Two Arrests: Murder Of Malcolm Outerbridge
The Bermuda Police have confirmed the identity of Friday’s murder victim as 18-year-old Malcolm Outerbridge, and said that two people have been arrested in connection with his murder.
Around 12:40pm on Friday [Oct.28], police and paramedics responded to an assault in the Railway Trail, Bulkhead Drive, Warwick area.
When officers and EMTs arrived at the scene, they found Mr Outerbridge who had been seriously injured. He was rushed to hospital via ambulance but subsequently succumbed to his injuries.
A police spokesperson said, “The Bermuda Police Service can now report the identity of the victim of Friday’s tragic murder as Malcolm Outerbridge, 18 years, of Warwick Parish.”
“The Service’s deepest sympathies are extended to his family and friends. Detectives are still interested in speaking with anyone who may have been in the area of Railway Trail, Bulkhead Drive or Khyber Pass, Warwick, around 12:40 pm Friday, October 28th.”
“Witnesses or anyone with any information is encouraged to contact the Serious Crime Unit on 295-0011 or the independent and confidential Crime Stoppers hotline on 800-8477.”
“The police can also confirm that two persons were arrested during the weekend in connection with this case, and they are presently in custody. The case remains under priority investigation.”
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Thank God for this news I’ve been waiting on developments in this investigation,hopes its an open & shut case.
I hope that if they are the ones who did this heinous crime that they get convicted and sent to jail FOR LIFE, No one has the right to take another life!!!!
R.I.P Malcolm
It’s for things like this that capitol punishment should be used.
Agree. Instead of wasting tax payers money and over crowding prisons.
Good point!!!! But if we had Life being life, and not so many years we wouldn’t have a need for capitol punishment. When people start dying in jail from old age, that would make these fouls think before they act!!!
One of the guys turned himself in so I think it’s safe to say that at least one of them is really involved…no sane person would term himself in for a crime he didn’t commit.
question… if he turned himself in, will we still have to try him in supreme court?
He was a nice boy, never in trouble or anything. No involvement in gangs or anything like that. He went church almost arry veekand.
I mean TURN himself in…
Praz him!
Now is the time for this government to change the law and make Life, Life and not 25yrs or earlier! We need to seriously consider this law because the offenders are getting younger and will only be in jail for awhile and still get out before they are 50 yrs old!
I know all of you are sensative right now, but most of you are speaking out of raw emotion combined with what you hear.Most of you have never been to any sort of prison, and are therefore speaking uninformed. No prison is nice, and it certainly is nothing like the life you live. For one, no matter which one you go to, all of your neighbours are criminals. You are not a “bad boy” in prison,… Everyone else is equally bad, and potentially badder.You are nobody special in there.
Those of you who think 25 years is not so long, consider the following: it takes 18 years to leave the womb and become a college graduate.You can borrow some money, buy a house, and have it all paid back, plus interest in 20 years. The man who has worked at your job for 20 years will most likely be your boss. 13 years after throwing the biggest celebration ever seen on Court Street to support the PLP, most of those same people hate them. You can be declared bankrupt and have all of your credit restored in 7years.An insurance policy can mature in 18years, and so can a savings bond. None of these events are the 25 years we are discussing, but all are life altering events. I can go further,… If you applied for a loan and had to wait 25 years for a response, would you consider that “short term”? If I told you that you can have the job you applied for in 25 years,…would that also be short term? How about giving the police 25 years to figure out who stole your life savings,….would that also be a short term thing? Worse yet,should we disregard the fact that your “life savings” took 25years, because that’s short term isn’t it? In fact if a doctor saw 25 years left ahead in a cancer patient’s life, that person wouldn’t be considered terminally ill no matter their age.
I know by now, you can see that 25years is nothing like short term, and furthermore periods much shorter can drastically alter your life. 25 years is only short when written on paper. I hope this information served the intended dual purpose: the first instance to the folk on both sides of the line who think 25 years at anything(much less prison) is a walk in the park. You and most criminals share a certain shortsightedness. These young men will change in some shape or form whether they want to or not. Nobody aged 25 can reach age 50 without dramatic changes, and due to a clouded young mind a lot of them haven’t even considered this inevitability. Maybe the illustrations above can help them to understand not only what they have done to others, but now inflicted on themselves, and how irrevoccable things actually are, no matter how much time passes. Having said that, in addressing the certain segment of the population who rally for capitol punishment,… It will do you good to remember how flawed, and untrustworthy your government and it’s system is. You can never compensate a victim of systematic error, and especially cannot revive a person wrongly executed.Even you would not be able to hold the anger, and outrage you display today for the next 25 years. How will you fix the mistakes? How will you think after time has cooled even your emotions?
Capitol punishment never deterred murders (ask Texas, who executed so many people that it ran out of supplies, yet has new murder cases it hasn’t even gotten to address yet!) Teaching does though. Most of these young men know nothing, and will only begin their real sentence, when they discover/get taught what they haven’t learned yet. The only way to stop this whole cycle is for the rest of us to now go and research what we also don’t know, learn it properly and thoroughly, then teaching it to others. We can’t continue to make life decisions based on emotions,.. Doing that not only imitates the behaviour of gangsters/criminals,it also endorses it.
Well said Mr. Smith….many people who call for these harsh sentence and write out of emotion do little to help rehabilitate or prevent. It’s time we get from behind the computers and build relationships to educate and take Bermuda back!
We are talking about MURDER here! Cold-blooded, MURDER! I don’t want to ever see these scumbags out on the streets where my family and friends go. We are talking about MURDER! These guys didn’t just knock Malcolm off his bike and steal his baseball cards, they MURDERED him!
Typical bermudian.. Talking out of general emotion
Carlton Smith – give this a thought and then try again to tell us how we should all think regarding a 25 year sentence vs death for these scumbags: Young Mr. Outerbridge was only 18 years old – he didn’t get to see 25 years on this earth. The men who killed him will. I am sure Mr. Outerbridges’ family and friends do not think 18 years was enough time for them to have Malcolm. To them, I am sure that 18 years went by in a flash. For them, 18 years was not enough time! For them, they needed much more. Please think about that and then try again to convince us that the scumbags that killed him deserve any of our pity or leniency. Oh, and then think about this: how will the next 25 years be for Malcolm’s friends and family – I’ll bet every day without him will feel like an eternity! So don’t tell us that 25 years is enough for murderous scumbags!
Well said!
PREEEECH!!! Thank YOU!! Expose the lukewarm lack of passion for justice these people have who empathise with criminals MORE THAN THE VICTIMS!!! I’ve never seen any of them take an interest in “rehabilitating” innocent victims and their families. While they pleasure themselves in their brilliant ideas and comparisons they lose the visceral aspect of humanity which is neccessary for establishing justice. Let someone murder or rape their family member and we’ll see how “unemotional” they are. Their ideology is fragile and disarmed of compassion, except for murderers and rapists that is.
Those “poor uneducated” muderers know not to jump off a cliff don’t they? Why? Because the LAWS of nature are impartial to their stupidity. Nature is enough of an education to let them know they can’t disrespect it. It “deters” them. So why should our LAWS deceive and MIS-educate them by removing the proper consequences for taking innocent life?
As for Mr. Smith’s views on the system’s flaws, your argument is about the system for ascertaining guilt and not capitol punishment. Can you give a man 25 years of his life back after a system flaw? NO! So why aren’t you advocating no penal system at all. If guilt cannot be ascertained then there shouldn’t be a penal system period because ALL forms of punishment would then be unjust! Please take these twisted and confused philosophical values somewhere else, Bermuda doesn’t need them any more than we need these murders!
Very well said. Thanks. I don’t know why these fools even think these bies can be rehabilitated
@Carlton
Just compare all your 25year comparisons to the life of the murdered VICTIM!! Will he come back alive after 25 years? NO! So you’re missing the quintessential point here which is the VALUE of innocent life.
As for your comment “Capitol punishment never deterred murders”…. have you ever seen an executed man murder someone again?……?? I rest my case!
E-motions are a neccessary part of human experience when injustice is being committed. E-motion is what motivates us to empathise with victims and be enraged at injustice committed against the innocent. The pre-frontal cortex is what allows us to also be rational when responding to our e-motions. But if you take emotion away you are out of touch with your humanity and become lukewarm, disarmed, and passive. Not unlike your post!
@ Carlton Smith: Love is also a form of emotion. Murder is another but God say’s who He blesses, let no man curse…
Genesis 9:6 “Whoever sheds man’s blood,
by man his blood shall be shed;
For in the image of God
He made man,
be fruitful and multiply;
Bring forth abundantly in the earth
And multiply in it.”
You see, little Malcolm was still in the blossoming stage of life and had the potentials of becoming many thing, his dreams were cut short by a thoughtless selfish act of a different kind of emotion.
Why is it when a lion, bear, alligator or shark eats a man or takes a man’s life they are called man-eaters and are hunted and killed. Aren’t the killer-(s) the same as these animals?
Well, Mr. Smith, let us know how you feel when it’s a member of YOUR family. An eye for an eye. People convicted in Bermuda are being coddled – and Westgate is no hard core prison.
I think it’s PAST time to re-introduce the death penalty!
Prison is to easy and too expensive, and these punks are not worth keeping alive.
Carlton must be a family member of those arrested!!! I agree with Boston Baked Beans and Malachai and White Christ, an eye for an eye, and What!!!! u get my point!!!
Do we know yet whether this was gang related – or a case if mistaken identity like all the other ones?
Malcolm was not in a gang. Period. What I think happened is that he wandered upon something on the railway trail that he should not have seen. We all know what is being grown off the sides of the trail and we’ve even seen some of the “guards” standing guard over it. Perhaps it was harvest time and Malcolm was in the wrong place at the wrong time???? Just a hunch but if another full crop is found and destroyed, (as BPS has been doing lately) then that could be a loss of big $$$$$ for these drug dealers. Malcolm was one of the good ones. Gone way to soon.
That’s just a hunch that’s floating around out there…. Any other ideas or hunches?
I believe the prime suspect is 16
carlton smith u are an a## end of story u wrote o bunch of nuffin , u sound like an educated fool
No.. you sound like an UNeducated fool.
dont make sense taking away another youths life for one life, why not help him to create and become a better human being, dont jail him to self distrut and cry, jail him and help him overstand the true beings of life, and help save him, instead of destroying his life, dont fight fire with fire, you help him (who ever it is they have) when he overstands he will be mature enough to then help his friends and there will be a positive domino effect going on in the island, which would benefit ALL…………..Bring back the positive vibes 1love
And if he don’t and kills again, then what?
Didn’t make sense for them to take an innocent’s life either did it? Rhianna Moore’s murderer, Connie Furtado, Rebecca Middleton’s and other’s murderers are/were just waiting to be the best goddamned citizens anyone could ask for when they get/got out right? I can’t wait. You people utterly disgust me man. Its a case of the prodigal son. All the law abiding young men get ignored while other can shoot up and murder people and get all the sympathy and support to make something of themselves. While i was working hard as hell to pay bills and couldn’t afford education, some gangbanger got rewarded with an opportunity to become a high paid professional. It’s disgusting. You are a lukewarm fool!
Eye for an eye, white christ, peaches and cream,half baked bean, unreal talk and anyone else, who can’t read… Nowhere did I say murderers should go unpunished.Malcolm should never have been killed,… Nobody should be killed. If I am an A s s as implied by the unreal guy, let go with y’all theory, and round up anyone we suspect and kill them all. Rip their heads off, and drag their naked bodies through the street for the others to see.Then douse their carcass with gas and light it. Now that you’ve done all that, consult Malcolm (or any victim’s parents) and ask if their loss is any easier to bear. Keep looking to see if somehow all that has made up for the IRREVERSIBLE death of the innocent victim.Now take a look at the history of crime and punishment, and see how draconian punishment has been (beyond even you all’s sick and twisted imaginations) and observe how gruesome murders CONTINUED.@ unreal talk,..explain how you hope to scare somebody who already has no regard for human life by threatening them with violence?? Maybe you don’t know, but on the street you don’t even pick up a weapon unless you are willing to die. When a man has a heart cold enough to kill, he simply isn’t thinking of his own life. Talk about what you know, and don’t let your mouth prove you to be the a s s you think you see. For the rest of you tongue waggers,what happens when you find out after you did your revenge killing that you plain and simple had the wrong guy? Which one of you bold, clear thinkers will step up and lay down to be killed? What happens when the original killer’s family decides that you also must die for killing one of theirs? After all and eye for an eye is what you live by ! It’s amazing how so many people can speak about things so one sidedly, without thinking. Every last one of you are attention seeking mouth runners, hiding behind code names, because you know you can’t put your face with the nonsense you say out of embarassment. And with good reason too! For the record noone on either side are my relatives,but I have lost a child at the hands of someone else. My child was innocent too. Are all you sane minded people saying I would somehow feel better if I killed my child’s killers? Do you mean that all it would take not to have to wake up everyday with the memory of my dead child in my arms is to kill someone else? Are you saying that with the right degree of vengeful killing I can restore this void in my soul and bring my kid back into my life? Thank you for your advice,..I didn’t know it was that EASY!! One thing all of you have successfully shown me is that anything that makes sense will be viciously and persistently attacked most often by backward loudmouth people who don’t have any first hand experience of the topic, or any credible thinking power. Cowards with your pen names and wagging tongues.. Go on and make a lynch mob then, because after all the only solution to this mess may just be a “free for all killing spree!” Lastly to all of you, if 25 years is nothing at all, then I challenge you to shut up for 25 years or at least until you can start using your brains.
You are hysterical, you need to calm down. No one is talking about a lynch mob, or rounding up suspects and killing them. What most people here seem to think, including me, is that this type of crime desrves a very very harsh punishment. We don’t want vixious thigs like this out on the street attacking other innocent children. You, on the other hand, appear to be very concerned about making sure the thug criminal have 2nd and 3rd chances. Good for you. The rest of us think you’re an idiot.
@Mr. Smith. After reading the first few lines of your response, and I did read all of it, I foresaw the excessive use of malicious hyperbole and ad-hominem which was not only born out of the raw emotion you have accused others of, but exposes your bankruptcy in the face of the clear logic which was offered to you.
Carlton Smith has difficulty understanding the difference between justice carried out by AUTHORITY and vigilante mob justice, which he has conveniently accused us of calling for, in his emotional and disproportionate attack under the duress of ideological bankruptcy.
You ask, would we be willing to die at the hands of an executed murderer’s family member? Could we not equally ask if we are willing to be killed or imprisoned by the same member for 25 years as punishment for locking up their family member? See your problem is with justice and authority, not capital punishment. The society gives the AUTHORITY to the court to carry out JUSTICE! Saying that a court is committing a crime by executing a murderer is as stupid as saying that the police ‘kidnapped’ him and held him against his will when every sane person knows the clear difference between ARREST and imprisonment by AUTHORITIES vs. kidnapping and unlawful detention by a civilian!
You don’t comprehend the difference between killing and MURDER. Killing is necessary to be carried out by law at times. Take times of war for example when invaders attack to rape and murder innocent citizens. You really think we should not kill any of them because killing is ALWAYS wrong right?? Please!
You ask if execution makes it any easier for victim’s family to bear! Well we can’t know that because their murderers are still alive. So perhaps their added grief is actually due to the absence of capital punishment. But wait a second, would 25 years imprisonment make them feel any better either? NO! So what’s your point really? You’ve yet to grasp that it’s not only about punishing or making a family member feel better, it’s about establishing BOUNDARIES in society and ensuring the safety of citizens before AND after a crime is committed. Obviously, threatening a cold hearted murderer with prison doesn’t deter them either now does it? So what’s your point when you say threatening them with execution is ineffective? As I said before, I have never seen an executed murderer or rapist get up and kill or rape again so it sounds like a pretty damn good deterrent to me captain.
In your own words “When a man has a heart cold enough to kill he simply isn’t thinking of his own life”. EXACTLY, and that’s our fault because we removed the natural consequence to premeditated murder. If these murderers knew they would be executed I guarantee a great percentage of them will equate the taking of someone else’s life with the loss of their own life. As for the ones who commit the crime regardless of the consequences, well suicide happens too doesn’t it.
Then you confuse punishment with torture when in fact lengthy imprisonment is leaning more toward emotional, psychological, social and physical torture than simply executing murderers. And can you give someone back 25 years of their life after a flaw in the system? NO! So why not do away with prison sentences and the penal system all together? You know well enough that there are indeed cases where guilt is ascertained beyond a shadow of doubt and also cases where some doubt lies. Capital punishment should be used only for the former. So it seems you’re the one who speaks as if 25 years is easy to give back not us, very contradictory! Your problem seems to be a sentimental and emotional identification with the lives of criminals rather than an identification with the life of a society. We are forfeiting the life of a nation for the culture of death and immorality of a few.
Second-lastly and least importantly, humans have been hiding behind the facades, reputations and ‘names’ they make for themselves in public since the beginning of time. So using your own name actually makes me more suspicious of what you actually are willing to share and how you present yourself. It seems to me that you obviously like the idea of claiming higher moral ground over us ignorant peasants while conveniently ‘making a name’ for yourself. So your use of your legal name isn’t exactly as noble as you would have us believe is it? I suspect it would be very challenging for you to offer something useful without the indulgence of claiming your brilliant ideas as intellectual property on blogs and laying claim to your self profesed bravado. So go ahead and put a picture up if you like, that still tells us nothing about your true self and true motives. At least I can trust the sincerity of those with pen names. Those using pen names are also wise to do so when society has lukewarm individuals who think like you, and lacks individuals who will stand up for justice and defend them when they are targeted for bringing opinions that really matter. It’s easier to share what you believe is the more intellectually inclined position while enjoying your amicable connections with the criminal underworld albeit with noble intentions. Vicious dogs are adorable to their friends and owners but everyone else is in touch with the real and present danger of offending offenders. Shame on you for getting close with criminals and then attacking citizens who wish to remain anonymous. Say something that criminals wouldn’t like for a change and then your use of your ‘name’ just might hold some weight! So….right back at cha!
Lastly and most importantly, my condolences for the loss of your child. I have suffered the loss of a childhood friend to mistaken identity and a beloved cousin who, like a sister to me was raped and sodomised then stabbed 57 times to death. I also have a family member who was a murderer and is dead now. Good riddance! It’s not every case that deserves capital punishment, but some definitely do and to deny that is to defy logic.
Mr. Whitechrist, although you have presented a very long psychoanaalysis,you have indeed skewed your own words and perception in a vainglorious attempt to reduce reality into a facade of grammatical exchange. So…. Let’s group like numbers, simpify the fractions and solve the equation shall we?
Firstly, I understand aurthority to the fullest, and inarguably the Creator being the highest form (yes even higher than the courts and system which claims to be separate yet swear themselves into position and office by God). Authority come from righteousness, and thorough and complete righteousness, not by merely setting oneself up in so called authority. You have contradicted yourself consistantly in ALL of your commentary, which started off with you blasting the “aurthorities” and how they refuse to issue “justice”. If you have been living in Bermuda for more than even five years, you will have witnessed allsorts of misdeeds, hypocrisy,favouritism, cronyism,classism,and even outright corruption from these authorities (and yes the government and the judiciary are one and the same, the judiciary ensures enforcement of government decisions {law} and both entities send OHMS governmen mail). You now want to trust the same judiciary,and lawmaker,and all to decide who lives, and who dies, when several times you state that they continue to get it wrong??
Now let’s look at capitol punishment. The only representable fact in your perspective is that once you kill a murderer (or suspect as you would have it) he cannot murder again. Correct. The problem is though,.. Murder didn’t start with that person, neither will it end with removing them. Worldwide statistics prove my point: China has the most draconian penal system in the world.they have been this way relentlessly for decades or more, yet somehow the Chinese Mafia flourishes, and is now international. It is so easy to get killed and dissapear in China that it will make your head spin. Murders in China occur on a regular, and gangs even moreso, and executions even more than that, please respond with your facts (not exxagerated opinion) on how capitol punishment deterred murder in China. In the USA, the death penalty is legal in at least three states(maybe more). The state of Texas is the largest state, and propotionately has the most gun crime. It has also shown itself to be very persistant in its stance on execution and will be deterred by absolutely no one.it performs and has performed the highest number of executions in the entire USA throughout history. It also has the highest rate of gun crime, and indeed the highest rate of murder.it has the highest number of NRA members.you can get shot in Texas as easy as you can spot a cow in Texas. When you are finished your factual stats on China, bring the stats that show how execution is deterring murder in Texas too.Incidentally, Texas has a very high number of wrongful executions as well.You better take your “authority killing” perspective to the family and supporters of the late Troy Davis and put their minds at ease then. (Make sure you do it in person, so you can share their joy and acceptance). Mexico has the worst prisons, and a fair trial is as guaranteed as the weather. Look at how much of a deterrent that has been to gun crime, gangs, and murder. Men are so deterred by doing hard time for their crimes, that I guess they found it easier to arm up heavily and kill entire sections of the also armed police force.The criminals are running so scared that they are killing police, and members of the public and dumping them in the streets, or delivering the bodies to their families…oh, and prison in Mexico is still tough. Colombia is even worse when it comes to prison conditions.They also give the death penalty for murder. Explain why Columbia still, better yet has increasingly more gangs and criminals that are internationally feared. Kingston, Jamaica has a prison that you need not even drive past. They are not afraid to execute. In fact police there have been known to go on raids with a General Purpose Machine Gun.(In case you don’t know, you have to use a tripod with this gun. It’s like a heavyduty kango hammer that shoots bullets. At 300 meters it will disintergrate a 16inch thick concrete wall). Yet murder, and gun crime continue at high levels. Bring your facts about deterrance in Jamaica too. The US penal system has some of the worst prisons and regimes in the western world. It also hands out incredibly high sentences (multiple life, 300 plus year terms etc.) Yet murder continues. In fact over the last seven years a new trend of mass killing coupled with suicide has emerged leading to hundreds of innocent lives lost and dozens of untriable murders.
Interestingly you referenced war. Examine just three out of the thousands of wars. Be thorough and objective (you can take time to stretch your perspective to villify me, so I know you can do thorough research if you dared to try).Count first of all the human casualties on both sides. Then count the collateral(property) damages. Next measure the fall out in terms of economy, food, medecine,during wartime, and then do it after the war. Assess the amount of disabilty in war veterans. Do this for both sides, and you will come to find that nobody actually ever “wins” a war. They simply come to their senses and reach an agreement after much catastrophe, that could have been reached in the first place without all that mess.
An eye for an eye, only goes so far toward justice. If my son killed your son, and your brother killed my son for it, then my older son killed your brother for killing his brother, would you be wrong for killing my ollder son? Would I also be wrong when I kill you for killing my older son who had not done the original killing, nor had he done anything to you personally?
“Justice” as defined by you is by percption, and thus subject to as far as your limited mind can think. However, right and wrong is a completely different issue.
The biggest deterrent we have against murder and criminals, is to first learn correct and proper knowledge as adults, and then teach your children. Correct them when they do wrong accompanied by teaching with words.Nip negative behaviour in the bud and be consistant. (No need to read between the lines I am one who advoctes physical punishment in children). Yes they need a good cut a$$ when they have gone far. But this only works when consistently applied in conjunction with taught examples from the very early stages, so that your groom them and rely less in the punishment as the child grows.This is called raising your child, and this whole article highlights why it needs to be done. If there was more teaching then you wouldn’t have the crimes that these “know nothings” who were not taught and raised commit.It is far too late to try and establish boundaries in a 20 year old that has never been taught.At that point even capitol punishment won’t deter, simply because ignorance has overrode even death.That is the biggest point that my original commentary made, but was overshadowed by your ill thought eagerness to intelluctually embarass me.
Again you adequately argued a case against having a penal system at all, NOT capital punishment exclusively. The pivotal point you are attempting to make is that execution does not deter further crime, however the same is true for prison and other forms of punishment, THEY DON”T DETER CRIME EITHER!! So the conundrum created by focusing on “deterrents” is yours Mr. Smith not mine! As far as I’m concerned capital punishment is an equalizer for society and a deterrent for the executed offender. Equalized, because they MURDERED or RAPED someone and deserve punishment, and deterrent because they will never murder or rape again 100% guaranteed. Additionally, society is not unjustly punished by having to pay for them to live the life of a vegetable or a sub-human existence in a cage, which is inhumane torture, not punishment. You talked about Troy Davis. Execution was not the problem in this case, the system for ascertaining guilt was the problem. Surely the decades he spent in prison was wrongful too! So why arent you calling for the abolition of prisons? Furthermore, you might want to refer to a BERMUDIAN case. Take Ze Selassie for example who was convicted of sexual assault, imprisoned, then released to prey upon our daughter Rhianna Moore whom he MURDERED after his effective “correction”! What about her innocent blood? Why didn’t your wonderful correctional facility ‘deter’ him from murdering a beautiful innocent 14 year old? We FAILED her with misplaced sentimentality for criminals and their rehabilitation which should be reserved for the victims and their families. Oh but he might be innocent right? Please!
I clearly stated that WE THE SOCIETY give authority to lawmakers and that WE have failed by mis-educating and deceiving children about the realities and value of life by removing the appropriate consequence for violating the sanctity of life. So I find it hard not to think that you aren’t reading my comments and inventing phantom opposing arguments to ritualistically tear down. Could you reply to something I’ve actually said please?
Since you expressed your belief in GOD as the highest authority I will take this opportunity to express a personal belief of my own in addition to my faith in GOD not only as Creator but as LAWMAKER!!! That belief is that we as human beings will one day reach the understanding that we have violated the sanctity of human dignity by placing human beings in cages and thus changing their description into something other than human. One day we will understand the sanctity of human life so much that we would rather put a murderer and rapist in the ground (which is where we’re all going) than to see a human being who was created for dignity, in a cage like an animal. No! We are not going to allow you John murderer and you Jack rapist to change the stature of Adam. We’d rather put you back in the earth. The life of the society is more important. I don’t expect you to understand that wisdom in that law even though you profess to believe in God. Like I said, NATURE is the BEST educator is it not? and who created nature?? Next time you wave your faith in God around you might want to actually refer to GOD’s laws instead of your own philosophy, because by doing so you are actually making yourself to be a god So its probably best not to play the ‘holier than thou I’m a man of GOD’ card. Especially when you’re the god being refered to.
You make an excellent point that education is the best “deterrent” and education from a young age especially which I agree with 100% wholeheartedly. However you are myopic to rule out the other necessary measures that must be in place to ensure that those who decide to act contrary to the education they receive are dealt with. Surely if you agree that education is the best deterrent you should understand that if children are taught to equate the taking of innocent life with the loss of their own life in their childhood education, then capital punishment provides and excellent education and “deterrent” for them doesnt it. But deterrents is your focus not mine.
If you advocate cutting children’s A$$e$ (keep in mind children are more innocent than adults) then how can you object to cutting ADULTS A$$e$ who are accountable and better situated to discern right from wrong??? Your logic is profoundly befuddled Mr. Smith.
Lastly, you spent an awful amount of your word count illustrating China, Jamaica, Mexico, US etc. etc. and the dynamics of those societies. You might want to focus some of your energy and research on BERMUDA and not the so called developing or communist world. Please come home!
Your post makes it clear that your issue is with corrupted authority and not capital punishment exclusively. You might want to zero-in on that corruption rather than forms of punishment because locking an innocent up for 80 years is torture and no less deserving of our attention. So what about Rhianna Moore?? I’ll leave you with that!
Wow !!! Lots of emotion here about the topic of justice. There are clearly points to be made on either side and its easy for one to point fingers and say “fool’ to the other. As for me; I am a firm beliver in karma and the ultimate “universal justice”. Whether the murderers die from capital punishment or eventual old age in or out of jail; death is as certain for them as it is for us all. To take another life is to place your own in a very dark place that is impossible to come back from.
I can’t speak to what makes a person’s soul turn cold enough to kill or how these kids lose their innocence and become these instruments of evil that are slowly turning Bermuda into a place we barely recognise from our childhoods.
What is the proper justice for something like this? I guess it depends on what you believe. I believe justice finds you one way or another. Be it through the justice system, a lifetime of sleepless nights, experiencing loss for themselves or someone seeking revenge. I don’t think any one of these things would make everyone happy but being a spiritual person (not religious), I try to have faith that some type of balance is struck that will help give the victims families and friends peace and the will to move on.
@ Yeah but wait. I agree whole heartedly with your perspecctive. There is no such thing as killing someone and getting away scot free. Once you go that irreversible route, you no longer are in control of how you life pans out.It will take people to realize this before they commit such acts in order for it to diminish. Hoping against all odds that people see this about themselves before it’s too late. We lose at least two people with every murder commit. The victims never come back, and the perpetrator has altered his own life forever.
Finally Whitechrist, you have made your true position clear. It has become abundantly clear that you have no stance and blow whereever the wind takes you. Every comment you made contradicts your last position, and you have at least twice credited words and thoughts to sources that didn’t present them. You have spoken nearly three thousand words, and not produced a single verifiable fact, nor have you presented a credible reference. You have abandoned your own opinion more than once, and attempted to speak on subjects which you have little knowledge on.
Perhaps you’re not as well acquainted with the source I credited as you want the reader to believe.
And would you like to accuse me of WMDs while you’re on a roll? Its no use throwing empty accusations to divert attention away from arguments you could not conjure up an intelligible response to. This defence mechanism will betray you almost as soon as your ideologies will. The baselessness and superficiality of your last reply is an appropriate summarization of the aimless wandering in the philosophy you subscribe to. It was a good debate nonetheless and I am never more sure of the weakness in an argument than when one creates a smokescreen of ad-hominem to defend their own intellect from the discomfort which LOGIC can sometimes bring!
Mr Carlton Smith..question when ants or roaches or black widow spiders enter your house do you imediatly spray them with baygon or do you pick them up one by one and place them in a facility and feed the insects until they either die or learn to not come into your home again and then set them free??
There is no two lives lost when a person murders another person there is just one life lost!! The life of the victim is taken away from this world in a second. Where is your justice or your cry out for the victim and the victims family?? We cant say that if a person commits murder that sending them to jail for 25 years is justice.
How is that justice when the parents and family memebers of the victim have to pay out of their hard earned money for the murderer to eat, live and rest all the while the murderer never gives a single penny to even pay for the damn casket of the person he killed. Not even one freaking flower!!
How is it justice that the murderer gets 25 years AND SERVES HIS TIME,an we say he has payed his debt to society when IN FACT SOCIETY HAS GONE INTO DEBT BY HOUSING HIM FOR 25 YEARS. Do you know how much it costs to house a murderer for 25 years?
These MURDERERS are like insects they are our black widows our roaches our pain in the a$$ in society. Why should we have to pay for someone to eat and live and get in shape and get educated all the while they have taken that opportunity away from another INNOCENT SOUL. While a death peanalty might not remove or stop people from killing ..because evil will remain here on the earth till the end of time, it sure as hell will remove the scum insects from ever comming into our house(bermuda) again.
And when one of these evil ones pop up he is put out fast with our baygon (capitol punishment system). We are not dealing with normal good innocent human beings were talking about hell bent individuals that think nothing about taking a life.
Mr Carlton Smith if a murderer was in front of you with a gun or a kinfe and was trying his best to kill you, i mean he was relentless at killing you, im 100% sure that you would fight to defend yourself and if you slayed the murderer you would tell the whole world that it was self defense, and the world would accept that!
Where the hell is your self defence for the innocent people of Bermuda thats being attacked daily by murderers? , where is your fight for the decent human beings, where is your fight for the survival and preservation of the good.
Defending murderers and talking against capitol punishment is defending a evil that is in the society. Capitol punishment is an option that innocent victims and good hearted people can relate to whether it happens or not. Atleast we can see the benefit in not going into debt or paying for a murderer to live especially if we are the victims family.
I see your long response to rebuttle your position to other writers now lets see a long response for the victims and how to help them. And how best to prevent this from happening. Lets see you take the side of good and leave the side of evil lets see the the response for the good souls.
@ Justice,… The one reason and the best reason I am not begging for capitol punishment is the fact that the people you are asking to admnistrate capitol punishment are not trustworthy. You cannot get another long aswer, simply because you did not even bother to completely read the others instead you chose to harp on the one thought. To answer your question, if a man tried his best to kill me, I would try my best to defend myself without killing him, but regardless of how court saw it or the rest of you see it, if I did kill him, on that day my life will change forever. You have heard many words from me, not once did you hear me defend a murderer. Not once did I say it’s right to murder someone. I did however state that to call 25 years in any prison “easy” is ill informed.I also stated that the day you decide to kill someone, your life will change forever irreversibly, whether you realize it or not. How many people have you killed? How many nights have you spent in jail? Have you ever lost a child at someone else’s hands and had to live on? I can answer yes to at least two of those questions. I gave many examples of how much capitol punishment solves nothing, (other than temporary releif for vengence as in your case).you do know that all the gang related killing and shooting is based on your same philosophy don’t you?. Just try and picture your young defenceless child killed at the hands of adults. Try and imagine the pain. Now in your mind, kill those same people.Do you really believe that the next time you are hurting for your loss, that you can comfort yourself by saying that you got them ? What about their dumb murderer’s family? Are you saying a good family deserves pain for having an idiot offspring? Will you accept it when they want to kill you for killing theirs? A lot of talk and words, but none of you want to answer that question.Justice is bold,.. You go on and be the first. Answer the question.
Carlton Smith the people that WE as a community vote for, in our eyes is trustworthy if they prove otherwise the we simply vote to remove them. And we cannot mnake a blanket statement saying that all the people are not trustworthy therefore we do our best to let murderers live and we as the family of the victims pay for the living and housing of the scum that took our innocent babies away from us.
If someone was trying to damn best to kill you i doubt that you will be thinking about trying your best to not kill them. Soldiers in the heat of battle kick into their survival mode and defend themselves by killing a person who is trying to kill them. Its human nature to defend your self, even a small creature tries his best to defend itsself if it is attacked. And you life would change olny for the simple fact that you would have experienced that you was about to be killed and you killed the scum that was activly trying to kill you. I doubt that you would have huge remorse for a evil person who was activly trying to kill you.
Now to assume that i didnt read the conversation is wrong and atagonistic and your trying to insult my character for what i dont know. You refuse to give a long answer based on the FACT that you think i didnt read the whole conversation?? Now how are you to be taken as a trust worthy person when you made a judgment on my character and didnot base that on facts. I read every post that was written! So you accuse others as not being trustworthy yet you willfully cast a judgment on me without even knowing me?? S.M.H. Ok lets get back to the post….
if you can answer yes to two of the questions that you put forth it means you either killed a person, spent time in jail, and lost a child at the hands of someone else. Please be clear so we wont assume that your a murderer as well. As for me ive spent a brief time in jail and i lost a child at the hands of a murderer, also every innocent soul that is killed is a child of this community (if you except the it takes a village to raise a child speech)
If my child chooses the evil road to be a gang member and take a life of another innocent person then the reality is that my heart goes out to the family of the victim and i would be ashamed that my child would do such a thing. And if capitol punishment is the law then my child would have to face the music. Because i know that the decision that he made he made as an adult even though he is my child he or she is an adult that chose an evil path. And your analogy makes no sense, my child is not defencless he would be being put to death for taking the life of another innocent soul.
These are not children these are young ADULTS thats doing these killings not 12 11 9 8 7 6 5 year old children. When i lost a loved one due to murderer i want nothing more than for the murderer to meet his lord swiftly not sit in jail and rot while i pay for him to live. NO if my child had to meet his lord and wasnt given the opportunity to live then the murderer should have to meet his lord and explain why he killed an innocent person. And yes i will feel comfort in knowing that i got them and that he will be facing his lord for final judgement!!!
A good family with a evil hell bent murderer does not greive over the loss of their evil son or daughter rather they are more aplogenic to society for raising a child that turned out to be a killer.
I have not seen once where a family got upset or started a campaign for their murderous child who was put to death. Rather they are ashamed of what their child done.
No GOOD FAMILY WOULD SEEK VENGENCE or want to kill people for taking there evil child who is a murderer and putting him or her to death. Thats only the mentality of gangs that happens in gang families.and all the while its gang memebers killing gang memebers which is a network of nothing other than evil works.
true justice would be to give the murderers the excact same type of wounds that they inflicted on their victims. So if they stabbed a person 15 to 20 times then they should be stabbed 15 to 20 times in the same areas and left for the same amount of time that they left their victims, if they survive then we can say justice has been served. So if the murderer shot the victim in the head then the murderer should be shot in the head. Now that would be true justice!!
Um,…Justice, I would like to point out that you’re either contrary of hyprocritical, bythe simple fact that if you trusted the authorites and powers that be in their stance on murderers and other criminals, you wouldn’t be on here ranting about the sentences they already have in place.Let’s see how voting will change that,when it was abolished under the UBP, and carry forward with PLP and the only other option politically is OBA? As for assuming you didn’t read my post, you make it abundantly evident that you either didn’t read thoroughly, or you read selectively and are deliberately choosing to attempt to misrepresent what you read. You have gotten many a skewed and unusual definition of my commentary and your opening addresses are equally skewed. I assumed nothing, the proof is in your answers! Your analogy if war is far out of place, for every soldier in a war is innocent, and forced to participate. Although they kill to prevent being killed, the impact of all of it schanges their lives forever. This is why many war veterans constantly need emotinal counselling. Even in wartime, you are held responsible for every life you take and are actually processed to determine whether you followed orders or acted off your own steam. Have you ever killled someone? Have you ever been to war? Have you ever even been a soldier? You need to stop speaking about things you have never experienced. You go on to try and paint my character in your own light. Let me clarify for you: you are being presumptuous. If I had to kill to prevent being killed I probably would try. If successful, it would haunt me and change my life. Even the contrary eye for and eye theory you push in your own abstract way would not bring comfort. I know this, because I was involved in a collision with an impaired driver, who came on the wrong side of the road and struck a truck I was driving. Even though it was his own doing (I came to a complete stop when I saw him continuing forward in my lane, however he accelerated) as according to the LAW. The man was critically injured and appeared to instantly die.I couldn’t rest,and it was traumatic,… I’ve seen my own father die(natural death) but to witness this was very traumatic. Even though I found out the next day that he hadn’t died, but was very near death, it took them weeks to comfort me,and even now when I speak the horrible look on his face and unresponsive body come to mind. So do try and put me in your twisted, ill informed categories.
Next I hear you mention Lord, Lord, Maker et al more than three or four times. Perhaps you would do good to consult your “Lord” more often. You will find several references that show that no one sin is greater than the other, and the wages of sin is DEATH. The murderer, the theif, the adulterer, the liar and the blasphemer are are equal in that perspective, and they all meet the same end result. You have committed at least two of those, so are you saying that you are looking at putting yourself to death in the name of good and evil also upholding the ruling of the Lord? Or are you again speaking of a topic which you have limited or no knowledge about?
Gang membership? Have you ever been in one locally? Do you know firsthand what’s involved, or are you quoting from what you read in a newspaper or your government (who you arecomplaining about) info? A lot of these guys didn’t start out killing and fighting. As a matter of fact, right up to the early 2000′s, 42 residents (the young folk hang together and thus are “the crew”, “possie” and nowdays “gang”) were able to go and socialize in Middle Town (parkside for those who don’t know). If you made trouble in either neighbourhood you could possibly have trouble in both. As a matter of fact all of Pembroke had a loose alliance of sorts, and this extended to other parts of the island via individual friendships. All of that changed and quickly deteriorated when one or two started bickering and crossed each other. A person got killed from this and all the tit for tat killing began. Many people have tried to talk to the ones they personally know, and are confronted with your mentality, and perspective almost word for word. They too believe in an eye for an eye, they too believe that the person who killed their “innocent ” friend shoud die. They too believe that prison is nothing (insubstantial as well, just like you). They too believe that the guy who shot their mate was evil, and the only justice is to kill that person. They too believe that that scenario is played out as a war.They too believe that it’s up to them as the authorities are “too soft”. They also believe that people like you who call them evil and say they deserve what they get are scum and the enemy. Does it make them right? NO! Does it make either of you right? NO!
I have taken my time to highlight at least three topics that you spoke at length about, and factually demonstrated (not levveled opinions and accusations) not only your limited knowledge, but also your broad close mindedness on such matters. Although your speech can provide assent to an angry vengful and upset mentality, it does more harm than good, because it gives assent and alignment to the very thing that causes the loss of innocent lives. That is the bigger picture here.
If my son killed your son, and your brother killed my son (for killing his “innocent” nephew) and my older son killed your brother (for killing his “baby brother”),so you killed my older son (for killing your innocent” brother) causing me to come to kill you (for killing my “innocent” older son who had nothing to do with the original killing between two people), would I be right (eye for eye,..remember)? Who would be good and who would be evil? Where would this end if I successfully kill you? Should both our mothers not mourn or feel a loss, because both of us were killed for killing someone else? Are you willing to tell a mother that she should not mourn her dead son? Answer the quesions (which you try so hard to ignore), as these are the life questions that come with the death penalty, in fact any sort of killing.
Lastly, no matter what drivel you spout about your peceived justice, good, evil, etc… There is no possible way to endorse killing if you have regard for human life. If you respect God, Life, innocence, and even the Law (which you strangely call upon yet denounce at the same time) you will already know that it is NO-ONE’s right to take another’s life. It’s that simple.
Look Mr. Smith! White Christ, Justice and others have smacked the gavel of truth down on your candy ass! (in the voice of the Rock)
Um, um. Pebble,.. The real truth: there will be no death penalty, because the real boss (the U.K) took it off the books,and Bermy simply doesn’t have a choice. End of discussion, quit bitchin’ and find something constructive to do.Opinions are like a$$holes..everybody has one, but most of them are sh*tty!
Apparently at least one jabroni on this blog has two a$$holes
and IT DOESN’T MATTER if the UK took it off the books. The struggle to bring it back transcends country borders. There are millions who are calling for the same thing in the UK too. So all those murdering jabronis you like to sympathise with may have the capital smacketh layethed DOWN on their candy asses soon.
How can you compare your dying father (an innocent man I assume) to a dying murderer or rapist. Sounds like your objectivity and judgement is clouded by emotionalism.
Rock, I understand now why it’s so difficult to make sense to you. You can’t read. Take you time, sound out the letters and use the punctuation, then you will get things in the proper context. I did not compare my father’s natural death, to that of a murder victim. I illustrated the difference in personally seeing a natural death versus witnessing someone else who almost died and how it affected me. This was to directly address the stupid accusation that I have no regard for life, and is now being referenced against you small mindedly calling me a murderer simply because I am showing how two wrongs will never make a right.
You too like Justice, and White Christ speak on things with limited facts, and read words that aren’t written in commentary. Your degree of ignorance is unique among you three,(I won’t be at all surprised if you were the same person with three “pen names”. FYI, there are millions against the death penalty in the UK.which is also bound by the European Convention against the death penalty, so regardless, you are not getting the death penalty back in Bermuda. And that’s the real smack down, Rock smoker!
CARLTON SMITH you have yet to come up with any sort of solution for the victims family. Your speaking about a truck accident verses cold blooded murder? Are you serious?? Who’s not going to feel bad when an accident happens any good human being will feel that way. If you was evil you would not have put on the brakes and laughed as you callously drove over the innocent biker and never looked back. This is the mentality of a murderer, LETS USE YOUR ANALOGY.
IF a guy is in a car and is running over people killing them and we manage to stop the car do we punish the car or the person driving the car??? The car is impounded and the person is taken away awaiting his or her fate. the person is the soul of the car, will the car kill again..no will the person who was driving the car kill again…yes he would.
Now the car is like the human beings body the soul is driving the body we take the soul away from the body and let it return to God and we impound the body in a graveyard
Now if you check the soldiers of the army that’s DEFENDING their country never will you see huge psychological effects on their part. The psychological only affects the army men who is invading and killing innocent men women and children. Again you make assumptions about my character which you know nothing of, you have no idea what I’ve experienced what so ever.
Im sure if you saw my stomping your son you would issue a beating on me to the best of your ability and you would not feel a huge remorse because you would be protecting your family.
Yes the Bible says the wages of sin is death and if you studied scripture then you would know that that is not A LITERAL meaning. Wages is a compensation a payment so the payment of sin is death. NOT PHYSICAL DEATH spiritually and mentally and morally. So if you commit sin then you are spiritually DEAD, You are MORALLY DEAD YOU ARE MENTALLY DEAD, ok do you get it you understand now. LYIYING TO A PERSON IS VERY BAD BUT GUESS WHAT THE VICTIM YOUR LYING TO STILL LIVES you however are morally dead when you become a liar.
Stealing from someone is bad but guess what the victim you stole from still lives, and you are morally dead and spiritually dead to be stealing from someone.
Adultery is bad but the victim is still alive yet the adulterer is morally and spiritually dead!
MURDERING somebody is bad HOWEVER the victim is no longer alive THEY ARE GONE so not only has your action been a mental and spiritual death you actually by your own hands caused the death of an innocent person.
YES OR NO IS GANGS A GOOD THING?? A simple question it cant be in-between its either its good or its bad. And nothing but bad come from gang life.
Now show me how my speech shows anger or vengeful mentality?? Because I agree with capitol punishment im angry now? Im vengeful? And because I’m in agreement with that , that gives rise to the very thing that causes the loss of innocent lives????? (O_0 ) WHAT?????? SO ME LOOKING AT CAPITOL PUNISHMENT AS A SOULUTION GIVES RISE TO THE BEHAVIOUR OF A MURDERER TO TAKE INNOCENT LIVES??? Speechless…………………..
In your botched up analogy your son killed my son, so that would make your son an evil person. You son would be established as evil and if you defend you son then you are defending a evil person and you chose the side of evil. Why BECAUSE YOUR SON WOULD HAVE MURDERED MY SON 1ST. Your son would be evil plain and simple and if I caught and killed him and you decided to take up then you are defending your evil son. I will take great pleasure in defending good and would meet my God with a smile if I should die by your evil hands . I don’t think you would be able to say the same when its all said and done because you would be defending a wrong!
Yes the family of the murderer should morn their dead son but they should also (if they are good people) thank God that he was taken out of the earth for his wicked ways.
I don’t endorse that a murderer should be able to live his life after taking a life, I have high HIGH regard for human life and in order to save human life we get rid of those who don’t value human life at all. And murderers don’t value human life. And human life should not be locked in a cage for a long period of time treated like an animal. Now if you believe that it is no ones right to take another’s life what do you say of those who make it their right to take another’s life??? What do you say of those murderers who make it their right to take another life, you think you should keep the same position and say ..oh well he’s a vicious murderer well he is human lets just put him in jail and get the parents of the victim to pay for him to live. Oh and if the victim has little children when they get older they can help to pay for their daddy’s killer to live and eat ………(O_0 )????
@Justice, it’s been a long tedious road trying to make sense to your contrary, narrow mind, but you’re slowly getting the picture. Thank you for your opening line in which you demonstrate that you finally realize that I am in no way a callous, cold hearted person, and it was wrong of you to call me evil and murderous. I guess it takes 6000 words to make one point with you, but progress is progress no matter how slow. Now keep on taking little bites so you can properly digest the context and stop twisting your own mind.
The wages of sin is death literally. Even if a man has a spiritual death, he becomes coldblooded, and begins to have no regard for human life. This is the murderer you say that you want put to death. A liar is equally as dangerous, for many innocents have been killed on account of lies.A thief will sometimes kill in an attempted robbery. He could also be killed by his victim. Adultry has costed many people their lives, for the heart is a treacherous thing and just like you they felt the killing was justified. You are not the only one who makes their own juistice, and each time that has happened there has been chaos.
You repeated state and quote an eye for an eye, a life for a life, scumbag etc… This is vengence and anger plain and simple.
Yes it’s true, nothing good comes out of gangterism. And gangster isn’t just a name or an area, it’s a mentality, and it is exactly like yours. So, as you say nothing good will come out of your way of thinking.
I won’t write long this time, because your comprhension is limited, and you have proven several times that anything more than 300 words leaves you struggling to keep in context. But hear this: your talk is in vain, because Bermuda is not getting the death penalty plain and simple. The ruling country and the world leaders have already decided and established that, so it’ really a waste of time ranting about it. You can of course take to the street and protest / riot, at which time armed forces and their weapons will make the points I attempted to get you to understand in a much more deadly way.
Carlton Smith , never did i say you was evil or a murderer. Now you have yet to answer the question that i gave to you. So your style of debate is to insult a person rather than continue an intellectual disscussion?? A fool immediately shows his anger but he that dissembles injuries is wise. And heres another one for you to ponder on
“Insults are the arguments employed by those who are in the wrong.”
So then… Use some of you wordplay to reference facts and statistics as is proper an any true debate.You have credited no source, merely beleiving that if it’s your OPINION then it’s fact. As for baseless, that’s highly inaccurate, your constant self contradictory diatribe, is a living testament to every word I said about you.You have a very good thesaurus, but have yet to grasp the concept of context. It simply eludes you and it is extremely evident in your commentary.
Justice, use of the word debate, indicates order, or at least a semblance of order. You have contradicted yourself several times which in a proper debate would constitute concession. In your second commentary you referred to me as evil and having murderous ideology, thus defending murderers, which is why I went through great lengths demonstrating my regard for human life, even down to personal circumstance. I have not insulted you in my post, merely descibed the way of thinking you demonstrated. As someone who doesn’t know you personally, I will take the liberty of assuming you’re a good person, until you prove otherwise. I am in no way condoning making a war about this. My official position is that all human life is precious and no human, has the right to determine if another should live (YES MURDER IS WRONG, and murdering innocents is a very aggravating act).However there is a proper authority for dealing with such matters, and we are not that authority. As a man I make it a personal point to never do anything that I cannot reverse/undo in my own merit/ability. I feel that’s a pretty good standard for humans period…how about you?
Carlton Smith please quote (and not out of context) where I referred to you as evil and having a murderous ideology in my second commentary.
Human life is precious yes and the community of human beings do follow laws. And laws sometimes call for the taking of a life. NOT INNOCENT LIVES the life of one who takes a life or lives is in no way shape or form fit to take his rightful place amongst humanity. If a murderer killed your mother your father and you, your children’s mother, are you telling me that it is fair that,that person is allowed to live in a system for the rest of their life while your children and brothers and sisters and entire family work to feed and house the murderer?? WHERE THE HELL IS THE JUSTICE IN THAT??
If a person is found guilty and I mean guilty like how Jeffery dhalmer and all those ones were found guilty, there should be no waiting period they should be exterminated immediately!!!
There is no justice in letting the murderers live, the families and friends of the victim now take on the task of paying for the murderer of their loved ones to live.
In Bermuda we have murderers who are the scum of society before they killed their victim. They sold drugs used drugs and lived a vile lifestyle, now after they killed a loved one, you mean to tell me that I as a loved one not only have to pay for my loved ones funeral but I have to also pay for the scum that killed him to live????
And in jail the murderer adapts to prison life were it becomes a whole new LIFE for him….a F@#*ING LIFE THAT IM PAYING FOR.
And you think that that is right and that that is the humane way to treat a human being, well what about the victim and the victims family and friends where is the justice for them.
The authority is God and God works through PEOPLE!! AND GODS JUSTICE COMES THROUGH PEOPLE! So having a law of capitol punishment is fine with me!
Justice, God does not work through people, people work through God. God has been around and doing works long before the existance of people. God does not condone killing he is not willing that any should perish. Cain murdered Abel, and was not executed, even though A)There were humans around to complete the task, and B) God in his infinity as creator could have removed him if it was his will. Interestingly, if God condoned killing for muder etc. Why hasn’t he killed Satan the father of all of this. Jesus Christ was lied on, framed and murdered at the hands of the society, the church and the state. If God truly had your OPINiON, that would mean that most of us should either be executed, or simply not exist due to our ancestors being executed.It would be wise to leave God out of the discussion, because you cannot assign your opinion to him. He knows and sees on a level all of us have yet to comprehend.
It is an incorrect assumption to assume that every murderer was a drug dealer, gangter, or even evil up until the point of killing. Some of these murders have happened when fueds have escalated and anger/vengence has overridden sound thinking.Unfortunately it’s too late once the deed is done. This is exactly why we can’t go around thinking eye for an eye,… Or creating our own style of justice as according to our own personal standards.
Justice, your opinion is just that,..an opinion. It only provides temporary releif (if that) for families of victims. As for paying for criminals, as long as you take part in the political system. And vote,and support government etc, that will be part of the territory. Bermuda is not getting the death penalty so that itself is a moot point. You are welcome to try your form of justice on your own,…the end reult may just help you understand where I’m coming from. The solution to the whole mess is to raise awareness both in self and others, so that we can eliminate the mentality, thus preventing people becoming victims, instead of reaching and stretching for illusionary releif.I’d be the first to admit that I wanted the people who killed my kid to be dead,..in fact at the time I wanted to kill them. It was only after time, and the good sense of others showing me that nothing will ever ease the pain, and killing those people would open a new and different set of circumstances. Also as long as I harboured such feelings of revenge, I would always be hurting, because the feelings cannot be satisfied. I could have very well wasted my life trying to recoup what I simply can’t. Or instead, I can take one day at a time, and let the healing begin. My child’s killers never even went to court,..or even had a trial, much less jail. I can to this very day pursue it, but it may also consume me so that I am no use to my other children, family and even myself. If you like eye for eye, that’s on you. I wish you luck in fighting or seeking for something that simply isn’t going to happen.
Carlton Smith, 1st you still haven’t addressed or pointed out what I asked you to do but fine we will leave that alone. Now GOD DOES work through people and not vice versa, if people work through God then please give evidence about this. Because if people work through God show me where people gave the God The Creator something to do. God cannot be left out of the discussion at all, God is the FINAL JUDGE where all matters end up, however He has given us the ability to make judgments and make decisions and to make laws.
Again show me where is assumed that every murderer was drug dealer nevertheless they are scum plain and simple. It doesn’t matter how it happened the fact is if you murdered someone then you are evil bottom line plain and simple. The fact that they are still living and their victims family is paying for them to live is wrong!!
Just,…. You really do have it backward.All things people accomplish are through God, even if it by mere allowance. God works independantly of people, which is why out of seven days of creation, people onlycame about after the third day.God has made parts of exixtance that people have never even seen. Further there are parts within your own body (brain) which you have yet to see/ discover. Therefore it is not only incorrect to state that God works through people, it is vainglorious as well. Man has taken it upon himself to set up judgements and law. And man made law is flawed. Man made judgement is flawed. The biggest example is the systematic MURDER of Christ. Man’s judgement, and law did that! If you are really radical and insistant on not paying to house murderers, then you need to stop paying taxes.But as you say, you believe in man’s law and ability to judge, therefore you need to respect your own loyalties. Man’s law has abolished capitol punishment. Bermuda has been given this directive from their ruler the UK,and the UK has been given that directive by the EU under the New World Order. Therefore the law and ability of man as allowed by God as you just now and repeatedly state that you believe in has ruled that there will be no eye for an eye killing. You can of course kill the person that you feel murdered your loved one, at which time you will either take the 25years free housing and meals as according to the law that you profess to believe in, or kill yourself as according to the OPINIONyou claim to uphold.Meanwhile, God marches on with his will and is NOT assigned with or subject to your OPINION.
Yes my opinion is my opinion I know that and it provides RELIEF for the loved ones and Justice, will a person get over the fact that their loved one was murdered, most likely never will a person get over it.
Should a person have to pay for their loved ones funeral and then a commit to a life time of paying for the murderer to live and eat (think deeply about that). You said raise awareness..nothing is more clear and people are more aware that murderers are getting away with murder and we are paying for them to live!
It is not an illusionary to have capitol punishment yes your relief would be the fact that the murderer was caught and put to death, your pain would be that you would never see your loved one again. Your TRUE JUSTICE would be that you as the victims father,mother, brother,cousin, uncle ect.ect… do not have to take on the responsibility of housing the murderer and feeding and providing for him to live for the rest of his life. And that the murderer is gone back to God for the final judgment! But here on this earth he gets no sympathy because he showed no sympathy and he must go to God to answer for what hes done. NOT GET THE VICTIMS TO PAY FOR HIS COST OF LIVING FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE.
My condolences to you and your family for your son. If you know who murdered your son then it is in every way your duty your obligation to make sure that individual is brought to justice. You must pursue it, if not, then that means a murderer is walking around right now and will kill again if given an opportunity. Its not about fighting for something that isn’t going to happen but what you will have is people taking justice in their own hands. I will be damned if someone murders my children and I have to pay for them to live ..hell no. If the opportunity presents its self and I catch them before anybody else then I know what must be done.
There is no way a victims family should pay for the murderer to live..no way!
If the opportunity presents its self and I catch them before anybody else then I know what must be done. (Copied and pasted from your commentary), is exactly how and why Bermuda is experiencing so many shootings and such. Most of them feel the same way as you about losing the loved ones they grew up with, etc. Do you know that the Law (of man) that you say you believe in classifies any extrajudicial killing as murder? That is to say, if you killed your brother for killing your mother, then in the eyes of the law, both you and your brother are muderers. Of course as you have demonstrated several times you have a different opinion from the law (and you also believe that the law is a God given ability), however it is extremely evident from your commentary that even you should question your opinion because it opposes your beleifs, thereby displaying confusion, or at best contradiction.