’s advice?
    Which entity takes the loss in value – BHC or the Consolidated Fund – we are just in time for PATI!!
    Is Governmetn providing any guarantess for the $9m being paid by the developer? If we think about it, why would the banks lend money for the Grand Atlantic? What will they do if the developer defaults?
    What will BHC do with the units they retained?

    Just a few questions!!

  14. clearasmud says:

    This sale for $9mil does not make sense given that the BHC (aka the people) will still have to pay the outstanding $27Mil balance to the bank! If the government is going to give this property away then there should have been an attempt to sell them at reduced prices say $300,000 to citizens.Since no attempt was made we dont know if it would work but its not too late to try!

    • bermyluv says:

      I can assure you that the one resident who purchased probably paid closer to the 300K number you stated then what they were listed for and made out like bandits off of our taxes from this deal. People just weren’t interested in purchasing, even with nothing down. But if they are going for 150k now, I would even get one. 9 million is way too low.

    • O'Brien says:

      Put your thinking cap on. What would happen to property values if government flooded an already depressed housing market with 40+ units at bargain-basement prices?

      Government would be wise not to take your advice.

  15. Bill says:

    talk about give it away!!!! Where is Bob Richards? How is this responsible fiscal management? We the tax payers will have to pay off the 36 million minus 9 million!! Again, we the taxpayer will have to pay this off, all so Bob and the OBA can say at the next election “we balanced the budget despite the nah Sayers”.
    PEOPLE WE NEED TO RECOGNIZE WHAT THIS OBA GOVT ARE REALLY DOING and STAND UP!!!

    • Kangoocar says:

      @bill aka Betty !!! Why don’t you take the lead and stand up against the OBA??? You can simply buy this huge mess that YOU and YOUR plp made and you will be a genuine Bermuda hero for saving the tax payers another huge cost made by yourselves!!! Come on, show us what a stand up guy you are???

      • Come Correct says:

        Give me an O! Give me a B! Why don’t you and Raymond Ray get a room alreadA! Not everything is a plp conspiracy and not every completely delusional moron is “Betty”. Give it a rest for once.

        • Kangoocar says:

          Trust me, bill is one of the Bettie’s, wake up dude or dudette!!!!

          • Come Correct says:

            If you choose to paint every plp supporter with the Betty brush, then yes, but this is not the person behind the “Betty” alias. I know this because I observe. I know this like I know you have a complete oba bias, I know this like you own your own company, I know this like you apparently don’t need this company any more because you have made your money on the backs of other people you are reluctant to pay their worth, I know your employees would quit if they had another place to work, I know you need a lesson on the difference between to, too, and two. Trust me, there are completely delusional morons all around us, but this is not “Betty”.

            More “I knows” have been excluded as not to enlighten either party’s cheerleading squad.

            • Kangoocar says:

              You are wrong on all accounts? First off, if you really knew me, you would know that my father was outright attacked by the UBP in their early days and those that really controlled Bermuda back in the late 60′s did everything they could to bankrupt him and they actually succeeded!! So don’t give me that nonsense that you know who I am because you don’t!!! Also, I only am supporting the LESSER of the two evils in this Islamd, plain and simple!! Also, I built my company from NOTHING all by myself and once became successful hired staff when I didn’t need the money any more, once again you are WRONG!!! Also, my 100% Bermudian staff are paid way over the above average Bermudian salary in Bermuda, once again you are WRONG!! Also, my staff actually are very happy with the way I treat them and what they get paid, another time you are WRONG!!! The only thing you are correct about is, I always mix up to and too?? But never do I throw in a TWO!!!

              • Impressive says:

                Lesser of two evils?? What next, I would say you are definitely in the top five most biased posters on this website, OBA and PLP supporters included… Actually top three.

                • Kangoocar says:

                  People like you just can’t face the truth?? I only say things truthfully, and the plp have done a lot of carnage to this island and people like you keep your heads buried in the sand concerning it??? To this day the plp have never acknowledged or apologized for it??? The funny thing is, the plp hurt their own supporters the most and the vast majority of them still can’t see it?? I diagnosed their problem as be, colored blind!!! When it comes to the OBA, they are doing all that can be done to repair the damage, but are constantly having to waste time fighting with the plp who continue to put sticks in the spokes of the wheels of progress everyday??? But when the OBA do stupid things, I also am the first to jump all over them, and beleive I am not nice about it!!! When jet gate first started to surface, you should have read how nasty I was towards them, I only speak the truth and will say it in the most blunt way I can to get my point across!!

            • Impressive says:

              I think someone just lost a knight and a bishop in one move. ;-)

    • Edmund Spenser says:

      “PEOPLE WE NEED TO RECOGNIZE WHAT THIS OBA GOVT ARE REALLY DOING and STAND UP!!!”

      I agree, everyone stand up. The OBA deserves a standing ovation for getting us out from under Grand Atlantic.

  16. bluebird says:

    As martin luther king said,our biggest problem is MASS ignorance.

    • Triangle Drifter says:

      Winston Churchill said words to the effect of, If you ever wanted confirmation of how poor the democratic is, spend 5 minutes talking with an average voter.

      About the same as Martin Luther King but observed long before him & can be confirmed daily in Bermuda by listening to talk radio, reading the forums & listening to some of those who were given the priviledge of representing us in the HOA.

  17. Rasta says:

    The Grand Atlantic, a reminder why we should never vote PLP !

  18. Huh says:

    If the DUMB PLP had never built Grand Atlantic we wouldn’t be having this stupid conversation right now.

  19. aceboy says:

    Just wait and see what Tuckers Point sells for compared to its cost.

    The hotel cost about 350 million, then you have to add the golf course development and beach club. Probably closing on 500 million. I doubt they will get more than $50 million for it.

    That is a turn key operating business too.

    Just a bad business decision. Just like Grand Atlantic.

    The only difference is that Tuckers Point was a private venture while Grand Atlantic involved government, through the BHC.

    Of course the initial idea of the Grand Atlantic was to put a 4 star hotel right next to the “affordable housing” they actually built. Anyone with any common sense could see that as a disaster from inception. A bad business decision from the get-go coupled with political motivation to kill two birds with one stone and provide cheap (turned out not so cheap) housing at the same time. I’m sure it looked good to some people on paper, sadly those people were the decision makers and not the advisors.

  20. darren says:

    not too sure on # of units but according to ber news its 78.$9million divided by 78 is$ 115,384.i am pretty sure they would have sold to locals at that price!

  21. chip says:

    For that money they could build something else? Hello work