“Part Of Phobia Comes From Religious Doctrine”
[Updated] The Bible is “full of great stuff” but also has “some real scary crazy stuff” and part of phobia comes from “religious doctrine”, Attorney General Mark Pettingill said on Friday [June 14] in the House of Assembly.
MPs were debating an amendment to the Human Rights Act to ban discrimination based on age or sexual orientation, which was passed with the vast majority of politicians from both sides of the aisle supporting it.
Speaking on the matter, Mr Pettingill said: “You know I have to touch on it for a minute, a large part of the phobia and the fear has come out of religious doctrine that people have been inducted with since they were young. In some churches, not in all churches, thank God. Not in all churches, but in enough.
“We have even seen that where Ministers have been prepared to come right out and speak about people that are gay somehow being against the teachings of the Bible of God.
“And I always feel some frustration with that. The Governor of Texas when he was asked should the Bible be printed in Spanish….in Texas as they have a lot of Spanish speaking people there….and he made the statement ‘English was good enough for Jesus, so it’s good enough for me.’
“That is the type of stupidity that can abound in people that latch on with this zealous dogma to the teachings of the Bible,” said Mr Pettingill.
Audio of part of Mr Pettingill’s speech in the House:
Mr Pettingill continued, “The Bible is full of great stuff, great stuff, full of great things, good teachings, good teachings…but it is also full of some real scary crazy stuff. Crazy stuff.
“You know tie your son up to an altar and bind him cause you are going to stab him as God put you to the test.
“And, you know, decapitating people for their sins, and blood and guts and all the rest of it…especially in the Old Testament. I wouldn’t read Leviticus to my kids. Wow, they would be terrified to ever go to church. But that’s the teachings.”
“Anyone, to my mind, that wants to adhere completely and think you can take everything from the Bible, this is a frightening thing. A 2,000-year-old teaching that really originated around the time of the Iron Age and people thought the world was flat.”
“This is where it gets scary when the Kool-Aid drinkers get a hold of things, and aren’t prepared to have any critical thought, aren’t prepared to look beyond the whole the Bible transcended through eight languages at least.
“To take that as a teaching and turn it as a tool, as to why we shouldn’t now, in 2013, with all our hearts and minds and souls embrace equal rights across the board…that there can be no human discrimination in any form. To try and use some religious teaching to obviate that position to me is an abomination.
“Thankfully I think that is a view that is shared with many, many people. Thank God that it is. You know I am being a bit facetious right…or thank whoever you want to thank. I am thankful. I am thankful. I am not meaning to bash anybody.
“When my honourable colleague Glenn Smith was saying that there are people out there who have not come back to this country — and I believe this to be the case — because of the perceived homophobia that has existed here.
“And so maybe now they will come home, what a wonderful thought, what wonderful thought. And I hope for every one that does we have one homophobe that leaves and goes somewhere else.
“So all the ones that feel that strongly about this on some religious basis that are entirely homophobic, please get up and leave and go somewhere else.
“Because I think there are a lot of countries not as advanced that will embrace you and say come on in. They can go somewhere else. And I will be happy about that too,” said Mr Pettingill.
Update June 18, 2.38pm: PLP MP Michael Weeks today called Mr Pettingill’s comments “offensive and hateful”, and said he hopes Premier Craig Cannonier “will move swiftly, exercise his authority and encourage his Minister to apologize to the people of Bermuda.” Read Mr Weeks full statement here.
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Articles that link to this one:
- Mark Pettingill ‘Speaking On His Own Behalf’ | Bernews.com | June 19, 2013
- PLP Leader Calls On Premier To Fire Pettingill | Bernews.com | June 20, 2013
- Pettingill Apologizes For Comments On Religion | Bernews.com | June 20, 2013
religious brainwashing has caused untold damage on this earth!
Brainwashing O.k , lets see how you and Mark can interpret this one,
Leviticus 18:22
Thou should not lie with mankind, as with womankind it is abomination.
Leviticus 20:13
If a man also lie with mankind,as he lieth with a woman,both of them have committed an abomination:they shall surely be put to death,their blood shall be upon them
For the record, this is old testament and thankfully through the work of the cross and the death of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ,we have been given a better covenant.
This don’t mean we can live any old way, what it does tell us is that all of our sins, past present and future was covered at the cross. So to make it plain we are responsible for our actions and even though Jesus Christ was made sin for us, it does not entitle us to go against God’s Holy plan for humanity.
Call us what you want, I don’t see no hole in a man that can produce another living being,and I don’t see no instrument on any woman that can produce a seed that brings for life.
So the next time you think about the creation story remember the creator of it all knew what He was doing, when He spoke everything into existence. When Mark laid down to bring about his children I am certain, there was not a Steve there helping in the process.
if any takes offence to this line and direct speaking, I truly make no apologies for stupidity,because it grieves me to see that we have men and women in leadership that have more knowledge than God himself, yet they to one day will have to lay down this life and answer to the same creator for their stupidity.
That is just my take on it and I don’t think I was in class the day that the teacher taught about the big bang theory, So I can only go by what I have learned, so excuse my level of intelligence. I am not sure if my brain ever got washed but I did wash my hair a few times in life.
Mr. Mark Pettingill so you think it’s perfectly normal for another man to stick his PRIVATE PART in another man’s REC***?
Lets take a step back and allow them to kiss on a towel down horseshoe bay beach for all to see.
Is this what Bermuda is coming to. That is not normal Sir, and I have lost all respect to you for even bring up the Bible. I don’t believe for one minute you think it’s ok. If you did you and the rest of the OBA would have given the gay population full rights to get married in Bermuda. All your doing right now is playing with their hearts to win votes. That’s all it is, one big game, so in a few years you can say hey look what we did for the gays in Bermuda.
If that’s the case why not allow them to marry, why stop half way? Stop playing games with these people’s hearts.
Maybe it is going that way, you should leave…
**** off darkside of the moon your a ****** anyways
Actually there’s plenty of instances of homosexuality within the natural world. Homosexual behavior has been observed in at least 1500 species.
Thats A Boldface Bulls**t lie
Actually it’s not. Although I’d love to see what evidence you base your statement on.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior
and before you moan about it being Wikipedia, here’s the Google scholar search on homosexuality in animals
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=homosexuality+in+animals&btnG=&as_sdt=1%2C5&as_sdtp=
People find what they want to find. One thing is for sure: that is some animalistic stuff. So much for advancing society. Some folks are championing more and more base behavior.
Base Behavior? Howso?
Also these studies have large amounts of data to back them up.
I don’t think these studies were done to champion anything, that’s not how science works (after all it’s not religion
), they were probably done to gain a better understanding of sexuality.
wikipedia is your source so tell me have you witnessed homosexual behavior for yourself in Gods animals. i doubt it, or are you just going off of the “studies” of those with the shiny peices of paper we call degrees on their walls
No i haven’t personally witnessed homosexual behavior in animals first hand, but then again i don’t spend my free time watching animals have sex.
Yes i am going off studies. What do you base your statements off apart from your own personal prejudices. Where is your evidence that there is no homosexuality in animals?
5 mins on google found me a youtube video of 2 male lions having sex
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8gttC6P3bE
of course maybe they’re just wrestling
Definition, Leviticus 18:22..
Thow should not lie with mankind as with womankind, it is abomination..
If youre a guy..and you’re guy friend asks if he looks good in his outfit… you tell him he looks like an idiot.. regardless of the truth
If your girlfriend asks you if she looks good in an outfit.. you tell her definitely..she looks gorgeous, regardless of the truth..
… aka you do not lie with the woman as you lie wtih the man, else she’ll come down hard on you
lets try this..
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
The only way to prevent evil would be to take away your freedom to choose. That would also make you as dumb as any animal. Good thing it isn’t your choice.
Or is it?
Epicurus FTW.
ha i thought it was ricky gervais..
Nope, that has it’s roots in ancient Greece.
oooops… sorry mis read yours comment.
ha i knew he got it from ancient philosophers.. didnt know which..
BUT
when i read yours.. i read it as EpicurIOUS…. like the website >.< slow moment for me LOL
No worries.
It’s a pretty kicka$$ quote.
Hitchens’ razor is another fairly awesome quote on the subject of religion
“What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.”
The Bible is self-authoritative… It gives authority to itself. If I was to come to you and say, “I am a doctor and I need to operate on you.” Would you just believe me because I said so (self-authoritative) or would you ask questions. The Bible says, “I am the truth” and no one questions… it is BRAINWASHING
I am glad that someone is not afraid to speak the truth this oba government is hell bent on destroying the morals of this country this island is about to become a cess pit of sin.and if people turn from their wicket ways than I will heal their land these are the words of god.an as for the AG.maybe mommy should have sent you sunday school more often then you want be talking trash about the church
Hey dips**t,
Being ‘gay’ has and will be something found within our island confines no matter that this amendment passed. This law does nothing to ‘destroy the morals of this country’. Being gay has been here for years and I doubt you can point to any justifiable degradation of society because of it. S*d off wanker.
I hope you (or women around you) live by this one as well since it’s in the bible
1 Timothy 2:12
I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.
I’m assuming you follow all of the rules laid down in the old testament, including (but not limited to):
*Executing your children for insulting you – Exodus 21:17, Leviticus 20:9
*Executing blasphemers – Leviticus 24:16
*Executing non believers – Exodus 22:20
*Selling thieves into slavery – Exodus 22:3
If you don’t Obey ALL the commandments in the old testament, then surely you are just picking and choosing rules to follow based on your own insecurities.
No the old Testament was written before Jesus died on the cross. So the New Testament was written after he arose. It wasn’t until then He gave His teachings of love and Kingdom principles. That’s what we should be living by. The 10 commandments still stands but you don’t see the same sacrificing in the New as it where in the Old. The New Testament is the Old Testament, but because Jesus died for our sins, obviously actions had to differ. To someone who actually takes their time out to study God’s Word Mark P sounded very ignorant,but when you don’t know,you don’t know. You receive wisdom and knowledge through reading God’s word. It’s painfully obvious why he sounded so ignorant….lack of The Word.
And what is meant by “this is where it gets scary when the Kool-Aid drinkers get a hold of things” Think about what people drink Kool-Aid…
Athletes and the late residents of Jonestown drink kool-aid.
The biblical teachings on homophobia are old testament. If Christianity says to live by Jesus’ teachings, then surely the homophobic views of the old testament should have been thrown out along with the laws i listed above
This is blasphemy, saying God gave such advice and then later changed “his” mind.
Better get your stones out
The PLP have used the phrase “drink the Kool-Aid” as well.
Is not gluttony also a sin? Seems like that one does not get much air time in Bermuda.
Those condemned here are the Gluttons. “In life they made no higher use of the gifts of God than to wallow in food and drink, producers of nothing but garbage and offal. Here they lie through all eternity, themselves like garbage, half-buried in the foetid slush, while Cerberus, the guardian, slavers over them as they in life slavered over their food.”
It is amazing that people want to spend so much time on a subject that has absolutely zero impact on their lives. Incredible. Absolutely incredible.
I see your true colors shinning through.
they look fabulous
Nasty is nasty. Let’s make nasty legal. Lost my vote OBA. What’s next.Do I have to rent to Little Bo Peep and her sheep that she wants to sleep with in my apartment. NASTY. They have rights too.RIGHT?
Who are you going to vote for next time… As the story said, a vast majority of MPs from both sides voted for it. That means both OBA & PLP MPs voted for it.
40 acres no mule….. you are obviously a racist black person, probably listen to louis farrakhan… Please take your relic of an azz back into the past and stay there…
PLP voted for this or are you blind deaf and dumb.
not to be rude, but seriously, WTH are you talking about
wow
Sacrilegious statements, Pettingill can only run and win in very safe safe OBA seats, where if you place a tree frog to run, the tree frog would win. Amazing these are the antireligous people we have placed in very important seats of country and you ask what is happening to our county? Answer is we placed people like Mark and Crockwell in parliament.
You do realise Pettingill won against Dale Butler in a PLP area, right? SMH
That’s not a PLP area. If you look at the results from the last couple of elections, I believe that Butler vs Pettingill came out extremely close each time.
The OBA should try running Pettingill in Sandys North or St. George’s – I’m sure he’d get lots of votes (yeah right).
Mr. Pettingill,
For your enlightenment:
1) A person who does not agree with your opinions, or the concept of homosexuality, is not a homophobe – they simply have a different point of view from you. That is their right. Unless, you are implying, that under an OBA government, people no longer have the option of thinking for themselves. In which case, in seems the “indoctrination” from the churches you speak of, is being replaced by indoctrination of the State. I know of other countries that practice that too…
2) The word “homophobic” is nothing but a cop-out. It is used in place of rational, open-minded dialogue by those who support the gay movement but wish to instantly silence any who dissent with their lifestyle or opinions. Try another tactic.
3) I’m sorry to disappoint you, but the Christians, Muslims,Jews and other religious folks on this Island, whom you would like to banish from these shores, aren’t going ANYWHERE. And be thankful for that. Since your broke-ass government can’t raise a penny to help the poor and destitute, or our seniors, it lies to these groups to pick up the slack and help those in need. And they’re not afraid of you either. So, no, they’re not going anywhere – but YOU might be, after the next election.
4) Speaking of broke-ass governments, I’m curious as to what class of nations you place this country in – considering that our poor financial status, abysmal healthcare system, failed education system, and high crime rate places us in similar categories to those of third world countries. Less advanced nations? We make some of those places look good!
Portia, the fact that you consider homosexuality to be a “concept” that a person might agree or disagree with demonstrates your ignorance. To say that you disagree with homosexuality is like saying you disagree with being left-handed. It’s stupid. As for your claim that Mr. Pettingill wants to banish Christians, Muslims and Jews, I’m wondering where you conjured up this theory. Nowhere did he say or imply anything of the sort. Again, just stupid.
This is insane commentary. There is a purpose to being left handed, no detriments. While people can indulge in any sexual act they choose to, it doesn’t mean the parts were designed to fit. (And there are always automatic and unavoidable problems that come from any such ‘choice’ – health, sanity you name it. And if it isn’t a choice, it is a compulsion…which is what dumb animals cannot help but avoid. Either way, trying to rationalize the irrational makes you appear….you fill in the blank.
Next you will tell the judge that the way you were born causes you to drive west on Church Street. Follow the law!
It amazes me to see people use the word “choice” as if the vast numbers of homosexuals had one. I am not gay but I have come to understand and realize that it is NOT a choice that they make. They are born that way. What I struggle with as a Christian is to understand why God would wire a vast number of his children this way, call it an abomination and then watch their lifelong struggle to “overcome” this sin. All other sins do seem to come down to a choice and personal freedom, but not this.
Imagine for a moment if the shoe was on the other foot and, as a born heterosexual you were told by society that this was an abomination and sin and that you were now to “change” and live your life with a same sex partner. What would your life be like?
That would be called extinction mate. People fail to realize how they wire themselves yet are quick to blame how they were wired. This “born this way” line of reasoning is complete garbage. There are people who were born having inappropriate attractions to children. We tell them to get themselves in order or pay the price. In fact, we all – as families, friend, taxpayers – pay the price if they do not. There are those born with anger issues and violent streaks. So what: grow up and learn to behave or pay the price. Now to be clear, there are many many folks “born” as junk food addicts, alcoholics, drug addicts etc. Either you learn to CHANGE and become socially adjusted, or you pay the price (and we do to).
There is no escaping immutable laws (and the bible is certainly not the source of any coherent understanding of such laws.)
The good news is, adherence to universal law brings automatic benefits. The not so good news, or good depending on how you look at it, is stepping away from universal laws has automatic consequences commensurate with what you have done. Talk to folks involved in any of the above and you will see how downhill their lives are relative to their potential.
Actually left handers statistically have a shorter lifespan than right handed people. Doesn’t sound like no detriments to me
“As for your claim that Mr. Pettingill wants to banish Christians, Muslims and Jews, I’m wondering where you conjured up this theory. Nowhere did he say or imply anything of the sort. Again, just stupid.”
Perhaps you should listen to his comments that Bernews posted from the debate. He makes it quite clear that he does not believe anyone with a religious affiliation belongs in Bermuda. Disgusting and unacceptable comments from an elected official and a party that claims to be inclusive of all.
Portia, he does not say anything of the kind. Where do you get off saying this kind of nonsense.
He said nothign of the sort..
he said those that wish to discriminate otheres, mainly because of religous teachigns, are welcome to leave.
the key point being about those that still wish to discriminate.
He clearly Sid that if you don’t agree with the new policy leve the island.
And Bermuda would be better if they did…
Portia, didnt I already tell you to shut up based on your bible…. go sit down, better yet go make me a sandwich
Go make your own sandwich. The Bible is full of strong, vocal women who were neither mindless nor silent. So don’t try to classify me based on your close-minded, macho views.
In the bible it actually says women must be silent. They must obey anything a man tells them to do, and they musn’t speak at all in church.
So I think Portia you’d better shut up and make him a sandwich, or you will rot in hell for eternity for not following God’s word.
1 Timothy 2:12
I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.
Please keep quiet if you intend to follow the bible.
WOW
If a BS amendment could change things racism would be gone but it has not. Stop using and abusing the word ‘Homophobic’ because no one FEARS HOMO’s
Being you are throwing out the bible, Gambling and Ganja bills should pass as well.
Interesting comments and i just wonder if they are listening because they are definitely reading these blogs,keep up the good work.
You’re wrong Mr. Pettingill. Phobia is defined as a follows;
a persistent, irrational fear of a specific object, activity, or situation that leads to a compelling desire to avoid it.
A Christians opposition to the homosexual agenda has nothing to do with a fear of it. The Bible does not now, nor has it ever commanded anyone to shun homosexuality because of a fear of it. Christians oppose it because the God of Heaven opposes it. Full stop.
Phobia has to be most overused and most misunderstood word in the last 10 years. I’ll briefly outline my thoughts on the matter;
I do not equate gay rights with the struggle of black people. I believe they are separate and distinct.
I stand in opposition to gay marriage. That doesn’t make me a bigot, a homophobe or a religious zealot. The moment we descend into name calling and attempting to stick people in a box or paint them with the crazy brush, the conversation is now not productive.
I stand with them for equal job opportunities.
I stand against the push to force individuals to rent their homes to homosexuals, if they don’t want to. I will not facilitate that lifestyle and I have every right to take that position even if people don’t agree with it. That doesn’t make me a bigot, a homophobe or a religious zealot. I don’t hate, neither do I fear homosexuals. I simply oppose it.
As a side point, it is disingenuous to highlight some religious nut (there are plenty out there) and use that to make a point. I could point to several examples of atheists, agnostics and those who won’t classify themselves as neither who have done and said crazy and terrible things to make a point about EVERYONE who does not believe that there is no God. That would be as unfair as what you’re doing.
You don’t have to believe what I believe. But I won’t be silenced and I won’t have it under my roof. Is that unreasonable? I won’t be picketing against gay marriage but I will make my views known. Both sides should be heard. That’s what happens in a debate. Any attempt to silence any side of the conversation is draconian.
Everything written above is without maliciousness or venom. I would appreciate a reasoned, rationale response to this from those who are able.
You would presumably have no problem then with a landowner refusing to rent his property to a black person? Or a foreigner? Or a Christian? Or disabled? Presumably that wouldn’t make the landowner a bigot…it would just be the landowner exercising his preference not to facilitate the black / foreign / Christian/ disabled lifestyle.
It’s perfectly ok to discriminate against someone for your own personal reasons. Right?
@Rick Rock- As i stated in my comments- I don’t equate the gay rights agenda with the black struggle and to compare the 2 (IMO) is to belittle the plight of black people that have been systematically disenfranchised all over this world. We cannot honestly say that, that kind and scale of abuse has happened to homosexuals…. Not even almost to the same degree and extent as black people et al.
The other point I would like to raise is the fact that the word discrimination, in many cases can be easily replaced with the word preference. Example- I won’t rent my places to smokers. That is a very common stipulation amongst many landlords. Also, no pets allowed, very common. Is that discrimination against smokers and pet lovers? Yes, it is. The point is that whenever we see the word discrimination, we assume at something evil is happening and that isn’t the case.
Not all discrimination is bad, many times it is simply preference. I’ll bet, if you examine some of your own “preferences”, you’ll find examples of “prejudice” and “discrimination” in many areas of your life. Where you eat, stay, hang around, places you frequent at certain times, etc.
I prefer to not facilitate that lifestyle and that doesn’t make me a bigot.
The final point I will raise is that when it comes to renting real estate, there are many people in Bermuda who won’t rent to black people, white people, Christians, Muslims, foreign and disabled individuals. This has been a reality in Bermuda for centuries. It happens and will continue to do so and no legislation will change that. If a homosexual couple refuse to rent their apartment to me and my Christian wife because our beliefs are in opposition to their lifestyle, then can tell me no and make up any reason why I was unsuccessful in my bid.
This is the reality- much of this legislation is window dressing because it can do nothing to change the hearts of men. Racism is illegal but there are still many racists.
We have to learn to accept the truth about ourselves.
Also Rock- “black” “foreign” and “disabled” are not lifestyles.
Neither is being gay.
You and I disagree on that.
homosexuality has been observed in at least 1500 species in the wild. Do these other species also choose to be gay?
Being religious IS a “lifestyle choice”.
You still can’t discriminate against that.
Just because people still do it is NOT a reason to not have the legislation.
By this logic, we shouldn’t lock our doors because people still get burgled.
Being religious is a lifestyle choice. I agree with you. That’s why I didn’t include it in the list of things that are not lifestyle choices.
The points you are arguing are not the pointsIi made. you should actually read what I wrote and try again.
You should look before you leap.
You asserted that being gay was a conscious choice.
You also compared owning a pet and smoking (both lifestyle choices) to being gay (not a choice).
Furthermore people don’t rent to smokers and pet owners because of damage to property. Smokers make things stink of tobacco smoke, pets molt, smell, claw at things and defecate in places that are not the toilet (sorry to generalize smokers and pet owners).
What damage would renting a property to a homosexual do?
Oh, I read what you wrote. Most of it is obfuscating excuses to hate.
The points you made are debunked by what I said, but, for some reason, you’re ignoring that.
Very well said Truth!
So you have no problem with anyone discriminating against people due to their race, ethnicity, disabilities, age, etc. You seem to feel it’s someone’s right to discriminate, and then lie about it. You even say you would do it. Interesting.
Sandy Bottom- Did you read what I wrote?
Read it and then try again.
At 2.05 pm you said you stand against forcing landlords to rent to homosexuals if they don’t want to, because you don’t want to facilitate the lifestyle. You don’t want it under your roof, you said. You later went on to defend discrimination based on the landlord’s ‘preference’. You said many people ‘prefer’ not to rent to smokers and Chinese people. They get away with it by making up an excuse that the property is not available, you said. It happens all the time, you said.
So you agree with a landlord’s purported ‘right’ to discriminate based on personal preference. You said you would do it in the case of homosexuals, and you think it’s perfectly ok. And you think it’s a landlord’s right to discriminate based on personal beliefs and prejudices. So thst would extend to prejudices against races, ethnic groups, disabled, smokers, anyone the landlord ‘prefers’ not to have.
That’s what you said.
Note- I made no reference to Chinese people.
Note- I never stated that I would make up an excuse. I make (and have made) my opposition known. Others do however make up excuses.
Note- I never stated that discriminating based on race was okay but that it happens all the time.
Legislation does nothing to change the hearts of men. Even after re-reading my text, you still misunderstood what I wrote directly and you missed point entirely.
@ Truth,
Very well put. I read both your comments, I can understand exactly where you are coming from.
“Truth” is you are ignorant. Homosexuality is not a lifestyle any more than being left handed or black is a lifestyle. It’s how people are, not by choice but by birth. Phobic or not, such views are bigoted and based on ignorance.
No reason, no rationale at all. It’s bigoted because you say so? It’s ignorant because you say so?
Try again Billy Mays, this time with some semblance of substance.
The bible: No reason, no rationale at all. It’s the truth because it says so?
LMAO.
Even you will stand before the Creator. You won’t be Laughing in that day.
Just how certain are you that there is no God?
What if you’re wrong and the Bible is right?
I’m not your enemy mate.
Pascal’s Wager is a stupid argument.
How do you know that you believe in the right god?
Claiming to believe in something because you’re afraid of what might happen if you’re seen not to believe is not belief, it’s cowardice.
No, it isn’t Billy Mays. Scientists have been able to map the human genes, yet thus far, there is no evidence of a “gay gene” or that this trait is as common and identifiable as one’s skin color. So it’s not scientifically accurate to say that a person is born that way. Even if you want to take God out of the equation, if you believe in evolution alone, then there is no rationale why nature would endorse an act that does not lead to the propagation of the species. Nature is all about survival of the species, and a desire to mate with one’s own does not align with that.
So when did you choose to be straight? How old were you…and what factors played a role in you coming to your decision?
There is no rationale why in nature there would be disabled people either Portia, but that doesn’t mean we can discriminate against them, does it?
Actually chromosome Xq28 was proposed as the “gay gene”.
If you really want to take survival of the species into account then look at what humans do to the world..
we do so much to survive, that we are f***** up the planet to the point that eventually it itself will kill us…
is that “smart”?
Sexual orientation is as much choice as about who you love… if i could choose who i loved i’d be a very happy person.. but life doesnt work that way.
Wow, this homosexual agenda is coming to Bermuda
Sadly Timothy it’s already here, not surprising since Bermuda tries to follow in the shadows of the U.S.
remind me again what the overall aim of the homosexual agenda is
Where do you draw the line?
Do pedophiles need equal human rights as well?
How about people who perform beaseality? I guess they should be recognized as consenting partners..
While you’re at it you may as well include polygamy & incest to that list since the moral decline seems to be the agenda for some. & stand must be made & made very clear otherwise there’s more to come.
Maybe we should bring back slavery, since that is condoned in the bible. And stoning to death for adultery. Whatcha think?
I think there would be a lot of dead people in Bermuda, since the national pastime is engaging in extra-marital affairs.
I agree with you two. Blacks too, they’re immoral. So are left-handed people; they’re witches. And people with blue eyes aren’t trustworthy. They all choose these characteristics the EXACT SAME WAY homosexuals choose their sexuality.
You are profoundly ignorant, and unaware of your ignorance.
There are no choices when it comes to sex. Only the illusion of choice due the human mind’s capacity to rationalize things that, objectively speaking, are insane.
Oh look it’s this argument again…
Homosexuality is not equatable to pedophilia on the grounds that people in a homosexual relationship are consenting adults. Likewise with animals, they lack the ability to consent.
Children and animals cannot give consent.
This is a disgusting analogy and you should be ashamed of your hate.
Slippery slope argument..
where is any of human rights progress have animals come into play?
Why would they here?
Different orientation does not lead on to different species. Use some common sense.
It amazes me how the whiteman put a phobia on herb and got the world in thinking how its a pretty bad plant that God created…
Er, what has this got to do with Pettingill’s comments?
Which whilst not argued particularly well, are still true. At least he was brave enough to say it too.
@ BoB: You must not be reading the same comments as I am. Mark stated “The Bible is “full of great stuff” but also has “some real scary crazy stuff” and part of phobia comes from “religious doctrine”. You pick the bones out of that… My comment earlier about the phobia people have about herb, which the bible talks about being good in a man’s diet, has been put into a tailspin of lies… And who is responsible for starting people into believing these phobias?
God created lots of poisonous plants. And some nasty naturally-occurring diseases that kill people.
@ Sandy Bottom: Man have brought diseases upon himself, not God… Its because of the disobedience of men these things occur.
On the bank of a river in Africa a little boy is playing. But even as he plays, a parasitic worm is boring through his eye, and it will make him blind. Are you telling me that the God you believe in, the all-merciful God, who cares for us each individually, are you saying that God created this worm, thst can live no other way that to bore its way through an innocent child’s eyeball?
Or are you saying the little boy deserves to be blind because of his ‘disobedience’ to God? Do you want to believe in a God like that?
Did man create all the poisonous plants in the world, or did God?
you are straight up mental if you believe that.
there are diseases that kill animals and trees.. yet you bible thumpers seem to think animals and plants lack free will..
so how did their disobedience cause their disease problems?
I’ll remind you of that next time you’re ill
“A” white man. Not “the”. There’s a difference
@timothy. – How about starting with what is. against the law. Pedophilia, beastality, rape, incest, are all against the law. it is NOT against the law to be homosexual evens if it is classed as an abomination in the bible for men to sleep with men. Likewise, it s not against the law to commit adultery because it is NOT against the law even if it is clearly an abomination, is listed as one of the Ten Commandment which must be obeyed, and for which the punishment is clearly laid down. – death!
Our churches, with the exception of the Catholic Church and maybe one or two others, even marry adulterers who have divorced and then decide to marry someone else. It matters not wether the they are the ‘innocent’ party, no-one says boo about serial adulterers getting remarried as many times as they wish. But do you ever hear anyone suggesting that we enforce biblical morals on adulterers and deny them basic human rights. Is it just possible that religious folk can so e times be seen as total hypocrites when they select those parts of the bible they wish to see enforced to the latter, while ignoring parts of the bible that are clear and concise.
Would you please elaborate on how you would enforce biblical teachings re adultery and whether you support amending the law to criminalize adulterers. Try not to be too hypocritical if and when you attempt to answer this question.
That ‘s why it was fought for, the homosexual agenda is a well thought out one… Right down to the adoption & use of what was once pure such as the word gay & the rainbow, it’s all designed to make it seem more acceptable. If that doesn’t work then they resort to the childish name calling & try to use peer pressure to seem as though there’s something wrong with those that don’t agree with their lifestyle.
I’m not sure that asking to be treated like a human being can really be considered an agenda
Common sense – I cannot speak for Timothy, but I can tell you, that what is “against the law” is a lot less clear than you make it out to be. The laws relating to sexual conduct are changing very rapidly, and not in a positive way.
For example, did you know that in California this year they are planning to pass a bill to make pedophilia a sexual orientation? And that the effect of such a bill is that pedophiles will not be able to be discriminated against, making it legal to have a pedo teaching children?
Did you also know that bestiality is legal is several U.S. states?
Furthermore, did you also know that in certain countries, the Netherlands most particularly, they are fighting to make it legal for adults to have sex with underage children? A couple of months ago the Dutch courts ruled that an organization established to legalize pedophila can continue to exist.
It seems that society is continually pushing the line on what is and what is not “legal” and “acceptable”.
You also mentioned adultery. I can assure you, that while adultery may not be a “crime”, do not think that it is legally acceptable – it’s not! There are legal ramifications for breaking up someone’s marriage. The guilty party is listed as a co-respondent in divorce cases, and may be liable for paying damages and costs. That being the case, why is it necessary to criminalize adultery?
I cannot speak for all Churches, but, as you pointed out, some will marry people who have committed adultery or divorced in the past, and others will not. I do not know what their individual requirements are, whether extensive counseling is required first, or some other stipulation. You’ll have to ask them.
Portia. We are not discussing whether or not homosexuality is legal. It is. The other things you mention, pedophilia, etc, are completely illegal.
The ONLY issue under discussion is whether you can discriminate against someone or not. Whether there is equality or not.
Adultery, by the way, is not illegal. There is no crime of ‘adultery’, at least in Bermuda. It is a crime in some countries of course, where religious zealots make and enforce laws. If we strictly followed the bible we would stone to death any woman who committed adultery. But at some point in our culture it became acceptable to commit adultery without the stonings. And there is no legal recourse at all against the co-respondent in a divorce. If a man sleeps with a married woman, the married woman might face a divorce, but the man she slept with faces no consequence at all.
Ummmm which Bible are you reading??
I think alot of people should go back to Sunday School.
Does the part about jesus saying “He without sin cast the first stone” remind you at all?
these laws were put in place during the old testament as a covenant for between the Israelites and God for freeing them out of bondage.
they couldnt adhere to these laws, so a new covenant was put in place where we are now under the “Grace” of God and the laws are placed in our heart (we should know that adultery, theft, murder, etc is not correct or right).
The main thing that God granted us as human beings is “free will”, but due to sin(satan) many have abused this free will to different levels, hence wjy the world is screwed up the way it is today.
ummm next question,
are there homosexual birds, or dogs, whales, deer, badgers, walruses, lions, bears? should I continue?
next point in hand:
if I am a racist, and proclaim that I hate white people or black people,or fat people, I think that I have put myself in a position to be discriminated against in society.True??
If i’m a sex addict and I am now in a high risk position of catching and spreading STDs, and I come knocking on your door looking for your daughter(or son if most of you would like to see this island turn this way), I have put myself in a position to be discriminated against. True???
by the way im a christian, and though many would say the church is full of hypocrites, so is the job that many of you work at, and the grocery store that you buy your food, and the bar that you have your drink at, and restaurant that you dine…does that make you stop going or quit??
dont get it twisted, God hates sin, but loves the sinner…
There are actually many scientifically reported cases of homosexuality in animals. Hundrds and hundreds of examples.
Got any more amateur scientific theories?
yes,
and with these hundreds of cases, the animals have catched and spread communicable diseases like Aids, endangering their species and also formed self-rights groups too to defend their orientation right?
These same scientific theries that you remain putting all your faith in are the same ones that told you that the Earth and all its perfection started from a “big bang” and we come from single cell amoebas and monkeys too right?
Because a dog humps another dog means he prefers not to procreate and would rather stick to male @#$holes of his own kind?
I think I will continue putting my trust in God and the Good book, and agree to disagree with you your “scientists”, wikipedia and google…
You asked whether there are instances of homosexual behaviour in animals, and I answered. There are hundreds of examples. You appear upset by this fact.
In answer to another one of your questions: No, they haven’t catched (sic) and spread AIDS.
You know heterosexuals can spread HIV too, right?
Nope animals don’t need to form gay rights, because homophobia is only present in humans.
You can put your trust in God and the Good book all you want.
Go for it.
What you shouldn’t be able to do is force anyone else to do the same.
Do you see anywhere in the bible that God calls a sin an abomination,I don’t think you will ever find it for any of the sins you have listed above, but you are guaranteed to find it for homosexuality.Please look up the definition of the word abomination and you would find, it described as utter disgust and hatred among other definitions.
So if the creator says it is utter disgust,where do we have the right to call it beautiful or loving.
Remind me where it says god wrote the bible?
Why do other people have to follow the rules of your religion, Mr. Santucci?
What the MP said is 100% true, but I don’t know if Bermudians are at the stage to have an intelligent discussion about the matter. Judging from the comments section…
well said
Who do you believe in?
Is it Buddah, Jehovah, or Jah? Or Allah?
Is it Jesus? Is it God? Or is just yourself?
Definitely not to be imposed, being a demon
Because this is the joy of believing!
Men, to believe in yourselves
But for sure, the higher power
Resides only to ride in the heart of the true
From the soul, of the man; for truth never has an alibi…
thank you for quoting my song on betterdayz
MP Pettingill has done a tremendous disservice to himself and Bermuda if the comments as reported are true.
Whilst he appears to by trying to dismiss Christians only, he has effectively dismissed all religious groups, including Muslims, Hindus, Rastafarians, Jehovahs Witnesses etc since all based their beliefs on historic writings.
As indicated in some of the other posts, his comments indicate a rather shallow thinking since he summarises all opposition s homophobic!! Such a summary is ridiculous since many are opposed to same sex relationships for a variety of reasons which have nothing to do with any fear of same sex couples.
One question is how have we defined sexual preference?? There are many that have various sexual preferences that they would like to express or practice and without a specific definition, Bermuda may have entered deeper into ‘non discrimination’ than it realizes.
On a related note, it is interesting that the OBA have omitted to include discrimination in employment based on age. With a little analysis, it would be easy to conclude that the OBA are more concerned about the economics of age discrimination rather than the social and personal implications.
“If the comments reported are true”
The audio of the comments is posted above…
Well said Vote for Me !! Well Said it outright suggest Mr.Pettingill an AG that is of no good, and needs to be removed from his post. He seems to lack an intelligent sense of issues in this country. Looks like he needs to get back on JETGATE and take another trip, but this time do not return…. He has lead the OBA down a Muddy pathway and it will be he that will be their on doing…
Mark always has been a mass of contradictions and like most lawyers is far too fond of the sound of his own voice. He confirms my long held belief that all lawyers ( and doctors) should be permanently banned from politics and any sort of public office.
” all lawyers ( and doctors) should be permanently banned from politics and any sort of public office.”
alright Pol Pot, settle down
Wow! You ignorant people are so funny. Rent an apartment Little Bo Peep and her sheep? Homosexual Agenda? What are you people smoking? Or maybe the dosage on your meds need to be increased. To equate a basic human right to beastiality and pedophilia just astounds me.
Go back to the bible and read it slowly.
There are 667 sins listed in the bible. No sin is greater then the other right? If there is anyone here who has not commited one of those 667 sins then by all means continue with your ridiculous comments.
So by your reasoning legalizing one sin is OK since there’s so many others out there? That’s that slippery slope I mentioned earlier…
UBP legalized gay sex & it seems like OBA are here to finish the rest of the agenda…
As was mentioned earlier,Members of BOTH parties supported the amendment!
Do you still stone blasphemers. I’m assuming you don’t and you do not long for the days when this happened.
Why is this any different?
what does it matter to you what two consenting adults do in the privacy of their own bedroom
So, it was the evil UBP who legalized gay sex. TIME WILL TELL needs to check the facts. Every single leader of the PLP from the date of that vote on the Stubbs Bill who was sitting in Parliament on that day voted for passage of the Bill. Who were they? The Hon Frederick Wade, Dame Lois Browne-Evans, Dame Jennifer Smith, the Hon Alex Scott, and The Hon Ewart Brown. Each of these distinguished leaders of the PLP went on to lead their Party. Dame Lois and Freddie Wade spoke out vociferously for the bill so to suggest that it was the UBP who passed it is ludicrous in the extreme.
It never ceases to amaze me that people such as Rolfe Commissioning can state that including “sexual orientation” in the Human Rights Act is contrary to the “core values” of the progressive Labour Party. Just who decides on these core values? I rather believe that the five former PLP leaders named above were acutely aware of the core values of their Party – and that equal rights for all was a key belief that they all shared.
The statement from “Time Shall Tell” is a complete falsehood which is easily disproved by examination of the true facts.
Bravo Mark. The hypocrisy of people using their personal religious beliefs to justify hatred towards others is pretty far away from what I understand are the teachings of Jesus Christ.
And the arguments for pedophilia and polygamy are just so, so painfully stupid it hurts. The slippery slope is inhabited by hate filled morons that’s for sure… Preventing two consenting adults from marrying one another because you’re afraid it might allow something NOBODY is advocating for is not a valid argument.
By that same logic people could justify preventing interracial couples from getting married because they’re afraid it will lead to people marrying their pets… is this kind of irrational fear of a hypothetical a good enough reason to prevent a beautiful reality?
With the exception that there is nothing in the Bible stating that interracial marriage is against God’s Word; the Bible is quite clear on homosexual relations. Oh I’m sure there is someone that will erroneously start talking about being ‘unequally yoked’…but those are the same people who copy and paste stuff they find on Wikipedia to try and support their argument.
The Bible does not condone discrimination; so the amendment passed was absolutely the right thing to do. However, same sex marriage is absolutely against God’s Word. Two different issues.
Women speaking in church is absolutely against God’s word too.
That’s right Sandy…keep banging that same drum on every article about the Bible. Perhaps if you keep erroneously referencing scripture out of context, someone might eventually listen to you. Bang on…bang on.
Timothy 2.12. I do not permit a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.
Out if context? Erroneous?
why don’t you enlighten us to that passage’s true meaning.
The entire Chapter 2 relates to conduct of men and women in worship. You cannot just ‘lift’ a single verse out of a chapter (no more so than lifting a single sentence out of a novel) and simply determine its meaning. Obviously it is too long to comment specifics here, but if you really are interested, there is an informed link below:
http://www.biblegateway.com/resources/commentaries/IVP-NT/1Tim/Men-Women-Worship
Agreed, Jokes for DAYS. You have to love Duane, Time Shall Tell, Timothy and the other ignorant, fear mongering people who love to employ the old and tired propaganda trick: trying to derail a specific argument into something that is totally unrelated. Next thing you know, they’ll also mindlessly bring up relationships and marriage between humans and animals or maybe even trash cans…lol.
Even the multitude of stories that do exist of gay and lesbian couples raising and nuturing well adjusted and successful children wouldn’t convince them of anything. The all or nothing mindset of “heterosexual couple = good” and “homosexual couple = bad” they have is just absolutely disgusting and misguided.
The hypocrisy of the OBA Mark Pettingill and folks that are drinking what he is also drinking. How can you condemn one group of people for what they believe, yet praise another. This bad and outright prejudice behaviours of the AG MARK, is unacceptable. He is acting no better than his followers, who seldom seem to evaluate any issue based upon facts and common sense. This man should not even wear such a title, for it does not behold him. It is a real disgrace to the OBA and people that voted for him. He is outright disrespectful and rude.
These reason actions and words are wrong, and he needs to retract his statements to bash one group of people against another. ALL people are entitled to hold certain positions, or views on any issue, All people should be respected for how they think. It looks like everyone in Bermuda should MOVE< after all we all share various views on issues. Mr Pettingill is a big joke to Bermuda, and it is getting even worst. What book does Mr.Pettingill swear on every time he walks into the courts? He does not even know that…it is the bible….this man is outright wrong and a prejudice OBA as the UBP is rearing their ugly heads once again…
Wow. Mark is truly showing his ignorance in the truest definition of ignorance. He, like many others, know absolutely nothing about the Bible and yet feel compelled to speak with ‘authority’ on it.
A couple of years ago Mark Pettingill was encouraging Bermudians to vote/join the BDA because all of the members/founders (he, Crockwell, Hunt and Fahy were all involved in mixed relationships, i.e., whites and non-whites. Now he is insulting every religious person on the planet. That man has to be smoking something!! And to think he is the Attorney General of Bermuda!! Shame, shame, shame!!
I guess that coming together of all the “religious” leaders in front of City Hall organised by Premier Cannonier was jut a photo-op.
Touché
some of the former plp government were homosexuals that didnt want to be outed.
Most (but not all) got outed at the ballot box.
ok… so what I am hearing/reading is basically that people have the right to do as they wish… so now lets speak about marijuana smoking… remember its my right to do as I wish.
Gays have unprotected sex which can lead to death eventually…. smoking marijuana has not killed ANYONE EVER. hmmm… lets do the math.
You want to be real and keep to the facts.. I have numerous facts about the benefits of marijuana.
Let get that on the books since it appears anything goes now a days.
Unbelievable… then an not so unbelievable.
Um… heterosexuals can have unprotected sex that has just as much of a chance to lead to death.
So under the PLP government Bermuda’s financial position significantly worsened, partly because of the economic downturn experienced worldwide and partly because of bad decision making. Now under the OBA government, the leader of the party has openly declared himself as a Christian, ie Bible believing Christian.. one of his key cabinet ministers has labelled the Bible as a book that is “full of great stuff” but also has “some real scary crazy stuff”. A house divided cannot stand. We thought we were in a bad way before… that was nothing compared to where we will be heading with this type of mindset at the helm. I really like the Attorney General, so this is not personal… but Lord have mercy.
the former government was the gayest Bermudas history!
I think mark’s comments are disgusting and insulting! The oba will not have my vote in the next election!!!
Tell the truth Mark!!!!
You Christians are the meanest bunch of b*******8 on earth….
there are f..s in high places eh Pettingill. You can believe there will be more to come. Take a look around the globe and be stunned at what has been deemed legal.
We live in an anything goes world and it all starts with the homos getting their way.
way way more to come
What is your position regarding the PLP members who voted for the amendment?
@Yes- the former government weren’t trying to get married.
So Mark thinks the bible creates part of the phobia. A persistent, irrational fear of a specific object, activity, or situation that leads to a compelling desire to avoid it. No sir the bible has not compelled me to fear homosexuals or their activity. The bible has stated that it is an abominable act; that and the grieving of the spirit. These are the only 2 acts the bible states as an abomination. So why should anyone expect a follow of Christ to take it lightly. This is something that will NEVER be ok.
And everyone has to follow your bible… why?
Rational people will listen to rational arguements. You cannot use religion to support a rational arguement.
Reading a lot of these comments indicate that people within the church have taken great offense to this legislation. In one sense, I do understand their point to a certain degree but I’d like to touch on a few things. I am a believer of Christ and I know he is real.
Let me ask you people, do you realize that interracial couples were previously considered a sin? The law had been amended to displace discrimination in that aspect. Look around you people, interracial is a common way of life as it should be. Hence the reason Bermuda is multi-culture.
Now, I don’t agree with the homosexual lifestyle, but I also don’t discriminate against them either. They are people just like you and I, and they deserve to be treated equally. That’s just a humanitarian outlook. What if it’s your son or daughter, would you like for them to be mistreated or discriminated against? Put yourself in their shoes, how would you want to be treated?
As the church, God says to love one another and pray for those that fail to follow his doctrine. Regardless of the fact, these people are our brothers and sisters and we are in no position to cast judgement upon them. There is only one that judges us, and that is the Almighty himself. I can assure you that God will judge you on the same degree as you’ve judge others. Sin is sin, its no different then you cursing someone out. Also, if you aren’t able to forgive others, then I ask you, why would God want to forgive you.
(Remember the Lords Prayer: Forgive us for our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us). So please people, leave the judgement to our creator and be accountable for your own actions when you go before HIM.
Now, if the church is so passionate about social issues, why haven’t they gone out and addressed the problems such as gang violence. That’s a real problem we face. Why is there still poverty? The purpose of tiding is to build the temple of God (The Church). Once the church is built, they are to use their tidings to help the poor and go out and spread good news. There are many churches that are built around here but there’s still poverty. People on the street don’t hear about the good news. Why do you preach to a congregation that have an idea of spiritual inclination but yet keep it behind 4 walls, but there are people out here that don’t know anything about the good news from God. Why don’t you take your congregation to the streets and set up church in these broken neighborhoods? Areas were God’s word is needed more then ever. But yet, you would take a stand on trying to control and cast judgement on someone else lifestyle. My opinion to the church: Do some self-reflecting and get out there and spread Gods word. Not only when it’s convenient for yourself. We wouldn’t have the problems we have if you were doing your job!!
Ps. Donate your pretty suites to the less fortunate and start doing Gods work for real. Then you’ll see positive change.
This was on the money. Totally agree.
Wow! The comments under here are sickening..I can guarantee majority of them are from the “older generation”. Only because they love that bible don’t they. A book that is filled with the working of our Lord written by people who didn’t even physically know him!!! It was published much later after his death! By us! Man! And we’ve screwed everything up already so who’s to say this book is even %100 true! I will say this..I am a God fearing man but I believe this isn’t what God wanted. Its so contradictory for one to state that we have been blessed with free will then to throw a big list of “rules” at me. You people are pathetic..to say “God is Love” and to continue to fight, put down, and hate eachother for these stupid reasons. I was born in ’89 and I know my generation has had our issues but our hearts are in the right place..and one day..I hope everyone will understand what the majority of us do..that we are to be one..I can only speak for myself..but I can promise you..I will not add to this ignorance I continuously read about. Remember God also says “Do not call what i have made clean unclean.” So with raised hands let’s see all the “perfect ones”..oh?…no hands? I thought so
Equality and Love for all
Shows you know nothing about the bible… What air do you breath? Then again, there is such a thing as the living dead…
I said when it was published….Use your brain..well then again i can’t expect much from a hypocrite. were you not paying attention when i was doing a hand count of all the perfect Christians? go on then…and re read it and follow the scriptures that you want to..have a nice day
Um. No, there isn’t.
The living dead is a fictitious thing, just like fairies and unicorns.
Wow.
The Bible condones slavery, discrimination against women, capital punishment. It also has one line about not lying with a man (or perhaps lying to a man who knows). Anyway, it is clearly a bunch of BS and should not be used in our lawmaking any more than a book on Peter Pan should. Fictitious characters such as Santa, Easter Bunny and God have their place – but please don’t take them seriously.
always suspicious of people who quote chapter and verse from the bible to suit their needs….kind of like the lunatic sect that handles snakes because of reference from the bible…..
Wow! Are people confused and have a problem with describing why they feel what they feel concerning homosexuality?
Two of my best friends are or were homosexuals; yes I do consider myself a Christian. We got along fine unfortunately one has passed away through HiV complications, why did we get along? They understood that I respected them they also respected the fact that I did not agree with their life style, I considered it, the homosexual acts as being unnatural, I challenge anyone to say different and explain to me why it is not. To understand God you have to understand nature, everything on this earth is put here for a purpose to make life sustain life etc. I understand why a landlord would not want to allow homosexuals to rent their apt the same as not to smokers or people who have pets or drug addicts etc, even my two friends would understand and accept it. The Bible say to hate the sin love the sinner. I believe there are some people who love, not only Christians, that fall into this category. But there are hypocrites on both sides.
What does the bible mean when it says homosexuality is an abomination? Is it the act or the person?
The issue with homosexual marriages everyone has their reasons as to why they agree or disagree, respect them even if you don’t agree with their reasoning.
Even some homosexuals don’t agree with same sex marriage.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22758434
being gay is not normal ….doookie d..k…is not normal …..yuck…you should not have **** on the front of your draws …
define normal
Many of you guys are quoting from the bible as if to change peoples minds. Do you not realize that you’re following a book that’s how old? I couldn’t even tell you mainly because i could care less. As an agnostic there is no possible way that i can know what is truly out there whether or not we were created by a “god” or even Aliens there is no possible way to know and don’t say “well my bible says god is real so i’m gonna degrade others”. Does it truly matter that someones sexual orientation is different from you? We’re all born the same, get over yourselves and stopping tossing around a book that’s been changed possibly hundreds of times (for money). I’m 19 years old and i’m more accepting and open minded than all of you bigots. Love is love that’s all I gotta let people live and stop judging them because you don’t like them. There are homosexual religious followers all over the world, they read the book like you but i guess since you don’t love your own sex you’re going to heaven and they’re not. Until you know 100% of everything there is to know about life then talk to me.
*at one point for money
“I’m 19 years old and i’m more accepting and open minded than all of you bigots.”
If you were truly accepting and open-minded, then you would not label people of any religious affiliation as bigots simply because they do not agree with your take on things.
Actually bigotry disguised as religion is still bigotry.
The white supremacist christian identity movement consider themselves to be a religion. Does that mean they should get a free pass on their racist antisemitic anti black views just because it’s their religion?
Again, it’s not people’s “take on things”, it’s the fact that they’re forcing other people to abide by the rules of their religion.
Doing this, discriminating against people based on what your religion says, calling them “unnatural”, treating them as less than equal? That IS bigotry. Plain and simple.
well young sir/lady,
i would take a further look into what the bible says, and some of the activities that the church does before passing such an assumption on religion. Just because we cant understand something or it doesnt seem logical, doesnt mean it shoudl be thrown out.
How old do you think the mathematical equations your learning or the language that you are speaking is?
The bible is one of the oldest books in existense, so there must be something of meaning to it….or maybe you dont agree. Which is entirely up to you.
Dont get caught up in the confusion that has succumbed the world due to the “freedom” of thoughts and rights.
There was a time when a school would have prayer in assembly and classrooms at the start of the day, this is thrown out now, and youths are more careless and violent than ever….go figure…
If the gays are so proud to be gay then walk around Bermuda holding hands. Kiss each other in public. Go in the May 24th Parade.
With all this balls on balls fighting none of you want to be seen in public doing this closet behavior, because in the end no matter what you’re afraid. You all want to talk the talk on a blog site, but know one wants to put it in the public eye. The only gay that has walk the walk was Sible and I salute him for that. The rest of you are a bunch of cowards in the closet.
Yes, there are those who are cowards in the closet, and what you read on these boards are a shining example of why they’re in the closet.
However, I suggest that you open your eyes when you’re out and about, because I’m pretty certain that you’re missing one heck of a lot of things that are going on around you.
People of Bermuda:
Focus on just a few things, please:
Our Elected Attorney General, who is a Buddist, stood in the House of Assembly on Friday and said “So all the ones that feel that strongly about this on some religious basis that are entirely homophobic, please get up and leave and go somewhere else.”
Forget the arguments about same-sex marriage, the amendment to the Human Rights Act, the church, religion, all that – - – THOSE THINGS DO NOT MATTER IN THIS! WE HAD AN ELECTED OFFICIAL OF THE GOVERNMENT TELL THE PEOPLE OF BERMUDA THAT IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE AS “WE DO”, YOU SHOULD LEAVE THE COUNTRY!
That is the height of disrespect and it should not be tolerated – - – I am calling on the Hon. Premier to sort out the AG and restore faith in the ability of the Government and its Ministers – - this is not a “slip” or “mistake” – - this is wrong – no way around it!
And it should not stand!
Yng Black Mind
(those who know understand)
I back your comment 100%.
Imagine that this amendment was to prevent discrimination against black people. Would you have any problem if he told people who wanted to discriminate against black people based on religious mandate to leave the island.
Bigotry disguised as religion is still bigotry, why should it get a free pass because it’s your religion.
@Some guy:
This has nothing to do with religion – - this has to do with one man’s hateful, disrepectful comments which were expressed in the House of Parliament – -plain and simple.
It is obvious to me that you didn’t read my post – - as I stated that clearly above.
Yng Black Mind
People who use religion to justify their narrow minded views deserve no respect.
You wouldn’t suggest that racists deserve respect, why should homophobes be any different.
I am shocked and disgusted at Mark Pettingill comments about the church. It was his Leader that asked for the church leaders to pray for Bermuda, and now he has his Minister and Attorney General speaking like this. I wonder if the Premier supports Marks comments if he does not than he should remove him from office. I voted for the OBA but if this is where they want to take my country than they will not get it next time.
Question: why do people quote the old testament as truth when it comes to the issue of homosexuality but dismiss it when it comes to things such as eating shellfish, shaving, etc, etc.?
I know. They select the bits they want to quote and believe very carefully. One minute they tell you “It was Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve” (a joke I think), and the next minute they tell you they don’t believe in the Old Testament. Then a few minutes later they will tell you God created everything, it says so in Genesis.
I’m not a minister or priest, but I’ll try to answer your question as best as I can. For a believer, the Old Testament IS truth…and so is the New Testament. The Old Testament seeks to explain the origins and history of the world and the Judeo-Christian faith, while the New Testament sets out the doctrine and teachings of Christianity.
The Old Testament focuses mainly on the Jewish faith, from which Christianity is derived. It also outlines many of the rules and laws that were set down by the Jewish culture, in the book of Leviticus. I am not Jewish myself, so I cannot speak expertly on the Jewish faith, nor can I describe all of their current practices. But obviously, there are Jewish people who do adhere to strict dietary codes, and may not partake in the eating of shellfish, or shaving, etc.
However, Christians do not adhere to the laws of Leviticus, as we believe that the birth of Christ ushered in a new era, in which God entered into a new covenant with us, in which ritual sacrifices, dietary restrictions, etc became unnecessary.
For the record, the New Testament does speak to the issue of homosexuality. It is not merely covered in the Old Testament, nor is it merely Old Testament law.
I hope this helps.
Why do we have to follow ANY of the laws in the Bible?
The truth is that there is a God and Creator and He does have an opinion on this topic and His opinion is this. He sent his only begotten Son to die for our sins so we can be free from sin and live the life that He intended for us to begin with. His sacrifice is so we no longer have to be slaves to our sin or impulses, however there are those who want to reject God and His sacrifice for us. they are enjoying thier sin and have no desire to seek after God and His holiness but please know you do have a right to choose sin over Christ but you do not have a right to choose the consiquence of your choice. The wages of sin is and will always be death but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord ( which means owner).
At the end of it all it is God who is in control not us, We all must choose.
The truth?? How do you know this to be the case?
That is an opinion, not an irrefutable fact.
Which simply supports equal rights for all, allow everyone to make their own free choice.
God will judge in the end.
Who has the full authority on whether being homosexual is a choice or not…
Just answer us this: when did you choose to be straight? what factors led to your decision?
Whether it’s a choice or not is a moot point.
Religion is a choice and it’s protected, so, even if orientation WAS a choice (it’s not), that wouldn’t preclude it from being protected.
If I am not mistaken the Premire call the country to prayer in April and this is what we got. There is no respect coming from Mr Pettingill and the like for the Holy Word of God is simply apolling.
Mr Pettingill if you are not a believer you must always respect others. I am very disappointed that I even considered voting OBM in December, glad I didn’t.
You all fooled so many people last year. I see your true colours and they are not pretty.
I like the Premier call you to repent.
Numbers 6:3
He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, and shall drink no vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink, neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes, nor eat moist grapes, or dried.
No more grapes for me the Bible said so….and those that don’t agree leave Bermuda… Oops is that what the AG said…
mmmm drinking vinegar
All you lot are living in the past. Gay people are just gay. it is what it is. Why should they not be allowed to marry? because a book told us so? That Book aslo says to stone women who speak up. Women like Laverne would be stoned publicy. you bible thumpers take what you want when you want from the bible. Let these people have their rights. let them marry. im straight. i dont care if they get married. what difference or negatvie impact does it have on my life? Most of you “church goers’ only go as a fashion show or think it will make you feel better about last nights decisions so you can continue on “sinning” for another week then come sunday afternoon your sins are washed away, magically by our imaginary friend who lives in the sky. While i do not believe i do respect people’s choices to believe. so have some respect for gays and let them go about their business. you do your thing and they can do theirs.
While i think this may not have been a smart move for Mark, He is expressing his opinion. as are all of you. I 100% believe that church and politics need to stay well clear of eachother in order for our country to move forward. Let Gays get married.
Agree with you 99%. Stoning is a bit unnecessary if you ask me lol.
the point is church laws are a choice, its your choice if you want to join a church, praise God and be faithful to what God wants you to do. similar to how if you love your wife you will be faithful to her.
“political” laws or whatever you call them are enforced, whether you like it or not….and come with immediate consequence upon breaking them.
If a child molester who went to jail for 5 years gets out and lands a job cutting trees at the nursery that your kid goes to,or moved next door to you and always seems to be looking over the fence watching your daughter play, would you have any concern?
How about if homosexual boys became a majority in the school that you send your son, and every day they are trying to convince him on the playground that having sex with a man is the “in” thing to do? would you still be so carefree?
And on that same note, while you would be there calling 911 and your local MP concerning such a travesty in your neighbourhood, the church will be the sanctuary that will accept him and be praying for him to change his ways and do “right”….with all his sinfulness abound.
I agree that there are some outright “gays” from birth. There are also Murderers, Kleptomaniacs and sex addicts from birth….Does that mean its cool?
Also, most individuals become products of their environment and company they are surrounded by…
Did your mom ever tell you “show me your company and I will tell you who you are?”. I hung around Computer nerds in school, Now Im an IT professional…
I guess its your given right and freedom to “judge” what “most” churchgoers are since bargoers and partiers and soforth are doing so much more in trying to better the society right? While we are at it why dont we lower the age of drinking alcohol and allow smoking on planes and offices and everywhere again. why should we care?
In fact why get married? what are funerals for? Just throw the dead in a pit and light em up with some gas huh….
By the way there is a forum on June 24th on the topic of teen HIV/AIDS.
Question. is the “fashion show” church most preeminent group to be catching and spreading such diseases? and should they be the majority attending?
Please forgive me and excuse my sarcasm and cynicism. it is just to get the point across of how and why there were commandments given to us by God in the first place….
im sure you appreciate the one that we should “love thy neighbour”.
how about when the book says that “the body is a temple”. Is the stoning part the only thing you got out of your sporadic reading? It really explains it all…. down to the same attitudes that are being displayed now, since these are the “end of days” that we are living in. I still find it facscinating how correct and prophetic the Bible is… we should have a study some time
when you get a chance, google 2 Timothy, verse 3
God Bless
Mr. Mark Pettingill EGO is so big it will eventually explode and fall into a million pieces. He will fall on his own sword in good time. Mr. Pettingill and Fahy, are walking this wild ego side of things, and in all good time, it will go full circle and end. He will not know what happen in the end, he will be left dumb-founded and lost. This man continues to act in a way that he believes he is above the law. He had broken every rule and made so many blunders within the OBA it is a real joke. How and why do the OBA keep such a Ego floating around, will be their on doing, and so will their golden boy Fahy. God is watching…and he moves in very mysterious ways…. keep looking….
OURRAGEOUS WORDS BY MR PETTINGILL OBA….it is getting worst, this party is falling down…big time……
Mr. Pettingill telling folks to leave if they do not like it, does this also include all the folks that work in IB? After all you talk about being Welcoming, yet you just promoted that folks that do not think or walk as you do, should leave Bermuda. Mr. Pettingill is a huge insult to Bermuda, and needs to put a pin in his head to burst his EGO that is the size of a football. He is the worst AG Bermuda has every had, and seems to lack real knowledge about the law in Bermuda and UK. He needs to held accountable for his remarks and change his prejudices ways. He sounds like a real Prejudice man with no common sense. He is beyond being a good individual. This is an outrage by someone so disrespectful to all people that live in Bermuda. Pettingill and Fahy needs to go clean up thier own house, that is in so much disarray.
I’m gonna ask this here, as no one seems to have an answer elsewhere.
Does anyone have a good reason to oppose this amendment – or marriage equality – that doesn’t involve other people following the rules of your religion or a personal belief that “it’s yucky”?
“It’s unnatural” isn’t an argument, as it’s been debunked. It happens all through nature.
“Gays can’t have babies together” isn’t an argument, as reproduction isn’t a stipulation for… well… anything.
Anyone have a REAL reason?
Mike:
I can agree that the reasons listed in your popst are NOT viable to oppose the amendment.
Their real reason will always be cased in fear – - we can agree on that.
What I don’t hear you saying is that the AG was wrong for his ignorant comments regarding religion and religious beliefs.
I am pro-amendment, however, I oppose same sex marriage (due to those “fear” beliefs) – - BUT, I don’t tell a group or section of my community that if they don’t think or believe as I do, THEY SHOULD LEAVE THE COUNTRY?!!!
Can you defend that?
Yng Black Mind
Oh, HECK no.
I didn’t think it needed to be said that his statements were idiotic and poorly thought out.
However, calling them hateful, as some have, after some of the disgusting things said on the other side, is a little hypocritical and out of line.
For me, the problem with “The Church” isn’t the beliefs, it’s the imposition of those beliefs on others, and all that entails.
That’s why I think that attacking someone’s beliefs is sinking to their level.
Rising above hate and fear is the only way to find togetherness.
Well said Mike!
I can agree that both sides are getting into the mud on this one – - but you yourself on Facebook have called those who oppose the amendment “dumb” and “idiotic” – - we all need a “timeout” and relax – lol.
I think you might be mistaking me for someone else.
Hateful? Sure. Bigoted? Absolutely.
Dumb and idiotic? I don’t think I’ve said that.
This issue is not about Gay people, it is about:
1. Mr Pettingill appears to knocking religous groups by trying to dismiss Christians only, he has effectively dismissed all religious groups, including Muslims, Hindus, Rastafarians, Jehovahs Witnesses etc since all based their beliefs on historic writings. He is kicking various groups for how they think. This is not correct, everyone is entitled to their worldview on issues. We do not all have to share the same views or beliefs
2. Further he tells these groups to LEAVE BERMUDA if they do not think or walk as he does. This is an outrage, and extremely disrespectful. He is allowing his EGO once again to get in his way. This man is really sinking Bermuda to a low level of debate and lacks the qualities of a good AG.
Jews will not tolerate this action and words by such a person from anywhere. Any other country in the world would have made Mr Pettingill held to account on such Words.
This sleeping Bermuda, allows him to get off easy, this would not be tolerated in any other country in the world. This so called AG is stepping over his EGO and it will bust sooner rather than later…OBA this is not a good thing and it looks more and more like the UBP are rearing their ugly heads within the OBA again…NO CHANGE
For Real.
You are a fool. but i respect your right to be a fool. The majority of little boys being homosexual? Since when did we come into a Gay apocolypse? If this and If that. and you talk about what are bar goers doing? Sunday, take a look around your church. thats what the bar goers are doing then. bunch of church heathens. not everyone. but a Hell of a lot. So many people here are hypocritical. company you keep huh? i hung around a bunch of weed smokers who did a lot of no good. i dont smoke weed now and i obey the law aside from the occasional speeding ticket. you all need to come up with why gays shouldnt marry and not quote the fairy tale book. i mean, if your friend in the sky made all man in his image…..is he gay? is sky man gay? or is he playing an evil trick on his little lambs to test their faith?
I don’t know what you all are going on about… most of your man are round here sucking **** anyway! Get a clue & stop living in lala land lol
Can Mike Hind highlight the positives in homosexual sex and marriage for me and demonstrate how this will create a better society for us all in Bermuda?
Absolutely!
I hope you’ll return the favour and answer my question, too…
The positives of homosexual sex are the same as they are for heterosexual sex. Two people that are attracted to each other enjoying themselves. How is it different? Because it’s not for procreation? I certainly hope you argue for outlawing prophylactics and birth control of all types, as well as a ban on sterile people having sex, if this is the case.
And marriage equality will create a better society in Bermuda because there will be one less subsection of our community being discriminated against. Isn’t that better? There will be an entire group of people that are allowed the same rights and privileges the rest of us have that they don’t currently enjoy.
Now, I get to ask one:
Besides my first question (which you seem to be avoiding. Why is that?) about a REAL reason for opposing this – that doesn’t involve other people following your religion’s rules, “It’s yucky and I don’t like it”, misinformation or sophistry (i.e. “What if everyone was gay?” silliness), I have to ask:
How is this amendment and/or marriage equality going to harm Bermuda in any way?
Again, without other people following your religion’s rules, “It’s yucky and I don’t like it”, misinformation or sophistry.
Can you answer that, please, “Ya got me Rollin……NOT”
I like the way you tried to align gay sex as the same as heterosex when it is clearly not. Then you so nicely slip in the caveat about sterile people,birth control and prophylactics if gay sex and marriage is not viewed as natural. Feeble attempt to say the least.
You know what is troubling though. The proponents for this gay union (marriage) will then argue that they should be able to adopt and raise children. You want to raise the seed of heterosexual / religious bigots. This is what we all have been called recently. We’ve all been thrown in one basket. If gay unions are so natural , which is what you are shoving down our collective throats why not just procreate and produce your own children? While you are figuring that one out, we will look into banning condoms, sterile people and birth control and ensure the end of mankind. How’s that ?
How is it different?
That wasn’t a caveat, it was a question, with an explanation for why it was asked.
I note that you don’t actually address my point. YOU asked for the positives of homosexual sex and I gave one. YOU asked for the positives of marriage equality. I gave some.
You haven’t addressed ANY of the points I made.
What you DID do, is move the goalposts to adoption, ignoring your original points. Interesting, that.
You also set up a lovely strawman, claiming that there is a view that heterosexual=religious bigot, which is complete nonsense. There are plenty of heterosexuals that have no problem with marriage equality. It’s not ‘cuz you’re straight that folks have a problem with you, it’s because you’re trying to force other people to live by the rules of your religion. Your sexual orientation doesn’t make you a bigot, your claims that others’ are unnatural, defense of discrimination and sinister and insidious campaign of misinformation and hate does.
Procreation as a stipulation for marriage has been debunked, yet you still cling to it. It’s not a prerequisite.
What IS unnatural (in that it is a man-made construct) is marriage.
As for your last question: “How’s that ?”
“That” (meaning your point) is nonsense.
Now… how about giving a GOOD reason to oppose this that doesn’t involve forcing other people to follow your religion’s rules, or completely false claims?
Any chance of that?
STILL nothing.
I wonder why?
Can’t come up with an answer?
Interesting. Still no answer from “YGMR…..N”.
Courage of convictions seem to be missing.
Sorry for my delay. Had to get some shut eye.
And STILL no answer to my original question…
Maybe you need to answer your own question as no as answer is good enough for you. Agree to strongly disagree and move on.
That’s nonsense. You haven’t even attempted to answer.
Interesting. Why is that?
Everything Mark Pettingill said was absolutely correct and it’s about time people stopped reading fairy stories and faced up to facts.
the bottom line is..Gay people exist whether you want them to or not…soooo instead of these “Christians” playing like they are God why don’t you just live with it. Think about it…if God himself was against Homosexuality do you think it would even exist? he is for love! and what makes me laugh is that when this view is brought up they wana say that it’s “from the devil” i understand that he was once an angel but since when was an angel more powerful than God himself? only when idiots like the majority believe that God doesn’t have control of the situation. it you people are pathetic hypocrites…its a shame that most of you are too old to do something about it now.
I am so sad that people in this community are without any morals or spiritual obligation, this is why we are falling. The further we get from the Bible and God the harder we are going to fall. The devil is speaking through people like Mr. Pettingill he wants this island to be corrupt and immoral like the rest of the world.
Why can’t we stand apart from Western culture and stand up as a community and KEEP OUR SPIRITUAL GROUNDING why should we have to follow other countries paganistic values. Only God can save this island and we have leaders acting as the devils puppets. I am so terrified for what we will become.
You haven’t even been in power for a year and you’re already trying to demoralize and demonize this island. Law and religion should come hand in hand! God wrote the law for us to maintain structure and values WHO ARE YOU TO KNOW MORE ABOUT WHAT WE NEED BETTER THAN OUR OWN CREATOR!
Please Lord hear my prayer for this country allow us to maintain our spiritual grounding and to be led by your plan and design and not by demons looking to destroy us Amen.
If Mark P could say these things in public just immagine what they say behind closed doors when discussing the plan for us “koolaid drinkers”
Yesterday was Sabbath and today we had Sunday school.Many blacks are sitting up in these institutions subjecting themselves to mental genocide and oppression. Monday morning your slave masters will be abusing you again at the work place.
A slave master is a slave master, regardless if he/she is controllining you in their best interest or in the interest of harm.