Rainbow Alliance: ‘We Await Mr Smith’s Apology’
The Rainbow Alliance of Bermuda condemned comments made by Deputy Mayor Donal Smith, calling them “an inappropriate way for an elected official to speak about anyone.”
According to a newspaper report, Deputy Mayor Smith grouped gays with “freaks”, claimed anyone who supports same sex marriage is “condemned” and said international business helped destroy Bermuda’s social fabric by making the Island more materialistic.
A Rainbow Alliance spokesperson said, “The comments Deputy Mayor of Hamilton, Donal Smith, made on the ISSUES program regarding homosexuality were riddled with offensive and derogatory language towards members of the LGBTQ community and their allies.
“Moreover, these comments showed a marked ignorance of LGBTQ issues and an overarching tone of homophobia. Comments labeling a group of humans as “freaks” display a strong antipathy towards those he summarily dismisses as unworthy of the protection of the law and are founded on ignorance: this is homophobia.
“The Rainbow Alliance of Bermuda remain proponents of an individual’s rights to free speech. You can have strongly-held religious or moral viewpoints without resorting to offensive and hurtful attacks on an entire community. This is an inappropriate way for an elected official to speak about anyone, and we await Mr. Smith’s apology.”
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- Donal Smith: “I Would Like To Offer My Apology” | Bernews.com | September 18, 2013
tit for tat is the only thing these bigots understand..henceforth we should be insulting churches and their members. I mean in all fairness they base all their beliefs on a horrid piece of fiction and call us(non believers) crazy. They are the ones who are freaks consuming what they believe to be the body of a dead man and his blood.
On another note..relating to the hate speech…dogs and other animals in the animal kingdom do commit ‘homosexual’ acts..has this man never seen a male dog humped by another male dog to assert dominance?
Stooping to their level and promoting hate based on religious beliefs – or lack thereof – is not the way forward.
I agree, to a point. After to much of this hate mongering it is only human to want to rebuff.
Then rebuff by behaving in a way that you’d expect them to behave. With reason, logic, intelligence and tolerance.
Acting how they do, with ignorance and intolerance, only allows them to say “look how intolerant they are”.
Rise above their hate.
Too late Mike that train has already left the station. This is all these blogs have become, a forum to blast opinions. Rarely ever about issues.
Yep. And folks like you are trying OH, so hard to make sure they’ll stay that way.
Mike, something you should be aware of. The vast majority of homophobes are repressing their own feelings and hiding their desires from everyone including themselves.
If you take that into account many of the comments we see are quite understandable.
Do you have evidence of that?
I’m going to have to ask you to back that up with proof, please.
Try
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/29/opinion/sunday/homophobic-maybe-youre-gay.html?_r=0
or try this
http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/878915/are_homophobes_just_repressing_their_homosexual_desires_new_study_says_yes
BTW, shouldn’t take more than a few minutes on Google to find any number of other article, some academic, some not.
That’s evidence that it SOMETIMES happens and CAN be a factor.
It is NOT evidence that “The vast majority of homophobes are repressing their own feelings and hiding their desires from everyone including themselves.”
Nowhere in those links, nor anywhere I could find, does it say “the vast majority”…
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8772014
My problem is with the phrase “The vast majority”…
Here here!
Why are the members of the lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and Queer (LGBTQ)waiting for an apology if they remain proponents of an individual’s rights to free speech?
Mr. Smith didn’t invent them words, he only put them together in a speech to make a point nor did he ever call anyones name. Who the cap fits, wear it…
Why do homosexual go into panic mode when someone speaks out against their lifestyle and call those that do homophobic? Being a LGBTQ was once considered a mental disorder, but now its considered a lifestyle that some enjoy. I personally feel it is a mental disorder and call me homophobic or any other names you have, its just plain sick. Heck, even dogs know the difference between their gender…
Wow. After ALL of this, you STILL are going to make the “even dogs know”?
Ignorance and hate. It’s amazing how they can spur people to these levels of rationalization.
Ya Mike, it is what it is…
Please read the thread to see JUST how wrong you are.
you cant even troll properly… pitiful attempt!
For the same reason Black people go into panic mode when someone makes derogatory and hateful comments about the Black community and are then labeled racist. Hate speech is hate speech and should never be tolerated.
they said the same thing the man that was telling them about the flood that was coming and WILL I guess your parents did not send you to sunday school make no mistake god has a plan for every one
Not all of us believe in your bible.
And none of us have to follow the rules of that bible.
I’m not trying to get on either side of this debate but I’d just like to point out that your statement that, “none of us have to follow the rules of that bible” is not exactly true here in Bermuda. Much of Bermuda’s laws are old ones decided on as a reflection of religious belief. Some I agree must be such as not murdering or stealing but there are others that dictate the legality of human personal preference to do things that may cause harm to ourselves but no harm to others. I guess the bright side of it all is that it’s majority Christian here & not Islamic because then our prisons would be filled with pork eaters & tank top wearers. As long as religion plays a part in the laws of Bermuda we will never move forward as a modern democracy.
Being informed by the bible doesn’t make the laws biblical.
It just doesn’t.
Any more than biblical laws being informed by necessities of the day make them secular.
Correlation doesn’t equal causation.
The law of the land, even ones that coincide with biblical laws, are just that. The law of the land.
(Oh, and if the laws were truly Christian, following all Levitical strictures and rules in the bible, the same thing would happen as with an Islamic one. Same root.)
If you believe that correlation of biblical & national law has nothing to do with causation then please explain what you believe is the true causation that brought about laws against gay marriage, gambling & sale of alcohol on sundays in Bermuda.
Also Christian law may purport to be the same as Levitical law but in reality are quite different & even certain denominations laws differ greatly. Christians follow new testament laws handed down by Jesus while Levitical law fellowed by Jews & Islamics is handed down by Moses. Levitical law says, “an eye or an eye” Christian law says, “turn to the other cheek” Levitical law says “pork is unclean & if you eat it you will be unclean” Christian law says, “its not what you put in your body that makes you unclean but what comes out that does“ Then there are Christian denominations that totally disregard both old & new testament & pray to inanimate objects & have their priest remain unmarried even though both sides of the book forbid this. Christianity as a religious institution is a massive hypocrisy that has shaped much of the laws of modern society.
I think we may have the same viewpoint, but are looking at it from different perspectives.
This could be so. Debates on religious subjects could go all sorts of ways since religion can be so subjectively translated. My main point which I’m certain you got was that in Bermuda religious beliefs are brought far too much into political debates to allow for logical conclusions.
IMHO, most church-going Christians have a very shallow understanding of what Jesus had to say. Religious leaders tend to keep their flock in ignorance so they can continue to control them. That’s why I have no time for religion. I do not need a broker (minister, priest) to commune with the Higher Forces. As a spiritual person I have studied all religions including the gnostic gospels, which I feel may be closer to the truth.
Unfortunately there are very few spiriual people in Bermuda, that’s why there is so much conflict here, IMHO.
There are those from the rainbow alliance and others who think like them that have bashed the church for their beliefs, so to all those that think Mr. smith should apologize, I say you are the bigger damn fool.
If a homosexual or lesbian believes they have the right to be the way they are regardless of what people think, then they are within their right to be committed to their belief system, but they should not expect anyone else whose belief system is different from theirs to back down because we offended them based on our biblical belief system.
I am a Christian and do not share the views of many Muslims but you don’t see the Muslim community jumping up and down demanding a apology because the Christians don’t agree with their beliefs. the same can be said about those that are Christian, where the Adventist don’t share the same belief as the Sunday worshipper, do you see these two beliefs systems demanding a apology from each other because their views are different, No.
So to the homosexual community you are just as a bigot for expecting us to except your filth, That is putting it mildly.
So to be frank I would say directly to the deputy Mayor Mr. Donal Smith, that in my opinion you would be a damn fool to apologize for your comment, although it may not be a bad idea to apologize for the way that it may have been said and I say that tongue and cheek because I did not hear the program and the way he said it.
Fact still remains that homosexuality is still wrong in the sight of God and man.
When did have we had a Muslim Elected City or Government Official telling us how to live our lives and condmening and insulting a portion of the population ? I must have missed it.
Well done. You missed the ENTIRE point.
Here’s how it REALLY is…
“If a religious person believes they have the right to be the way they are regardless of what people think, then they are within their right to be committed to their belief system, but they should not expect anyone else whose belief system is different from theirs to back down because we offended them based on our biblical belief system.”
Just because your belief system says that it’s wrong, no one else should HAVE to agree.
You can believe anything you want. You just can’t expect anyone else to follow the rules of your religion. As you said.
If Muslims demanded that bacon be banned in Bermuda because it is unclean and an affront to Allah, would you be defending them their right to try to ban pork products?
This is about freedom FROM your religion.
You say “So to the homosexual community you are just as a bigot for expecting us to except your filth, That is putting it mildly.”
I think you meant ACCEPT, but that’s pedantic.
Here’s the thing. No one is expecting that. It’d be nice, but no one is expecting you to do that.
All they want is for you to stop discriminating against them, based on your own personal beliefs.
Apology for what? For speaking his mind and views? I’m awaiting your apology for not including incest on your platform. What justification do you have for condemning the practice of incest between two consenting adults?
This is asinine. You argument against homosexuality is a ‘where do we draw the line’ one? Just say the word and I’ll make you feel pretty stupid.
Because incest can harm a child resulting from the relationship.
It’s about consenting adults (the reason that Mr. Smith’s “having sex with animals” analogy doesn’t hold water, either).
And, on the legal side, siblings have a similar level of rights, as family members.
Speaking his mind and views is one thing. Calling fellow humans ‘freaks’ and comparing them to dogs and elephants is another thing altogether.
And what does incest have to do with anything?
I reckon incest has quite a lot to do with it in Bermuda where the gene pool has a no diving sign!!
A bit of reading for you (from Salon: http://www.salon.com/2013/03/10/same_sex_marriage_theyll_just_never_get_it/)
Whether people should have sex with close relatives (of either sex) is a distinct question from whether they should have sex with non-relatives of the same sex. Some might wonder whether the problem with incest is that it poses genetic risks for offspring, an objection that wouldn’t apply to gay incest. But the reason for the incest taboo is not merely that offspring might have birth defects (a problem which can be anticipated via genetic testing and which doesn’t apply past childbearing age). It is also that sex has a powerful effect on the dynamics of family life.
As Jonathan Rauch vividly puts it:
“Imagine being a 14-year-old girl and suspecting that your 16-year-old brother or 34-year-old father had ideas about courting you in a few years. Imagine being the 16-year-old boy and developing what you think is a crush on your younger sister and being able to fantasize and talk about marrying her someday. Imagine being the parent and telling your son he can marry his sister someday but that right now he needs to keep his hands off her … I cannot fathom all of the effects which the prospect of child-parent or sibling-sibling marriage might have on the dynamics of family life, but I can’t imagine the effects would be good, and I can’t imagine why anyone would want to try the experiment and see.”
These problems apply just as much to homosexual incest as to heterosexual incest.
There is another important disanalogy between the incest ban and the homosexuality ban. The incest ban means that every person is forbidden to have sex with some people — a relatively small group — whom he might find romantically appealing: his close relatives. By contrast, the homosexuality ban means that gay people are forbidden to have sex with anyone whom they might find romantically appealing. Unlike the incest ban, it reduces their pool of available romantic partners to zero — an infinitely greater restriction. One could make a similar point about the polygamy ban: In principle, any man who can fall in love with two women can fall in love with one, and any woman who can fall in love with an already married man can fall in love with an unmarried one.
Are you saying that if two people love each other it’s ok to ban them from being together? As if two people in love have the option of ‘choosing from a large selection’.No one said anything about homosexual incest. I said incest period. Who are you to decide what ‘options’ incestusexuals have? Who made you the one to decide that they can ‘choose outside of their family’? Can’t we equally say that homosexual men have the testosterone and equipment to be with women? Your argument is self defeating and falls flat on it’s face.
Are you seriously defending incest? SERIOUSLY?
And with such a weird and, like, completely false and confused argument?
Seriously. This is the weirdest argument against equal rights I’ve ever read.
Why do you view the fight FOR incest to be on equal footing as a fight AGAINST equal rights? Is it simply because you don’t view people who practice incest a equals deserving of rights? How is that different from straight people seeing gay rights as infringing upon the rights of others? This is incestophobia. All that garbage about harm caused is only due to social stigma. Once people grow up in a society that accepts incest there would be no social stigma and hurt caused by it. And trying to throw children into the mix is off topic. I’m talking about consenting adults here.
Now, you’re just being silly. To claim this isn’t about being anti-equal rights is completely disingenuous. Let’s have some honesty here. Come on.
The reason incest is different (and taboo) has been explained to you, but you’re refusing to see it.
It’s about consent.
You claim to be talking about consenting adults, but you refuse to take any offspring into account. (The difference between the “Man and Man can’t make baby” argument and this is that it’s completely the opposite. In this one, it’s the potential TO have a child that can cause the harm).
All this has been explained. Why are you ignoring it, if not to make an argument against equal rights?
You’re retarded. Not only is incest disgusting but it can result in genetic deformities. What’s the argument against same sex couples? Where’s the harm? Now if you want to go bang your niece, sister or cousin and think that’s the same as banging someone you are unrelated but of the same sex then go right ahead….who is stopping you? I guess that explains why you are so stupid though. You are the justification for condemning incest.
You are absolutely correct, It’s not the same. That’s my point. Is a man banging a man the same as a man banging a woman? NO! So since when does sameness become the criteria for equality? Need homosexuals be the same as straight people? I rest my case! And why have you reduced incest down to a sexual act? Why don’t you be fair and acknowledge the capacity for love and compassion between family members? Besides, did we not all come out from our parents ‘equipment’? Don’t we suckle on mommas breast? Ok so why are you disgusted now? And who said anything about having children? They may wish to adopt instead and they may even be a homosexual incest couple. They may use contraceptives and if there is a woman she may use the pill or tie her tubes. The man may tie his tubes too. They may be beyond the child bearing age and, to disqualify the need to mention all of that, there are many who have had very healthy children. Plus, how do you explain deformities from couples who are not related?? Should we ban all people whose offspring may ‘possibly’ have birth defects from being together legally? Then you have the social stigma of birth defects to deal with anyway. Who’s to say that a perfectly functioning person has a ‘birth defect’ because they don’t fit the cookie cut molds of our ‘perfect’ society? That’s more a reflection of our intolerance for difference rather than an actual health problem. Nowadays people have surgery to become what we called birth defects. Look up the people who cleft their lips to become a cat and lizard man. You have no basis and your argument is without sound foundation. You fail!
Ok… this is disgusting.
I know y’all’re against marriage equality and homosexuals and stuff, but where does the line get drawn? This is some sick, sick stuff in here. Like… scary levels of hate compounded by an ignorance and willful misunderstanding that… I don’t care how much you don’t like homosexuality… you should be speaking out against this.
Seriously… this person is defending incest. How do you guys not have a problem with this?
Milton, are you putting incest in the same catagory with homosexuality, you sick, sick man? Please, go see the nice nurse and she will give you your pills.
Not only putting it in the same category, he’s actually DEFENDING it!
No duh it’s not the same you simpleton, that was not the point. There is a very serious explanation for why incest is wrong and should not happen. You have no justification against homosexuality. None. I gave an example that you can’t argue against and so I’m still waiting on your argument. It has to be logical. You are really insane. Family members already have love and compassion among each-other. There is no need for sex and it can’t be compared to homosexuality. At all. I was bottle-fed, try again. Even so you are comparing nature, a mothers way of feeding their young, which is in no way sexual at all to sex between homosexuals? It’s not disgusting fool. You think because we come from their “equipment” that’s justification for sex between family members? WOW!! That is just…stupid. You defend incest but find homosexuality disgusting. You are the one who needs to be called a freak. Nothing you said made any sense. It’s not logical, it’s just psychotic ramblings. You fail at having any sort of argument. You are sick and need serious help.
Incest may result in physically, or mentally challenged children. A sin relationship (against God), results in a spiritually challenged child. Why start out wrong< then fight to be right? Why not start off right and live…….it is so much easier.
yeah, good luck with that.
He has no choice but to apologize
He NEEDS to resign!
Donal don’t apologize stand up for God!!!
shut up
Donal forget them. If the uBP/OBA flip flop party was serious about helping gays they would allow them to get married. Where did that idea travel? Down the toilet with the rest of the filth. 2 men getting it on with each other is crazy…….crazy. I couldn’t imagine what’s taking place in DE CLOSETS with these BIES!
the level of intelligence of our elected officials and the general population of bermudians really appals me.
this is the 21st century. you would think accepting gays and getting rid of god would be the smart thing to do.
if he can label gays as freaks, can i label those who believe in god as crazy, book worshiping, imaginary friend having, uneducated, ignorant sheep?
or will that be unnacceptable and inane to these christ loving bermudians.
lets get f—ing real, its 2013.
gays have feeling, god doesnt.
Quite!
You can always buy a plane ticket and remove your intelligent forward thinking self from all we Bermudians who lack intelligence. No one stopping you. YA YA
I love sarcastic attempts that fail because they are true.
Sounds like something the devil or his lackeys would say. The nasty lust of perverted people is really pulling us down. This nation is sinking cause we are allowing ourselves to move away from a holy God. He is the one keeping us together and standards high. Now all hell has broken loose and its a free for all. Soon everyone will be able to sex everyone is a huge nasty orgy if the special community is allowed to have their way and fulfill the gay mandate.
God is the one who gives us breath. The One that guides and protects us.
So now as a nation we prefer to please men and sinful lust more than we please a Holy God.
Be warned, you may just get what you ask for. Are you ready for it.
The bigotry is strong with this one.
And that’s exactly the problem that straight people have when it comes to dealing with LGBT folks. They reduce the entire complexity of a community down to a single sexual act. They always think about what takes place in ‘DE CLOSETS’ and cannot conceive of these individuals otherwise.
@ Rich: So you’re saying that LGBTQ just walk around smiling at each other? Why the heck you think they want to pass a law for marriage? Is it predicting that once homosexuality becomes more accepted (some of) these other things will become more accepted as well? Go figure…
What other things?
Which of these other things DOESN’T involve consenting adults?
What else is it about? The act or actions? Otherwise we would all be the same. Straight people, think straight. LGBT folks think special and require special treatment. Human rights are for everyone. They always have been. They haven’t changed, cause we are all human. The only problem arises when humans take on other attributes that require extra provisions to be made. The complaint comes when those with ‘extra attributes’ above society, now see themselves as different. They demand society now treats them the way how they feel.
A man can do what ever he chooses to another man in his home. They can go for broke. When he dies, he can leave everything to his guy. Why should special laws be made for the whole society, cause this man wants to love another man…..let them do what they want to do……..leave the rest of us alone. Stop trying to shove your special selfs down the worlds throat.
We get it…….you want to do you. Well do you and get on with you life. Leave me alone and i’ll get on with mine.
That is EXACTLY what they’re asking for.
They want to get on with their lives just like you and me. Problem is, they can’t.
In living memory, a man COULDN’T do whatever he chooses to another man in his home. It was illegal.
Until a few weeks ago, it was still legal to discriminate against them.
The problem isn’t them “trying to shove [their] special selfs down the worlds throat.”, it’s that others are shoving THEIR beliefs down… gah… can we not use this metaphor?
It’s the fact that other folks are using their beliefs to deny rights.
No one is asking for special laws or extra provisions. They’re actually asking for the special laws and provisions to be taken away – for example, the stipulation that LEGALLY, a marriage is between a man and a woman. I’m not talking about the religious side of it, I’m talking the LEGAL side.
The problem is: Because some folks think that other people should have to follow the rules of their religion, some people can’t get on with their lives.
Why would you want to imagine what goes on with two men if it repulses you so much anyway? Why only two men? Two women don’t bother you? Bermudian men sure do feel strongly about gay men but ignore gay women. You should read the studies on why you feel that way. I’m sure you try and imagine it quite a bit. lol.
Only because the gay man throws so much out of wack. He offsets a whole family which falls under his supervision. According to nature, he is the head of everything. So if he is confused and out of his place, he offsets more than an apple cart. He offsets a whole society.
He carries the human seed in his loins. If he plants them in the wrong ground, they will never grow and our future generations are wipped out before they start.
I’d like him to stay in office as long as possible. He can keep spouting this sh1t as much as he likes. It guarantees that lot of wankers will never get elected again.
HAHAHAHA! Good one!
Standing up for God is another way of excusing bad behaviour. Donal must go.
Believing in a magic fairy man in the sky is no excuse for such bigoted views.
The Bible is complete fiction, rubbish, condones slavery, stoning to death, killing of children.
What is wrong with you people who worship such disgusting filth?
Religion poisons everything. The Bible should be banned.
Sorry, but no.
Religion isn’t the problem. People forcing their religion onto others is the problem.
Suggesting people shouldn’t be allowed to believe whatever they want is just as bigoted as the bigots likening gay folks to folks who like to have sex with animals.
Ah, but then religion is the problem. Many of the ‘religious’ folk on this island just don’t have the mental capacity to understand that their view is just one among many.
Then, again, the problem is with the people that “just don’t have the mental capacity”, not with the religion.
As with everything, it’s the people that are the problem.
Okay true. I guess these ignorant ppl would just find another outlet for their insecurity and malicious judgement if they didn’t have religion.
mike hood, i actually agree with your post today..
,, 100%, Here someone is condemning Mr Smith for his comments, but attacking the people faith as disgusting filth..
Not my name.
Have an OUNCE of respect, would you?
yeah, i see my Mike Hind and not Mike Hood,, LOL, my apologies,, don’t know what the comment about respect is all about though??
It takes no effort to spell my name correctly.
Calling me Mike Hood is not only disrespectful, it’s silly.
Raise the level of discourse.
“excuse me while I throw up on your face”
Is that a biblical reaction! Lol!
LOL, you consider the Bible disgusting filth while defending homosexuality??? OK.
I reiterate, from the bible: “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again.”
So um yeah, I’ll choose homosexuality over the bible any day.
Please don’t quote a book of fiction as a source of knowledge. Your only falling into the some foolishness as the unevolved.
We might as well start quoting Grimm’s Fairy Tales for all the difference it makes.
Keep up man. I’m making a point about how nonsensical living by the bible is.
thats what i am thinking,, where is the rationale, or it is that statement based on emotion??..
I think you should just go back where you came from if you took the time to read the bible you would see that everything that is happening in the world today is in the bible check it out before you run your mouth
This is just gibberish. “Everything that is happening in the world today is in the bible”?
Ridiculous.
And irrelevant.
Not all of us believe in your bible and we’re allowed not to.
How about, Balloon jump from the edge of space, how about Landing on the moon, how about the ipad, how about Pittbulls being banned. Is this in the bible.
your words are not different from Mr Smith.
“You can have strongly-held religious or moral viewpoints without resorting to offensive and hurtful attacks on an entire community” I have to agree with that, although those “preachy” religions still do love to be judgemental are often hypocritical. The fact that is a lot of Bermudians feel the same way as Mayor Smith, gay rights okay, gay marriage oh no! I believe in legal marriage for gays, but a religious ceremony though? I suppose people should be allowed to exchange their vows any way they like I guess, but what good is any marriage these days? Good luck folks…
Who is asking for a religious ceremony (if it’s against their church’s wishes)?
And there are over a thousand different rights that married couples have that unmarried couples don’t.
That’s what good marriage is.
Agree.
Okay so can you educate me on what those rights are please?
A small sample…
Death: If a couple is not married and one partner dies, the other partner is not entitled to bereavement leave from work, to file wrongful death claims, to draw the Social Security of the deceased partner, or to automatically inherit a shared home, assets, or personal items in the absence of a will.
Debts: Unmarried partners do not generally have responsibility for each other’s debt.
Divorce: Unmarried couples do not have access to the courts, structure, or guidelines in times of break-up, including rules for how to handle shared property, child support, and alimony, or protecting the weaker party and kids.
Family leave: Unmarried couples are often not covered by laws and policies that permit people to take medical leave to care for a sick spouse or for the kids.
Health: Unlike spouses, unmarried partners are usually not considered next of kin for the purposes of hospital visitation and emergency medical decisions. In addition, they can’t cover their families on their health plans without paying taxes on the coverage, nor are they eligible for Medicare and Medicaid coverage.
Housing: Denied marriage, couples of lesser means are not recognized and thus can be denied or disfavored in their applications for public housing.
Immigration: U.S. residency and family unification are not available to an unmarried partner from another country.
Inheritance: Unmarried surviving partners do not automatically inherit property should their loved one die without a will, nor do they get legal protection for inheritance rights such as elective share or bypassing the hassles and expenses of probate court.
Insurance: Unmarried partners can’t always sign up for joint home and auto insurance. In addition, many employers don’t cover domestic partners or their biological or non-biological children in their health insurance plans.
Portability: Unlike marriages, which are honored in all states and countries, domestic partnerships and other alternative mechanisms only exist in a few states and countries, are not given any legal acknowledgment in most, and leave families without the clarity and security of knowing what their legal status and rights will be.
Parenting: Unmarried couples are denied the automatic right to joint parenting, joint adoption, joint foster care, and visitation for non-biological parents. In addition, the children of unmarried couples are denied the guarantee of child support and an automatic legal relationship to both parents, and are sometimes sent a wrongheaded but real negative message about their own status and family.
Privilege: Unmarried couples are not protected against having to testify against each other in judicial proceedings, and are also usually denied the coverage in crime victims counseling and protection programs afforded married couples.
Property: Unmarried couples are excluded from special rules that permit married couples to buy and own property together under favorable terms, rules that protect married couples in their shared homes and rules regarding the distribution of the property in the event of death or divorce.
Retirement: In addition to being denied access to shared or spousal benefits through Social Security as well as coverage under Medicare and other programs, unmarried couples are denied withdrawal rights and protective tax treatment given to spouses with regard to IRA’s and other retirement plans.
Taxes: Unmarried couples cannot file joint tax returns and are excluded from tax benefits and claims specific to marriage. In addition, they are denied the right to transfer property to one another and pool the family’s resources without adverse tax consequences.
So what is your point? it seems like someone needs to create a country where you can have all of those things. But we live in a world where there are already laws and the way to change laws is to have a vote. do you think that if the whole island was able to vote on your issues above that anything would change? i doubt it because there are only a small amount of bermudians that want that change. its because humans do care that laws have been changed to not make homosexuality a criminal act, but to allow all of the things you list above to happen would require a marriage and the majority of people in Bermuda are against gay marriage, and they have a right to be. Some people find it offensive and gross that two people of the same sex can love each other in a sexual way and they have a right to feel that way. Basically the LGBTQ community is trying to force their lifestyle upon the people of Bermuda in their attempts to push through new laws. On one hand they say they support free speech and on the other they condemn free speech, in some cases with using the same type of language they are condemning. So if you add it all up – a minority lifestyle in the community + laws in place + free speech flip flop (i can say what i want but you can only use words that i say you can) + most people are uncomfortable with, get grossed out by, or just plain don’t approve of the lifestyle = little hope that gay marriage will be allowed in Bermuda any time soon.
Nope. This is completely – and disgustingly – wrong.
The majority never needs protection. It is ALWAYS the minority that needs protection from the majority.
No one is forcing their lifestyle on anyone, except for religious folks forcing THEIR rules on to everyone.
If you add it all up, you are a bigot and should be ashamed of yourself and are on the wrong side of history.
@mike Hind, during slavery in Bermuda and until now, Black people have been in the majority. In south africa, blacks have always been in the majority. Are you telling me that blacks in Bermuda and south Africa have never needed protection from the minority. maybe you will say that is different. I don’t see you standing up against the blatant racism that still occurs in Bda. IMO this is a far more serious issue than some people crying cause gay marriage is not legal. And no I don’t have any physical proof, but I can direct you to many people who have suffered from racism, even though you might not accept that as evidence.
You don’t see me standing up to the blatant racism? Then you haven’t been paying attention.
I do it all the time.
There’s a conversation to be had about that, and I’d be happy to have it with you.
But the topic here is equal rights and marriage equality. To dismiss it because, in your opinion, something else is more important (and to dismiss it so flippantly), is a copout.
Is there any reason to oppose equal rights and marriage equality that doesn’t involve anyone else having to follow the rules of your religion?
Mike Hind,
I read your post and you also my friend……sound like a bigot.
Bigot:
One who is narrowly or intolerantly devoted to his or her opinions and prejudices. This word is a general term that applies to everyone (racists, anti-Semites, misogynists, homophobes and xenophobes).
Just as whites can be bigots, so can blacks, browns and yellows.
In fact, everyone seems to be bigots as they constantly hold fast to what they believe without wavering. A gay person is a bigot, just as a christian can be.
Bigot : a person who is or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices ; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.
Mike and I have had pure differences in opinions, but a bigot, I think he is not. He’s literally sat here and waded his way through all of the horse sh!t with nothing but patience, understanding and tolerance in the name of EQUALITY. To be honest, if he indulged, I would enjoy having a drink with him simply to hear his perspectives. Not saying.Mike is superior to us but his patience and logic a far superior to most on this thread, including myself. We would all be better if we took a page from his book. I haven’t seen him show an ounce of hate or intolerance to any one commenter yet.
Just because YOU find something that someone else does gross or offensive does not mean that that person should be denied the same rights as everyone else.
Maybe I, and a large majority of people, think that two elderly people loving each other in a sexual way is gross and offensive. The elderly are just trying to force their disgusting wrinkly sexual lifestyle on everyone else. Is my (hypothetical) disgust or my taking offense to what SOMEONE ELSE does (in private) a good reason to have laws in place to not allow the elderly to get married? Or to not let them have any of the other same legal rights that everyone else enjoys?
E.g. From the bible: “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again.”
This is the god you are standing up for…
More quoting of horrendous fairy tales.
See my comment to your other post. You are really slow lol.
…you’re missing my point.
I’m not sure if you really have one…
Ah! And there we have it. I can’t help you with that, I’m afraid.
His position is clear. An apology is meaningless.
apology?? Resignation more like it!!!
I agree. But I think RA are right not to venture too much into politics.
That will never happen he having to much fun right now
The intolerant and irrational views of this man, and the tacit support that he receives from segments of the local fundamentalist community are sinister. Drag him out in to the light and make him accountable for his poisonous verbal slander.
If this individual is allowed a free pass to spout his prejudice from a position of public authority then we simply set the bar lower and invite further attacks on all of our human rights.
I await Mr. Smith’s regisnation. Plain and simple. The Nightmare can go with him as well.
mr. smith is not going any where
As a christian Mr. Smith was speaking Old Testament. They are dogs and Sodomites!! Well done Mr. Smith…if only the churches would now rally and support his views hmmmm
Are you saying that everyone has to obey the laws of your religion?
@ OG,
The Old Testament v the New Testament argument has been around for a long time and is a sore point among Christian denominations. Furthermore, it is one reason that there is so many disagreements amongst them.
They cannot even decide whether the Ten Commandments (Old Testament) should be obeyed or disregarded. If not, is it okay to steal, murder etc?
If you put a Seventh Day Adventist pastor, a Roman Catholic bishop, an AME reverend, a Salvation Army officer, an Anglican reverend in a room with a KJV Bible, they will argue until the cows come home, and never agree with each other on major issues.
typo—there are so many ——–
Donald don’t apologize stand up for God i second that,, gays will destroy the family structure, with no question
take that mental illness somewhere else,
Speaking of mental illness…
Wellll… there IS a question…
How?
How will “gays will destroy the family structure”?
And… how will they do so more than divorce?
Here’s another question: who is Donald?
Let’s not be petty. It IS a different name. Mistakes are easy to make.
Because by nature a gay family cannot grow and will end with the death of 1 partner.
While we are on the topic of family structure, how about all these single mothers and fathers with several kids from different women… Hmmm?
@fasho: What does your comment have to do with this story? Theres no laws stopping women from having children for more than one man…
um… that’s exactly the point!
According to the exact same rules people oppose marriage equality, there SHOULD be a law. There isn’t.
The hypocrisy is the point.
Lol these people can’t even help themselves.
The hypocrisy is actually wanting to make a law enabling a couple to start a family (the whole point of marriage) knowing that naturally they can only be a family of two, and you don’t need to be married for that.
Again, there are over 1000 rights granted to married people.
“The whole point of marriage” IS to start a family. A family of two is STILL a family. And, legally, you DO need to be married for that. This is the whole point.
It’s not about making a law, it’s about expanding the law to include everyone, not just heterosexuals, much like they did when they changed it to allow mixed-race couples marry. (Not likening the two, just pointing out that the definition of marriage HAS changed and it changed in living memory).
Reproduction is not a stipulation for marriage, neither is the possibility thereof. If it were, post-menopausal women, sterile men, divorcees who have had vasectomies and hysterectomies and, you know, folks who just don’t want to have kids… wouldn’t be allowed to get married. They are.
Your point is moot.
The point of a law is to stop someone from doing something. If everyone can do it there is no need for a law. There are no laws on eating broccoli because anyone can eat it.
What “family structure”? Having multiple children prior to / without marriage is a widespread Bermudian past time. What “family values” are there in that?
Gay people are born gay. I have too many friends who are gay and have spent years in the closet out of fear of people like Smith (and their own families)….
Tell me, Mr. Smith…at what point did you CHOOSE to be straight? When you found out that you wouldn’t be ostracized for your choice? Beaten up on school? Found you were unable to get housing because of your partner? REALLY…DO TELL!
The whole attitude towards gays in 2013 on this rock is appalling.
By the way…I am straight, female and Christian…the kind that remembers ‘love thy neighbor as thyself’. (NOT the ones who think that the 10 commandments (Old Testament) came from Christ (New Testament))
Sorry if that’s a bit rambling, but I have two nephews and MANY gay friends and this issue with Smith REALLY ticks me the hell off.
stand up for GOd, ummmm God will fight his own fights…man have you read the wrath he spewed over the earth in the bible. Killed everyone and everything (except the fish and sea creatures) and Noah, Noah’s wife and 2 of each and every creature. The animals all got along famously and played cards and tic tac toe until they arrived. They bred immediately after leaving the boat, didn’t eat each other OR ANYTHING for quite some years then when there was enough of them they returned to the food chain.
the real question is …… why the hell did Donnie keep silent for 14 yrs when there were more Gay MPs in the House than you can count on 10 fingers. Else for channel 80…..JOKERS did nothing whist kids suffered.
Don’t apologise …..I’m glad someone is not afraid to speak up for what they beleive in. Most Bermudians are against homosexuality but are afraid to speak up
I’m going to have to ask you to back that up…
That’s easy enough ……if most Bermudians are for hosexual marriages we wouldn’t be having this conversation it would have long went before the house and passed me and most Bermudians are against when you go work tomorrow ask your coworkers
Not evidence.
Sorry. It just isn’t.
You can always buy a plane ticket and remove your intelligent forward thinking self from all we Bermudians who lack intelligence. No one stopping you. YA YA
Sorry Mike that post wasn’t meant for you.
When your at Southampton Princess performing ask the audience. If you and your wife had a little boy do you want a homosexual man playing dress up with your son. You said it early that you don’t like people Forcing their religion on to others. So I know you wouldnt want a homosexual forcing his homosexuality on your poor defenseless child.
WHAT?
This is nonsense!
First off, my show is no place for topics like that. Not sure why you would make that suggestion, or how this is evidence of your claim, but… whatever.
How does a homosexual “force his homosexuality on [a] poor defenseless child”?
Or are you confusing homosexuality and paedophilia? Or conflating them?
Actually, I think I know what he’s getting at. I’ll have to go have a word with that Catholic Priest – he always walks around in that long black gown. Kinda looks like a dress. I need to ask him if he’s been playing ‘dress up’ with those altar boys.
Oh, wait … words out. He is.
Please just go jump in front of a car. You are borderline brain dead.
Would you like a heterosexual forcing his sexuality on a poor defenseless child? Hahaha you are so stupid, I won’t even sugar coat it.
who do you think you are. your educated but ignorant and lack a moral compass!
Whose morals?
Morals based on what?
What kind of “moral compass” do you think Donal Smith has? Evidently you don’t know much about him.
So now you are impugning Donal Smiths charachter when you are in the same breath demanding civility and Justice for Homosexuals? Neither am I suggesting that he has any moral orientation but Homosexuals have a different orientation than he does and it is reasonable for him to cry aloud and spare not. Dont you agree the immorality leads to the degradation of a society?
Nope. Only you and those that share your bigoted views think this.
There is no evidence to back it up… and plenty to show that you are completely wrong.
I agree.
Well that’s bu*lsh*t, and you probably know it is. This country isn’t that backwards.
I believe most Bermudians in the 1600′s favoured slavery. What’s your point?
Bullcr@p
I want an apology from the rainbow alliance when i see two man or two women kissing each other in public!? Then we have a problem!
Why? Why should that be a problem?
You must be either really insecure, or really immature if you can’t even handle that. Time to evolve, you f***ing ape.
More like D-evolve, man + woman = life, while man + man or woman + woman is non prosperous & just against the natural design of the human anatomy.
There’s no “design” to human anatomy. That’s religious talk.
Who says that every couple needs to reproduce. There are plenty of straight couples without children. So your point is moot.
@ Time shall tell I totally agree with u on that! Such a short sentence that means a lot! Talk about hitting the nail on its head!
Okay smarty pants, keep up with the logic here. If there are married couples who don’t produce offspring, then what is the problem with homosexuality? Jesus you people are slow
Your just disgruntled gay! Go to San Francisco!
Lol gladly, if it means getting away from you
@ fasho “insecure or really immature!? HAHAH! using words such as “F***ing ape” shows your immaturity level! Go back in your closet! Hows those apples!?
So…a man and a woman carrying on in public isn’t offensive? They should just go for it? Full view of your kids?
People only take offense to things they don’t like.
I’d wager that this confused little pork chop really likes beef:)
Like in the days of Sodom and Gomorrah so shall be the days of judgement ahead if we collectively, as a people, tolerate such detestable “morally disgusting” adultery in any form as being acceptable.
As a forewarning to those who do not support homosexuality, and you express this publicly (using kind “good boy” language or not so nice sounding language) KNOW that you will be persecuted for what you believe. Don’t be moved for what you believe in.
We live in a world now where we have to compromise the truth for one’s feelings. This is why we are in the mess we’re in.
There is no greater HUMAN injustice going on right now in Bermuda then the killings of so many of our young males. Many of the homosexual supports (not all) and the Rainbow Alliance have not and will not publicly speak against the senseless murders of so many of our young black man.
You all are worried, uptight, upset, angry, about words spoken that have NO power behind them. It’s time to move on and let’s address the real humanity crisis facing this island right now.
Again. We all believe that you have the right to believe that.
The problem is when you force those beliefs on others by denying them equal rights and allow hatespeech.
“The problem is when you force those beliefs on others.” Is this not what the homosexual community is doing to the public who is not ready to collectively accept homosexuality as being morally okay.
Using the words freaks or weird, at least to me, does not equate to a hate speech. The words are discourteous, not hateful. It is not that big of a deal to ask for him to resign as some are calling for.
Blacks never asked for a public apology for every hateful or racist thing that was said against them. When you realize that ones words do not hold power over your life than the words by others will not unnerve you.
Nope. They’re just asking for equality.
How could something that is morally wrong have equal rights?
It is not a coincidence that many people making comments supporting homosexuality do not believe in a God. No God to you means no moral authority so you do not see homosexuality a moral issue. No moral authority has to mean there is no way to determine what is morally right or wrong. If you believe homosexuality is right then you have to believe all forms of adultery is right. If you believe sexuality is not a moral issue than nothing should be morally wrong with cheating in marriage, there should be nothing morally wrong with polygamy, there should be nothing morally wrong with a 30 year old wanting to have sexual relations with a 17 year old a day shy of his/her 18th birthday. With no God, there is no moral authority, with no moral authority there is no such thing as right and wrong. With no such thing as morally right and wrong every kind of sexual preferences should be allowed.
Easy. Because YOUR moral code and your God do not and should not apply to anyone else.
“No God… means no moral authority”
This is simply not true. God does not imbue people with a moral code. It’s just a different one than yours… which kind of disrupts the rest of your post.
Oh, and homosexuality and adultery? Two different things. Your core argument is flawed.
Having said that, I DO think that every kind of sexual orientation should be allowed and accepted.
Just as I think that every kind of religious belief should be accepted.
I just don’t think anyone should be expected to follow someone else’s, nor denounced for doing so.
I believe in God, just not the man made Bible.
God would never have been so wordy or full of contradiction.
Irrelevant.
Folks can believe whatever they want.
Slight difference marriage is a binding contract between two parties, adultery is considered breaking that contract. Morals are also not exclusive to religion. there are a lot of moral people who are not religious.
When you realize that ones COMPLETELY innocent and harmless actions in public do not hold power over your life than the choices made by OTHERS will not unnerve you… Smart a$$
Haha!! Your right!! The innocent actions of others do not hold power over my or other lives.
But here is what you don’t get.
By legally or publicly accepting such detestable “morally disgusting” adultery has a country or Island will unnerve people. The moral decadence of society will have a powerful impact on everyone.
Or… it could just be normal.
And you could keep the “moral decadence” out of your life and everyone else, who doesn’t share your religious beliefs, can live their lives happily, too.
I do not understand your point. It goes on whether you accept it or not. These are your neighbors and fellow human beings you are talking about.
You’re right it will go on whether I accept it or not. However, it is not a matter of if I accept it but it is a matter if we as a country or island accepts it by making a law in support of homosexuality. It doesn’t become me accepting it or not, it becomes Bermuda accepts homosexuality as being morally right.
I believe in a God, so to me when we accept it has a country that is when God will send his judgement.
Your right, these are my neighbors and fellow human beings, heck some are my cousins which I love. For me at least, it’s not about the person it’s about the morally wrong thing in which they believe in which I don’t agree with. The same goes for other forms of adultery.
One thing (and thank you for your post. It’s always nice to see people with a level of tolerance):
Folks aren’t looking for laws “to support homosexuality”. They’re just looking for equal rights.
BOOM!!!!!!!
Boom what? The accusation that the rainbow alliance WILL NOT speak out about the ongoing violence is completely baseless. If they came out tomorrow and condemned the violence that argument goes up in smoke, not to mention one of the most recent victims of this violence is gayer than getting a fanny pack for your birthday. Where was your outrage when an Afghan wedding was victim of a drone strike killing how many civilians? Let me guess it doesn’t concern you because you can’t expand your thoughts past the borders of this 22mile island. The rainbow alliance has an objective just like the gang taskforce. Why hasn’t the gang taskforce voiced their opinion on the gay rights issue? Because it’s not their objective, although that doesn’t stop them from having a silent opinion. Just because someone doesn’t voice their opinion doesn’t mean you can come along and tell them how they feel about an issue. I really didnt feel like posting on this article because everything here has been said before but really, bottom line, you don’t have to be gay, so why does it concern you? Two people finding happiness in their own way isn’t going to harm you so you have no right to express outrage. I certainly hope no one on here opposing gay rights is catholic. Also I’m pretty sure that the bible doesn’t say love thy neighbor except the gay ones. Mercy this is such a ridiculous debate…. DO YOU!
“Many of the homosexual supports (not all) and the Rainbow Alliance have not and will not publicly speak against the senseless murders of so many of our young black man.”
Yes, they have. This is an outright lie.
It’s not a lie. A lie is being 100% untrue. It is a fact that some of the same faces that we have seen on TV and in the papers supporting homosexual rights we have not seen at past events protesting against the injustice killings of our young men. That is a fact.
I say this not to divide, but to speak truth to what is real. You (not you personally)
cannot speak out against one injustice and keep silent about another.
I haven’t seen many of the people on this thread on TV speaking out against gang killings.
That’s a strawman argument.
So, being seen at events is the only way to publicly speak against things?
I notice you narrowed your definition.
As I’ve said before on here: Most people who speak out against homophobia and intolerance do so on most issues. They believe in equal rights, period.
Evidence.
Ok. Let’s look at some of the people posting on here.
There’s me. I’ve spoken out against violence.
Sandy Bottom has, as well. I’ve seen it.
Take a peek at the people posting, then look up the stories on violence. You’ll see a lot of the same names.
FYI – The Rainbow Alliance has spoken about the need for other advocacy groups such as churches to rally around Bermuda’s hurting community. So yes, they have addressed that there are other issues.
“… We hope to see them redirect their collective attention and money spent (with full-page ads running from $2000-$3000) on more pressing community issues. We hope that the Anglican Church also continues their positive community work and does not seek to create any more divisions within our already fractured community.”
http://rainbowbermuda.org/2013/09/rainbow-alliance-of-bermudas-response-to-ufc-bermudas-ad/
Thank you for this link.
Wow here we go again…. I really stand by what I always say people are afraid of what they don’t understand.
So to some of the commenters no people shouldn’t have to apologize for how they view things but they way they go on about it well that is a different story.
Everyone is different, so people of the same sex want to live happy lives together without being judged, let them… Please don’t throw what the bible says in any responses to me because it says so much more and people continue to lie, steal, cheat and judge others.
So the next time before you try and judge someone else be honest with yourself and as yourself would GOD be pleased with who you are and what you do……?
Love is Love you may not approve but it still does not change that same sex couples love each other just like straight people!!! If you took the flesh off a body and you only saw two hearts/souls would you be able to determine who was who….
Your answer would be NO!!!!!
Mike Hind
you really have too much free time!
Imagine. On a Sunday, when I work on my computer all day.
And it’s not “Free Time” if I’m fighting for something I believe in.
Interesting that THIS is what you choose to comment on.
What i want to know is just how many gay people are living in Bermuda? Is it enough for us to be changing or making laws to suit them? should we be making a big fuss over a select few gay people?
Why does it matter? As long as discrimination exists, shouldn’t we fight, even if it’s only for a relatively small portion of the community?
Your saying i Shouldnt discriminate against muderers
Are you fighting for the rights of pedifiles as well
Nope. Neither of those involve consent.
There is no comparison or correlation.
and both harm others. The silly sh*t people attempt to use to justify their belief. I really just don’t get it, gays have always been here an always will, has it harmed you before? No, because what you don’t know won’t hurt you and most self respecting humans keep their business to themselves. The few that didn’t were dealt with by the courts just like any other couple. People talk about same sex couples making out in public, personally I don’t think anyone should be. Control yourself because that’s what’s sets.us apart from animals, when you close your door, let loose and embrace your passion. The only person who.needs to know how passionate you are about your lover, is your lover. One thing about Bermudians is they need to get the flock out of other peoples bedrooms….Any of you bigots got an opinion on how I like to tear up some box? Thought not.
Why change our laws to outlaw discrimination against any minority then? Or calling any minority “freaks”?
You think it’s ok just because they aren’t a large proportion of the population?
I can assure you that if everyone who was gay or bisexual were to wake up tomorrow morning and be the colour blue , you would be shocked to not only see how many there were but more importantly WHO many of them are.
That little gem came from a medical professional here in Bermuda many years ago.
Based on your logic, there should be no issues as to whether or not homosexuals are granted the same rights as heterosexuals. If there aren’t many gay people living here, then a change in laws won’t make a difference to most of the population. Conversely, if there are a number of homosexuals on the island, then perhaps changes should be made “to suit them”.
Or perhaps I can put it like this: There aren’t that many white people living in Bermuda, so there shouldn’t be a problem if we discriminate against them.
Unless Bermuda is significantly different than than the rest of the world you should exoect that somewhere between 3000-5000 people living here are homosexual or bi-sexual.
Wow that’s a lot of gays for this small island….
Its not right, it is Wrong, no man should put his d*** in a s*** tank.
That’s your opinion.
Why do you get to tell other people where they get to put their body parts?
homosexuals are people to be respected. they are subjected to gods laws too.
Pedifiles are people to should they be respected
Again, no consent. Different subject.
Is English your first language?
A completely ridiculous comparison reflecting the complete lack of intellect with people giving any support to Smith’s comments. There is a reason people get called “Kool Aid drinkers”, you lack any semblance of critical thinking! Jim Jones would have recruited quite the flock from Bermuda!…
so could the klu klux klan
And to answer your question, yes they should be respected. Imprisoned, treated, but also respected.
Strange…. 108 comments and the one I made at 10:00 this moring was deleted… So I say again… apology?? Resign you fool….
Mike Hind…. You go man!,,
Stand your ground Mr. Smith. John The Baptist lost his head for speaking truth.
So should we also stone the rapist?
A question Mr Smith should be made to answer.
And Paul.
An apology would be the right thing to do, but the thing is the SDA church has not apologized yet so it appears that they endorse his comments so likelihood of an apology is slim….
The truth is an offence, but not a sin.
Bob Marley
As the produce of a grandmother who basically hated everyone who wasn’t a WASP, and parents who loved EVERYBODY…I find Smith’s comments embedded deeply in the past and in ignorance.
At the VERY least, he owes the gay/lesbian population a HEART-FELT apology; he needs to resign and then start doing some proper research. He may actually learn something…but I’m not holding my breath on that one.
smith should respect people but people should respect smith. he is morally correct but politically incorrect. he is not outdated. homosexuality goes back hundreds of years in greece and rome. european history is filled with this. Some people always like to do their own thing with no regard to moral law. they don’t want to submit to a higher authority. they want to be gods. and they defend what is immoral. yet even these should be respected.
A. Thousands of years.
B. More importantly, they don’t HAVE to submit to a higher authority if they don’t want to.
By design, a persons rectum is for getting rid of excrement from the body only. Homosexuals put their twist to it and try to change what it was intended for, and want to make it for entering, and not exiting the body. If you get off on that, its up to you. I still feel you have basic human rights and should not need any other special set of policicies that pertain to your back door lifestyle, be you either lgbtq. But it seems you won’t stop until you are allowed to marry, which legally,and morally is the union of a man and a woman, none other.
We weren’t designed.
You have no proof either way. This is your belief. It could be we were designed simply with the capacity and environmental catalysts to evolve.
It could be… but there is ABSOLUTELY no proof of it.
There is no proof of intention or design.
None whatsoever. At all.
There is, however, a tonne of evidence and proof that we WEREN’T designed.
AND, no one is trying to get “any other special set of policies”.
Just the same set that everyone else has.
As for the “Legally and morally” part?
Whose morals? Based on what?
(The legal part is what folks are trying to change. It’s been changed before, it will be again.)
Mike hind, rightfully so, you speak from a European cultural perspective, and so I understand your view. But, that’s not part of my culture, which is African. Because of these different world views, you cannot expect people to agree with your cultural bias.
Not an answer to my question. Just an ad hominem. “You’re only saying that ‘cuz you’re white.”
I’ll be sure to let all my friends that are gay or allies… and happen to be black… that they’re only speaking from a European perspective.
Which part of the African cultural perspective speaks to denying rights to other people, simply because you don’t like what they do in private?
Which part of that African perspective says it’s ok to lie and force your belief system onto other people?
I ask again, since you seem to be ignoring the things I’m ACTUALLY posting:
“Whose morals? Based on what?”
People who live in glass house shouldn’t throw stones! Not everybody forgets!
He has quite a history. Not sure why we should listen to him when it comes to sexual morality.
Listen I dont care for a bible arguement againt homosexuals.
I just know it is wrong for 2 men/2 women to have sex together.
Simple as that
Wrong how?
And I think it’s wrong and disgusting for people to eat avocados, but I’m not demanding that the people who eat them have their basic human rights taken away.
Seriously, if you think it’s wrong, then don’t do it. Leave everyone else alone.
Wrong why?
Everyone has a right to their beliefs and should not have to apologize for their view on certain subjects…..
Not sure why they need an apology, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I’m sure he didn’t mean to offend anybody with his comments.
LOL. Right.
We are all homos whether you like it or not;
“Humans (variously Homo sapiens and Homo sapiens sapiens) are primates of the family Hominidae, and the only extant species of the genus Homo”.
BTW Homosexual behaviour is universal in the animal kingdom;
“No species has been found in which homosexual behaviour has not been shown to exist, with the exception of species that never have sex at all, such as sea urchins and aphis. Moreover, a part of the animal kingdom is hermaphroditic, truly bisexual. For them, homosexuality is not an issue.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals
Even if he did apologise, it would not be sincere, because these are his beliefs.
Agreed. An apology would mean nothing. Hit him in his pockets.
I think people should be Focusing on the Spending that this Group are doing these guy’s are having a Field Day at the Corp. not sure if is was run like this be fore but these ones are surely taking a Piss at the Tax payers Expense, they should be Investigated,,All of Them !
The culture clash often leaves white people thinking they are superior because they use reason and science as the source of their authority in debates. While We all need reason and benefit from science we must not neglect or disrespect the role of tradition and inspiration. Black people are better off when we reject the white culture that abdicates morality in exchange of an immoral world that seeks to satisfy their whims and fantasies. THe want us to defend their filth but they dont condemn their own racist practices. THey even complain when we stand up for human rights as black people. NO. We deplore homosexuality but respect the humanity of the homosexual. Their behaviour is contrary to nature, scripture and our cultural traditions. Homosexuals need to know right from wrong and there is such a thing.
This is not a racial thing. It’s about equality.
No one wants you to ‘defend their filth’, they just want you to stop discriminating against them and stop demanding that people follow YOUR religion’s rules.
It’s been shown time and again that it’s not against nature, YOUR scripture is yours and those that follow and NO ONE ELSE’S, and cultural traditions change. All the time. Like, ALL the time.
Nobody is trying to make homosexuals straight. Just stop expecting everyone to accept nasty behaviour and call it right under the veneer of civil rights. Some are actually born homosexual that is not their fault. Black or white. YEt the large out cry is not about that. IT is about the total rejection of a moral principle and a conciousness of what is correct. Go and do what you want to do but dont try to silence the truth. Depravity and exploitation of people by Europes warped morals has left confusion all over the planet, Somebody needs to tell the truth. While respecting the humanity of all.
Are you not reading what I’m writing?
“No one wants you to ‘defend their filth’, they just want you to stop discriminating against them and stop demanding that people follow YOUR religion’s rules.”
You think that Europeans are “to blame” for homosexuality? That’s….interesting……
Yes. You are wrong.
Dear Friend , oh dear.
Judging by this post and the one you made at 7.44am you’re implying that there’s no such thing at all as black homosexuals.
I hate to break it you but by far the largest number of gays, homosexuals and ‘DLs’ in Bermuda are black.
And Mike is standing up for their protection under the law as many,many other whites here are too.
I also suggest that you do a little historical research on Shaka Zulu and find out about his personal lifestyle . You’ll find that gay behavior was not unique to Ancient Greece or Rome (or any ‘white enclave’).
clearly you dont read well. the degradation of blacks who practice this behaviour is a direct result of being confused by the racist man. THey have been socialized into these practices. It seems like you have had your share of confusing our young black men and women since you know so much. Shaka Zulu “gay” is that what the white man is saying now. citing one person from history based upon questionable sources is far from being credible. Study history and you will see where this is largely practiced and defended. Your backyard. No pun intended!
While I understand what you’re saying, if you do any sort of research into civil rights in the US you’ll find that almost identical reasonings were used concerning the keeping of slaves and giving black people equal rights.
Those reasonings were wrong back then, and they’re just as wrong now. They’re wrongness doesn’t change just because different people are using the reasoning.
Dear Friend, as you can see, there is no rational argument that Mike Hind and others can provide when we look at this issue from a European viewpoint. Just discussing it via culture, as with most issues, totally defeats and exposes the animalistic behaviour of European culture and mores. There exist no rebuttal. And Mike, this isn’t about race at all, but culture. It just so happens that except for euro culture, all others share similar/identical worldviews. Europeans have progressed humanity via science and technology, which is great, but they have NO MORAL AUTHORITY at all, never did, never will.
I am kind of curious how ancient Egyptian culture falls into this line of thinking. It’s my understanding that it falls under black culture these days, and homosexuality was practiced and fairly well accepted by the Egyptians if you can trust the artifacts that have been dug up over the years.
The ONLY argument that I’ve offered is this:
Why does ANYONE else have to follow the rules of YOUR religion?
You haven’t answered that at all.
(And the “Europeans… have NO MORAL AUTHORITY at all…” line?
Racist and sickening.)
No need for an apology as it was not be real.
Respect for others is what is the reason for this conversation; however, here’s a question for you:
What makes you think they if the Gay community is afforded equal rights in Bermuda that their “situation” (meaning the level of tolerance in the community) would improve?
Their saviour, Mike Hind, himself has stated everyone has the right to believe what they want – - so how does that change the day that gays receive equal rights?
Q
No need to be rude. I’m not a saviour by ANY stretch. I just feel strongly about equal rights.
To answer your question, as best I can, the “situation” for the gay community will improve if they are afforded equal rights… because they’ll have equal rights. It’s really that simple.
People’s right to BELIEVE what they want won’t change in any way. They just won’t be able to demand that other people follow their rules.
But how does the day to day living in this country improve? It doesn’t – that’s the point.
If Person A doesn’t like or believe that homosexual sex is right, how does that change the day they are afforded equal rights?
As to your last point, “they just won’t be able to demand that other people follow their rules” – - this statements confuses me – let me explain.
Taking religion out of the conversation, if one is allowed to believe whatever they choose, how can another demand they follow the other’s rules?
I can respect that you don’t believe in God or the Bible (just using you as an example) – - and I don’t expect you to – - nor do I demand that you should – - I JUST don’t understand how the gay community then uses that same stance to justify their right to believe that since I believe in God and the Bible that I am demanding that they not be afforded rights – - we all have rights – -
Question is:
Is it about rights for all OR just those within the gay community?
Another question for you:
If it is about rights for all, why do I, as a Black male, still have to endure the stigma of a white lady clutching her purse when I walk by OR the “following” when buying something in a store?
I will tell you why – - – it is because the fear and hatred that people feel towards me as a Black male still exist, regardless of the issuing of “rights” to me – - – THUS my point of the awarding “rights” to the gay community WILL NOT change what they face – - and if that is the reasoning behind it, it is a falsehood and a fallacy.
Q
I’m confused, so are you saying that the civil rights afforded to black people were worthless because “nothing has changed” or because white ladies clutch their purses when you walk by or because you are followed in a store?
Since the gay community likes to use the Civil Rights Movement as a mirror, I used the reference.
My point is it will not matter if the gay community is given equal rights because the change in law will not and cannot change the nature of the individual.
Question:
Did you really not understand me or were you just trying to be __________ ?
Q
But the Civil Rights Movement HAS changed the nature of the individual!
Not as fast as we want it to, but it HAS changed it.
I don’t know how you can be so dismissive of the movement as to imply that it hasn’t changed anything!
If you take religion out of the conversation. There IS no other reason to oppose equal rights that doesn’t involve religion.
There simply isn’t.
“I can respect that you don’t believe in God or the Bible (just using you as an example) – – and I don’t expect you to – – nor do I demand that you should – – I JUST don’t understand how the gay community then uses that same stance to justify their right to believe that since I believe in God and the Bible that I am demanding that they not be afforded rights – – we all have rights – -”
Did you miss the part where it was only in 2013 that “sexual orientation,” was added to Human Rights Protection?
And the part where we don’t have marriage equality?
No one is saying “if you believe in God and the bible you are demanding that they not be afforded rights”. What they’re saying is “You are demanding that they not be afforded rights because you believe that your God and bible should apply to other people”. It’s not the belief that’s the problem (as I’ve said WAY too many times on here), it’s the “they not be afforded rights” part. People ARE saying that they shouldn’t be afforded rights. It’s happening. And the reasoning is that they believe that their religious rules should apply to others. If I’m wrong, what other possible reason is there that hasn’t been debunked a million times?
Reproduction? Proven wrong. Unnatural? Proven wrong. What else? Slippery slope to incest and bestiality? Nope. There’s no consent. Got anything else? Anything at all that doesn’t involve religion?
“Question is:
Is it about rights for all OR just those within the gay community?”
The reason I keep calling it “equal rights” is because I believe that it IS about equal rights. It’s rights for EVERYONE. The amendment to the HRA means that you, as an (I assume) straight person, are safe from discrimination based on your sexual orientation. Think about it. The world is changing and people ARE becoming more accepting of gay folks, allowing them to leave the closet. There are assh… er… not so nice people… everywhere. If some homosexual bigot says “I don’t want breeders in my apartment”, they’re not allowed to do that. It’s about equal rights. Plain and simple.
“If Person A doesn’t like or believe that homosexual sex is right, how does that change the day they are afforded equal rights?”
This is about WAY more than sex. It’s about who people are as people. It’s about who they love.
Do you judge straight people based on how they have sex?
“If it is about rights for all, why do I, as a Black male, still have to endure the stigma of a white lady clutching her purse when I walk by OR the “following” when buying something in a store?”
Because people are assh*les. And bigots. And racists.
But, because of the Civil Rights movement, there are less and less of them every generation. Because of the Civil Rights movement, education about bigotry and racism has increased.
Before the Civil Rights movement, the old ladies clutching their purses and the security guards following you in the store would have been in the right.
Because of the Civil Rights movement, society, on the whole, frowns on this behaviour. Because of the Civil Rights movement, the fear and hatred people feel towards you as a Black male is a little less than it was a generation ago. And in another generation, it will be even less.
Things like attitudes and societies don’t change overnight.
Wouldn’t it be lovely if they did.
It takes generations.
But this CANNOT be a reason not to fight for equality, no matter where it may be.
God created man in His own image. Genesis 1:27
He didn’t exclude any man be him gay or not. If you don’t like it, take it up with Him.
There are a few verses I would hope that Mr. Smith would remember:
Romans 14:12
“So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.”
Matthew 12:36
“But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken.”
John 8:7
“When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” ”
Matthew 7:1-2
“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.”
Actually, I feel like Mr. Smith should re-read the entire chapter of Romans 14.
14 Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. 2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. 4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.
5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. 8 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
10 You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. 11 It is written:
“‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will acknowledge God.’”
12 So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.
13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister. 14 I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean. 15 If your brother or sister is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy someone for whom Christ died. 16 Therefore do not let what you know is good be spoken of as evil. 17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18 because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval.
19 Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21 It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother or sister to fall.
22 So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23 But whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.
what the heck does this have to do with homosexuality which is written about in Romans 1 and 2. Obviously you dont realize that you are misapplying the text and that Donal Smith is not a person who observes any day as holier than another and his diet is not according to the jewish tradition. You are not sure about much here. You are Just quoting romans.
I believe, though I’m open to correction, that Commenter is pointing out that the Bible, at length, suggests that one minds one’s own self and to leave others to themselves, and not to behave in a way that might send others from God and his word. And that, in the end, we will all be judged, in part on the way that we treat others.
Something that Mr. Smith, and some of the posters here should be mindful of.
Yes, thank you Familiar, that is what I was pointing out.
Wow Bernews, a comment I submitted earlier this morning is sitting and waiting for moderation and yet you allow this nonesense to be posted?:
The culture clash often leaves white people thinking they are superior because they use reason and science as the source of their authority in debates. While We all need reason and benefit from science we must not neglect or disrespect the role of tradition and inspiration. Black people are better off when we reject the white culture that abdicates morality in exchange of an immoral world that seeks to satisfy their whims and fantasies. THe want us to defend their filth but they dont condemn their own racist practices. THey even complain when we stand up for human rights as black people. NO. We deplore homosexuality but respect the humanity of the homosexual. Their behaviour is contrary to nature, scripture and our cultural traditions. Homosexuals need to know right from wrong and there is such a thing.
Wonder if all those who support homosexual human rights also support cannabis smokers rights since the essence of them are very similar. Both want the right not to be discriminated for their preference of putting something in a part of their body it doesn’t belong in. Both are in a lifestyle that only has the potential of harming themselves. Both have been prejudged due to religious beliefs that have crossed over to the law of the land.
I think you’ll find that there is a HUGE crossover between the two.
Most ganja smokers do not support homo business. Gays might support ganja rights, but only for false equivocation?
Is that your opinion or is there actually evidence of this? Please post evidence.
The questions I posed were actually rhetorical because I know as Mike commented I know there is a huge crossover. Admittedly I just did this to get some discussion going about it. Many pro cannabis nations & American states are also pro gay rights supporters. The most pro cannabis country in the world Netherlands set the idea of same sex marriage on the table back in the 1980s & one of the first to legalise it. I’ll admit that homosexuality to me is an anomaly of human behaviour but like other anomaly just because its different doesn’t mean it should be discriminated against. Even though homosexuality is not my cup of tea it doesn’t make me hate or fear gays. What I find interesting about it all is that many hardcore macho heterosexual males who despise gay males have a totally opposite & hypocritical view of gay females especially good looking ones.
Um… first off, I’d have to see evidence of this wild claim.
Secondly… If you read, “Wonder if all those who support homosexual human rights also support cannabis smokers rights” pretty much means “Gays might support ganja rights”, so… yeah.
Why did you post again? Oh, yeah. To spew hateful rhetoric like, “homo business”.
It’s sad.
MIke your problem is that you dont have a moral base for supporting the practice of homosexuality. There for you decide to eliminate God and erode morality or to create a GOd in your image and shape morals based upon your debased ways. IT does not work that way. God is God all by himself. You need to submit to his laws of love and accept that he loves you and wants the best for you even if it goes against your western education and values.
“You need to submit to his laws of love and accept that he loves you and wants the best for you even if it goes against your western education and values.”
No. I do not.
I have a moral base, just a different one from yours.
For example, I don’t judge people as inferior to me, morally, based on their race or religion or lack of religion or sexuality.
I also don’t think that it’s my place to tell people that they have to “submit to [God's] laws, nor do I expect them to follow the rules of my belief system.
I know you desperately need to denounce me for my views and vocal support for tolerance and equality, but to claim that I’m “eroding morality” and have “debased ways” because of the colour of my skin is… well, it’s just plain racist. I know some folks here claim you can’t be racist because of the colour of your skin, but, well, that’s not true. You have judged me as inferior to you because of my race and my ethnic culture. That is the very definition of the word.
As I said before, you’ve covered most of the bases of bigotry and it both saddens and sickens me that you would stoop THIS low to defend your hatred.
You have not countered the argument. Answer this. what is your moral base and reference system? kant’s categorical imperative, bible, reason, natural law or opinion. where do you develop your mores from? rome and greece is your answer and they are deplorable. For you the rule is simply what is legal and feels good is okay. You are getting angry and sounding like donal smith. To defend sex between two men is not defending equality!
Now you’re answering the questions for me? Wow.
You got a whole lot of projections about who I am and what I believe.
I’ve already explained that I have a moral code and that it’s just different from yours.
The rest of your post about what “my rule” is is just more of you making stuff up. As you keep doing.
I’m not angry, I’m sad. I’m sad that you have SO much hate in your heart that you would freak out like this.
You’re obsessing WAY too much about the actual mechanics of how people have sex (by the way, did you miss the part where straight people have anal sex, too? Should this be banned?) and are ignoring the love that two people can have.
What people do in their bedrooms, how they have sex, where they put body parts, it’s none of your business and I don’t know why you think it is your business.
YOU haven’t answered MY question:
Is there a reason to oppose equal rights that DOESN’T involve other people following the rules of your religion?
Answer that.
Tommy, They do have the potential to hurt someone else. Ever heard of AIDS?
Heterosexuals also get and give AIDS. So do cats. What exactly is your point here?
WOW!
Seriously?
It’s now at about 50:50-60:40, gay to straight in America.
Unprotected sex isn’t just a gay thing, neither is AIDS.
Please do a LITTLE reading before you post things like this.
what are you talking about. Your off base here buddy!
Wow, there are a lot of uneducated people in Bermuda….
Yeah and you are one of them. You morally uneducated and confused. Thats why you would defend someone putting their p—- in the r—- where feces is excreted and say its okay. Are you sick…Yes you are! We need to teach out children the truth about this abomination. ANd to talk about education,
If you are not aware it was a law made by white people to prevent blacks from being educated. This was forced to keep us down. Yet we are trying to protect ourselves from the liberal European Education that leaves people morally bankrupt and confused. To be educated into your civilization is not necessarily advancement. We take you medicine and technology but leave your values. You are the most corrupt people on the planet and you need to learn to love people and respect them just like you want us to love your homosexuals and accept them.
Sick, sick racism right here.
Completely deluded and insane.
You’re spinning out of control, Dear friend.
No I am not. I am spinning you out of control because I am speaking the truth. Do you disagree with my comments on history or the practices of homosexuals?
Of course I do. Don’t be ridiculous.
I’ve shown I disagree with you on every point. Don’t be disingenuous.
“Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.” Romans 3:31
Exodus 21:20-21
Exodus 35:2
Leviticus 12:5
Leviticus 18:19
Leviticus 19:19
Leviticus 19:27
Leviticus 20:9-10
Leviticus 20:13
Leviticus 20:18
Leviticus 20:27
Leviticus 21:9
Leviticus 21:17-21
Leviticus 24:14-16
Leviticus 25:44-45
Deuteronomy 13:5-10
Deuteronomy 13:12-15
Deuteronomy 17:2-7
Deuteronomy 22:20-21
Deuteronomy 23:1-2
Deuteronomy 25:11-12
Mark 12:19
Luke 16:18
1 Corinthians 11:5
Ephesians 5:22-24
1 Timothy 2:11
1 Peter 2:18
Ezekiel 16:49-50
Matthew 10:14-15
To reiterate:
Harry Potter Series: “Do we live our lives according to a work of fiction?”:
Book 1 Chapter 3, Page, 241 Line 25
Book 2 Chapter 7, Page, 785 Line 22
Book 3 Chapter 15, Page, 333, Line 2
Book 4 Chapter 10, Page 112, Line 56
Book 5 Chapter 22, Page 453, Line 12
Book 6 Chapter 2, Page 9, Line 43
Book 7 Chapter 13, Page 76, Line 32
If you would defend someone putting their p…. in the r…,, where f.e.c.e.s is excreted and say its okay. Are you sick…Yes you are! We need to teach out children the truth about this abomination. ANd to talk about education,
If you are not aware it was a law made by white people to prevent blacks from being educated. This was forced to keep us down. Yet we are trying to protect ourselves from the liberal European Education that leaves people morally bankrupt and confused. To be educated into your civilization is not necessarily advancement. We take you medicine and technology but leave your values. You are the most corrupt people on the planet and you need to learn to love people and respect them just like you want us to love your homosexuals and accept them.
Thank goodness your posts are so ridiculous that no one could possibly take you seriously.
Really, seek help. A good, qualified, capable Psychologist may be able to help you come to terms with your hate.
Just because YOU find something that someone else does gross or offensive or disgusting does not mean that that person should be denied the same rights as everyone else.
Maybe I, and a large majority of people, think that two elderly people having sex is gross and offensive. The elderly are just trying to force their disgusting wrinkly sexual lifestyle on everyone else. Is my (hypothetical) disgust, or my taking offense to what SOMEONE ELSE does (in private) a good reason to have laws in place to not allow the elderly have any of the other same legal rights that everyone else enjoys?
NO. Whether or not I find elderly sex disgusting has no bearing on whether or not the elderly should be allowed to be together and have equal rights.
Also, if someone were to campaign that the elderly should have equal rights, their standing up for the elderly’s rights to do whatever they want to do in private does not constitute a defense for them putting their wrinkly p…. in the wrinkly v… where they wear Depends, and are often incontinent and smelly. (Wanna talk about feces? Visit the CCU)
So let’s say that the thought of 2 old people having sex really does gross me out. But you know what the solution for that is? DON’T THINK ABOUT 2 OLD PEOPLE HAVING SEX. It doesn’t affect me or you or anyone else.