Petition Opposing Same Sex Marriage Launches

October 23, 2015

An online petition opposing same sex marriage in Bermuda has been launched, attaining over 700 signatures thus far.

The website — www.preservemarriage.bm — says, “We agree that marriage in Bermuda should remain defined and upheld as a special union ordained by God between a man and a woman.

“This union celebrates the necessary natural differences between a male and a female to procreate, fosters moral integrity, strengthens the family unit and therefore our society. For these reasons we are opposed to same-sex marriage in Bermuda.

“This website is formed by a wide cross-section of citizens in Bermuda that desire to preserve marriage in our country,” the website added. “This petition is for persons aged 18 and over.”

The official Bermuda domain registrar website lists Cornerstone Bible Fellowship on Church Street as the registrant for the domain preservemarriage.bm.

Promotional video for the website:

The Ministry of Community, Culture and Sports recently held public information sessions regarding same sex marriage, which followed after a petition with 2,500 signatures was presented to Government in May 2015, with the petition calling for same sex marriage to be legalized.

Speaking at the first meeting, Minister Patricia Gordon Pamplin said, “In May of this year, I was presented with a petition requesting that the government consider implementing legislation to give effect to same sex marriage.

“I promised that I would consider the petition and that I would present it to my colleagues for discussion and determination of next steps respecting the petition.

“Almost instantaneously with the breaking news of the receipt of the petition, the public discourse by way of contributions to the blogs of the various media confirmed that this very emotive subject elicited very strong views within the community.

“There were those who believe that it is a no-brainer; that no one’s rights ought to be undermined and therefore legislation should be instantly amended.

“On the other hand, there were those who believed we should not consider making such a move to amend the legislation, as it would offend their own belief system.”

“We have been questioned as to why we are addressing this matter now, in light of other pressing matters facing the community. On the other hand, there are questions as to what has taken us so long to address this matter.

“It is my belief that sober, measured research is needed in order to show that we are considering the impact of this issue on the whole community.”

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Comments (241)

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  1. Family Man says:

    What a joke. I signed it six times. Three of them as Jesus Christ. There are no controls over multiple signatories nor any attempt at ensuring legitimacy of the signatories. A bit like their whole petition. Not to be taken seriously.

    Like(116)
    Dislike(76)
    • Think again says:

      Whats real funny is the OBA Government will not pass the law.

      No matter how many times you confused nursery rhymers click dislike.
      Now get over yourself and marry someone of the opposite sex. The odds are not in your favor.

      It was always Hansel and Gretel not Hensel and Harry. What type of candy are you both looking for!!!!!!!!!!!!

      Like(18)
      Dislike(22)
      • Think again says:

        Why don't you Gays just have a march down front street. Everyone else has done it.

        Like(14)
        Dislike(15)
        • Sickofantz says:

          So funny when I saw there was an organisation here in Bermuda called 'Pride', I just assumed it was Gay Pride like everywhere else!

          Like(9)
          Dislike(4)
      • Pamela says:

        Hansel and Gretel were brother and sister. Are you really equating being gay with incest? Are you that deluded?
        Marrying someone you don't love just to appease the religious in society sounds exactly as hypocritical as so many in the church are. Lying about ones sexuality just so your type wont be uncomfortable, that's a great way to force people to live their lives. And you advocate lying in what you consider a religious ceremony or rite. Wouldn't that be sacrilege? The hypocracy of so many of the religious can be astounding!
        The odds may not be good but it wont be the first cause that faced an up hill battle against ignorance and prevailed in the long run.

        Like(10)
        Dislike(3)
    • SOS says:

      As Premier Dunkley said "What a waste of F!@#ing film"

      Like(44)
      Dislike(16)
      • Just Ask'n says:

        Who are the "we" behind the Petition?? Unless you are proud enough to identify yourself, your petition is worthless.

        Like(9)
        Dislike(10)
        • know dat says:

          corner stone... didnt you read the article?

          Like(8)
          Dislike(1)
    • And of course the petition supporting gay rights had controls and ensured legitimacy of each and every signature.

      Like(21)
      Dislike(14)
      • hmmm says:

        Yes, you had to put your full name and your working e-mail.

        It was a petition for equal rights for all.

        “Legalize Same Sex Marriage and implement a complete and full Human Rights for all Bermuda citizens & visitors.”

        Like(24)
        Dislike(10)
        • Oh yes that ensures the petition would not be compromised. By the way the same is required on this petition.

          Like(5)
          Dislike(8)
        • Black Soil says:

          Let me get this straight Larry. You want your right not to serve in the regiment observed, but you think it's cool to deny all humans the right to marry who they love? Man, you are one twisted cat!!! You honestly have NO IDEA (a) what marriage is and (b) what a human right is.

          Like(21)
          Dislike(9)
          • mj says:

            @blacksoil...Larry is married...do we now have to change the dictionaries to reflect a spoiled people who have turned to their own ways and now want legitimization for their acts which they claim to be normal? A marriage period is coming together , you can have friends be friends , but why should a union between men and men be sanctioned to give you ease of mind to have sex, it boils down to sex and we do not have to legislate that!.. If someone wants to leave property or responsibility to another there is a process of doing that without going through marriage...Originally marriage union involves an attempt at binding that union with bringing forth another to multiply...Gay rights are divisive to the family structure intended from the beginning of our time.

            Like(11)
            Dislike(12)
            • Mike Hind says:

              Why are you so obsessed with sex? That's not what this is about.
              There IS a way to leave property and responsibility to another. Marriage. Why should people be denied this?
              Is there a reason that doesn't involve religion?
              (Oh, and procreation is absolutely not a stipulation for marriage. That argument is invalid.
              And gay marriage isn't the divisive thing... You're thinking of divorce... something perfectly acceptable in our society.)

              Like(11)
              Dislike(7)
              • mj says:

                marriage is a union and procreation comes through the mariage of the seed from entering the womb of the woman it needs no further explaintion that IS a marriage , a combination of male and female produces more males and females, that is a marriage through sexual intercourse.. two males produce NOTHING from sexual intercourse.. being friends with someone is a union of choice... Hinds.. you are confused between the meaning of amrriage and what You want it to mean... WAAA waaa waa wiiii wiii stop whinning about wanting something other than what is already natural..no um not thinking of divorce if you knew my thoughts you wouldn't respond!

                Like(6)
                Dislike(12)
                • Mike Hind says:

                  More crazy talk. Procreation is absolutely not a stipulation for marriage. This entire argument is not only incorrect, it's insane.

                  And has been discussed and debunked repeatedly, yet you keep trying to bring it up.

                  Like(9)
                  Dislike(6)
          • Did you even bother to read my post? So called "family man" questioned the integrity of the online petition and my response was to point out his hypocrisy and inconsistency as it related to the previous petition.

            So you believe that ALL HUMANS HAVE THE RIGHT TO MARRY WHO THEY LOVE do you? Interesting perspective on marriage indeed. ALL HUMANS? Are you sure that is what you really believe?

            Like(3)
            Dislike(13)
            • Black Soil says:

              Unlike you Larry, you clearly believe gays are sub-human. Shame on you. And I'm curious why you are so damn proud of your bigotry. It ain't cool man!!!!

              Like(1)
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              • I do now see that the way this statement was worded could be interpreted as suggesting that gays were sub-human and for that I do apologize. That was not what I meant. The point I was trying to make was that this is not about rights for all just about rights for gays.

                Like(3)
                Dislike(2)
                • Mike Hind says:

                  Not even remotely true! Come on.
                  How is giving gays the same rights as everyone else "just about rights for gays"? Come on.

                  Like(1)
                  Dislike(2)
    • MPP says:

      So you're monitoring the back end of the site, doing all of the IP address checks, name verification and sign-time analysis?

      You know the people who are, and what their process is?

      You know that your six signatures are counted in the final tally?

      If not, then...?

      Like(3)
      Dislike(3)
    • Why? says:

      Why be so dishonest?

      Like(0)
      Dislike(1)
    • 2224 and counting. Thanks for your support.

      Like(6)
      Dislike(3)
    • LOL says:

      advanced.bm can be thanked for the quality of the website. Funny how he usually has his credit line visible but not this time.

      Like(0)
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    • Kermit says:

      So what you're telling me is that you took the time to falsify information to undermine a petition then call it out for falsified information. Pretty childish if you ask me and its signatures*.....But its none of my business though (sips tea)

      Like(2)
      Dislike(0)
  2. Come Correct says:

    ...and let the same old arguments from both sides begin. It's actually simple really.

    Like(8)
    Dislike(2)
  3. I and I says:

    As the great Malik El Shabazz said it so clearly,"In all our studies, history rewards all research". The future is only what one would like it to be,good or bad.The present is always evolving. The only thing we can learn from is the past.We must look back and see what certain words in this english language really mean before they were corrupted. Gay comes from a word meaning an extremely happy person. Marriage comes from a word meaning the promise and bond a man and woman makes to each other,each others families, friends, The Creator, and so forth. Sex means the physical act of creating offsprings, and so on and so forth.
    Read my people!!! Please.

    Like(27)
    Dislike(42)
    • Varied says:

      Um, sex doesn't necessarily equate procreation. And, when used as an argument to invalidate same sex unions, fails mightily when you consider that infertile couples can marry, for instance.

      Like(49)
      Dislike(6)
      • MPP says:

        Male-female unions, even if infertile, do ensure that if any child joins their home, by whatever means (adoption, fostering, etc), that they get what we all know children need - a mother and father.

        Like(10)
        Dislike(20)
        • CMKBda says:

          So with that logic, single parent families are not providing children with what they need? A bit close-minded, especially given the number of single parents on our island. At the end of the day, a child needs a loving home. Who cares if that home is with a mommy and a daddy, two mommies, two daddies, a granny, step-daddy, etc. There are plenty of heterosexual married couples who make sh**ty parents out there.

          Like(14)
          Dislike(3)
          • MPP says:

            I hear your sentiments but they just aren't backed up at all by child and family research. Single parent homes, adoption, remarriage etc are all loving, often heroic, responses to the breakdown of relationships/families sometimes by someone's choice and sometimes unfortunately by tragedy. But the research is clear - children raised in homes with their mother and father in a loving union have a distinct, measurable advantage.

            A union being male-female doesn't automatically make it awesome - with you on that. Marriage and family is hard work and some people are just terrible parents. Having a loving home beats not having a loving home, but "love is all you need" makes for better song lyrics than social science.

            Like(2)
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        • Sickofantz says:

          How do single parent families fit into your thinking?

          Like(1)
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          • frank says:

            let all the gays find a place in the world where they all can live happy togather but not next to me

            Like(2)
            Dislike(3)
            • C Powell says:

              Remove the word "gays" and replace with "Blacks or Jews" and you have the same ignorant thinking of the past (and some present)living amongst us today. Sad that some need to catch up to the true meaning of equality. Hypocritical at best.

              Like(7)
              Dislike(2)
        • Varied says:

          ... if the mother and father are together and both are involved in their child's upbringing. Unfortunately we have a ton of situations where a child doesn't get that. It's really more about the parents' committment and ability, not their gender, that determines if the child gets a decent upbringing.

          Like(7)
          Dislike(1)
        • Black Soil says:

          And a hundred years ago (when marriage between the races was banned) the child of a couple of opposite race would have been evidence of a crime. The notion that two females or two males would make bad parents is merely proof that your brain is limited!!

          Like(7)
          Dislike(2)
    • aceboy says:

      How do condoms fit into this definition of sex?

      Like(5)
      Dislike(0)
    • kenny says:

      you are wrong....20 years ago it was probably 90%....today 51%....and it will not take 10 more years before a gay couple brings bermuda to court over this
      VERY BASIC HUMAN RIGHT!!!!!!! BERMUDA IS TRUELY IN A DIFFERENT WORLD!!! REALLY LOL

      Argentina
      Belgium
      Brazil
      Canada
      Denmark:
      · Denmark proper
      · Greenland*
      Finland*
      France
      Iceland
      Ireland*
      Luxembourg
      Mexico:
      · CH, CA, GR, QR,
      · DF
      Netherlands:
      · Netherlands proper
      New Zealand:
      · New Zealand proper
      Norway
      Portugal
      Slovenia*
      South Africa
      Spain
      Sweden
      United Kingdom:
      · England and Wales
      · Scotland
      · Pitcairn Islands
      United States:
      · United States proper
      · GU, MP, PR, VI
      · some tribal jurisdictions
      UruguayRecognizedIsrael

      Malta

      Mexico1Netherlands:
      · Aruba, Curaçao
      and Sint Maarten2

      BERMUDA COMING SOON!!!!!!!

      Like(12)
      Dislike(10)
      • Coffee says:

        One African country with a huge Anglo population ... Go figure !

        Like(2)
        Dislike(7)
        • Mike Hind says:

          Why is that bad?

          Like(2)
          Dislike(1)
        • I guess you prefer Uganda or Nigeria where the majority black population is being encouraged to endorse legally slaughtering their fellow black citizens. That's okay as long as non gay people don't have to accept anyone different from themselves. So much for human rights. Those are only for people who don't like gays apparently.

          Like(4)
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        • Build a Better Bermuda says:

          It is a reflection of the sad legacy of European colonial influence on African culture. Homosexuality was once a tolerated and accepted practice in many African societies, but then slavery and the early European colonialism brought the homophobia and intolerance that is still rampant today.

          Like(4)
          Dislike(1)
          • Coffee says:

            Proof !

            Like(0)
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            • Mike Hind says:

              Literally spending five minutes on google, searching for "traditional acceptance of homosexuality in Africa" turns up pages and pages of articles and stories showing proof.
              It's that easy.

              Like(4)
              Dislike(0)
              • Coffee says:

                Current newspapers report that those caught practicing same sex conjugal relations have to run for their lives .

                Like(1)
                Dislike(0)
                • Zevon says:

                  And you're proud of that?

                  Like(1)
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                • Mike Hind says:

                  What does that have to do with what was being talked about.
                  Come on. At least TRY to have an honest conversation.

                  Like(0)
                  Dislike(1)
  4. Candy Korn says:

    Like I said before. Freedom for all. Why should only heterosexual people be miserable? Let'em get married too if they want. I bet if we do in 10 years they won't be referred to as gay (happy) any more.

    Like(58)
    Dislike(18)
  5. take your petition and use it as toilet paper. you have 700 so far has Mork and Mindy or Fozzie bear signed up 20 times each. BS. you have no rights to dictate how others should live life, because thats the way you see it.

    Like(86)
    Dislike(34)
  6. A former proud Bermudian says:

    I know our island is small, but should our minds reflect that?

    And to those of you signing this, think about who you're hurting. Signing this leads to a build up of hatred within families and within communities. Your children, parents, relatives, friends, the nice woman on the street you pass and exchange greetings with, could be effected by your choice to cast them out and place them as second class citizen in OUR country. This is a human rights issue. Is this no better than what ISIS does? They push homosexuals off buildings, while this petition pushes people off the rock. Both of these instances are examples persecution and radicalism.

    Maybe the change we chant for begins with how we treat each other. A change in human rights. Maybe that's the first step to becoming a Bermuda we once were. A Bermuda we can be proud of again.

    Like(58)
    Dislike(36)
    • Johnny says:

      It's my human right to believe what I want to. If I am against something, I have a right to not support it.

      Like(29)
      Dislike(1)
      • hmmm says:

        Do you have a right to attack those that think differently to you?

        Like(7)
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        • impressive. says:

          Certainly not, but where is he attaching anyone?.. I see him being attacked for stating his views, but I don't see him attacking.

          Like(7)
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          • human rights for all says:

            Maintaining the laws as they are, to favour only heterosexuals, is a form of attack and injustice upon others who are not.

            Like(9)
            Dislike(7)
      • Sickofantz says:

        Seriously Johnny how does this change your life? Frankly if it was challenged in the European Courts of Human rights then Bermuda would lose anyway

        Like(3)
        Dislike(0)
  7. Kevin says:

    simple those who sign the petition don't belong in today's society Antarctica is open for you to populate please make your way

    Like(37)
    Dislike(55)
    • Johnny says:

      Why should the normal people have to leave? Wouldn't it be easier for the minority in this situation to leave?

      Like(15)
      Dislike(13)
      • Anbu says:

        You're the minority. So please. Pack up and leave

        Like(4)
        Dislike(7)
      • Longtail says:

        Normal people support human rights for all Johnny. It is the others that Kevin is suggesting should leave......

        Like(3)
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      • Mike Hind says:

        Are you sure that attacking minorities is the way to go?

        Like(2)
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    • impressive. says:

      So much for Democracy, just eliminate everyone who doesn't think like you. Way to go

      Like(3)
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      • Zevon says:

        And your lot want to eliminate gays. Way to go.

        Like(0)
        Dislike(0)
  8. 32n64w says:

    If Joseph Furbert and the Cornerstone Bible Fellowship (the domain's registrant) are against same sex marriage that's entirely their choice. No one is forcing them to officiate a wwdding ceremony, however, this issue is a legal matter not a religious one.

    Like(55)
    Dislike(27)
    • Build a Better Bermuda says:

      At one time, people used religion to justify the continuation of slavery, later if was used to justify segregation... evidently some people don't learn from history.

      Like(52)
      Dislike(8)
      • Spit Bouy says:

        @ Build a Better Bermuda,

        Yup, spot on!

        Like(7)
        Dislike(0)
      • MPP says:

        Because every idea "religious people" came up with was terrible, like universities, many programs provide medical aid to the poor, wide and varied forms of charity work, etc.

        Let's not forget that "religious people" have been on both sides of the issues you mention, and fought against those injustices. Dr Martin Luther King, anyone?

        If you don't like the idea, argue against the idea, not who you think the people bringing the idea are. And if you're gonna attack the people and not the idea, at least be accurate.

        Like(4)
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        • Build a Better Bermuda says:

          In your desperation for justification you only read what you wished of my statement. Did I fault religion for those examples, no, the fault lay with the people who use religion as justification for the degradation of others. As with most issues, the fault lies in humanity and those who lack the strength to rise above or just flat out embrace the worst of it.

          Like(4)
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          • MPP says:

            Looks like I did misinterpret your post and read more into it than you meant.

            My apologies.

            Like(3)
            Dislike(0)
        • Mike Hind says:

          Nice straw man.

          Why can't you use honest arguments to make your point?

          Like(1)
          Dislike(1)
    • MPP says:

      What if you don't believe that same sex marriage should be legal? Are you allowed to champion that belief or only beliefs that agree with yours?

      Like(5)
      Dislike(1)
      • Peace says:

        Spread the word all you want, don't force it on others.

        Like(2)
        Dislike(1)
      • Mike Hind says:

        You're allowed to champion it.

        And we're allowed to point out what a bigoted, hateful, hypocritical cause it is that you're championing.

        Like(6)
        Dislike(3)
        • impressive. says:

          Mike Hind, please,, Everyone is entitled to an opinion... Remember we used to argue over and over about how Craig Cannonier wasn't up to being premier. You had an opinion and I had an opinion, I don't want to blow my own horn and say that my opinion was proven closer to the truth, but I respected your opinion, and I didn't go around calling you childish names or placing labels on you because you believed something that I thought was out right foolish.. I can see that this is an issue that you are very passionate about and kudos to you, but you have to understand that many people don't see the world like that.. If doesn't make them hateful.

          Like(8)
          Dislike(1)
          • Mike Hind says:

            Never said people weren't entitled to their opinion. In fact, I said exactly the opposite.
            The rest of your post about cannoneer is gibberish.

            We're not talking about opinions. People can have their opinions. That's fine ( and, as I said, others can have theirs and are allowed to speak out against those opinions...).
            What we're talking about is the denial of rights and privileges afforded to the rest of us and the unfairness of the basis of that denial. I have yet to hear an opposition to marriage equality that didn't involve religion. What frustrates is that, in ANY other case, the same people would be denouncing people being forced to obey the rules of someone else's religion, or at least someone else's take on that religion and it's rules, but in this case, folks will stoop to truly nasty depths to rationalize forcing others to obey their take on their personal choice of religion.

            I don't have a problem with different opinions, as long as people are honest about it.
            Folks simple are not honest about this and it is hurting people. That's what I have a problem with.

            Was that clear enough?

            Like(6)
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          • MPP says:

            "impressive":

            Kudos on your post and I'm sorry that your clear, even statement went so unappreciated.

            Like(0)
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            • Mike Hind says:

              I addressed his point. It's interesting that you don't read or address anything that shows your attempt at a point to be incorrect. Why is that?

              Like(0)
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      • Build a Better Bermuda says:

        Yes you are, but in democracy, does it make you right to deny others equal rights. The fundamental foundation of democracy is to provide and protect the rights of the people equally, if you don't agree with that, then you don't want a democracy and don't believe in freedom.

        Like(0)
        Dislike(0)
  9. Lois Frederick says:

    I will not be signing this petition either. Live and let live.

    Like(42)
    Dislike(22)
  10. C James says:

    If they were arguing on something other than religious grounds then I might give them a minute of my time. Well a few seconds anyway.

    Like(21)
    Dislike(15)
  11. Me says:

    The type of people signing this should save their data on their prepaid sall phones for job searching

    Like(5)
    Dislike(29)
    • Yes they should save that data on their "sall" phones. It appears that you meant to use the word sell yet even that was wrong.

      Like(2)
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      • Mike Hind says:

        Yes. Their "sell" phones.

        Psst! If you're going to correct someone, make sure your correction is right.

        It's cel or cell, not "sell"...

        Like(1)
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        • Onion Soup says:

          Mike, if you're going to be a pedant, at least get it right. It's "cell". A "cel" is something quite different in that it is the short term for celluloid, is a transparent sheet on which objects are drawn or painted for traditional animation.

          Like(0)
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          • Mike Hind says:

            Um.. Did you not see where I used the word "cell"?
            And cel phone is and has been used.

            Funny how you didn't post to the person who said it was "sell". What's up with that?

            Like(1)
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        • This one went right over your head Mike.

          Like(0)
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  12. Peace says:

    A bunch of people can just sit there and enter random name combinations into the petition, this is ridiculous. At least have a simple email verification system to make it a little more challenging. It is not difficult. I bet my name is on that already, even though I am against the petition.

    You might as well grab a list of names from off the internet and hand that in, it will be quicker.

    Like(25)
    Dislike(14)
    • sage says:

      Was this the sentiment concerning the pro SSM petition presented to government? Both are redundant then.

      Like(6)
      Dislike(1)
      • Exactly!

        Like(2)
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      • Peace says:

        If they can sit there and enter names, then it is not a petition and both are redundant. I would suspect change.org, which has processed about 15,000 petitions, would have more checks than a site that was put together for one petition.

        Like(2)
        Dislike(0)
  13. Will says:

    Thirty years...just thirty years max and these backwards thinking people will have passed. We can then move forward with so many things.

    Like(24)
    Dislike(25)
    • Turbot says:

      Nice,
      Unfortunately new backwards thinking people will have taken their place.
      There will always be a need to fight for people's freedom.

      Like(2)
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    • Crazy says:

      The only person entering the back door is you Will.

      Like(2)
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  14. sebring says:

    a monkey can sign that

    Like(17)
    Dislike(14)
  15. Jennifer says:

    I signed it.

    Like(23)
    Dislike(29)
    • af87 says:

      I did too! 4 times! Once as Eatyourkids. I hope they enjoy the false sense of security this petition gives them ROFL

      Like(15)
      Dislike(13)
    • Sage says:

      So did the Dali Lama!

      Like(1)
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  16. Still Laughing says:

    And THIS is why we cannot progress as a country. Hateful and small minded people who rely on those who have no idea how to learn for themselves make an issue out of nothing. I expected more from my fellow Bermudians but I guess I expected too much. Sad and embarrassing.

    Like(32)
    Dislike(29)
  17. NT says:

    We should create a petition opposing adultery, out of wedlock children and having multiple children with multiple partners, drinking alcohol and doing drugs. I have a funny feelings over half the members of Cornerstone Bible Fellowship would be guilty of the things I just listed. The hypocrisy of the Christian population in Bermuda is truly outrageous. What a bunch of fools.

    Like(80)
    Dislike(34)
    • MPP says:

      For the sake of argument, let's say I was an alcoholic, drug addicted man with children all over the place with different women and I repeatedly cheated on my wife.

      Does that mean that I'm a hypocrite for believing that our LAWS shouldn't be adjusted to redefine what a marriage is?

      Like(5)
      Dislike(4)
      • NT says:

        Only a stupid Christian would ask such a question. What defines a marriage? Like you said, it's the law. It's a legal document, not a religious one which means it can be changed like any other. If it was solely based on your silly religion you wouldn't need to go register with the government now would you? Why not just get hitched in your church and leave it at that? Funny enough the person behind this hate filled petition should look in their own inner circle and fix those sinners closest to them. Pop one, pop two, not a ring in sight.

        Like(3)
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        • MPP says:

          You've made several inaccurate assumptions about what I think, with a little name-calling.

          However, none of what you wrote explains why you think I don't have a right to have a different stance on this issue than you do. Who's allowed to disagree with you?

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          • NT says:

            No I haven't. Your silly comment contradicts itself. It is actually quite funny. If its the law why can't it be changed? That same bible you are hiding behind and using as justification for your ignorance would be used in the same matter to enslave you. Any comment on that or are you going to dodge that question too?

            The bottom line is YOUR stance does not matter. No human should be denied any rights based on what YOU think. Get over it. Thats like telling a racist white person they have the right to own slaves because in their mind its the right way. Sorry life doesn't work like that anymore. Gay marriage will have zero affect on your life.

            Like(3)
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          • Ed Case says:

            In that case mpp then don't marry anyone of the same sex. Problem solved.

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      • Mike Hind says:

        Yes.

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      • Mike Hind says:

        Unjust laws should always be changed.

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  18. Mike Hind says:

    Cue the usual specious arguments about procreation and "unnatural" and "We weren't designed" and the bible verses...
    And cue the rest of us asking why we should be forced to follow the rules of someone else's personal choice of religions...

    And then cue the exodus of "righteous" people defending their bigotry when called on it, running away like cowards when asked simple questions.

    It'll be par for the course.

    Like(37)
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    • MPP says:

      "And cue the rest of us asking why we should be forced to follow the rules of someone else's personal choice of religions..."

      And this only applies in one direction, I gather...

      Like(2)
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      • Mike Hind says:

        Nope. No one on the pro marriage equality side is asking anyone to follow the rules of any religion. Your argument is invalid.

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        • MPP says:

          A religion is one of several things that informs someone's view of reality; their worldview. Your view of reality doesn't include any overt religious influence, which I don't necessarily take issue with.

          You do believe, however, that you shouldn't be forced to follow the rules of a worldview you disagree with... while you're forcing your worldview on people who disagree with you.

          I'm not mad at your for that. Just call a spade a spade and recognize that it goes both ways.

          Like(1)
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          • Mike Hind says:

            No. It doesn't. Your rationalization is based on flawed logic and a specious argument.

            No one is forcing anything on anyone. Taking away someone's "right" to discriminate isn't forcing someone to do something. Refusing people rights, based on your personal choice of religion, is.
            There is a massive difference, one which you continuously ignore. It is simply not equivalent.

            Like(5)
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            • brain drain says:

              Hit the nail on the head here Mike...which will be followed by silence from MPP.

              Disagree all you wish but government passing a law isn't taking anything away from you, they are bringing equality to others. If that equality bothers you then so be it but not a thing has been taken from you.

              Like(4)
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            • MPP says:

              I'm not asking you to like my view. Or even respect it, at this stage.

              But if you can't at least acknowledge that we both have a view about what our laws should say, and that we both want our view to prevail, then you want your view forced upon me to the same extent that you think I want mine forced upon you.

              Such is the nature of a disagreement like this.

              If you can't get that far, I know you're not even interested in an honest discussion, which would be good to know.

              Like(1)
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              • Mike Hind says:

                I have said, repeatedly, in life and on this page, that people are entitled to their view and their opinion.
                This post is a complete misrepresentation of my position and an intentional distraction from the topic.

                If you want an honest discussion, start with yourself. I've never been anything but.
                Ignoring what I say in order to push your false narrative is dishonest.

                Like(1)
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              • brain drain says:

                I'm sure there are many things we'd disagree on and that dialogue is important but trying to make two separate issues into one is disingenuous.

                Your view leads to fewer freedoms for a group of people. My view doesn't.

                There was a time in many places when segregation of races was legal - i'm sure many argued to keep it just that way. I'm just gad government chose not to in the end, maybe you'd prefer we kept it the same.

                Like(1)
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  19. Sage says:

    How about we have a petition to get rid of all the idiots who started this one. Smells like Peoples Campaign.

    Like(10)
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  20. Quinton Berkley Butterfield says:

    Here is another petition to sign:

    http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/hypocrisy

    Like(20)
    Dislike(10)
  21. Quinton Berkley Butterfield says:

    Wow, you can sign this multiple times, so how is this a valid representation if they can just get people to put in fake signatures. The count is not a true representation and there is no way to verify. How deceitful and how low will this people sink?

    Like(5)
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  22. change of energy says:

    i wish they would put their energy into getting a petition signed about changing the laws on the harsh crimes these guys are out here committing instead of getting people sign a petition against love and marriage. give people longer time in jail and a no tolerance law on guns and drunk driving. another young person killed and we are here stressing over same sex marriages. at least they are not out here killing and judging each other.

    Like(4)
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  23. Zevon says:

    It's amazing how nasty those bible thumpers can be.

    Like(16)
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  24. Tony Brannon says:

    The petition is reopened.....
    https://www.change.org/p/the-bermuda-government-legalize-same-sex-marriage-and-implement-complete-and-full-human-rights-for-all-bermuda-citizens-visitors

    To deny SAME LOVE is ignorance of the highest order. It is an affront to Human Rights.

    Same Sex Marriage is not asking for any church to conduct a marriage ceremony between two people of the same sex. Why would anyone that in a place that doesn't want to acknowledge their love?

    We simply want the state / Government of Bermuda to change the law so that same sex couples can marry in Bermuda, be it on a pink beach, a home, a hotel or anywhere that welcomes their love.

    Like(19)
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    • sage says:

      People being arrested, criminalized, imprisoned, made unemployable, robbed and marginalized for ganja is a more urgent human rights atrocity which although not as popular needs addressing.

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      • Zevon says:

        Ganja is a choice. They could stop, amd never have those problems.

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      • Mike Hind says:

        Maybe so... But that doesn't mean this shouldn't be addressed.

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  25. Ed Case says:

    Oh please! Your only argument is that God wants it that way. Really? Give me a real argument based on something real not you imaginary God.

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  26. Ed Case says:

    Haha I just signed as North West, Michael Donkey, and Jonny Rockets.

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  27. Black str8 pride says:

    Homosexuality has been pushed onto blacks ever since slavery from their paedophilic slave owners people like christpher columbus another fraud who did not discover america if we bermudians follow this we are done for the creator strongly condemns homosexuality it has nothing to do with religion bt the words of god i am no talking no religion i am talking GOD we as a people should sllow a man to be with a man it is a filthy act i have no hate towards gays but their choice of lyfestyle is filthy and GOD says it is he still loves you bt the filth is filth point blank if i am a theif u would tell me i am wrong right GOD says do not steal right so GOD says do not lay your own it is wrong so come on people lets do what GOD wants not no church or pastor or anyone of multiple religions no to homosexuality if you do research actual research you can learn how during slavery it was vehemently pushed onto black males as a form to break us and our family unit because the black family is what they do not want rising and evolving to the place that we are meant for we blacks are the originals of the world lets not let them eridicate us as they have planened for hundreds of years so blacks especialy should be againgst this filfthy lyfestyle and i know some whites will take offence but u cant keep it real without offending people who have been brainwashed and conditioned to fall right into this master scheme of madness planned for us in well in advance in our knowledge of it educate yourself and research slavery and homosexuality then you may not wana attact me by saying people like me should leave this rock that my ancestors never asked to be bought to from the start this is ours (blacks) we were uprooted from original place you bought us here so now we the ancestors of the people that built all of this claim it as ours so we will not leave for you and your filfth

    Like(10)
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    • asampson says:

      You against punctuation too?

      Like(18)
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    • Anbu says:

      Ok kimathi. Lmfao. U do know that Jesus, aka GOD hung out with a prostitute and 12 dudes right? Seems a little suspect to me but hey thats just an opinion and u know how that goes. U post stinks of hatred. Talk about u dont hate gays? Smh i suggest u reread ur own post

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      • mj says:

        @anbu...who told you jesus is aka GOD? my people are destroyed for LACK of knowledge..hosea 4:6. Joel 13:4.

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    • Mike Hind says:

      So, stay and accept that other people don't believe the same thing as you. Easy peasy.

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    • Ed Case says:

      Black and straight I'd suggest that you simply don't attempt to have sexual relations with a person the same sex. That should cure it for you.

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    • hmmm says:

      Same sex marriage was rife throughout the African continent history. Know your history before spouting off.

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    • Sickofantz says:

      I really and sincerely hope that you are getting the help that you need.

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    • Honked says:

      Black Str8 you and the idiot genie can go crawl back under whatever rock you slithered out from under.. Total imbeciles you and the dopey genie are...

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  28. Lalalala says:

    Do these people not know there is a difference between "holy matrimony,” – sanctioned by God – and "marriage” – a legal union regulated and licensed. One does not have to lose or deny his religious beliefs about what constitutes holy matrimony while recognizing and accepting the legality of a same-sex marriage.

    I find it amusing that those opposed to same sex marriage always confuse the sacrament of holly matrimony with marriage. A priest (or minister) can perform the act of holy matrimony however, if he (or she) is not licensed then the couple are not married and have no legal rights..

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  29. Sandgrownan says:

    Christ, what a$$holes.

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  30. Gombey Liberation Partier says:

    I say outlaw Adultery (7th Commandment) and more importantly...divorce. That will ensure the state of marriage and the family. Without an "out" both persons will have to give serious thought into entering an institution that they can never get out of...as was intended.

    And getting caught committing adultery inside marriage should result in the death penalty, in accordance with the laws of the Bible. Then people will have a different and perhaps more real perspective on marriage. I await that petition.

    Like(13)
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    • Adultery is already outlawed.

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      • Gombey Liberation Partier says:

        "Outlawed" in Bermuda Law? Really? I know it comes under the Matrimonial Causes Act 1974 as a reason to petition for Divorce but not sure it's illegal to commit adultery...other than in the Bible.

        Like(1)
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        • Zevon says:

          Maybe he's talking about the bit ib the bible where adulterers should be stoned to desth. Maybe he wants that as well.

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      • Michael says:

        Reference?

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      • Zevon says:

        The **** some people say.

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  31. Jennifer says:

    This is a religious petition supporting the denial of human rights. No one has the right to dictate this. We are all humans. It's about love and acceptance. Plain and simple.

    Like(14)
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  32. Why says:

    This really saddens me. How is it that those who support gay marriage have the right to their opinion, have their own petition, and conferences about why it should be accepted. But the moment anyone else has an opinion they are ridiculed and bashed. I think it is very disrespectful. As a christian and young person growing up in Bermuda I think it is sad that people have such distaste for anyone who shares opposing beliefs. Everyone has a right to support what they believe to be right, whether or not you agree or disagree is your prerogative. I believe that marriage should be between a man and a woman and that union should be special. If two gay individuals choose to be together why can't they call it something else. Why try to break down a union built on biblical principle, especially since the bible disagrees with the sin which you choose to do. If I were you I would want to create another union but why try to call it marriage.
    Praying for our island.

    Like(28)
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    • totally agree.... says:

      Why is it that if you don't agree with the whole gay lifestyle you're ridiculed and hated by those who agree with it? Aren't you all doing the same thing you're fighting against? Makes no sense to me. I don't have to agree with your lifestyle just like you don't agree with mine.

      Like(4)
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      • Peace says:

        No-one cares if you dislike their lifestyle! The ridicule comes from individuals actively supporting the oppression of their lifestyle. Just let them be for goodness sake.

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      • Mike Hind says:

        It's not the disagreement, it's the refusal of equal rights and privileges that folks have a problem with.
        And when your position is ridiculous, as this one is, evidenced by the weak, dishonest arguments that keep getting easily debunked, it, literally, is up for ridicule.
        What rights and privileges are you being denied by other people disagreeing with your lifestyle?

        See the difference?

        Like(3)
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    • Pamela says:

      Why shouldn't they be able to call it a marriage? If the word is all that makes your marriage special then divorce will surely follow. Not allowed in the christian bible but very popular amongst christians non the less.
      The word does not belong to the religious. It has been and continues to be used to describe the joining of two or more things. Flavours for example. Marriage existed long before the modern day religious arrived. The religious like to commandeer things, claim them as their own and then try to imposed their belief in their own definitions on every one else. Christmas sound familiar. Usurped by the religious for their own ends.
      No one is saying you have to approve of homosexuality or even accept it in your personal life. Same sex marriage will have absolutely zero effect on you, your beliefs or your marriages. Whereas if you succeed, your fellow Bermudians, real human beings, will be and are being, adversely affected. Denying human rights for what ever reason, always has a negative effect.

      Like(3)
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    • Mike Hind says:

      Why does the bible have anything to do with someone's personal relationship with someone else, unless they choose to allow it to?
      What does the bible have to do with the subject of the legal construct of marriage?

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    • Jennifer says:

      Excellent.

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    • Mary says:

      Be better of dealing with the killing of young males and gun violence than trying to block folks rights to love each other , I mean talk about head in the clouds

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    • Varied says:

      Because marriage, as far as the law is concerned, doesn't require any religious affirmation. Buddhists can marry, atheists can marry, people can go Registrar General, fill out paperwork, and done deal.

      Using religion as an argument for denying marriage rights to same gender couples, is flawed.

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    • Warwick Lizard says:

      Why, Your point is well made and I ask this without ridicule or bashing. As a Christian, do you recognize marriage between Muslims, Jews, Hindus etc.?

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      • Why says:

        Yes I recognize that marriage. Marriage is a holy union between a man and a woman. We as Christians are not a perfect people but yet sinners striving to live as Jesus did. I am a firm believer of the bible and sometimes my beliefs will clash with others. But we have been called to live separate from the world. I read a lot of people saying stop using your religion. We aren't using religion, it's about a relationship with the Lord. It's not about 'love is love', God is love! This world has things confused.

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        • Zevon says:

          Marriage has absolutely nothing to do with "the lord". Churches can control weddings, but they should have no input over who should be married.

          Some churches won't do a wedding for a divorced couple. But that couple can still legally marry. The church can't stop them being married. This is the same thing.

          Like(5)
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  33. Ash says:

    Let's have a look at the countries that do not oppose same sex marriage: Argentina, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Denmark, Finland, France, Iceland, Ireland, Luxembourg, Mexico, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, Slovenia, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, UK, US, Uruguay, Israel, Malta and Mexico.
    You know who we're with? Third world countries....Just saying. They have an excuse for their ignorance, we don't.

    Like(21)
    Dislike(7)
  34. thomas says:

    Women once we're not treated equal.not allowed to vote or own property.

    There was a time so recent that a person of color was not treated equal.

    Why are we so hung up on not allowing the same rights others fought so hard to get and deserve as human beings.

    Wake up Bermuda

    Like(20)
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  35. BDA Friend says:

    Well I believe in the equality of all humans and their right to form legal unions and families of their own. We must support basic human rights for all.

    Time to stop their hating and reconcile with their own brothers and sisters in common values.

    Like(11)
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  36. Sincerious says:

    It is typical of our inability to accept that there are views different to our own. Virtually every comment contains the same nasty ,ignorant, hypocritical language that is being stated of the opposite view. A person has a right to express views both pro and against any topic and should do so without bullying ,attacking words and sometimes actions.
    If we cannot express differing views without relying on insults and demeaning slurs then in my view we have no confidence in the reasoning we use to express our position.

    Like(13)
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    • Mike Hind says:

      Yes, but only one side is advocating the denial of rights and privileges to a group of people, based on a personal choice of religion. The other is advocating equal rights and privileges.

      There isn't equivalence.

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      • MPP says:

        "Everbody is allowed to have their view but can't you see that my view is better than theirs?"

        You still don't see it.

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        • Mike Hind says:

          Sigh...

          Of course I think my view is better. That's why I made it my view!
          Don't you think yours is better than mine?

          You seem so desperate to denounce me with ad hominems, they've stopped making sense.
          How about addressing the points I make, rather than this feeble false narrative of "you don't respect my viewpoint" you're trying to push? It's getting boring and nobody is buying it.

          Like(1)
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          • MPP says:

            I don't think you're sure what an ad hominem attack is.

            You read a post like "hey guys, we should respect each other's right to express opposing views without being nasty" and respond with "yeah, but my view is better though."

            You really don't see that doesn't follow?

            Like(0)
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            • Mike Hind says:

              But that's not what I said. At all.

              Seriously... why can't you be honest with this? Why are you rewriting the things that I said?

              My response to "we should respect each other's right to express opposing views without being nasty" was "Nobody is saying you don't have a right to express your views. It's not about the view, it's about the denial of rights. ", but you ignored that to push this narrative. And are continuing to do so.

              Please try honesty. I'm begging.

              Like(2)
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    • One love says:

      One groups view is to support people in their love.
      The other group are out to suppress it which, in my view, is tantamount to hate.

      Like(10)
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  37. Ed Case says:

    The churches already have many reasons they won't marry people so this will be just one more. That should not stop the legalization of SSM though. I mean what does it have to do with God?

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  38. Mike says:

    It is appropriate the the word "love" is no where to be found in this petition.

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  39. Tony Brannon says:

    So our society trusts its moral integrity to the procreation of creatures that believe that love is a privilege and not a right for all human beings unconditionally? Since when is morality not a virtue that each one of us cultivates inside his/her soul, instead it belongs exclusively to a man and a woman as a unit? How can somebody be moral without embracing one idea of love that is inclusive and not selective? How can these people base their convictions on the words of God (who after all is often described as "pure love"), while their vision is clearly the result of their own misery, suspicion and fear? Why love cannot be shared and enjoyed by all? Is there any meaning left for love if it is deprived of acceptance, empathy and inclusion?

    Some people disguised as the Truth holders have simply no room for Love in their heart...

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    • Yes Tony the voice of morality.

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    • We the People (1st!!) says:

      Sorry, that is utter rubbish. You have no idea what you're talking about.

      Hmmm...

      "....a right for all human beings unconditionally" - Unconditionally? Think about that comment.

      "How can these people base their convictions on the words of God (who after all is often described as "pure love"), while their vision is clearly the result of their own misery, suspicion and fear?" Own misery? Suspicion? Fear? - Nope, you're wrong.

      Why love cannot be shared and enjoyed by all? - What kind of love you're talking about? - The love between a brother and sister, the love between a man and three sisters, the love between a man and his dog (because animals do 'love), the love between a grown man and multiple consenting teenage girls such as a polygamist culture. What kind of love should be 'enjoyed' by all?

      "love" is not the moral issue here, sexuality is. So at the end of the day, same-sex is immoral, therefore, wrong.

      Like(7)
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      • Mike Hind says:

        Re: your last line... No. It's not.

        Like(3)
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        • We the People (1st!!) says:

          Maybe not based on your standards. You being an atheist, how do you determine morality. What is your right and wrong based on?

          I assume your view is that, there is no boundary for sexual behavior.

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          • Mike Hind says:

            Easy. One of the many things I base my morality on is "does it harm someone?"
            Not a bad place to start.

            Let's throw that at sexual behavior... Does being gay harm anyone? Nope. Does gay sex, which you seem obsessed with, harm anyone? Nope. Will marriage equality harm anyone? Nope.

            Can your position stand up to the same scrutiny?

            Also... Why is what someone else does any of your business? Why should your view of someone's sex life have ANY effect on how they live their life?
            Would you be ok with someone else's views on YOUR sex life having an effect on how you live your life?

            Like(7)
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            • We the People (1st!!) says:

              Morality based on the notion "does it harm someone" has so many holes in that logic. A very big hole.

              So using your logic, you're saying, that adultery would be okay as long as the other person doesn't find out. If they never find out, they don't know, it doesn't harm them.

              If a 15 year old boy who's birthday is today making him 16, the legal age of consent, has sexual relations with his girlfriend who is still 15 years old but her birthday is tomorrow, can still get in trouble with the law. She consented, but because she is not 16, the legal age, he goes down as a pedophile for the rest of his life. Why? Who does that harm? But there is a law against it. That same couple married and has been married for 22 years. Saw this on tv. But he has to keep registering as a pedophile. Who did that harm.

              Smoking weed in your own house for personal use - who does that harm. Yet there is a law against that. A law that has resulted in so many of young black men being sent to prison. Who does that harm?

              What is your definition of harm?

              So then is it okay for people to lie as long as others don’t find out about it and there is no physical or emotional harm incurred by anyone? No harm done by a little 'white' lie, right. So lying is okay as long as it doesn't harm anyone.

              I got so much more on this but in might take up an entire page on bernews.

              Does being gay harm anyone? Yeah it does, it can harm the very person who is gay and his/her partner. Look at the statistical facts on the increased risk of gays. They are not my studies but reputable scientific facts.

              It harms families. When they show a gay couple on tv or teach it in school, it is being forced upon, even against the majority of the belief of society as it being morally, spiritually, emotionally wrong. It is being forced. You want prayer and religious sacraments out of society but at the same time forcing your immoral behaviour on society. It is emotionally and morally harming to society as a whole that reject it.

              It has already harmed a lot of people. If you're in a public spotlight or speak out publicly against homosexuality because it goes against your morals, your own beliefs you can lose your job. That is harmful to the person financially, emotionally, socially, could be physically. A sportscaster can say, 'I do not personally believe homosexuality is morally right, but I don't have anything against the homosexual,' can still get fired from his job. Really? I guess that form of harm is okay because its against someone who doesn't support it. Is that not harm. Being fired for no reason, free speech?

              I'm not going to answer the rest of your questions now because I feel like I can type all night. If you look at the stages of the 'fall of a nation or empire' one of the reasons why these nations and empires fall is because of the very standpoint/logic you use in your arguments.

              Mike you may have good intentions, but your logic is very flawed at it's core.

              Like(6)
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              • Mike Hind says:

                Um. No. Your logic is the one that is flawed.

                There's a lot of stuff in here that is based on flawed logic.

                Adultery - not against the law, so not part of the conversation.

                Paedophilia - not part of this conversation, but I'll address your point. The age of consent was chosen as a general time that folks thought would be around where kids were finally grown up enough, physically and emotionally, to make that judgement. It's not perfect. The example you cited is absolutely unfair, but is in the vast minority of cased of paedophilia. One example does not a rule make.

                Marijuana - You're absolutely right. This is why I've spoken out against that unjust law, too. I'm against the criminalization of marijuana. It should be changed, just like THIS unjust law should be changed.

                Lying - as with many things, it's a "shades of grey" matter. Sometimes...

                Look. You're focused on "what if it doesn't harm someone?"... that's not the point. It's "does it have the potential to do so?" that I base it on. Do you get it? I don't look for excuses or ways to get out of doing it, I look at things, in this one example of things I base my moral code on, as "Can this hurt someone?", not "If no one finds out, can I get away with it?" Get it?
                I know you have a vested interest in not understanding what I'm saying and in trying to punch holes in things, but at least TRY to see what I'm saying?

                "Look at the statistical facts on the increased risk of gays."
                Risk of what? You're going to have to back that up or at least explain more.
                What reputable scientific facts? Please back up that claim with elucidation and evidence.

                Your next one is a doozy. How is showing two people in love, or teaching that it's ok (something which, by the way, actually saves lives and, thus, causes LESS harm. Do some research on suicide rates among LGBT young people.) harming anyone? No one is stopping you from having your morals or your spirituality. No one is harming your faith by showing gay folks on tv.
                And "You want prayer and religious sacraments out of society..." is completely false. That is an outright lie that you have made up. Not once have I ever said that or anything like that. I have, in fact, said exactly the opposite. You posting this shows that you do, in fact, have no interest in what I'm actually saying and are just making up a whole new reality to fit your narrative. Sorry, but that is unfair.
                and if you're going to say "It is emotionally and morally harming to society as a whole that reject it.", you have to explain how. You haven't. Just saying it doesn't make it true.

                As for your example of people losing their jobs? Hate speech is not covered by free speech. Here's the thing. Folks are still allowed to say those things. They just have to live with the repercussions. Free speech doesn't mean that other people aren't allowed to disagree with you.
                What kills me is that you're complaining about someone being "harmed" for speaking out against someone, yet support legislation that is actively harming people by refusing them rights. It's insane.

                I've addressed all your points, useless as that is, as you won't actually read what I said, you'll just cherry pick and try to find something to denounce.

                If you're going to continue this conversation, may I ask... no, beg... you to try doing so with some honesty and integrity?

                Thanks.

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                • We the People (1st!!) says:

                  What.

                  You said you base morality on ""does it harm someone."

                  Adultery is part of the conversion - Doesn't matter if it is against the law or not. Morality deals with RIGHT OR WRONG....

                  Based on what you said "does it harm someone." and my example - Is it RIGHT or WRONG. Simple question. No grey blurred lines there Mike. Is it RIGHT or WRONG if it doesn't harm anyone?

                  Paedophilia - I didn't need your long answer on this. I want to know based on your standard or guidepost "does it harm someone" given the example I used is it RIGHT or WRONG.

                  Lying - There is no shade of grey here....Is it RIGHT or WRONG to lie about anything if it doesn't harm anybody. Again based on "does it harm someone."

                  My apologies when I mentioned "You want prayer and religious sacraments out of society." The "YOU" wasn't directed as you individually, so I see how that could have come across." The you was meant has a broader group of people that do not believe in a deity or those or support same-sex and vehemently attack religion"

                  You said "You posting this shows that you do, in fact, have no interest in what I'm actually saying and are just making up a whole new reality to fit your narrative. Sorry, but that is unfair. " That is not true. Simply because the You was taken the wrong way. Again, the you wasn't directed at you as explained above. You know I have never 'making things up" to fit "my" narrative in ALL of our conversations. Come on Mike, be fair here.

                  Lastly, I am not complaining about someone losing their job. I am asking based on "does it harm someone" is it RIGHT or WRONG for someone to lose their job simply because they don't support a lifestyle that goes against their morals. For being asked" Do you support the homosexual lifestyle" the person replied No, I do not. I have nothing against them, personally, I do not support the lifestyle" You're saying this is a hate speech???. Was it RIGHT or Wrong to fire him based on "does it harm someone." There was no hate in that comment what so ever.

                  .... try doing so with some honesty and integrity? I have been doing that all this time. It is you my friend that hasn't.

                  You know full well the examples I gave was asking you directly is it RIGHT or WRONG based on your statement: "Easy. One of the many things I base my morality on is "does it harm someone?"

                  You quickly dismissed the Adultery example - I didn't ask if it was okay legally. I am asking Right or Wrong. Come on Mike you knew this. You be fair.

                  Go through my comments, all of them if you have time, on this post on others. I have been very consistent and fair. Never used a bible verse, you don't even know my religion or even if I am religious, but it seems like you are not being fair simply because I disagree with you.

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                  • Mike Hind says:

                    I responded to this entire post. Please read. It's about whether it CAN cause harm, not whether you can get away with it. I already addressed this. As for the sportscaster, I don't recall that exact situation. Can you please put a link to it?

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                    • We the People (1st!!) says:

                      "It's about whether it CAN cause harm," I never said anything about "whether you can get away with it."

                      A lot of good things can cause harm. Sex can cause harm. Same-sex can cause harm to the individuals. Good things can cause harm. Just eating food can cause harm...playing sports (boxing) two humans going against each other physically CAN cause harm.

                      Lying CAN cause harm but you said - "shades of grey."

                      You did not respond to my main question. Is it Right or Wrong? All of the examples I mentioned can CAUSE harm. All of them but you said its "shades of grey." It's either right or wrong.

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                    • Mike Hind says:

                      How can "same-sex cause harm to the individuals"?

                      And the rest of this post is just semantics games that I'm not interested in playing.

                      I've answered your questions. You keep moving the goalposts 'cuz you don't like the answers.

                      I know you don't want marriage equality, but dishonest, specious, silly rationalizations are just not necessary.
                      Come on.

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                  • Mike Hind says:

                    Any chance of elucidation on the risks of being gay that you mentioned?

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                    • We the People (1st!!) says:

                      Look it up for yourself...

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                    • Mike Hind says:

                      I can't because you were WAY too vague about exactly what risks you were talking about.

                      Add to that, there's a burden of proof thing.
                      If you're going to make a claim, like "Look at the statistical facts on the increased risk of gays." the obligation to prove it is on you.

                      If not, we can simply dismiss your claim as false and a lie.

                      Is that what you want?

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                • MPP says:

                  MH - I appreciate you laying out your thoughts. It's good to get a fuller picture of where you're coming from.

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          • Zevon says:

            In my opinion many atheists have far superior morals to religeous bigots.

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            • We the People (1st!!) says:

              Define bigot - a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions.

              Key word is opinions. I think people are very tolerant to people holding different opinions. Im not religious but believe in a God. I'm tolerant to Mike's opinions. I have told him on another post I even respect his opinions.

              What people don't realise is that we don't have to tolerate someone's deviant lifestyle beyond sexual.

              In fact, most cases it's the other way around....if a religious person speaks out against something from their religious belief they are often called a bigot for having a different opinion. The very fact you calling someone a bigot based on their opinion, again OPINION, makes you in fact the bigot.

              LOL LOL LOL. Using words and calling people names with no understanding what so ever. LOL LO LOL LOL LOL.

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              • Zevon says:

                You twist and turn to justify your bigotry. Another bible thumper who uses a book of fiction to discriminate. Typical.

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                • We the People (1st!!) says:

                  How am I a bible thumper? Never made a reference to the Bible. Again you are so very wrong.

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                  • Zevon says:

                    You called me a bigot because I dared to say that atheists have superior morals to religious bigots. So you're defending religious bigots. That alignes you with the bible thumpers, I'm afraid.

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                    • We the People (1st!!) says:

                      The main reason why people say "religeous bigots," is because they have a different opinion to those against this.

                      For example the people doing this petition have been called "religeous bigots" and homophobes and the like just because they have a different opinion on this topic. In fact they have had more hateful things said towards them then this group has said about same-sex. But I guess that is okay.

                      Most times it is not even religious people that use the bible or any other religious books to justify a point. Non religious people and even atheist have used the quotes and passages in the bible to get across their points. Most times the hateful remarks are not coming from "religious bigots."

                      You're saying that aligned me with bible thumpers and it has nothing to do with the bible. I don't user a "book of fiction" as you have implied.

                      "Another bible thumper who uses a book of fiction to discriminate."

                      I said "The very fact you calling someone a bigot based on their (difference of) opinion, again OPINION, makes you in fact the bigot.

                      You can't categorize religious people making a comment "religious bigots." What you can do is individually call out a person who is being a bigot. I do not know how you can identify on here who is religious by comments. Just because a person uses the Bible or Quran, as if muslims are not in this, doesn't make that person religious. So your broad catergorization of "religious bigot" is very unfair.

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              • Mike Hind says:

                Sorry, but this is nonsense.

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                • We the People (1st!!) says:

                  how? It is true. That is the definition of bigotry.

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                  • Mike Hind says:

                    Because your entire post was nonsensical misinformation.

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                    • We the People (1st!!) says:

                      To who, you? I wasn't addressing you. I was clarifying the meaning of bigot that is all to often unnecessarily thrown at people.

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                    • Mike Hind says:

                      No. Not to me. In general.

                      It was nonsense and misinformation on factual levels.

                      All of your attempted points have been debunked as such multiple times. It's getting tiring proving you wrong over and over again.

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      • mj says:

        Love is obedience regardless of consequence.. Love is to admonish to show what is right and wrong..The word has been used and abused to suit who ever says it, Love is the union(marriage)of male and female to multiply and replenish the earth..Sex on the other hand is about feelings and the rights of others is based on feelings . The Law of the Most High is about obedience to HIm .. The law of legislation is a way in which people decide how they will live regardless of morals which is diabolically opposed to the NAtural Law of how to live given to us by our creator who even explains to us how and when to plant seeds in the earth so they will grow and how and when and what to do with the harvest. Legislation does not have natural authority, as much as they can make a plant illegal will not eradicate its existence because it is from the Earth which is natural and can't be stopped unless the Most high Creator stops it,.. There are different laws according to the Bible the Laws of GOd are not those of man and there are HUmans and there are Mankind , we are not all the same..Mankind is a form of man , some describe themselves as evolving through neaderthal means or evolution ..Creations have different levels and so some people will be prone to behaviours that others will want to follow but shouldn't because there are different consequence for people of hue.The Most high cursed certain nations which produced forms of mankind that we have in the earth today, ruling and ruining most of it through their own perversions or persuasions.There is a book called "Mankind" in the archives of the library by a german author who speaks about the difference .

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  40. Mary says:

    Will all the fatherless families in Bermuda ,single parents divorces ,child abuse etc I really don't know why gay folks wanna be a part of that failing institution anyway , homosexuality been here since the dawn of time ain't going away thank goodness , a lot of hatred and bigotry pushed around better to go out and eat ya lobster

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  41. NT says:

    I just want to know how allowing gays to marry ruins the family unit? It is rather amusing (and sad) to use such and excuse when 80% of the local ...Christian population (the ones behind the petition) come from and run single parent households. I was being generous with the 80% too, its probably much higher than that. That's the real problem on this island, along with alcoholism. True families often do not exist in the Bermudian population so how does gay marriage threaten that or will ruin it? Its as if having both your parents is a sin in this community! Talk to your relatives and ask why do they have kids with no father around. Why do they have kids with no husband. Isn't that more detrimental? What makes your sin less than others?

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    • mj says:

      @nt....According to THE MOST HIGH, homosexuality is an abomination and it comes with the lifestyle ..divorce is forgiveable and so are other sins that are included in leviticus, and throughout the bible, there are certain acts that are not forgiven because they lead to death.. If all men were to be with men, then who would be left to procreate? It would be the death of mankind thats why it is abominable!It would seem that homosexuals are against women and we must defend our right to also want to multiply and bring up a nation without confusion of sexuality.. God is not a God of confusion, He created female and male to be joined together naturally..If a man thinks he is meant to be a womanthat he would've been born with a womb and would endure bleeding for approximately five days without dying, most men cannot bleed for too long, The Creator makes no mistake, but the minds of men are determined to have their way and walk in ther own misunderstanding of life.

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      • Strike fund says:

        Some questions:
        When did the Most High say it is an abomination and who actually heard this?
        What about sins other than in Leviticus, but in other books of an ancient script that has been translated from an ancient language?
        Who said all men were going to be with men?
        If homosexuals are against women, does this mean women can't be gay?
        Why is God a he?
        If most men cannot bleed for too long can you give me examples of the ones that do?
        Did you read back over what you wrote before you posted?

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        • mj says:

          @strike fund...to answer your questions Leviticus 18-20..Who heard it?You obviously judging by your next question what other ancient scripts do you refer to that are also a part of our system?other sins are also punisheable just no one begging or asking the law to change on them.. And as for women, sure they can be gay, we can be happy all day long..when it comes to blood, larger men that have more than ten pints of blood in the due to their size may bleed longer than a smaller male but males in general do not and cannot bleed as a woman does without passing out..I pint of blood is average for giving .I have given blood and given birth..

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      • Peace says:

        Population of the world: 7,376,187,000. Don't think we need to worry about population depletion at the moment. And you are not going to force gays straight to make them marry someone of the opposite sex anyway, so it just makes no logical sense.

        As Bohr said to Einstein, don't tell God what to do. If he makes no mistake, that could simply mean he put this on the road-map. At any rate, spread your God's word all you want, but it is not right to force your beliefs on others.

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      • Varied says:

        Allowing gay people to marry is not going to lead to the extinction of humanity. It's not some 'trend' that everybody's going to jump on board with if it's legalised.

        Heck, people are procreating quite often without the construct of marriage in place as it is.

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      • Moojun says:

        "If all men were to be with men, then who would be left to procreate? It would be the death of mankind"... Rally? you think your sexuality is a choice? Then when exactly did you decide to be heterosexual? Please walk us through your active decision on sexuality. Oh, it came naturally to you too did it?. It did for 'the other side' as well. Live with it.

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      • Mike Hind says:

        Saying these lies over and over wont make them true. All of these have been addressed repeatedly in the past. You just ignore anything that proves you wrong.

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      • NT says:

        You are quite possibly the dumbest person to comment today. Congrats. This comment was so stupid I am forced to believe you must be trolling.

        Now mj, were you raised in a two parent household? Do you have a relationship with your father? Are you currently married and raising your children in a two parent household? I guarantee all the answers are 'no'.

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      • Hmmmm says:

        @mj... abomination... I think we are all tired of hearing that word in this discussion... can you please tell me why this one abomination (according to the bible) is worse than any of the 60+ others?

        Personally I say... Whoever is without abomination please cast the first stone. (after all it is lobster season)

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        • mj says:

          hmm--maybe we are also tired of hearing about people wanting to get married that can't because they lack the components and don't understand why it is impossible, due to the true meaning of the word, read it in the dictionary than apply it to what you are asking... marriage is between male and female, unless you now want to change meanings of words..and read the bible for yourself, your precious system was founded upon it.

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          • Mike Hind says:

            Another false, ridiculous argument that has been debunked many, many times.

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  42. Ed Case says:

    What are the creatards worried about. Don't marry anyone gay. Problem solved.

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  43. Str8 black pride says:

    End of the day its not normal god created us and set a way a way of life basic man to woman and we all will be judged for ours sins all of them and man to man is a sin so worry not of me worry of what god has to has to say kz he has the last say so and if u dnt believe in god u will the day u meet him so thats your personal situation only god can judge im jz tryns help u understand that god is sgainst man to man dnt have time for proper punctuation to keep u happy english is not my native tongue anyways so i can use it anyway i want kz i was stripped of my native tonuge when my ancestors where taken from their original homeland i have no need to please any of you gay pride supporters kz u are jz confused and when god tells u himself you know you were wrong i love my brothers and sisters bt i am not supposed to lay with my brother in lust it is wrong and not the way god intended when he created us i speak of no religion i am speaking of god and way and will u can say whatever you want jz know god does not agree with man and man laying together u can love each other all you want bt when u lay with each other it is considered a sin so do as u please live in your filth you will be judged by god not no religion all you remember that end of discussion

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    • Mike Hind says:

      "... i speak of no religion i am speaking of god..."

      Um... Do you seriously not see it?

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      • mj says:

        hinds..religion is not the same as reading and understanding what "God" said in the bible.. do you get it yet!!! Some of us read many books, the Bible is one of them..Some people have formed religions based around their interpretation of the bible.. do you get that not all people quoting the bible are religious, we are merely quoting what is in the Bible.. that does not make us religious!To read the bible doesn't mean you are under monastic vow or attend any church or have any so called name relating to a deity ... The bible like any other book is up for discussion by ALL! The Truth will be revealed while we all still have opinions.But society decided to have the bible as their book to swear in oaths to positions of leadership in the earth , politians, judges, ministers, ect. swear by the bible.Thats why it is fair to quote from it when discussing issues, not because we are religious but because the SYSTEM decided to go by it., So take up your argument with the system and the US$ which says'in god we trust". God is found in the BIBLE!Now do you get it!

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        • Mike Hind says:

          Seriously? You don't see it?
          I mean... This is just crazy talk.

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  44. Will says:

    What's annoying about the bible bashers is they can't for one second think with their own brains. I mean seriously just don't consider what the bible says and for once consider with your own mind. Make up your own logical conclusion with your own feelings, perhaps then will you see that it doesn't matter to anyone and the world if two men or women marry each other. It's that simple.

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  45. Get real says:

    Civil unions yes, marriage no.
    Marriage is between a man and a woman.
    All legal rights should be given to civil unions like those of marriage.

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    • Mike Hind says:

      I like that you are open to giving rights, but why "separate but equal"?

      Why shouldn't people be allowed to call it a Marriage, other than religion, which, as has been discussed repeatedly, the word marriage isn't the sole property of?

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    • Hmmmm says:

      Then what is the difference? All marriage is, is a civil union..

      The religious ceremony is called Holy Matrimony and in itself has no legal standing. This ceremony can be carried out by someone who is NOT licensed to perform marriages in Bermuda. A marriage can be carried out by anyone licensed in Bermuda to do so. This can be civil or religious.

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  46. sandgrownan says:

    Why are the religious obsessed with gay sex?

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    • binfords says:

      because they think the louder they scream, people won't figure out that they are in the closet.

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  47. Onion Soup says:

    Thirty years ago, I witnessed what can happen to a same-sex couple who does not have the rights and privileges that go with a legal marriage. For brevity, I will call them "Joe" and "Sam". They had lived together for over forty years, in the same apartment. When Joe was taken suddenly ill, his family blocked Sam from visiting him in the hospital. The hospital was bound because Sam was neither relative nor spouse. When Joe died several days later, his family gave Sam 30 days to move out of the apartment. This was perfectly legal because Sam was not named in the original Lease as co-tenant and the landlord was compelled under the law to allow it. Joe's family blocked Sam from visiting the funeral home, or partaking in any way in funeral arrangements, also chasing him away from the burial. Sam had no rights under the law to assets in the apartment because he could not provide proof of ownership. Joe's family took everything away except Sam's personal items (clothing, toiletries, etc.) Because Joe had never drawn a Will, he could not make any claim under the then-current estate laws. He sought legal advice and was advised that because under the law he was merely Joe's "room-mate", there was nothing to be done. Joe and Same loved each other truly and deeply. When Joe's family had stripped the apartment and finally left Sam alone. When the thirty-day eviction period was done, the landlord, out of kindness, gave him the keys and told him he could stay as long as he wished, for half the rent. Sam remained there, a lonely, bereft, broken-hearted old man, rattling around in the empty space he had shared with the love of his life, until he died in his sleep less than a year later. They were two of the most kind and gentle people I've ever met and it broke my heart to see what happened or, rather, what had been done, to Sam because some (most) people could not see them as equally entitled to the protections afforded everyone else. This is NOT a religious issue, as much as some would make it to be. It is a legal issue. Period.

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  48. Common Sense says:

    Not sure if it has been mentioned before, but I found that the sermon from Pastor Dewey Smith, which can easily be found on uTube is extremely enlightening on this whole issue.

    I would strongly urge everyone to hear what the good Pastor has to say on the subject. He makes a lot more sense that most of those who "preach" on the subject. And I have a question for our religious friends. Is Pastor Dewey Smith a man of God?

    Not sure if Bernews permits us to provide links to uTube but but here is the link to Pastor Smith - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rHhW3Fnk6I

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  49. Huh says:

    Given Bermudas history you would think that discrimination would be dead. This looks like a good subject for a book by Jonathan Smith called Bible Flames

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  50. Ashamed says:

    As a Black Bermudian Heterosexual Male I am ashamed to read some of the views here. Discrimination is discrimination. Denying one's legal rights is something our forefather's fought strongly for to allow many of us to enjoy freedoms we would not otherwise have. Maybe you should enlighten yourselves and read some of the cases that have come across the courts, some of the real Life stories that show clearly we are denying people equal rights solely based on sexual orientation.

    http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/14pdf/14-556_3204.pdf

    http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/USvWindsor%20.html

    Regardless of your religious beliefs, it is completely discriminatory by law to not recognize these unions when others are recognized. The Supreme Court of the USA recognized so. You can oppose all you want, but eventually as with all basic human rights and equalities - you will be overruled and the law will recognize these unions as it should - IN EQUAL TERMS. It's not a matter of IF, it's a matter of WHEN. Eventually enough of the ignorant find enlightenment and things change.

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  51. ROSES S. says:

    Mere mortals have zero right to change the Laws of God…

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  52. QUO VADIS says:

    Animals got more moral/intelligence than humans!!!..do u see two male birds building a nest or two female???

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    • bdaboy says:

      Yes, it occurs frequently in nature. Educate yourself so you dob't look like an ignorant fool.

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  53. GowithGod says:

    Man got rules so does God…Only God can has the power to redefine 'marriage' not lowlife/perverted/vile humans…

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    • bdaboy says:

      What does got have to do with marriage? Marriage certificates are issued by the government, no gods are involved.

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    • friend says:

      I hope you take some time to think about what you just said.

      "Lowlife, perverted, vile...." these are rather ungodly terms to thrust upon another human. Are you remorseful?

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  54. Pete says:

    It is high time the Religious Zealots lay off Gay Bashing.
    If two persons wish to partner together it`s their Right, They won`t be coming to your church, you are enjoying your right to practice your religion, marry to whom you are attracted to, and have a life with.
    This has been a part of We Humans since the beginning of our existence.
    False doctrine has clouded the full truth. I`d like to know how eating Bacon will make me sinful ??

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