Videos: Town Hall Meeting On Term Limits

February 13, 2013 | 146 Comments

[Updated with full video of event] This evening [Feb 13] a Public Forum on Term Limits is being held at St. Paul’s Centennial Hall. The panelists are Minister of Home Affairs Michael Fahy, Shadow Minister of Home Affairs Walter Roban, BIU President Chris Furbert, President of the Bermuda Employers Council Keith Jensen, President of the Chamber of Commerce Ronnie Viera and businessman Michael Ross.

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Last month Minister Fahy said Government will eliminate the Term Limit Policy, and the subject has been discussed widely since. You can view our past coverage of the elimination of term limits here.

Update 7.30pm: At this stage – we give up on the stream due to connection issues, and will upload some ‘regular’ video later.

The forum is quite well attended; by the end of the night all the 300-odd seats were taken and people were standing around the side and back of the room. The Q&A session saw a lively exchange between the audience and the panelists, with audience members offering a wide range of opinions and Minister Fahy often being put on the ‘hot seat.’

Update #1: 20 minutes of ‘normal video’ of the Q&A portion is below

Update #2: 34 minute video showing part two of the Q&A portion is below

Update #3: 27 minute video showing part three of the Q&A portion is below

Update #4: 20 minute video of the beginning of the Town Hall [panelists presentations]

Update #5: 22 minute video of part #2 of the beginning [panelists presentations]

We have removed the 2.5 hour live stream replay as it is of very questionable quality, but if anyone wishes to access it, the replay can be found here.

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Comments (146)

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  1. Chris Famous says:

    Will all of the Video be uploaded?

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    • Bernews says:

      Not too sure if we will be able to all upload the whole video as its a massive file and will take us all day to do that. Right now we are trying to focus on posting some of the Q&A, since the stream quality is so low its annoying to watch...

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      • Bernews says:

        We stand corrected - the cameraman thinks he can get the entire video up, just may take some time, and we may not get it done until later today.

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    • great attendance says:

      there was not an empty seat in the house. standing room only.

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  2. craig looby says:

    another public forum where the public was invited to email in comments and questions and only selected emails were read... The moderator didnt submit my comments and questions......

    The OBA has to realize....they do not have a mandate to do as they please.....only one third of the population put them into power, with one third voting for the PLP and one third, having no confidence in this political governance system, and expressed that by not voting.

    On issues of national interest the OBA has to inform the population, and consult them on matters...then make decisions based on the wishes of the general population..not just the say so of the so called stake holders...who dont speak for the general population...but a segment of it.

    This meeting should have been held for public input before the minister made this announcement on the end of term limits.

    There should be no end to IB term limits unless IB is prepared to enter into legal agreements to aggressively search out and train Bermudans, that have aptitude and entry level certifications for job posts.... I have have no problem with ending term limits for the IB sector...if IB is willing to do its part.

    There should be no removal of IB for the other job sectors...UNTIL the flaws in immigration law...work permit laws...and the employment act 2000 are fixed and all loop holes removed and Bermudian jobs fully protected.

    The BIU developed a presentation that detailed numerous reforms that should have been made under the last administration and the BIU should be presenting that document to the OBA, so that the reforms can be made ...and term limits can be ended.

    How many people are working in the immigration and work permit departments and are they under manned to do a proper investigation and enforcement job...and for how long have they been under staffed?

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    • Curious says:

      Do you have any idea how IB works? To even mention the BIU and IB in the same breath is ridiculous!
      If you force IB to bow to your laws and 'aggresively search out' Bermudians without letting them have work permits they will leave. And oh, they already go to extraordinary lengths to get Bermudians hired, as do the Bermudians that work for these companies. The problem is when you have people who feel like they are entitled to a job or who feel like they are qualified when they may not be. Do you require these companies to keep dead weight around just to satisfy you?

      I don't agree with Minister Fahy's removal of term limits. I believe that he should have segmented the economy and removed them for IB only and not for the rest of the economy.

      We have thousands of Bermudians out of work, the majority of whom aren't in the IB sector!

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      • craig looby says:

        only non bermudians say bermudians are not entitled to a job in bermuda....or a bermudian who is anti bermudian.....and obviously u didnt bother to comprehend what I have written, cause i clearly didnt mention the biu and IB in the same breath.

        Nor did i mention that IB take on bermudian staff who are not qualified....learn to read.

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        • Building a better Bermuda says:

          I am a bermudian, and I wouldn't hire me if I had the attitude that I was entitled to a job, attitude is as important as qualifications. The notion of entittlement is one that is rotting Bermuda's viability to provide a qualified workforce for our guest companies.

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          • CongressNot says:

            Well attended? It was overflowing, standing room only. 75% of those in attendance or more wanted term limits to be reinstated.

            There were a few oba supporters that were irritated when the moderater tried to read the email questions.

            Nana Peggy was treated unfairly when she was not allowed to speak her mind. It was unfair because Andrew Simons dominated the mike with several question trying to make the shadow minister look stupid. Andrew ended up looking as the privillaged international business first instead of putting bermudians first with his query about a woman that could try to train Bermudians in her trade instead of hiring foreginers

            Minister Fahy's high and mighty attitude did not set well with the most. He had a do as I say attitude and obviously wasn't answering the questions about the vision for Bermudians.

            The right side of the panel were all children of status bermudians who obviously didn't one hoot about protecting bermudians children.

            When asked if he Fahy agreed with Mr Branco's zenophobia statement, he agreed.

            When Fahy was asked why the hurry without consultation, he answer was also agressive.

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            • Mad Dawg says:

              Are the "children of status Bermudians" not 'real Bermudians' then?

              I guess you would include the children of the last few Premiers in that blanket racist statement.

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              • Clear Picture says:

                Dum Dawg, they are Bermudians but their alligience are not with Bemudians from their obvious stance, Fahy, Jenssen and Viera all for IB 1st.

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                • Zombie Apocalypse says:

                  Dum Clear Picture, you are a sickening racist.

                  I guess you must feel the same way about the nonBermudian spouses of Paula Cox, Alex Scott, Ewart Brown? And about Paula Cox herself, who was not born here? Or is your racism confined to white people or OBA people only?

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            • Argosy says:

              It was a BIU forum and the BIU made sure their rank & file turned out and the result was obvious....as confirmed by your comments.

              Did the PLP consult the Bermudian people before introducing a cruise ship gambling Bill in the House? Oh, and did they consult us on Term Limits?? And....how about boundary changes, the Uighurs, do I need to go on???

              You lost the last election! Get over it.

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              • mike jackman says:

                Correction...the PLP did consult all stake holders in the creation of term limits..IB included...that was said last night...Boundary changes are written into our Constituion...DUH!! Rean and understand before you make comments...and the majority of the people in attendence, where not BIU rank and file....get a life u fool

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                • Argosy says:

                  Correction. The Shadow Minister stated that IB was consulted but the people of Bermuda were NOT. The Constitution Order/Act of 1968 can and is amended by the Legistature to define the areas of the constitutions - did the PLP consult the people of Bermuda before the last boundary changes? You conveniently brushed over the Uighurs....How many BIU members - you mmust know since you are not a fool and have a life!!

                  Lighten up, MJ.

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                • Pastor Syl Hayward says:

                  @ Mr. Jackman: The PLP consulted stakeholders in 2000/2001. They didn't act until 2006/2007 and enacted Term Limits without finding out if the stakeholders still were of the same mindset. What was also clear last night is that by 2006, the PLP were advised that Term Limits would not accomplish its original purpose, and was, in effect, useless - except that it alienated the IB community. 5 - 6 years can be a very long period given the volatility of the world markets over the last 10 years.

                  I agree that the OBA did themselves no favours by not providing the public with their reasoning prior to putting through the change, but I can also understand their feeling it to be imperative to begin to create a more welcoming climate to businesses that might be trying to decide where to establish a domicile.
                  If I were in a position of authority, I would take this opportunity to set a truly new and amazing precedent in Bermuda politics. I would apologize to the people for not bringing them in on the ground floor, make it clear that I still believed I did the right thing by ending term limits (which even Shadow Minister Roban agreed with)but that I missed a couple of steps. I would also make it clear that I have learned a crucial lesson and would not make the same mistake again.
                  This action would do several things. It would show the major difference between the OBA and the PLP, who never apologized for anything or ever admitted they were wrong or that they had made a mistake. It would ease the tension among the people who became very sick and tired of being dictated to under the last regime. It would instantly remove the stigma of arrogance, and it would indicate an understanding that the government is there in service, not in power.
                  Everyone is entitled to make a few mistakes when learning something new. Just admit it, take responsibility for it (the mature thing to do) and move on in a more enlightened way.

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            • Bermudian Mom says:

              To clarify - Minister Fahy refused to state his position on Mr. Branco's statement in the OBA press release. He kept saying that he did not have the context of the question to form an opinion. Something I personally found hard to believe. It was an official press release for the OBA - how could he not understand the context to which it related.

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            • dthtoo/ says:

              Nana Peggy has given me permission to share her full comments with you.

              It reads:

              To the gathering:
              Pre-election promises made by the OBA and easily broken following. They promised transparency, inclusiveness and accountability in governance and you’ll agree they haven’t kept any of them. Family, no one is our friend who demands our silence, or denies us our right to know truths, to speak for ourselves and make wise decisions which will foster progress, growth and, above all, our survival. Therefore, you must remain mentally vigilant because they have a greater intention in mind, and that is to secretly devise strategies to permanently keep you locked out of the job market by allowing their family and friends to, in-your-face, hire skilled outside help and will lie to you that there are no qualified Bermudians. Let’s not forget those persons who come cheaper than gas. We all see the evidence of this all over the island.

              Can you not see that the OBA rules are simple: They lie to us, we know they’re lying, they know we know they’re lying, but they keep lying to us and some of you keep right on believing them, and because of this we find ourselves in this place in this space tonight. Some of you believed in them and their slogans: Vote for CHANGE, Vote for JOBS in the months preceding the 2012 General Election, and on the day of - with a clear conscience, a smile on your face for them and a smirk for the PLP, you voted for them, whilst others chose to remain at home – not on the job because you didn’t have a job then and you still don’t have one today. The fallout from your actions is that we’re all paying a price. CHANGE isn’t always a good thing. You knew what you had in the PLP, but you didn’t know what you were going to get from the OBA until they revealed their hidden secrets and surprises. I am aware that some of you are now remorseful for your actions. Too late! I sincerely hope that you have learnt from your mistakes and will never, ever repeat them again. Hell, aren’t you sick and fed up with having to struggle for a normal and peaceful existence? I sure am!

              To Mr. Fahy:
              Mr. Fahy, a public forum such as this would have been the most sensible path to have trod prior to venturing off and abolishing the ‘Term Limits’. You put the cart before the horse. I want you and your secret, self-serving stakeholders and IB-ers to know that this stupid and selfish move has created another unnecessary stressor in the lives of African Bermudians. Additionally, it has increased our level of frustration. Perhaps I am anticipating too much – knowing that your blues ain’t like ours, in that before this night is done you will understand, with all gravity, the burden you have inflicted upon the children whose foreparents suffered long and hard building this island, at no pay. Yes, building this island, a few centuries ago, into the kind of place that the world covets and you, Mr. Fahy, enjoy with your entitlement attitude.

              Before I take my seat, read my lips and hang on to my words: I am calling for the reinstatement of the ‘Term Limits’ Policy, and an indepth review be meticulously executed, not by your secret, self-serving stakeholders and IB-ers, but by the real stakeholders – the ordinary and extraordinary men and women on this rock who genuinely have the highest good of every Bermudian in mind – from the guttermost to the uttermost.

              Reinstate the ‘Term Limits’ Policy NOW!

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          • Proud Bermudian says:

            Can you tell me what your definition of entitled is? If I am Bermudian and I attend University overseas, receive 3.3 GPA when I graduate, receive an award for one of my internships in Boston and internships I did locally I do expect that I should be able to get a job in my field especially when there are jobs available.

            When I first returned from University I could not find work even though I applied for a lot of of jobs. One particular job I went for an interview, was told I did excellent and asked me to come back for a second and third and also went back for a test that they did for the job in which I was told I did excellent. A week or so later they called me to tell me that even though I was exceptional that they were going to give the post to someone in house. I know this person was non Bermudian because if not they would had no need to advertise the job. I am saying all this to say that yes Immigration Department does have rules regarding work permits, but it is flawed. Companies have to advertise and interview and say that no Bermudian was qualified and ask for an extension on a work permit.

            Secondly I am sick to death of people classifying Bermudians as having poor work ethic, yes some Bermudians do, as well as some expats workers. I have worked for two companies that have Bermudian staff who work hard every day at their jobs and they watch the expat boss in charge sit back, not put in any effort and receive a paycheck and the praise.

            I am asking for Bermudians especially to stop classifying your fellow people as not having work ethic. There are Bermudians working hard every day. If you come across a Bermudian with poor work ethic I challenge you to call them on it.

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            • George says:

              Unfortunately to hear Proud Bermudian - but the problem is not with term limits but with the work permit process/policy as stated by the Minister it needs to be tightened up and enforced a lot better than it is.

              Did you go back to Immigration and ask them to investigate/contest the appointment of a non-Bermudian instead of yourself into the position? If not why not? I appreciate you shouldn't have to do this (this is were tightening the policy/increasing penalties comes into play) - but at the end of the day if employers are allowed to get away with this sort of behavior they will.

              How many jobs have you applied for and been rejected since you graduated? Just the one/many are they all under the same circumstances?

              As far as Bermudian work ethic of course all Bermudians don't have a poor ethic but a lot do and unfortunately it is a real problem for employers. You may not see/have seen it in the industry you work in but I can tell you first hand that for blue collar/semi-skilled/skilled labour jobs it is an issue.

              I know first hand of numerous cases where Bermudian employers have made serious efforts to employ Bermudians. In one instance a pool cleaning company the person hired six different Bermudians - gave them all the relevant training and none lasted more than three- six months. In that three to six months the owner had to fork out thousands of dollars to cover for mistakes that the individuals made more than once.

              The same story repeated with an office cleaning company except in this case the Bermudians didn't turn up for work when asked, consistently showed up late with attitude etc. etc.

              So you can imagine as a Bermudian business owner to avoid permanently damaging your own companies reputation you would need to look for employees who are going to 'stick to the wicket' and provide an honest days work for an honest days pay - that's work ethic!

              Ask yourself this - as it costs an employer thousands more dollars to hire a non-Bermudian than Bermudian (work permit/resettlement/return airfare costs) why would any employer choose to hire a non-Bermudian over a Bermudian if they both had the same qualifications and experience?

              Let me balance that by stating I do know of one service company who hires all Bermudians - but this is an exception in my experience!

              So the issue is bigger than one or two individuals who you can set straight by challenging them about their poor work ethic - the generosity/patience of an employer only goes so far and at the end of the day if an employee is affecting their bottom line and the reputation of their company they are going to continue to find a means to remedy the situation.

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              • Proud Bermudian says:

                Unfortunately to hear proud Bermudian, clarification on this statement.

                Did I go back to immigration not at the time I was young (20) and didn’t know my rights. I have only learned what they are as I have matured. I agree I should not have to go to Immigration and report the company in order to get a JOB IN MY OWN COUNTRY. Best believe the person I am today I would report the company.

                In regards to the industry I have worked in. I have worked at Southampton Princess, Works and Engineering, drug and alcohol facility, private sector. I have worked in many different sectors and have had direct access to people from all walks of life. You have missed my point. Just like you have seen poor work ethic amongst Bermudians, I have seen the same poor work ethic amongst expat workers. All I am saying is I wish people will stop saying Bermudians have poor work ethic and use as an excuse not to hire. Tell me something Bermudians you hire do you check their references before giving them the job? Do you hire them because you know they are less skilled and can pay them less money and provide less benefits. Do you give them the proper training within your company to do the job? Are there opportunities for advancement?

                Question in regards to why companies would pay thousands to bring in a worker, because in SOME INDUSTRIES you might pay money to bring them here, but once they are here you pay them less money and have them working longer hours. A Bermudian might not and can’t afford to work under those conditions when they have a family to feed and need time to spend with them. When an expat worker comes to Bermuda their purpose is to be here for a time to make money and go back to their country.

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    • John Does says:

      Under staffed, you have got to be joking. Based on the volume of work permits they have to process prior compared to 5 years ago, and the amount of staff which probably did got laid off, do you think their work load increased that much. Its only a shame you could not outsource the department to a 3rd party where real controls and procedures were in place. Would a be a lot faster, accurate, and a hell of a lot cheaper.

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      • craig looby says:

        Then what are the numbers?...the minister was asked the same question by an audience member whos in the media and he couldnt even answer as to how many people are working to police immigration and work permits.

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    • IB says:

      I work for one of the big international companies. 60% of the people are Bermudian. All entry-level positions are occupied by Bermudians or spouses. The only exceptions are in accounting and actuarial where there just aren't enough Bermudians with the designations that the law requires. Where are the 40% of foreigners? They almost exclusively occupy jobs requiring at least 7-10 years of specialized experience and advanced degrees that can only be obtained abroad.

      So at least this company is doing everything you asked. And the ABIR stats say most companies are similar in terms of Bermudian employment. Unfortunately a company can't take someone from entry level to a job requiring 10 years experience and an advanced foreign degree in a matter of just a couple of years.

      IB is doing its part.

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      • not true says:

        There are several Bermudian in the accounting and actuarial field that do not have jobs. Yea but in 10 years or less they should be able to train several Bermudians to do any job. We need you all, but we need to give qualified, educated Bermudians jobs 1st.

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        • Shooter says:

          I would like to meet that actuary who has no job. Stop posting things for argument's sake. Insurance Companies can't even get enough qualified actuaries the world over and have to bring in people those who are still doing their exams and you are there blatantly lying that there are Bermudian actuaries who have no jobs? Shame on you.

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          • so agree says:

            There are non qualifieed actuaries bermudians, who studied it.....but not qualied with professional desgination. I know a few.People dont understand that you may studied to be an accounting. Have a master or bachelors in accountancy, doesnt mean your a qualified or in some case, be hired to be an accountant. In these days you can't even be a book keeper without having some qualification.

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        • HP Sauce says:

          Just because they are Bermudian does not mean they should get a job. I work for a large insurer here and we have had to turn down homegrown accountants and (less so) actuaries because they came in with the attitude they were owed a living. No one is owed a living, you have to work for it. The alternative may not be to hire a non-Bermudian then, but if that person is going to disrupt the whole floor, one of many Bermudians and non-Bermudians, then the response has to be to not hire at all.

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          • dh#1 says:

            @HP Sauce. "Just because they are Bermudian does not mean they should get a job". Are you out of your damn mind! Bermudians should be given the first opportunity to any job in this Country! I've seen and experience enough in my life time to honestly say that many qualified bermudians with strong work ethic where turned down for a job for a non-Bermudian! Goal post kept shifting! Half of these non-Bermudians are still here...years later, with an attitude that they are entitled and owed a living, and HERE! Regrettably the Immigration Board has failed many qualified, hard working Bermudians. And, it will probably get worse now!

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            • Jeff Dwyer says:

              That's the problem - Bermudians should only be getting jobs they are qualified for, and capable of doing. I see so often Bermudians wanting to be CEO of a Reinsurance company when they can barely tie their shoelaces! The world owes you nothing, its up to you to go out and get it, stop being so needy, stand up and work for what you want in life, NOTHING SHOULD BE GIVEN TO YOU.

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        • BTW says:

          There are only 2 fully qualified Bermudian actuaries. And both of them are working. John Rayner and Gina Blakeney Smith. Know before you speak.

          Like an Accountant, you cannot CALL yourself an Actuary unless you are one. You MUST have proper designations issued by the proper statutory and qualifying bodies. Not just "anyone can do actuarial work."

          Particularly as less than 25% of Bermudians between the ages of 25-34 even have a college degree as opposed to the OECD countries where 40% of this same segment have a college degree...

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          • Joonya says:

            You're talking out of your @ss "only 2 fully qualified Bermudian Actuaries" I have a cousin who is fully qualified actuary. Or are you just mentioning Black Bermudian Actuaries..?

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            • so agree says:

              I was just going to say the same thing....

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            • Brad says:

              You obviously have no clue what an Actuary is and your cousin does not have his Fellowship Designation. It is VERY easy to look up the list of Actuaries in Bermuda (and the whole world, in fact) on the Actuarial database. Quit talking out your arse. You look like a total fool.

              Know the facts before you post!

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            • Mad Dawg says:

              It's easy to see who the qualified actuaries are. There are lots of people who do actuarial work in Bermuda, but are not actuaries.

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        • Mad Dawg says:

          And that is how it works. Young Bermudians get hired in the Uni-leaver jobs, and get experience that qualifies them to get better jobs. At some point, if they are good enough, they get those more senior jobs. I see it working like that all the time.

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        • IB says:

          In 10 years or less, you can't train a Bermuda College graduate to do an advanced and technical job that needs 10 years experience and an advanced degree like a PhD in statistics that can be obtained only from one of a handful of schools overseas. There are a lot of such jobs and they can be moved out of Bda if necessary.

          There are different accounting designations. One needs the right designation that the regulator requires, not just "accounting" generally.

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          • DarkSideOfTheMoon says:

            I thought PHD's were for research, not to work for international business. You would probably end up working for academia instead of sitting at a desk crunching numbers for some TPS report...

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            • Franklin jr says:

              Lots of IB companies have staff with a PhD

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              • IB says:

                Yes, many IB positions either require a PhD or find it beneficial. Particularly in statistics, math, risk science, and probability-related fields. Pricing a re/insurance policy often requires a lot of advanced statistical methods that one would learn in a PhD program.

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      • Knowthyself says:

        Of that 60 % what portion is black bermudian males?

        Just curious....

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        • IB says:

          There are several, particularly in IT. The numbers aren't reported with breakouts by race or spouse/born.

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          • Knowthyself says:

            Ok thats what I expected you to say. No surprise there.

            There are in fact many black bermudian males qualified in IT.

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    • Who feels it knows it! says:

      I got it! Thanks for saying it!

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    • Portia says:

      Craig Looby, considering that IB is the sector of our comunity that has provided the MOST scholarships and internship opportunities to young Bermudians, then I would say they have not only done their part, but gone well above what is required of them. When a company sets up shop, their main objective is to carry out business - not "aggressively search out and train Bermudians." That is not their mandate, but we still benefit greatly from their presence here - all of us do. In no other jurisdiction is international business required to do what you are suggesting.

      Furthermore, term limits was NOT abouting protecting Bermudian jobs, it was ALWAYS about preventing long term residency.

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    • Anon Ymous says:

      Craig - To put it plain and simply, without IB we have no IB jobs for Bermudians anyway; with IB we have some IB jobs for Bermudians plus, and here's the kicker, a massive revenue to the economy (payroll, permits, healthcare,etc.) as well as the trickle down boost to service industry demand / workforce (groceries, cabs, bars, restaurants, gas, etc.). By demanding that IB also train and replace the staff they choose with Bermudians, you come across as having a sense of entitlement and wanting to 'have your cake and eat it'. Now, with that said, you have to ask yourself, do we want IB or not and act accordingly.

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      • craig looby says:

        yet again...where have i stated im anti IB? if IB wants an end to term limits ....then they have to offer something as well...tit for tat...

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        • Anon Ymous says:

          .....because the massive boost to the country's economy is just not enough, right? Enjoy your cake.

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          • Brad says:

            Anon: you can't argue with STUPID! Craig and all of the others like him will never listen to reason. They're incapable of seeing past their ignorance and bull-headed beliefs. You and I, along with many other educated, intelligent and ration people like us, get it. We get it and that's all there is to it.

            When IB has had enough of this BS and they leave, people like Craig will be living under blue tarps at the beach scratching their heads still wondering where the job is that they are "entitled" to. Let's wish them luck with that and be done with them.

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            • Anon Ymous says:

              I guess people will always take things personally and remain unable to see 'the big picture'.

              I have to add though, I do agree that such a small land-mass must control population; employed Bermudians is another topic completely - a topic which work permits, properly regulated and enforced, should be quite sufficient to control without any need for term limits.

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  3. welldone says:

    I attended this forum and felt that Minister Fahy was deservedly given all he could handle. The OBA should have had a meeting like this BEFORE making the decision. Minister Fahy was told this over and over and over.

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    • Mad Dawg says:

      Can you remind me how many public forums the PLP had BEFORE they implemented term limits? Perhaps Bernews can confirm the number? Only the way I remember it, the PLP never wanted anyone else's opinion about it.

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      • Clear Picture says:

        Dum Dawg, stop the comparison, your dum a$$ was probably one of those that compared the PLP with UBP for their 14 years in office. THE OBAUBP is now government, they said what? Change, Transparency, Jobs, 2 year work permit and now what?

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      • dinosaurmedia says:

        So they did it is okay if we do it? and the goes the can being kicked down the road - hold yourself to a higher standard OBA

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        • Zombie Apocalypse says:

          As they have done. They asked for the union's input, never got a reply. Attended a BIU public forum last night, and took the nonstop abuse. I don't recall Burch doing anything of the kind.

          What did Burch mean when he said "Term limits are nothing to do with safeguarding jobs for Bermudians"?

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  4. Observer says:

    If the public only realized how much damage was done to our reputation internationally because of term limits, no one should argue that the OBA did the right thing at the right time. The damage done may not be reversible. The current debate shows only too well how the real damage was hidden from the masses. We are all suffering partly because those in charge had no clue what they were doing on this front for much too long.

    Thank you Minister for your courage on acting immediately to right this wrong.

    The work permit rules are there and have been for years. We simply need to enforce them for Bermudians to benefit. The long term residency issues could have been addresses years ago when David Ezekiel and his delegation returned from London with the solution. The Government then would not listen.

    There is nothing but good that can come out of this. The only concern is whether it may be too late.

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    • OZ says:

      please explain what damage as done. We have heard many people repeat this statement and I am yet to see any evidence to support it. It is a fact that more work permits were granted under the former government than ever before. It has already been stated by the OBA that 70% of term limits were extended so where exactly did this damage occur.

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      • dinosaurmedia says:

        Exactly more fear mongering so they can to continue to enjoy our land - and do nothing but provide anymousity amongst the people - who cant even affor to live in their OWN COUNTRY because of the inflation they have bought down on us with their PHONY US DOLLAR feeling they have us cornered and on our knees begging for their filthy hand me down money - money created from nothing by the feindishly currupt and illegitimate monetary system we all operate in i.e. privately owned central banks.

        I work in IB and our latest results were crap...term limits had nothing to do with that but if, or when we fail it is blamed on "term limits" - give me a break - some of us see through your smoke and mirrors - fear mongerers...

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      • Observer says:

        Hello Oz,

        Some of the answers have already been stated. If you want to discuss the damage done, talk to home owners who cannot find tenants (who will pay the rent on time). Talk to the many people who have lost their jobs in IB. Ask why XL house is renting much of their building to other companies and why there will soon be nearly one million square feet of empty office space in Hamilton and how that will affect restaurants, taxis, construction and repair workers, effectively all of us. Term limits did not cause it all, but based on words from IB heads themselves, Term Limits was hindering them from attracting the best talent to Bermuda and so they took them elsewhere. That is one reason why there are fewer people here and fewer jobs. The previous government messed up and their inability the recognize it validates the message they received from the voters.

        Simply look at the condition of this island at the moment and we all have our answers.

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  5. Nana Peggy [not the real one] says:

    That "public forum" was one of the most Mind boggling and ignorant experiences of my life. It was Clear long before any of the panelist's started speaking that this was NOT a public forum, but an ambush,
    The moderator was extremely biased, acting hostile towards the minister, who sat there and answered the same question over and over. Most of the people showed up had absolutely no interest in seeking information or understanding, but were more interested in propagating their already tainted view of the current Government.

    One of the panelists spent 5 of his 6 allotted minutes spitting off inspirational quotes and repeating his qualifications that had already been mentioned by the "moderator".

    During the Q&A one gentlemen led the attack against Minister Fahy, talking to him as if he were one of his mates on the street. I found that to be very disheartening and was actually considering demanding an apology on the minister's behalf. How can you expect the younger generation to respect one another if you so openly disrespect your Elected Officials??

    The "forum" almost completely unproductive with people asking the same questions over and over, Minister fahy would answer, then Walter Roban would say the same thing in a different voice and everyone started clapping.

    Forums like this are nice, But honestly if the majority of the people who show up come with the attitude that they want to hear what they want to hear, then its a complete waste of time.

    I Highly commend Minister Fahy for putting up with the onslaught of negativity. He showed true character, never once blamed any previous governments for anything,, and tried his best to articulate his point's in a way that a regular person(who is willing to listen).

    Unfortunately I feel like the whole thing was a huge waste of time, and i was shocked that so many of my fellow Bermudians were so openly boastful of their ignorance. I really hope that we can overcome this divide and actually start working together to come up with solutions.

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    • You need wake up a smell he coffee. Had he, minister , had an open forum before he made the dicision to abolish term limits then you would not have had disgruntled people.....I have worked very hard putting my children through university making sure they went to the best of schools to turn around and now say:"your degree means nothing". You will have to wait 20 years before your trained and ready for a promotion.

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      • Nana Peggy (not really tho) says:

        First of all, Every decision made will have disgruntled people. I don't know if you were at the forum, but minister Fahy made it quite clear why they went with the decision to eliminate rather than suspend the term limits.

        Think about this: If you gash your leg and are bleeding out, would you want the doctor to stand there and consult with you on how to fix it??
        The work permit policy needed reform and the amendment + eliminating the term limit policy was just the first step. There will also be more regulatory measures put in place to protect Bermudian jobs, which will take more than the first 2 months for the ministry to put in place.

        as it stood, the term limits only applied to 30% of the foreign workers here. so the problem with companies hiring foreigners over locals anyway.

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        • Bermudian Mom says:

          I was at the forum last night. Realizing you can never satisfy all of the people all the time - the reoccurring theme to me seem to be - Why not strengthen the work permit policy first before removing the term limit policy. This question was not answered to the satisfaction of the majority of the people – as I stated above - you can never satisfy all of the people all the time. Something to consider – the announcement regarding the term limit policy was in 2001 with an effective date of 2007 – 6 years. I am not anti – IB – but if they foresaw an issues with this policy, they had 6 years to speak up which was over 2,100 plus days more than was given to some of the stakeholders. Also, I recall there was a lot of discussion in the house regarding the proposed term limit.
          As stated last night, 30% of the work force are work permit holder, the problem is that the number of work permit holders is steadily increasing.
          As asked last night, what is the incentive for a company – any company not just IB – to look for a qualified Bermudian? Not truly answered.
          The question of what is the vision for Bermuda has still not been answered.

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      • Young Black Bermudian Female says:

        Reality is... we as the people look to the government to clean up messes. We always expect them to 'do something'. The previous government spent most of their efforts troubleshooting and running the country defensively while they really needed to be on the offense.

        Our new government is now on the offense and we're mad? Because they're removing term limits to encourage International Business... one of the pillars upon which this economy stands... Because more international business means more foreign capital to stimulate the economy? Or because more businesses means more jobs? What part of this is not being understood?

        The reason it is so difficult for Bermudians to get jobs immediately after their studies is because of academic inflation due to the increasingly competitive job market. The Bachelor's degree is the new High School Diploma... and this is something that's happening all over the world, not just in Bermuda. If more people sought to understand the many factors that contribute to our economy and the job market then maybe they would understand politics.

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        • George says:

          Well said YBBF - and unfortunately the continuing ignorance (ignore -ance) about the state of the local and global job markets is what will continue to lead to the perpetuation of negative sense of entitlement among many young Bermudians.

          I'll give you a personal example - I have both an undergraduate and Masters Degree from well recognised Universities in my fields of study. On seeking employment in the UK after graduating with my under graduate degree I was forced to seek work in anything I could turn my hand to, luckily I had experience in the service industry but it took me three months to find a job. After graduating with my MSc. I decided to return to Bermuda (my home) to find work - it took me almost three years and a hell of a lot of job applications/interviews etc. to find and get a job in my field of study - and I consider myself very lucky. Within that time, to make ends meet, I did any job I could - so I think we as Bermudians need to put things into perspective. Perseverance/persistence is essential and not believing you are entitled to any job is key!

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      • dinosaurmedia says:

        Had they said this they would have never been elected.

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    • Clear Picture says:

      You are clearly not Nana Peggy and must be an OBA supporter. Fahy was not disrespected, Fahy disrespected the audience time and time again with his pompous privilliaged attitude.

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      • Nana Peggy (not really tho) says:

        Youre absolutely right, Im not Nana Peggy, nor am i an OBA supporter. I used Nana Peggy's name because i gfelt her little tirade was the best summary of the event.

        I dont see how Fahy disrespected anyone, his answers were clear and factual. He sat there and answered the SAME questions over and over to people who were only there to burn him at the stake.

        "with his pompous priviiaged attitude" This shows me what i dislike most about bermudians, especially when it comes to politics; They decide everything based on how it "makes them feel"

        We need to stop thinking emotion and start thinking solution. read my reply above too. We need to stop listening with our eyes and mouth and start listening with their ears and brains.

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      • Young Black Bermudian Female says:

        Pompous privileged attitude? How was The Honourable Senator Fahy being disrespectful? He spoke like a well-educated, well-versed man, presenting facts and figures. Does that make you mad? @Clear Picture

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        • Who wrote the report? says:

          He feels disrespected because Min. Fahy didn't agree with his POV. Simple and plain.

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        • Knowthyself says:

          Was it necessary to highlight that you're a young "black" Bermudian female?

          Sorry I just find some humor in that...

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          • Zombie Apocalypse says:

            Why not? Others on here identify sometimes themselves in a similar way. What's your point? Are you suddenly interested in the issue because she disagrees with you?

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          • Young Black Bermudian Female says:

            Was it necessary for you to single out the word 'black'... when there are three other words there that mean just as much to me. I speak as a young person, I speak as a black person, I speak as a female, and I speak as a Bermudian. I gave you my age, race, gender, and nationality. I am a young, black, Bermudian female... and that was my point of view. Problem? @Knowthyself

            The funny thing is that you're assuming I'm highlighting my race when you are in fact the one who is doing so. You didn't ask me why I highlighted that I'm a female... didn't ask me why I highlighted that I'm young... Yet the moment you saw 'black' nothing else mattered?

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            • Knowthyself says:

              No problem at all.

              Perhaps age, race, gender and nationality can all have some bearing on ones opinion towards term limit policy.

              You're right though. Except for thinking when I saw 'black' nothing else mattered. But I was particularly curious as to why you stated your race :)

              After-all you could have simply stated that you're a "young bermudian female". Yet for some reason your psyche pushed even further. So I was wondering if there was a conscious motive, thats all.

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              • Mad Dawg says:

                Ask "young black mind" the same question.

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                • Knowthyself says:

                  What is a "young black mind"...?

                  Is that different from a "young asian mind"?

                  Lets apply a few stereotypes for fun

                  A young black mind will usually excel at sports (football in Bermuda) and reggae dancing.

                  And a young asian mind enjoys calculus and karaoke.

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    • LaVerne Furbert says:

      Why would someone use someone else's name. Definitely a sick individual. This is not Nana Peggy.

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      • Nana Peggy (not really tho) says:

        PLEASE don't get me started on you, madam. Ive seen you on the blogs before but yesterday was my firs time being blessed by your ignorance in the flesh. I'm putting this respectfully as i can manage, but You are a part of what is wrong with this country.

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      • Mad Dawg says:

        Don't know. Why does someone use Betty Trump's name to put out their insane rants? The real Betty, if there us one, can't be happy.

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  6. not true says:

    Chris Furbert showed how even with term limits International Business grew before the global recession. Numbers don't lie, people with special interest and the OBA platform did deceive us.

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    • Mad Dawg says:

      Term limits were introduced in 2006. The term was 6 years. IB started shrinking soon after 2006. Join the dots. As we all saw last week,, Chris Furbert isn't too sharp at counting or keeping an eye on the calender.

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      • Mad Dawg says:

        Typo. Term limits were introduced in 2000.

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        • DND says:

          In 2000 term limits were introduced yet IB jobs grew every year like "not true" stated, after 2000 until 2009 (the numbers were provided last night, and not disputed by the minister or the chamber of commerce rep). IB job numbers after in 2009 same time we entered this economic down turn.

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        • Pastor Syl Hayward says:

          Actually, they introduced the IDEA of term limits and DISCUSSED it in 2000. The actual act was not until 2006. That was what was reported last night.

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    • Portia says:

      Term limits were instituted in 2001. So, the first group in IB to feel the affects would have been in 2007; the exodus of IB did not start in September 2008 with the market crash, but before then. Despite what Chris Furbert would have you believe, this is NOT a policy which has caused IB to flourish, but only damaged it. Too much hassle and red tape.

      BTW, did Chris also mention that last year waivers and extensions were granted in 70% of all cases? Did the people at the forum feel happy about the fact that foreign workers were being allowed to stay past 6 years, or not?

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    • Who wrote the report? says:

      Term limits were in place since 2001, but were not truly enforced until the regime of Dr. Brown and Col. Burch. After their ascent to power then IB started to decline in numbers.

      And this policy was never constructed with the intent of saving Bdian jobs. It was simply put in place to prevent long term residency for guest workers.

      It is the work permits that are designed to protect Bdian jobs.

      But hey, you guys keep on attacking the industry that provides 85 cents of every dollar of Government revenue. Lets see who pays for your precious capital projects and social programs once our one source of revenue leaves. You think it is bad now? You have no idea how much worse it can get. To argue so vehemently against the attempts to rehabilitate BDA's economy shows that you are more PLPians than actual Bermudians. All politricks in the end.

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    • IB says:

      Numbers don't lie? So who do liars like numbers so much?

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  7. Quote We Dont Care What You Think says:

    I find former Minister Roban a complete contradiction, when will you PLPers take himout in a primary and save us the pain?

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  8. swing voter says:

    5 years from now one of two things will have happened. either a return to 110% over employment or utter failure. OBA are our only hope people...but with your negative attitudes, who knows if big business will want to move here again....funny how everybody abandoned the herd mentality after dec 17th and grew a pair. Most people lost jobs between 2007 and 2010...heck even chinese terrorists camp trainees were given jobs ahead of bdians....no complaints there huh?

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    • Bermudian Mom says:

      The OBA is not our only hope - we the people are the answer to our problems. The OBA can not mandate change in attitude neither could the PLP. The so called lack of work ethics would have been taught at home. That said, not all Bermudians have poor work ethics just like not all guest workers have excellent work ethics.

      I seem to recall there was alot of noise made regarding the 4 gentlemen bought into the island under the cover of night and provided with employment.

      I leave you with this quote:
      "There can only be one solution to any problem: a change in attitude and in consciousness" Gregg Braden

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  9. welldone says:

    If term limits are the problem, why did the # of bermudians increase each year from 2001 to 2008 and only go down when the recession began? Term limits had been in effect since 2002. If they were such a deterrent why didn't the numbers begin to decrease sooner?

    Also where was our invisible Premier? It would have been nice to see him there.

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    • Zombie Apocalypse says:

      Where was the invisible leader of the Opposition?

      Preparing for his voluntary drug test, I guess.

      The effects of term limits kicked in 6 years after the 6 year term limits were introduced. Duh.

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      • Concerned Citizen says:

        The esteemed leader of the opposition was in the front row........but were was the Premier? Maybe preparing for his drug test, lie detector test etc. where was Grant?

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  10. Paying attention says:

    I was in attendance last night and was impressed by many things, especially by the big turnout. Yes, Minister Fahy displayed his usual arrogance (we have seen that before) but I was impressed by both Shadow Minister Roban and Chris Furbert - by their presentations and their answers to the questions asked by the attendees. I thought I did the right thing by attending. I believe Nana Peggy's problem was that she wanted to make a statement (and a long one at that) and this was not the place for it. Contrary to her comment, I thought that the moderator did a decent job.

    We have definitely been deceived by the OBA - pay attention
    people!

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  11. CHEEE KUMS BIE says:

    I agree with not true, OBA lied and people like Nana Peggy and a few wants to try to pull the wool over our eyes, the minister did not answer any of the questions and even was blasted by one of his OWN SUPPORTERS so that should say a lot! As much as Chris Furbert grinds my gears, i had to give it to him he was on point last night and numbers don't lie....but OBA and Micheal Fhay does, and that is the truth of the matter.

    Pure deception to say they wont get rid of it and not even two months in power they remove it??????2 months verses 2 years and then looking at it...and People like Nana Peggy saying he did his best to handle all the negativity?????? Majority of the so called negativity came from OBA supporters! And it wasnt negative it is positive to hold him accountable for being a liar to us

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    • George says:

      How did you know 'they' were OBA supporters?

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      • CHEEE KUMS BIE says:

        ummmm because a lot of them expressed it, if you wasn't there then that's why you would ask such a stupid quetion

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        • George says:

          Sorry I was there and only one person that I remember stood up and categorically stated they were an OBA supporter - so instead of lying about the situation to defend your rant (a la Nana Peggy) about your dislike of the OBA government why don't you start with the truth and the reality of the situation.

          You're not happy with the Govt. ending term limits and the way they went about it? - is that what you wanted to contribute to the discussion?

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          • CHEEE KUMS BIE says:

            i met at least 30 OBA supporters who were in disagreement. no need for me to lie.

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            • George says:

              So let me see if I understand your non-lie, you met 30 people at one public forum (in a two and a half hour period) who told you that they were OBA supporters and that they disagreed with the abolishing of the term limits policy? Did I get that right?

              Tell you what I'll agree to stop dissecting your liberal use of the truth/facts and focus on the debate at hand - the potential pluses/minuses of abolishing the term limits policy if you agree to do the same!

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  12. and another one says:

    International business help's young Bermudians with scholarships, donates money to schools, public and private, and contributes to our economy. Why is the Union giving them such a hard time?

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  13. watchfuleyes says:

    There was no ambush for Mr.Fayh knows exactly how people feel about the back door move he made and he should not have been surprised by the attitudes he encountered regarding that bad decision. He was high and mighty and rather arrogant in his dealings with the people. It is clear to everybody in these forums that he does not come with an open mind but is only trying to justify his bad decision. The reason people kept asking the same questions is because he was not answering them, he thought he was but saying 'I just answered it' is not an answer. Negavity only exists because one thinks that the whole of Bermuda needs to agree with Mr.Fayh, but most of Bermuda clearly does not by the results of the show of hands. It was a waste of time for the many people who expect that when you have made a decision contrary to what the people feel is right, just or beneficial to them that the person will go back and rethink it. That decision needs to be reversed and throughtout the night he was given examples and reasons why. Some Bermudians are worried about Bermuda's reputation, well that can't feed people today can it? I would refrain from calling masses of people ignorant @Nana Peggy, not a good move. It seems to me that ignorance is bliss in someonebody's eyes, as they trudge along in it oblivious to the harm, it is going to cause his fellow Bermudians.Mr.Fayh gives one the impression that his attitude is 'He doesn't really care about the opinions of his fellow Bermudians, he will do as we sees fit.' I hope he is not speaking for the rest of the OBA because he left a sour taste in everyone's mouth. Isn't it funny how people use the saying 'they hope we can come together' when they want everyone to agree with them on an issue? Wake up Bermuda, let's not keep sitting back and allowing bad decisions to be made for us that affect us and our children in a negative way.There is power in numbers.
    Mr.Fayh gets my vote, a vote of no-confidence!
    Where and when are we going to march Bermuda ?! Enough is enough.

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    • Nana Peggy (not really tho) says:

      His Job is NOt to do things that make you feel good. His job is to Fix the economy. Dont get it twisted.

      It was not a back door move. Chris Furbert says he was given 3 working days to respond, What was his response? (i really don't know, so could someone kindly inform me)

      My big thing is, the people who attended had NO interest in understanding why he made the decision, they were only there to express how angry they were that he made it. That is no way to achieve progress.

      And you cant seriously listen to the moderator and claim it wasn't an ambush. He was the most biased and unprofessional person there.

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      • CHEEE KUMS BIE says:

        @Nana Peggy (not really thou)...shut up....The people who attended had every understanding about the subject that is why the place was packed! What he had to explain to us is why THE OBA LIED about it, he said they will look at it not get rid of it and as soon as he got in position he removed it..and he did not answer why he done it!
        And Chris Furbert was on point (and im not a fan of Chris Furbert at all!!!!!) I was there and the qouted the numbers and the numbers dont lie. And the minister would not answer why he lied!!!

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      • Bermudian Mom says:

        The problem with the 3 – 5 days notice was that everyone was under the impression that there was going to be two years to review the issue. To do an about face with only 3 – 5 days to respond is unacceptable in any arena. If the other stakeholders found that to be sufficient time to respond it makes on e wonder if the other stakeholders had an inside track and were thus able to respond within the timeframe provided.

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    • Uuuummm says:

      "Negavity only exists because one thinks that the whole of Bermuda needs to agree with Mr.Fayh, but most of Bermuda clearly does not by the results of the show of hands."

      You must be a very educated Bermudian with a lot of common-sense if you think a forum with 300 attendees represents "most of Bermuda"

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    • George says:

      Really watchfuleyes? How many people where in that room last night - 300 at most? Even if all those in the room disagreed with the removal of the term limits policy and what Minister Fahy had to say that accounts for less than 1% of the voting populace! You got a lot more rebellion building to do before you overthrow the Government - because your anger and many at the meeting last night was misdirected and disingenuous at best!

      Be honest with yourself and the readers of this blog - you're angry because the OBA are in power - lets call a spade and spade and get on with the real debate about term limits vs. work permits!

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  14. Amazed says:

    It is an accepted fact that we all need IB, but it is also a fact that they are here because they gain from it and are not here simply to do us any favors. I believe that the path we were on was simply unsustainable and I doubt whether we will ever get back to where we were before the recession. I am also not sure that we should be tying to since the world has changed dramatically. The way business is done globaly has changed and we need to create new business and not simply rely on trying to repeat what was done in the past. Both the EU and US are actively going after their companies who they think are avoiding paying them taxes by being here and if they are ever successful in their efforts all the IB will leave. One of the most important factors in determing whether a company comes to Bermuda is the cost of doing business. We need to address this in order to be competetive but how best to do that is the biggest challenge we face. The cost of goods and services rose substantially during the good times and now need to be adjusted for the present circumstances. How exactly we can accomplish this I do not know. I do know that we cannot expect to reduce the cost of labour to be competetive without somehow reducing the cost of living.

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  15. We care says:

    There is so much misinformation regarding term limits and the impact on Bermudians ability to secure jobs. The government must do a better job informing Bermudians of the pros and cons of term limits.

    For instance on one of the local talk shows a certain female caller who is well known to tthe talk show audience stated that Patrick Tannock President of XL Bermuda, who is a Bermudian would not be in that position but for term limits....which is a ridiculous statement and is insulting to him and many other Bermudians like him who have worked hard to ascend to the top for several reasons.

    1. At his level term limits were not applicable as his position was not subject to term limits as prior to the removal of term limits it was deemed a 'key' position and thus expats would also have been eligible for consideration in that role.

    2. Because anyone who knows the guy will tell you the guy is super smart, extremely well qualified, has extraordinary leadership skills, and is internationally regarded and respected and has consistently proven he has the right stuff to compete and win in the highly competive international arena.

    The removal of term limits triggers so many emotions and understandly so...we only have 24 miles and times are tough for many of us. But the point is that although the Govt. believes they are doing what they believe is in Bermuda's best interests by removing term limits they must do a better job informing all the stakeholders why they felt the need to so quickly absolutely eliminate them across the board for all areas and not just International Business. More forums like the one last night with a more balanced moderartor in different parts of the island could go a long way to securing better buy in from Bermudians.

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    • Deliverance says:

      someone needs to tell this to "the bill o'reilly of the PLP", that woman dj on one of the talk shows.. man she is tiresome and bleats on and on about Mr Tannock.

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  16. frank says:

    let me set you all staight the only way graig and his cowboys and girls are going to understand the real bermudians is we will have to take to the streets united we stand divided we will all fall

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    • Zombie Apocalypse says:

      What exactly do you mean by "real Bermudians"?

      Do I qualify?

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      • Bermyman says:

        I thinks he means, black working class BIU members and PLP supporters.

        To the PLP they seem to be the only people that matter in this country and to the rest of us they seem to be the most ignorant when it comes to 'Term Limits' and how Bermuda's economy actually works.

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      • Concerned Citizen says:

        No you don't a$%%^%^^! Send your moms my happy valentines for me......son.......

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      • Mad Dawg says:

        No, he's a racist. He thinks only black people are "real Bermudians". Standard PLP code.

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  17. It has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the Term Limits was driving International Business out of Bermuda and in the process creating jobless Bermudians. The removal of Term Limits should stop this from continuing and over a period of time lead to more International Business setting up here and creating more jobs for Bermudians.
    How difficult is this to understand...
    If the majority ofBermudians do not want International Business to grow here, I suggest that they get prepared to live with increasingly lower standards of living. This will involve less travel, poorer housing roads, bridges, ferries, buses, a devalued BD$, massive Govt. debt.. etc. etc.. But I think that this was Dr. Brown's plan all along...

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  18. I'm A Car. says:

    Many Bermudians may have studied Actu. Sc. That does not make them Actuaries. Just like going to med school does not make one a doctor. Right now I am in my garage.

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  19. Bobmarlin says:

    The PLP let foreign workers,drive trucks,work in retail and other previously closed job categories!
    NOW THEY PRETEND TO STICK UP FOR WORKERS!
    Give us a break,we are all not stupid.
    OBA continue the work of the people,and clean up the mess you inherited!

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  20. Bobmarlin says:

    Under the PLP,work permits doubled.
    You think the PLP cared about Bermudians?
    Give me a break!

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  21. campervan says:

    Lots of us Expat IB workers would be DELIGHTED to have our companies moved elsewhere. Keep it up people, looking forward to a paid relocation and a fresh change of scenery:)

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    • Spot On!!! says:

      Spot on, Mate, SPOT ON!!!! I am up for another adventure any time my company is ready to move me and my whole family! Expats all made the move HERE, we can make another move SOMEWHERE ELSE! It's not a big deal for us to move on to bigger and better things (especially when our companies pay for it!) If only Bermuda knew how close to doing this some of our companies actually are! Duh, wake up Bermuda!

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      • Knowthyself says:

        I constantly hear how we as bermudians have a sense of entitlement...and perhaps some do...But the arrogance of many expats is equally damaging as shown above. If you think we are going to beg you to stay you can forget about that buddy. We are more than capable to redirect our state of affairs as it pertains to ensuring a thriving economy for bermuda. It's just going to take more intelligent leaders and strategist who realize putting all of our eggs in one basket (i.e. IB) isn't very wise. Not to say IB isn't essential but don't think, even for a second that you're the be all and end all. You would be poorly mistaken.

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        • campervan says:

          Who said anything about anyone begging or entitlement?
          I merely stated that there are plenty of expats in IB who would be super happy with a move back to , say, London, NY or Zurich. Plenty have already exercised that right, haven't you noticed the drop in revenues?
          Keep ragging on the expatriate population and more will leave. If thats what you want then fine.
          Plenty of students in London would be happy to have the shot at another IB scholarship.

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        • Qualified and Experienced! says:

          Get a clue Bermuda - WE DON'T NEED YOU, you, need US! That's not "Expat arrogance," that's the CONFIDENCE that comes from being highly educated, well-trained leaders in our industries and chosen fields.

          Do NOT confuse arrogance with CONFIDENCE. We are very good at what we do and we know it.

          END OF STORY, END OF CONVERSATION.

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          • Knowthyself says:

            Wow so touchy, all three of you. Nobody is ragging on anyone. I was simply replying to the cheeky comments made above. So if you're looking forward to a "paid relocation and fresh change of scenery" as you so eloquently stated Campervan...than by all means farewell.

            As for Mr. spot comments I do find them to be arrogant. First of all he wishes to address Bermuda on a whole and tell us to wake up as though we have all suddenly fallen asleep at the helm. Who is pulling the strings here?

            Lastly Mr Q & E if you're so highly educated than you should learn to chose your words carefully. "We don't need you, you, need us" um...really? That Mr. Foreigner is sheer ARROGANCE on your part...not to mention completely FALSE.

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    • Yea whatever says:

      Leave A$$

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  22. Knowthyself says:

    This is beautiful....White and black, Expat and native...all together discussing term limits. This is a step in the right direction. Blogging harmony!!! Martin Luther king would be so proud :)

    Now we just need to integrate in person and break bread together. That'll surely be the day!!

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  23. Time Passages says:

    Since it has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that term limits were the most damaging thing PLP ever introduced, one has to question the level of intelligence of the people who were so in favour of everything Robain said last night. They are quite simply too stupid to vote.

    PLP is done. You almost ruined our country. You lied to us, cheated us. Your days are done.

    Goodbye PLP

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  24. Triangle Drifter says:

    Bermudians, PLP supporters & BIU in particular, just don't get it. IB does NOT NEED Bermuda. Bermuda NEEDS IB. IB is Bermudas' only customer these days. The PLP/BIU does not understand business especially IB. They do not understand that to make Bermuda Inc successful the customer, IB, must be happy. IB was unhappy under the PLP. IB left in droves under the PLP taking direct jobs for Bermudians & secondary jobs such as restaurant staff, home maintenance people, to say nothing of lost taxes, with them.

    When we travel to shop we have a choice of where we shop & we exercise that choice to get best value for money. IB is in the same position. A few clicks of the mouse & they can be elsewhere.

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    • dh#1 says:

      At Triangle Drifter: This is why we need to do all that is possible to revive our Tourism brand...then we won't have to worry about IB being the number 1 product for Bermuda!

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      • Mad Dawg says:

        If I could have a Ferrari I wouldn't have to drive my current car.

        That ain't gonna happen either.

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      • Knowthyself says:

        Agree 110%

        Not to mention Tourism is an important part of our national and cultural identity. It provides a way for us to express our friendly and warm nature which is so addictive for our tourist and expat workers ;)

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  25. Bermyman says:

    Can someone explain to me how term limits benefit the majority of Bermudian jobs? I am not talking about the small% of the population that work in IB. The whole picture from bottom to the top of the employment spectrum.

    I also want to know what the benefits are for the MAJORITY of Bermudians are when a wealthy expat and their family leaves the Island after 6 years?

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  26. Bermyman says:

    I think we should have term limits for Government jobs. If you have been working in a particular position within the civil service, then after 6 years there should be a review to see if your job is deemed necessary and if you are the right person for that job. If your job is seen as surplus to requirements or you have not been performing as well as you should have, then the job should be up for grabs for another candidate to apply or the position removed all together.

    After all, the civil service wages are paid for by tax payers, should we not make sure that our money is not going to waste?

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    • Bermudian Mom says:

      @Bermyman I totally agree with a slight change - yearly review! The civil service needs to be run like a business - if you do not produce results - probation - if no improvement - there is the door.

      If your position in no longer required - redundancy - real world rules for the gilded civil service.

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  27. Pastor Syl Hayward says:

    In a word, SCARY!!!

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  28. Bermudian Mom says:

    I keep seeing references made to the exodus of all these IB companies. Can someone please provide statistics to back these claims? For example, how many companies left Bermuda due to the downturn in the economy versus the term limit policy? Notice, I am interested in companies only. Individual guest workers leave for a variety of reasons and that is not the question that needs to be answered right now. Bermuda may be an island but the decision was made many years ago to turn us into a global financial center. After many years of reaping the benefit of the golden years – years of plenty, we are now facing the years of lean – the world economy was devastated – not just Bermuda. There are only a few countries which were not impacted greatly when the overheated economy imploded. There was nothing the PLP or any other political party could have done to prevent Bermuda’s economy being impacted. The stage had been set many years before.
    To the guest worker(s) who have no problem with relocating elsewhere at the expense of your employer, this is the difference that needs to be acknowledged. You, our valued guest have the option of leaving this Island and returning to your homeland with the money you have made here – we do not have anywhere else to go. Some of you come to our fair shores with an holier than thou attitude and try to treat Bermudians like dirt because you have a piece of paper that gives you the impression that you are better than the Bermudian who does not. Yes, IB gives some great scholarships today.
    The young Bermudian of today should feel entitled to be able to secure a job in this country and gain experience in this country. Why should he or she have to gain experience abroad? Now the idea that they are entitled to the same pay cheque as the person with years of experience is out of line.

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  29. smh says:

    did anyone notice the panel? blacks on the left and whites on the right...so symbolically representative of how polarized Bermuda still is...making this particular debate all the more problematic...

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