Column: Reverend On Religion & Gay Rights

May 30, 2016

[Opinion column written by Reverend John-Anthony Burchall]

I am a 46-year-old Bermudian who lives in and among those deciduous leafy enclaves that ring Washington DC, the capital of the most powerfully imperial nation in the world.

I am also a Black Bermudian whose ancestors came to our island against their will. They mingled with my Pequot forebears who had been banished to Bermuda because they had the temerity to fight against British settlers known as Puritans and Pilgrims who encroached on Pequot and Wampanough farm and fishing areas around New Haven, Connecticut, Maine and Massachusetts Bay.

For their courage and bravery, my Pequot and Wampanough ancestors paid the ultimate price. Those that survived the Puritan genocide known as St. Phillip’s War of 1675-1678 were sent to Bermuda to die. My ancestors choose life through family, fishing and farming. Along the way Lambs and Foxes, Minors and Paynters and Burchalls married and reared children.

We spread out from St. David’s to other parts of our island. On the other side of my family tree are the Talbots, who were removed from their land in Castle Harbor and Tucker’s Town to make room for progress. Tucker’s Town was an area my ancestors had settled and farmed since the 1750s.

Reverend John-Anthony Burchall May 30 2016

That land was prime real estate for the political power players of the early 20th century. My ancestors were sacrificed on an altar called progress. The needs of wealthy Anglo-American millionaires were more important. My relatives were relocated to Smith’s parish to make way for those aristocrats.

My theological outlook starts and ends in a profound distrust. The modernist promise was that science and human reason exemplified in mathematics and statistical calculations would solve all our social problems and that our political issues would be resolvable through liberal Westminster-styled parliamentary democracy parasitic upon a free market capitalistic economy. These secular institutions would usher in justice for all. This has been proven false with each election cycle.

Digital Technology has not ended poverty or healed all diseases, but it has helped. In the end, the 20th century has been a sordid cesspool of wars, genocides and military misadventures. The 21st century began just as the 20th century ended, with imperial wars and land grabs, wrapped in red white and blue. The promise of liberty and justice for all has been proven to be a tall tale told by an idiot.

History shows us that human beings and human systems cannot be trusted to do the right thing. History shows that the optimism placed in human beings’ rational minds and reasoning capacities was premature. History shows us that humans have profoundly destructive tendencies. We easily sacrifice the weak and the innocent for our own big ideas like democracy and our personal comforts and digital gadgets and we enjoy our ease in our beds but this ease comes at a terrible price.

There are 7 billion people in the world. 1 billion of those persons are starving and 3 billion more live on less than $5 a day. This sits easily with the millions paid to Hip Hop rappers, movie actors, basketball and football players and mega church celebrity pastors.

The reverential tones that greeted Apple icon Steve Jobs when he descended from the mountain top carrying two iPad tablets in each hand in 2010, deliberately disguised the grim reality that our iPods and iPhones are assembled in Taiwanese giant Foxconn’s factories in China, Singapore and Malaysia by women and children under some of the most cramped, desperate and humid conditions of slavery. Many of these workers resort to suicide as an escape from these oppressive circumstances.

Yet none of us stop to think about the human costs, and the human suffering that is required for us to use a laptop computer or own the latest I-phones and I-pads, PlayStation 3 or a Kindle. The irony of course is that this injustice takes place at the center of the enlightened, Christian, liberal democratic, scientifically sophisticated utopias of Europe, the United States and Canada. This is free market fundamentalism at its purest. Capitalism is an economic system that requires the blood sacrifice of billions of human lives of the non-peoples of Asia, Africa, and China. These scapegoats die on our altars like sacrificial animals so that a privileged few can live in obscene wealth.

There is a certain cozy religiosity that gives support and salve to this abomination. These are the Roman Catholic, Anglican and American Protestant megachurch caricatures of the our faith. Their priesthood claim divine sanction and blessing for these economically unjust arrangements as “God’s will.”

Anglicans, Baptists, Presbyterians, Quakers, and Methodists all engaged in slave raiding and trading and were on the wrong side of the justice equation. Instead of critical readings of their scripture texts and traditions, religious people choose to worship these texts and declare their writers to be divine mouthpieces.

That is pure idolatry! It is true that there were minority voices that opposed slavery and supported the rights of women and children and homosexuals, even though our sacred text, the Bible is unapologetically pro-slavery, pro-polygany and contains page after page of genocides against non-Israelites. A holy text? I think not!

Perhaps the most egregious claim of traditional Christian religion is the absurd confession that the Creator God of love and justice required a blood sacrifice of an innocent human being called Jesus, before this Creator God could forgive human beings for our many sins.

Rev Burchall at New Hope Baptist United Church Christ in Washington, DC

Was this Creator God too weak to simply forgive us? There are many traditional Christian believers who have no problem with the idea of Jesus’ necessary death to atone for human sin. I disagree with and stand against this unjust and blood thirsty tradition and I do so as an ordained Christian minister.

I prefer the Biblical view that says our God desires: “mercy not sacrifice” [Hosea 6:6.] No bulls, goats, lambs or children need to die on anyone’s altar then or now. I stand against that tradition as an ordained cleric and preacher from within the Christian church itself.

For me Christian faith means answering a call to embody the good news for everybody. We are one human family on one planet called Earth. We did not create ourselves and a posture of gratitude for the gift of life and the miracle of human community means serving others in a way that is productive and beneficial for as many residents of this biosphere as possible.

My existence within the Judeo-Christian portion the human story is pure accident. I happen to be Christian because my parents were Christians and I grew up in Bermuda. The God I serve, however, is no Christian, Muslim, Jew, Jain, Confucian, Buddhist, Hindu or humanist.

Before there was the man-made institution called religion, there was the divine and the sacred and as an ordained pastor within a human religious institution called Christianity, I accepted the call to live a courageous life. To marry and have children; to give myself to the causes I believe in and to seek justice for myself and others proximate and distant lands.

This is not a path of reward and riches in this life or any alleged next one. It is a call to live boldly and to trust that suffering and injustice will not be the final outcome. Being a Christian minister means sustaining the crazy, unrealistic, impractical belief in justice, without needing a bribe called heaven or an eternal life beyond physical death. I refuse to accept the Christian and secular status quo.

For me this has meant standing up for justice for the gay and lesbian communities here in America, even though the conservative Christian churches both in Bermuda and America consider their “lifestyle” to be against God’s will. The Christian church was on the wrong side of the slavery issue in the 14th, 15th 16th, 17th and 18th centuries and the conservative traditional Christian Churches are on the wrong side of the gay rights issue today.

The conservative churches of the past based their pro-slavery position on the same Bible that the current opponents of gay rights use to crucify the homosexual community!

I stand against that and I stand with the gay community. I support gay marriage between consenting adults and will conduct and perform gay weddings and blessings. I will counsel homosexual couples within my congregation and help them to navigate the red tape and prejudice that they meet as they seek to adopt children.

This is a matter of Christian love and justice. The gay, lesbian and transgendered communities are the Samaritans of our day. Christian ministry requires me to be in prophetic engagement with the Christian priestly, in-crowd. It means taking up the cause of the poor, the sick and the non peoples who live right in our midst. It means working for the gay, lesbian and transgendered communities and the HIV positive and the drug addicted and the mentally ill.

I refuse to be consoled with the Pollyanna notions that all will be well in a glorious heaven someday somewhere beyond the skies; I refuse to be comforted by the false promises of a cozy Eden at the end of my earthly life. I reject the view that Jesus is the only way to salvation. Instead, the Christian faith that has called me is a praxis of earthly, bodily, material struggle and I and others will wrestle together within human systems that oppress, exclude and bring harm to people across the globe, especially when religion is the culprit.

That means I am critical of my own Christian tradition and its long and loving association with slavery and the oppression of women and children and I will continue to bring a critical lens to my own thought and the man-made traditions within my denomination.

This is a matter of justice. I have and will continue to risk offending the traditionalists who populate the ordination councils and High Altars and pulpits and boardrooms. I will continue to seek dialog with other religious and non-religious persons. As a recipient of the gift of we call life, and as an ordained minister of the good news, I can be nothing less than that.

I would invite my Bermuda family to vote YES to full marriage equality for the LGBTQIA community in the June referendum. Send a direct message to our feckless political leaders that the time is always right to do the right thing. Anything less than full marriage equality for adults is simply beneath contempt.

- Rev. John-Anthony Burchall M.Div [Howard Divinity School] Alexandria, Virginia

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  1. Real Deal says:

    The Bible said there will be many false profits wolfs in sheep skins.
    Read the Book your self it says clear as light what you need to know about the topic. And I am Black with many slaves apart of my family tree however I am no fool. Even with out the Good Book I can see what is right and what is wrong. The Bible just verifies it for me.

    • scoob says:

      But the bible was written thousands of years ago by men who though the world was flat and had no other way to explain life’s mysteries than by assuming a magic man in the sky controlled it all.

      The so called christian values contained promote slavery, subservience and mysogyny. Seemingly to promote the notion that the less fortunate should accept their lot and fall into line in the knowledge that they will be rewarded after death.

      It beggars belief than anyone could try to argue our current laws should be anyway based on this outdated view of the world.

      • lalal says:

        Scoob.. Agree with you.. But would also like to add that the bible was also translated by men who put their own feelings and thoughts into their translation.

        Just like the game “Pass it on” the translation will change and could have a completely different meaning in the end.

        • HW says:

          Erroneous. Please provide proof.

          • Mike Hind says:

            Wow! For YOU to demand proof is the height of hypocrisy!!!!

          • hmmm says:

            Eroneous, a character burdened with mistakes was quested to discover the strength of the alcohol.

            The story of Eroneous

            See how easily it is done!!!!!

          • Sorry Sir says:

            The King James Bible is a great example of men writing Bibles based on their interpretations and beliefs.

    • brain drain says:

      ‘false profits’ …. shows your credibility

      So basically you already know right from wrong and just use the bible when it’s convenient for you? I think that sums up religion in Bermuda really well.

      • hmmm says:

        false prophets I think he mean’t

        PLP and a certain radio show for example !

    • blankman says:

      Since among other things the bible approves of (in fact glorifies) slavery, genocide, rape marriages, and child sacrifice are you saying that those things are right? Or haven’t you read the bible?

      • THM's Battle Axe says:

        The Bible was written by the Israelites for the Israelites, the so called Blacks, Hispanics, and Native American. Deut 28:68 says we will go into Egypt on ships for break our God’s commandments. (Exo 20:2 says Egpyt is slavery).

        The law condemns slavery, rape, child sacrifice, and murder. But since it’s our history book it chronicles or past sins we are being judged for today, currently by the hand of the Edomites (so called white people).

        This is why Jesus had to come, to save us from our enemies (Luke 1:68 Mat 15:24), not everyone. This gay rights thing is just one more trap to keep us in sin.

        • Mike Hind says:

          No. It’s not.

          It’s just people.

        • Its me again says:

          I beg to differ.

          The foundations of christianity are in the words that jesus supposedly said in the gospels.

          The death and ressurection is really truly more apart of dogma than anything else

          At the concil on nicea in 323 ad the bishops who put the books that would be known as the bible together debated the divinity of jesus. Thats why in the gospel of thomas and mary magdalene jesus never dies. They dont tell you about those books. Its all a lie anyway and this man thinks he is doing his part to make the world a better place by teaching the good parts of the bible to people without the dogma attached to it.

          • HW says:

            Nonsense. You should do real research before you reach such ridiculous conclusions. The council merely confirmed what was already understood to be truly inspired writings. They were verified by either a miracle and or eye witness testimony. This is why the ‘gospels’ of Thomas, Mary, judas, etc tried to use those names of early believers, because they knew that having been written much later than the real gospels, they would not be taken as real unless they tried to appear as original accounts. They are obvious forgeries and contain obvious signs that they’re not reliable or even real sources. To believe otherwise is to ignore all reasonable historical analysis by the vast majority of theologians and others who aren’t even christian!

            • Build a Better Bermuda says:

              First, understand, none of the gospels were written by any of the apostles, they were only named after them for their teachings. So there is no first hand account of what Jesus taught, by Jesus himself. Now, other than maybe the letters to the Corinthians, no other teaching by those who directly followed Jesus were actually written down by those that directly followed him, so we don’t even have second hand accounts of his teachings. The best you can argue for is that those that followed Jesus’ followers began to write down their teachings, maybe third hand accounts at this point. And at this time there still wasn’t any Christianity, what there was multiple gospels being taught by multiple factions. Prior to the First Council of Nicaea, previous councils, including the first Church council and the Council of Jerusalem, had been held to settle disputes between the factions interpretations. However, the was this first ecumenical council by the Roman Emperor Constantine the first, that was convened to settle the matter of Jesus’s divinity (a matter that was of debate by the earlier gospels), some 300 years after Jesus died, and as a result, any or part of prior gospel that did not make clear the divine nature of Jesus were rejected from what would become the centralized publishing that was to be practiced going forward.

          • THM's Battle Axe says:

            I’m only trying to make the world of Israel better with the truth. Truth is according to the Bible, modern Christianity is a lie.

            They say Christ is white -Rev 1:14, Dan 10:6 says he is black. They say they are the Jews -Rev 2:9 says they are of Satan. They say the law is done away – Mat 5:17, Rom 6:1, Rom 3:31 Rev 22:14 says to keep the law. They say the new testament is for everyone – Heb 8:8 says it’s only for Israel. * Read KJV only.

            This is why there so much confusion today. Also the counsel of Nicea was the beginning of the perversion of the scriptures to make it a universal religion for the Roman Empire. They introduced paganism like Christmas, Easter and Sunday worship that we have today. Then they re-introduced us to it in slavery when it was originally our records. But HW hit the nail on the head on the counsel and you don’t know what your talking about.

        • OnionBird says:

          What a load of chicken manure!

      • HW says:

        This from the person who alleged that the bible condemns the “sin of lefthandedness” all throughout scripture. Sorry Blankman, when you put forth complete nonsense like that- which you’ve done before but refused to take back- then you lose all credibility.

        You should leave this topic alone as you have a great deal of confusion regarding what the bible actually says.

        • Mike Hind says:

          Funny how you keep going back to that, yet never actually back up any of your statements or offer a reason to not have marriage equality.

          Why is that?

      • LOL says:

        your comments are so ridiculous. how can you even post them?

    • Bermudaguy says:

      Here’s the thing. How do you know your holy book is true? Because that same book tells you it’s true. Wow, that’s odd don’t you think?
      It is patently obvious that these gods were created in the image of man. Otherwise it would not make sense having so many gods, who are at odds with each other.
      And most of us know right from wrong without the need for scriptures. It would be sad if that weren’t so. At best religions separate people into tribes of belief without even questioning the fact that nobody even knows who wrote the bible, for example or whether they are true.
      Religion is a cancer to our minds and to our society.

      Religion: there is a cure!

      • LaRoot says:

        You are right there is a cure to Religion – it’s Relationship, to God through Christ.

        • Mike Hind says:

          Well, that just makes no sense at all!

    • Its me again says:

      The bible commands that slaves obey their masters as they would obey god.

      The bible also demands thay if a wman where to be raped outside the city and her cries are not heard she must be stoned to death because she ddnt cry out.

      What about stoning your disobedient child?

      What about no contact with your husband whilst your period is on?

      This is what you consider a good book?

    • You said ALL that to set set up for a let down !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • Obviously his African Cultural Sences have been warped.

  2. Uh oh says:

    This ought to be good!!!

    Wait for it…..

  3. Smh says:

    Have you read your bible lately “Rev”? Too many people claiming to be “Christian” without understanding what it means and really reading the bible in all its context. Everyone likes to make their own opinions and interpretations about what the Bible means as opposed to taking the Bible for what it ACTUALLY SAYS. This is sad.

    • Rhonnda Oliver says:

      Unless you’ve done a great deal of research into ancient cultures and the languages that were used in the writing of the Bible, there is no way you can begin to understand it in all its context. Even then you would be missing the personal context brought to the writings by the writers.

      So, you don’t know for a fact, any more than the ‘Rev’ does, what the Bible actually says.

      If you believe that the Bible and God supports discrimination of minorities and those who commit something you deem a sin, then you do and no amount of argument is going to convince you otherwise.

      I prefer to believe that no group of people should be punished because another group believes what they do is a ‘sin’ unless they commit violence or damage against others.

      Personally, I prefer my values over your ‘Christian’ values.

      But I suppose it depends on your definition of what ‘Christian’ really means.

    • Daylilly says:

      You are absolutely right. There are too many people still chewing on the spirit of unforgiveness and the bitter leaves of slavery. It seems to be clouding their judgement. The Reverend seems to be confusing the atrocities of slavery with the fact that two people of the same gender can not consummate a marriage. One has nothing to do with the other.

      Slavery denied that people were human. Protecting marriage encourages human procreation. Slavery was an ideal that destroyed families and tore children from their birth parents,. SSM ensures that those same atrocities of tearing children from their biological parents will be perpetuated. The Reverend’s ideology is flawed.

      • Mike Hind says:

        And consummation isn’t a legal requirement for marriage.

        You keep spreading lies. Please stop.

        • Daylilly says:

          Consummation is legally a part of marriage which is why not consummating the marriage is grounds for annulment. In the UK, once the “marriage act “/consummation has occurred the marriage is binding and can no longer be annulled. This is not true for same sex couples because they can not consummate a marriage. Check the UK government websites.

          • Mike Hind says:

            Same sex couples are allowed to get married in the uk.

            And, as I said, there is no legal requirement to consummate a marriage.
            You are spreading lies again.

            • Mercy says:

              Mike- I’m with you on equal rights and SSM. But your getting a bit carried away on this topic…don’t you think?

              Hey- as a matter of fact, do your thing man! Everyone needs a worthy cause to stand by.

              • Mike Hind says:

                No. I don’t think I’m getting carried away.

                This is too important an issue. People are being denied equal access to rights and privileges based on lies and misinformation. Citizens of this country cannot live in happiness with the person of their choice, sharing in the same rights that i do, because of people like “Daylily” and “HW”, who spread complete falsehoods while cowering under the hood of anonymity.

                This is wrong. It is an injustice and I refuse to back down from liars and demagogues like this who are hurting people for no reason.

      • Mike Hind says:

        Tearing children from their biological parents?

        What on earth are you talking about?

        How will marriage equality do that?

        Come on. I know you have an agenda, but this is evil.

        • Daylilly says:

          People are more educated than you think. Even primary school children can figure that one out.

          • Just the Tip says:

            That is not an answer

          • Mike Hind says:

            This is a completely cowardly non-answer.

            You’re spreading lies and it’s disgusting.

      • PBanks says:

        Seems a bit disingenuous to imply that same sex marriage has the same effect on children as implementing SLAVERY, Daylilly.

        • Daylilly says:

          PBanks. Not according to some children of same sex couples, like Dr. Robert Oscar Lopez, that’s exactly what he purports,.. That he felt like what happened to him was tantamount to slavery. Many children of same sex couples are hurt and angry that they were intentionally robbed of a mother or a father because of the desires of adults. Numerous books and articles are available. Yes, some people are ok with having loving same gender parents. The problem is that they were robbed of the male and female relationships that it took to create them.

          • PBanks says:

            Couldn’t one then suggest that children raised by a single parent may feel angry and hurt by the desires of one or more adults? This is admittedly an interesting line of thought you raised here, but I don’t know if there’s any recourse here – if the sperm or egg donor did not want to be involved in the child’s life (whether the parents were lesbian/gay/a straight couple), what can one do?

            • Daylilly says:

              Everyone for years has already agreed that single parenting can be done well but it is not a social ideal and no one is legislatively promoting it. SSM will be the only place that motherlessness or fatherlessness is legislated as a social ideal.

              • Mike Hind says:

                This is complete nonsense.

                It’s a complete misrepresentation of the truth about marriage equality. Not only that, the premise is completely false. The fact that divorce is legal means that “motherlessness and fatherlessness” is already “legislated as a social ideal”.
                Which, by the way, isn’t an actual thing. It’s just something these foreign anti-equality demagogues made up to stir up fear and reinforce negative feelings towards gay folks.
                It’s complete nonsense, but it sounds good if you already believe that these folks are bad.

                These lies and this misinformation is bad for Bermuda, shame on you for spreading this evil garbage.

                • Crangis McBasketball says:

                  That’s a silly response. Who has ever campaigned to have divorce upheld as a good thing?

          • Mike Hind says:

            Nonsense. Oscar Lopez has been discussed and exposed several times on this site, yet you keep trying bring this up.
            Why so dishonest?

            And why do you keep pushing this sexist gender roles argument? It’s been exposed as false, too.

            You’re posting from a playbook that has been shown, time and again, to be nothing but misinformation.

            Why can’t you just use honest, factual evidence?

            • Daylilly says:

              Mike, factual honest evidence is that two men nor two women can make a child. This means that for a same gender relationship to have a child is to guarantee that they child will have a motherless or fatherless family. Many children raised by same gender parents say that they were loved by the people that raised them. However, they also say that it is unfair to legislatively say that they don’t have a right to know the strength of a father or the warmth of a mother.

              • Mike Hind says:

                As has been pointed out to you repeatedly, procreation and the ability to have children together is not a stipulation nor requirement for marriage. Neither is providing a mother and/or father to a child.

                You are posting dishonest misinformation in order to push your false, hateful and discriminatory agenda and you should be ashamed of yourself.

                Your “examples” of children of same sex couples – the ones you keep bringing up – have all been exposed as pushing your same agenda, blaming the same sex parenting for a plethora of other problems. Most of them have, in fact, said that their parents were actually good parents and did a good job raising them.

                Please stop posting these lies and then running away. You are hurting people and it’s evil.

  4. theothersidebda says:

    What kind of “Christian” reverend denies the centrality of Jesus shed blood for the forgiveness of sins? That’s at the very core of the entire Gospel message and without it, there is no Christianity.

    • Jiminy Cricket says:

      In 1 Corinthians 15:14 Paul stated “And if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain.”

      This writer however rejects Jesus’ death and resurrection as being part of Christianity and rejects scripture. Really can’t understand how he brands himself as a Christian since this is at the very core.

      • Its me again says:

        I beg to differ.

        The foundations of christianity are in the words that jesus supposedly said in the gospels.

        The death and ressurection is really truly more apart of dogma than anything else

        At the concil on nicea in 323 ad the bishops who put the books that would be known as the bible together debated the divinity of jesus. Thats why in the gospel of thomas and mary magdalene jesus never dies. They dont tell you about those books. Its all a lie anyway and this man thinks he is doing his part to make the world a better place by teaching the good parts of the bible to people without the dogma attached to it.

        • Say Whaat? says:

          Wait, so the gospels you choose to believe of from the former wh*** and doubter? Interesting versions to pick from.

        • HW says:

          It’s me again: your statements are 100% false and demonstrate a lack of understanding of the bible and how it was actually formed.

    • lowe says:

      @theothersidebda The writer subscribes to Judaism. He is definitely not Christian. Christianity is based primarily on Jesus Christ.

      • Its me again says:

        Judaism is actually he grouping for any religions that use the torah.

        So christianity is judaism

        • These religions are young compared to Ancient Kemet.

          • Mike Hind says:

            And?

            What does that have to do with anything?

            • It means that it would be wise to do a study on Ancient Kemet to see how warped society is now.
              Ancient African beliefs have been labelled as witchcraft by Europeans even though its been in existence while they were still I de Caucasus Mountains.

              • serengeti says:

                So you believe in the same superstitions as people did thousands of years ago. Ok then. That explains a lot.

          • Zevon says:

            So that’s even more stone aged. I bet it’s very enlightened. Still, you can believe any superstitious nonsense you like.

    • Still Laughing says:

      Oh, so you wish to literally live by the Bible, eh? Let’s take a look at a few things, shall we?

      Tattoos are a no-no – Leviticus 19:28 – seems as if that one got swept under the carpet like a number of others.

      No eating shellfish – Leviticus 11:10 – you know that won’t happen – gotta have your lobster when it’s available!

      You can’t divorce – Mark 10:9-12 – you’d be stoned to death for this one but that’ll cut the Bermudian population by at least 1/3!

      No blended fabric – Leviticus 19:19 – polyester is the fabric of choice for priest frocks everywhere!

      No wearing of gold – 1 Timothy 2-9 – I guess we can ignore that as wearing gold warrants death and about 90$ of the population on this island wears it!

      Gossiping – Leviticus 19:16 – personally I love this one but that’ll give the majority of this island one less thing to do and besides, what other way would you find out if someone else is sinning?

      Working on Sunday – Exodus 31:14-15 – gee, that means the buses or taxis can’t work that day – oh well, I guess you can’t find your way to church! The penalty is death? We just stoned the entire police force to death!

      Cursing parents – Exodus 21:17 – the penalty is death. Actually, I know some parents who will still knock their kids block for cussing them.

      Pre-marital sex – Deutoronomy 22:20-21 – the penalty is death by stoning. Oh good lord, we just killed the entire population!!

      Bottom line, if you’re going to live by the bible’s words, go the ENTIRE distance, not pick choose and refuse!

      • Say Whaat? says:

        You just gonna ignore the new testament all together? Of course you will. That’s the only way your comment makes sense.

        • Zevon says:

          So you’re picking and choosing which parts of the bible we should believe in and follow to the letter. I can see why you need to do that, but it does come across as ridiculously hypocritical.
          Where is the church-approved list of parts of the bible we should ignore?

          • HW says:

            No- YOU are picking and choosing levitical laws and taking them out of context. They were given for the Jewish people for ritual cleansing. You clearly haven’t read any of Paul’s writings regarding the law and it’s purpose.

            Seriously, do some real reading of commentaries on these subjects if you want to be educated on them. Otherwise, frankly, you make yourself look pretty silly.

            • Mike Hind says:

              All of this is a moot point, as your personal choice of religions should have absolutely no effect on anyone else’s relationship.

              Or should it.

              You still haven’t offered a reason that we shouldn’t have marriage equality.

            • Zevon says:

              So you follow all that stuff then. No shellfish, no blended fabrics, no prevmarital sex.
              Because otherwise you’re picking and choosing.

      • Ed Case says:

        Bible thumpers don’t want to hear this, they just want to cherry pick and judge us normal folk. Religiotards.

      • Daylilly says:

        That’s an old worn out post. Find a good Bible study. You can misinterpret any book if you don’t read it in context and you don’t read it in its entirety.

      • mj says:

        exodus says nothing about SUnday worship, the sabath is not SUNDAy, SUnday is “sol invictus” celebration.. also this so’called rev. has not quoted 1 verse of scripture, … bye!!

  5. Dan DeSilva says:

    I suggest anyone confused by this commentary to look for “That’s My King” by The late Dr. S. M. Lockeridge via google….

  6. IslandTeacher says:

    I have never read such a self referenced article before. Interesting that you are happy to draw a salary from the ignorant parishioners tithes and offerings even though you do not stand for any of the tenants of faith. Happy pontificating!

    • Its me again says:

      Lol

      Someone really really took this article personal

  7. Bermynick says:

    I can’t wait for the first stoning of people who eat shrimp! That’ll show the non believers we mean business!

    • Rhonnda Oliver says:

      What about those who pigs and goat?

    • Its me again says:

      Or those who wear garments made of two fabrics.

      Stone em

      • aceboy says:

        Noone is to stone anyone until I blow this whistle!

    • HW says:

      The biblically illiterate demonstrate once again why they are unqualified to critique the bible. Yours is an often regurgitated yet so easily refuted statement. Please do some real reading or research. Even a google search will quickly show why your statement is misguided and lacking understanding.

      • Mike Hind says:

        If it’s so easy to refute, why don’t you?

        • HW says:

          I have a full time job and am not here enough to take that kind of time. It would be far easier to do a google search and find the abundance of articles and commentaries that address thiese misinterpretations. Additionally, it’s very easy to throw out a comment like the above. I’ve usually found the poster is not interested in being educated on the topic, they’re just trying to muddy the waters. If you really wanted to know answers, you wouldn’t ignore the abundance of resources or ignore my posts when I have explained these issues.

          I said it earlier- many of those laws were for ritual cleansing for the Jewish people. They do not apply today. Please read the book of Romans which is just one area this topic is covered.

          The issue of tattoos supposedly being forbidden. This is false. That law was given to command the Jews not to do what the people around them were doing: they would cut themselves in worship of their dead ancestors. So unless a person getting a tattoo is also doing some sort of ritual worship during that process, then I think it’s quite clear that to get a tattoo is not unlawful.

          There are many other laws that were given for ritual cleansing and then some just for basic hygiene. They didn’t eat pork because thats how many diseases were spread and this was a way to avoid that.

          Another example- The Jewish people were told thousands of years ago things that modern medicine didn’t discover for centuries. It wasn’t until the 20th that we discovered germs and bacteria. Right up until that time, doctors would deliver a baby, operate on a sick person, or do an autopsy on a dead person all without washing their hands! Jewish laws were given to let them know many of these things were unclean centuries before modern science realized it.

          The list goes on and on. If you want to know more then the onus is on you to be educated and read up on these things.

          • Mike Hind says:

            And yet you took all the time to write this nonsense.

            • Its me again says:

              Not nonsense at all.

              Hes right. You probably have never read the bible

              • Its me again says:

                Actually hes wrong.

                Carry on mike

              • Anbu says:

                Why should he? Its a load of rubbish. No i cant prove that it is rubbish, but at the same time u cant prove that it isnt. Its all comes down to opinion and u know how the saying goes about opinions.

            • HW says:

              Thanks for showing your true colors mike. you’re not interested in truth or any sort of rational discussion on the subject of the bible.

              you criticized me for not refuting the claims made against it, but then also criticized me when I did refute some of them! additionally, you demonstrated your complete disregard for other belief systems by calling it ‘nonsense’. why is it ‘nonsense’? is that the best you can do in response to what I wrote?

              you preach ‘tolerance’ and ‘freedom to practice one’s religion’ all the time, in an effort to make it seem like you respect people’s right to religion or whatever you’re calling it. however the above post shows you’re deceiving, lying and have NO respect for others beliefs.

              why else call my truthful statements ‘nonsense’? address them on their own merit if you’re going to. furthermore, I didn’t spend a great deal of time replying then or now (hence, the typos in what I wrote) and could’ve written much more. however I don’t believe my time is well spent on people who clearly show they have no interest in serious discussion. now go ahead and change the subject (I’ve been addressing biblical criticisms in here FYI) to deflect attention.

              • Mike Hind says:

                Nothing in this post is even close to true!

                I’ve been BEGGING you for a discussion and you have ignored those pleas at every turn.

                I never, not once, called your beliefs ridiculous or nonsense. I said what you wrote in that post was.

                You are dishonestly twisting my words to try to wriggle out of the fact that you have never, not once, ever offered a reason or argument against marriage equality and offering equal access to rights and privileges.

                I DO respect your right to believe whatever you want.
                The problem here is that you don’t respect anyone else’s. You think that your personal choice of religion should trump everyone else’s, to the point where you are pushing creationism as science!

                How about you address the fact that your agenda of opposing marriage equality is completely baseless?

                Oh, and what you wrote? The nonsense I referred to? None of it refutes anything. It is baseless rationalization and hypocritical gibberish.

                My true colours have always been on display. Always.

                Yours, however, have not. You hide them behind fear of exposure because, deep down, you know you’re wrong.

                • HW says:

                  This particular discussion and back and forth was on biblical matters and allegations made against the bible, which I showed clearly to be gross misinterpretations and misunderstandings.

                  when those were put forth you called them nonsense…and then proceeded to offer NOTHING of substance to refute what I had said.

                  if your best response is “well that’s nonsense” then we’re not really having a discussion are we? it’s a clear demonstration of your christophobic views. additionally, is it mature to start most of your ‘rebuttals’ (if they are to be called that) with a statement of “nothing you’ve said is true”…but then proceed to say nothing of substance as to why you believe that. when I see that over and over, I tend to ignore your posts. that may be part of why you don’t feel I’m addressing you in some instances.

                  I have outlined my reasons for opposition to SSM many times. here and elsewhere. many of the so called ‘rights’ you claim are being denied to SS couples actually don’t even exist currently in marriage. perhaps there’s a misconception about that in your camp. in other instances these rights or benefits can be taken care of without redefining marriage and undermining what it is designed to represent and uphold.

                  • Mike Hind says:

                    Well, now this is just an outright lie! You’ve never done that. You’ve lied and claimed to have done it several times, but have never actually done it.

                    If your position is so strong, why do you have to be THIS dishonest to defend it?

                  • Mike Hind says:

                    Sorry, I have to refute this properly…

                    “I have outlined my reasons for opposition to SSM many times. here and elsewhere.”

                    While this is not true, it’s also not an answer to my question. You have never, ever, offered a reasonable, reality-based, defensible argument against marriage equality. And you don’t, here, either.

                    ” many of the so called ‘rights’ you claim are being denied to SS couples actually don’t even exist currently in marriage.”

                    Again, this is not true, but ebpven if it were, it doesn’t make a difference. Because there ARE rights that DO “exist currently in marriage” that people are being denied. Or do you deny this fact? You’ve been shown, several times, what these rights and privileges are. You say “many” of the rights I claim are being denied… Yet don’t list them. And don’t point out when I claimed this. And if only many of them don’t exist, then you admit that there are some that ARE being denied. Why are you ok with this? Why is it ok to deny these rights?

                    “perhaps there’s a misconception about that in your camp”

                    It’s not. This is just another bit of misinformation you’re spreading and will never back up. Ever.

                    “in other instances these rights or benefits can be taken care of without redefining marriage and undermining what it is designed to represent and uphold.”

                    Yeah, but why? Why not just let folks get married?
                    Why is redefining marriage – by removing a single clause in a separate act – not allowed? It’s been done before.

                    And what was it “designed to represent and uphold”?

                    • Mike Hind says:

                      The silence is deafening.

                      And speaks volumes.

            • Mike Hind says:

              And, so
              I’m clear, this post is nonsense because it doesn’t actually refute anything, as you claimed.

              The Levitical laws of the Jews that you are referring to, are the number one excuse used to discriminate against gay folks. Now you’re saying that only some apply and some don’t and some are for this and some are for that… But you’re not actually SAYING anything. You’re being nebulous and vague.
              Nothing in this post debunks or refutes anything, nor does it “defend your beliefs”.

              Your constant misrepresentation of reality is really dishonest and unfair to anyone trying to engage in a discussion with you.

              • aceboy says:

                He is absolutely sure his jaded view of the bible is correct. Just like the Taliban, Isis, etc. think that they are the ones in the *know*.

          • Daylilly says:

            HW. Awesome rebuttal! You gave concise well laid out information. Hopefully, someone who really wants to know the truth will read your post.

      • hmmm says:

        Sorry HW, you just proved that you are biblically illiterate !

        Shame on you , shame on you and shame on you

  8. wahoo says:

    So you say the Foxes got in with the Lambes?

  9. Mike Hind says:

    Someone’s religious belief is absolutely sacred and should be defended. Everyone’s should.
    Even the folks that don’t have religious beliefs. Even those whose religious beliefs don’t jibe with yours.

    And this is the crux of the problem. So many folks seem to think that theirs is the only one that should be protected and that everyone else should have to follow their personal choice of religion’s rules.

    I don’t believe that’s how it works…

    • serengeti says:

      Anyone can believe anything they like, no matter how far-fetched or ridiculous.

      They can believe in Zeuss the Thundergod. Or Harry Potter. Or Jesus. Or Mohammed. None of it makes any great difference to me, until the point where they think their belief should have some impact on the way I live my life with my family. At that point, I don’t see why their beliefs should be defended at all. At that point, they open themselves up to frank discussion of their beliefs and, since they want those beliefs to restrict the rights of other people, they have to be prepared for an exchange of views on whether their beliefs are a load of superstitious hogwash.

      • Mike Hind says:

        That’s what I said.

        When they stop respecting other people’s beliefs is when we got a problem.

        Sorry I wasn’t more clear! :D

        • serengeti says:

          I wasn’t sure that’s what you meant, thanks for clarifying. Glad we’re on the same page, as I admire your stance on ssm.

    • HW says:

      so sacred that you called it ‘nonsense’ when I defended my beliefs?

      please stop pretending like you respect others beliefs mike as you’ve made it abundantly clear that you do not.

      • Mike Hind says:

        Nope. Not true at all. What you wrote WAS nonsense. Nothing in it made a lick of sense.

        You can believe whatever you want.

        The problem lies in the fact that you demand that everyone else does, yet offer absolutely no reason to do so. No evidence. No facts. No data.

        This attempt to play the victim is your weakest attempt yet to weasel out of actually stating a defensible position/

        • HW says:

          please expose what I wrote regarding levitical laws and how it made no sense. your failure to understand something and unwillingness to examine the history behind it does not make it ‘nonsense’.

          I’m not playing the victim mike, I’m pointing out how ridiculous it is to say that I’ve done nothing to refute the allegations against the bible…and then when I did exactly that to reject it outright and merely call it nonsense. you offered NO reasonable explanation as to why you’re calling it nonsense. what I wrote was nothing controversial actually and is readily available knowledge to anybody who actually wants to learn and research it. you clearly don’t, and that’s fine. but don’t label it as ‘nonsense’ and act as if you’ve exposed my post as being false, just because you know nothing about it and have nothing of substance to add to that particular discussion.

          • Mike Hind says:

            Oh, I didn’t expose your post as being false…

            You’d have to actually say something for it to be false!

            And I’ve explained why I called I nonsense…

            Because it is. You pick and choose which Levitical laws apply to everyone – even non-adherents to your faith – and which ones only apply to Jews, yet have absolutely no justification or reason WHY.
            You just said “oh, that’s for Jews only”.

            That’s nonsense.

            It’s amazing how you waste all this time trying to pretend that I’m attacking your faith, yet can’t spend 2 minutes writing a single reason that we should continue denying equal access to rights and privileges to Bermudian citizens currents denied that access.

            Why is that?

            • HW says:

              the accusation has been made that we should be following ALL the levitical laws. a failure to understand the context of many of those laws is a failure to understand Christianity.

              I am not picking and choosing which laws I want to follow, this is covered in explicit detail all throughout scripture. read romans. read many other letters in the NT.

              if you study all the scripture it is evident that some laws are for ritual cleansing and were intended for a particular time, reason, place, and people. others remain as commands all through time and this is known by many other supporting scriptures. again, please read through the NT with a good study commentary if this troubles you so much.

              homosexuality, adultery, fornication, stealing, lying and many other sins are still regulated against as they involve moral behaviours and consequences which ensue. you don’t need to accept or believe this, I’m simply stating what biblical Christianity is about. there is no inconsistency, there is simply misunderstanding from those who are not biblical Christians and / or willing to study the context and history of these books in the bible.

              • Mike Hind says:

                And yet, not once have you explained why any of this should apply to anyone that isn’t an adherent of your personal choice of religions.

                Any chance you’ll do that and actually offer a reason we should continue denying access to rights to Bermudians?

              • Mike Hind says:

                “homosexuality, adultery, fornication, stealing, lying and many other sins are still regulated against as they involve moral behaviours and consequences which ensue.”

                And yet, only homosexuality (And fornication) doesn’t have a victim…
                And you list adultery (and fornication), which isn’t illegal, so there’s some inconsistency there. Why is homosexuality a reason to be barred from equal access to rights and the others not?

                Why don’t you ever answer these questions?

                You’re posting a lot in this thread, but never actually explaining this.

              • Daylilly says:

                HW. Excellent posts! Thank you for standing firm and writing intelligent, well articulated posts.

                • Mike Hind says:

                  Nonsense. His cowardly lack of response shows just how wrong you are.

                  • HW says:

                    Mike you are the one who posts in here all day long. I post when I can and feel like it. To demand I respond to every one of your posts is not only unreasonable but, frankly, a bit egotistical. You ignore points of what I’ve said and the put demands on me to answer things you don’t understand or refuse to accept. It’s not my job to educate you.

                    If I believed you were interested in genuine discussion I might engage with you more. However nothing you represent in here has led me to believe that’s the case.

          • Mike Hind says:

            Oh, I didn’t expose your post as being false…

            You’d have to actually say something for it to be false!

            And I’ve explained why I called I nonsense…

            Because it is. You pick and choose which Levitical laws apply to everyone – even non-adherents to your faith – and which ones only apply to Jews, yet have absolutely no justification or reason WHY.
            You just said “oh, that’s for Jews only”.

            That’s nonsense.

            It’s amazing how you waste all this time trying to pretend that I’m attacking your faith, yet can’t spend 2 minutes writing a single reason that we should continue denying equal access to rights and privileges to Bermudian citizens currently denied that access.

            Why is that?

  10. Zoab Yob says:

    Fact of the matter is that we are in an enlightened age where religion is no longer the dominant force in our community. We can take it or leave it as we see fit according to our beliefs. Religion is an industry which for thousands of years has enjoyed a guaranteed captive client base, but now the intellectual atheists (Christopher Hitchens RIP) have challenged that dominance. For the first time,industrial religion is having to adjust itself to stay relevant to the people. To that extent, this good Reverend may be on to something; an undefined belief in a spirituality of human kind, whilst simultaneously dismissing the nonsense published in the bible which has hitherto bonded its believers in fanciful fear of torturous judgement, and promise (bribery) of reward for compliance.

    • Its me again says:

      Word. R.I.P Hitch

    • Zevon says:

      Great comment. Exactly right. I do miss Hitch.

    • HW says:

      There is nothing more nonsensical than the belief in a magical universe that was uncaused and came into being all on its own, for no reason.

      • Mike Hind says:

        Sure there is. There are plenty of things.

        Like Creationism. That’s COMPLETELY nonsensical!

        • HW says:

          How is it more logical and reasonable to believe everything came from nothing? Basic science tells us that anything that begins to exist, has a cause. Yet you seem to believe that somehow that doesn’t apply?

          • Mike Hind says:

            And yet you say He doesn’t have a beginning.

            I don’t think you know what the words “science” and “logic” actually mean.

            It is FAR more logical to realize that something backed by data and evidence, even if the evidence isn’t complete is probably more likely to have happened than something with absolutely no evidence at all.

            Your misrepresentation of the theories are specious at best and willfully ignorant with an aim to misinform at worst.

            It’s terrifying that someone in this day and age believes this stuff is science!

            • HW says:

              what evidence has there ever been that something that has a beginning can pop into existence out of nothing, by nothing, for no reason? please show me when that has ever happened in science.

              if you’d like to believe that’s more reasonable than to believe an intelligence created all matter, then be my guest. it is perfectly reasonable to believe in a creator.

              • Mike Hind says:

                There’s plenty of evidence.

                Where’s the evidence… Literally ANY… One single piece… Of creationism?

                Just one.

                • HW says:

                  that’s not an answer to my question

                  • Mike Hind says:

                    Oh, so now answering questions is important to you? Odd that, considering you never do the same.

                    Here. I’ll use one of yours as an example: go look for yourself and find the evidence.

                    It’s not hard. There’s tonnes and tonnes of data and evidence that backs up the theory of the Big Bang. It’s not hard to find. Google “evidence of the Big Bang” and you’ll find it. Is all the evidence in? Of course not. But there IS a lot of evidence that shows that it’s probably likely that this is how it happened. And if evidence comes in showing that it’s wrong, then they’ll change the theory or discard it altogether.

                    That’s how science works.

                    So…

                    How about you? Can you show a single shred of evidence that an intelligent being created all of this?

                    Anything at all?

                    Or is answering questions not important to you any more?

                    Or is it only important when you ask the questions?

                    Here’s a question I keep asking you and you never answer:

                    Do you have a single argument that you’re willing to defend against giving equal access to rights and privileges to Bermudians currently denied this access?

                    Will you answer that one?

                    • Daylilly says:

                      Mike, the fact that your own post and all of science call it a “Big Bang Theory” key word being theory is proof that no one is 100% certain of the origins of creation & man. None of us were there, we are all operating based on faith.

                      In terms of rights and privileges, all Bermudians already have equal rights and privileges. Some people want special rights. The proposed benefits people are claiming to want are already attainable without abolishing traditional marriage.

                    • Mike Hind says:

                      And here we have a perfect example of daylily’s ignorance.

                      A complete lack of understanding of the concept of scientific theory followed by an easily debunked lie.

                      People don’t have equal access to rights, as explained to you lower down the page, and removing 15c won’t abolish “traditional” marriage. That is a ridiculous bit of false, inflammatory language, designed to spread fear and misinformation.

                      Please stop it.

                      Please try honesty.

                    • HW says:

                      If you found a piece of complex machinery on another planet, would you assume it got there by a natural process and evolved?

                      Of course not. The complexity of it tels you that an intelligent being created it and it could not have come into being on its own, from nothing.

                      Understand- I’m not saying that this is absolute undeniable proof there is a God but it’s a very reasonable conclusion.

                      Another point- if all we are is just a collection of molecules in motion and your brain is simply a complex piece of machinery produced by evolution, why do you trust it? How do you know anything you think is reasonable, trustworthy, or true?

                  • Anbu says:

                    Yes it is lmao

      • Zevon says:

        So who created god? Did he come into being all on his own, for no reason?

        And why does god cause cancer in children? Is he deliberately ignoring the prayers of their parents? If he is omnipotent he could stop childhood cancer. Is he just mindlessly cruel and vindictive?

        If god exist, why doesn’t he offer some proof of his existence? Everything we see can be explained by science. There is no proof at all that god exists. If he is there, why doesn’t he show us?

        • HW says:

          he is the uncaused first cause. He doesn’t need a beginning. There has to be an uncaused first cause. It’s completely illogical and unscientific to believe otherwise.

          With regards to those other difficult questions, it would take far longer than I have to explain here.

          However I will say this- if this life was all there was,you could make those statements. Bt in the span of eternity God promises to make it all right. The reason the world is in a mess is because we are separated from God.

          Your accusation of his character is a bit like blaming a barber that there are so. Any people in the world with unkempt hair. Well if they refuse to come to the barber, it’s their fault not his. The suffering in the world is a sign that things are not right – the worlds suffering is the sum of each of us making sinful decisions and rejecting God.

          Finally, God DID make himself clearly known. He stepped into history as Jesus Christ and rose from the dead proving he is God.

          Now you might say “well why doesn’t he show himself to me here and now!?” Well he does say that if you seek him with all your heart and humble yourself before him, he will make himself known. But you have to come to him on his terms, not yours. Also if we could see him all the time, would we really be free? No. Love is not true love unless it’s a choice. We have the choice to seek him and love him or not.

          • Zevon says:

            Gibberish. Not one answer.

            • Daylilly says:

              Zevon. God doesn’t cause cancer in children. Many other things do cause cancer, like environmental toxins, DNA, household pollutants, stress, unforgiveness, and emotional, neurological and physiological dysfunction.

              These things have entered the world because people chose to abandon God’s laws in stewardship. People have refused to honor God by taking care of themselves, their land, and their brothers and sisters.

              • serengeti says:

                So why wouldn’t an omnipotent god have created things in such a way as to prevent cancer in children?

                Assuming for one moment that he exists, he created all things in, according to you lot, a magical omnipotent way. He did it all.
                So he created children’s cancer.
                You said yourself that cancer is caused often times by DNA. Who created the DNA, in your view? And who created the neurological or physiological dysfunctions that cause cancer? Why does god get a free pass on this stuff? He must have created it all, right?

                How do you then argue that a baby or toddler with cancer has ‘chosen to abandon god’s laws in stewardship’?
                So god allows kids to get cancer, because he thinks they have not been following his ‘laws’?
                So he’s a jealous vindictive killer of innocent children, according to what you said.

                Frankly, you’re talking total bull sh et.

                • Daylilly says:

                  Serengeti. God created all things. I didn’t say he made all things. Cancer and sin are made by the choices in which we have cared for the environment and ourselves. Creation and making are different.

                  I have lost loved ones to cancer and it is an ugly painful sickness, but cancer is not God’s design. God created life giving trees by the power of His Word. Man takes the trees and make food, tools and shelter. God creates, man makes.

                  Man’s choices (in and outside of the church) and lack of stewardship are why we have so many issues.

                  • serengeti says:

                    Nope. You can’t have it both ways. If god created everything, then god created all of life, and he therefore created cancer in children. You lot love to talk about how he created trees and flowers and bananas. But you recoil in horror when someone reminds you that he created every type of cancer. Diabetes. Zika virus. Dengue fever. You name it.
                    Children with cancer and other life-threatening illnesses have done nothing wrong. They are innocent.
                    You just choose to ignore the fact that if god exists, he is callous and uncaring about innocent children. He stands by with his arms folded and watches them suffer. He ignores their prayers. He ignores their suffering. If he exists, he is a vindictive callous killer.

                    • Daylilly says:

                      Serengeti. Your post shows a lack an understanding on so many levels. Nothing you posted has caused anyone to recoil in horror. You are free to make as many unintelligent and uninformed remarks as you like.

          • serengeti says:

            “With regards to those other difficult questions, it would take far longer than I have to explain here.”

            Take all the time you like. The truth is, you can’t answer the questions. No one can. You believe in a supernatural being for which there is no proof at all.

            • Daylilly says:

              Serengeti. See the response to Zevon. It’s really not that hard to realize that God didn’t create cancer.

              • serengeti says:

                daylilli.
                Of course god, if he exists, created cancer.
                Cancerous cells are living things. God created all of life. So it must follow that god created cancer in innocent children.
                If god is omnipotent he could prevent innocent children from getting cancer. But he doesn’t. He stands back with his arms folded watching them suffer.
                Frankly, he sounds like a vindictive psychopath.

                • Daylilly says:

                  Serengetii. If you are truly concerned with the welfare of children then please stop advocating the separation of children from their mothers or fathers via SSM. You don’t have to be an omnipotent God to see that nature has not provided for same sex couples to bear the fruit and unite in marriage. Having a relationship does not equal having a marriage relationship.

                  • serengeti says:

                    So. You lose the argument because it’s unanswerable, and then you spout some gibberish. Nothing new there.

                  • Mike Hind says:

                    What on earth are you talking about? The separation of children from their parents? How is this even a thing in your mind? Are you really this desperate?

                    And you’re pushing the already-debunked “procreation” argument, which you’ve been shown MANY times to be false as you don’t have to be able to have kids in order to get married.

                    Can you PLEASE try posting things that are true?

          • Anbu says:

            So anyone who has had cpr administered is god then?…..got it. I mean hey their heart stopped right ie. DEAD cpr brought them back so they must be god right?

            • Daylilly says:

              Anbu. What a ridiculous statement. You really must think before you type. Doing CPR and helping a heart pump doesn’t make anyone God.

              God created the heart. Create means to make something from nothing. Humans can only use God’s provision to make; they don’t create.

              • Zevon says:

                God did not create the heart. The evidence for evolution is overwhelming. There is no credible evidence at all, anywhere, that supports the idea that we were created by a supernatural being.

                • Daylilly says:

                  Zevon. As said in earlier statements. We are all operating in faith. There is as much evidence of Intelligent Design as there is a Big Bang. You have faith in a Big Bang and I will keep faith in a Big God.

                  • Mike Hind says:

                    More lies!

                    There is absolutely ZERO evidence of Intelligent Design.

                    Not one shred. If there is, post it here.

                    This is ridiculous.

                  • serengeti says:

                    There is enormous evidence for evolution.

              • Anbu says:

                Hey im just trying to make sense of the statement that because jesus rose from the dead it proves that he is god. How is it different from a person whos heart has stopped, ie DEAD and then has cpr administered to restart it, ie alive again. Rediculous?! I think not.

          • aceboy says:

            An uncaused first cause?

            You are basically saying that every other religion must be wrong then. Jews don’t believe in Jesus as being the son of God, neither do the Muslims.

            So your “proof” is in fact your opinion.

            Unless you really think you are morally and spiritually superior to the billions of non Christians on this planet?

      • Daylilly says:

        Very well said.

  11. wondering says:

    lest we forget that the modern Bible was rewritten under the influence of Constantine over the Council of Nicea.

    mankind rewrote it again during the Reformation
    King James had his own version and the list is almost endless…….

    don’t believe everything you read.

    Christianity was taken all over the world – in some cases by force and its teachings as we know them today are not all true.

    equal rights for all

    • Its me again says:

      Thank you someone who actually uses google

      • wondering says:

        3 words are from Wikipedia. All the rest I learned at home or in high school and university.

        The Crusades to name a campaign was nothing more than a Christian rape and pillage operation that netted some of the finest the middle east had to offer.

        • DanMBDA says:

          Well, it was kind of to return the Holy City to the Christians. Oh, haha, look, those pesky Christians again! Haha

    • HW says:

      I suggest you do more reading.

      • Mike Hind says:

        Any chance of an argument against marriage equality that you’re willing to defend?

    • Daylilly says:

      We all already have equal rights. Some people want extra rights. The proposed benefits desired by SSM are already attainable.

      • Mike Hind says:

        nope. Not true. At all.

        Completely false.

        We do not have equality at a ll.

        You, lower down the page, say that same sec couples do not meet the legal requirements for marriage.
        This, they are denied access to the rights afforded by marriage.
        Thus, we don’t have equal rights.

        You are spreading lies. Again.

        • Daylilly says:

          Mike you are speaking lies about people speaking lies again.

          • Mike Hind says:

            No. I’m not. I’ve explained how and where you are lying. This pathetic trolling is just sad.

            Please point out where I’ve lied, like I did for you.

      • Just the Tip says:

        While i know this to be false, i want to see you back this up

        What are the supposed ‘extra’ rights that we are asking for? and please do tell how we get all the benefits already??

      • Pastor Syl says:

        We do not all have equal rights, not yet. The advocacy for Marriage Equality asks for nothing more than the same rights as the rest of our society, not anything extra or more. If you really believe that same-sex couples are asking for something extra, please detail what exactly you think are those ‘extras.’

  12. Say Whaat? says:

    “LGBTQIA” Every time I look more and more letters are being added. Are pedophiles to be added next? What do the letters Q, I & A stand for?!?

    All of this because of feelings, people feel that they are girls when their dna and body tells them otherwise.

    Heck, I feel like a billionaire and I expect the rights of such! However, my bank account does not support this theory at all. But give me all of the prestige and power that comes with money! Any objections?!?

    • Mike Hind says:

      Intolerant much?

      A two second Google search explains this…

      LGBT: Abbreviation for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender. An umbrella term that is used to refer to the community as a whole. Our center uses LGBTQIA to intentionally include and visibilize the Queer, Intersex and Asexual communities under our umbrella.

      No, paedophiles will not be added, as there is no comparison. They’re not the same thing. At all. And shame on you for trying to make a connection.
      Before you high horse it, the difference is this: paedophilia has victims. The others are sexual orientations. The others are between consenting adults.

      As for transgender people, which is yet another conversation altogether, you aren’t getting it.

      It’s “their dna and their body” that have it wrong.
      These people ARE women. What their body says is none of your business.

      And you do already have all the rights of a billionaire.

      Your analogy is bizarre, off the mark and offensive.

      How about trying to counteract your ignorance with a little research, rather than spreading it here?

    • Ride says:

      L – Lesbian -> woman to woman
      G – Gay -> man to man
      B – Bisexual -> man or woman to woman or man
      T – Transgender -> person who does not self-identify to conventional gender
      Q – Queer – Any of the above
      I – Intersex -> Born with physical characteristics (complete or partial) of both conventional genders.
      A – Asexual -> person who is not capable of experiencing sexual attraction or having a desire for sexual partnering. This is different from celibacy/abstinence where a choice is made to abstain.

      • shutthemdown says:

        this is some finny sh.t., what letters are next ..lmfao

        I know the LGBT and QIA is sick just because they want to get married.

        Marriage sucks…..you just need recognition in the law.

        • Mike Hind says:

          This is gibberish. Nothing here makes sense

  13. The pastor has just denied his calling to the gospel ministry. What does he acknowledge as sin, or is there such a thing? The words , ” Go and sin no more,” shows to us that Jesus acknowledged something called sin. Adultery is sin, and sex outside of marriage is sin. Sex between same sex persons is also sin. This preacher is preaching another gospel, not the gospel of Jesus Christ. The woman caught in adultery was in sin. He who was without sin, could have thrown the first stone, and that was Jesus. Second person in the story , was the husband or fiance, who was the innocent party. He too could have thrown a stone. Bermuda must stand up . This son of the soil is so wrong. IF WE GET THE VOTE, VOTE NO NO.

    • Mike Hind says:

      Why? The other sins you mention aren’t illegal. Why should this one be?

      And why should your personal choice of religion be used to continue denying equal access to rights for Bermudians?

      Can you give one reason why we should continue this denial of access to rights? One that you’d be willing to stand up and defend and discuss?

      Or will you do the usual and run away without explaining yourself?

      • Mike, I see that you are really searching for answers. If you were to change your mind, would you find yourself standing with me.? Is there a good answer that you are looking for.? Many people stand on the fact that marriage is only to happen between a man and a woman. Can you live in a society such as that upholds that principle.? All things are fair, they may not be equal. SSM is not an equal argument.

        • Mike Hind says:

          So, no then.

          You won’t be actually engaging.
          As usual, you say a lot but there’s no real substance.

          Why can’t you just have an actual discussion about this?

        • Anbu says:

          And the only reason u feel so strongly that it should be between man and woman is because u are a church folk. Plain and simple. We do not need gods permission to do anything, ever. Quite frankly its none of the churches business, or yours. Its gonna happen whether u lot like it or not. Will not affect u in the least bit. In another 20-30 years it will be a pointless atgument as all the old “traditional” thumpers will be dead and gone

          • Daylilly says:

            The Word of God will outlast us all. The pendulum will swing back the other way anarchy and nonsense is not sustainable. This destructive, nothing matters and anything goes mentality has warped our children’s minds. They can barely learn to read and write before being forced to decide which letter of the sexual alphabet they feel like.

            • Mike Hind says:

              Her we see “daylily’s” true colours.

              The agenda is to force their religious taboos onto everyone else.

              Nothing in this post is true. It’s just privileged fearmongering.

              • Say Whaat? says:

                You’re one to talk of privilege Hind. I don’t think children should be taught such things at young ages.

                Daylilly has a great point, anarchy can only last so long. Ask Rome, where these SSM and other stuff comes from.

                Bermuda doesn’t want to end up like Rome, so we STAND and say No & No!

                • Mike Hind says:

                  This is just more enraged ranting spurred by a fear of a perceived loss of privilege, coupled with a thinly veiled demand that everyone follow the rules of your personal choice of religions.
                  This terror at the prospect of other people gaining equal access to rights has caused you to post completely bizarre and obviously false nonsense.

                  Ask Rome? What does that even mean?

                  You don’t think children should be taught this? Fine. Then don’t teach your children this. But where do you get off thinking you have a say in what other people’s children get taught?

                  Daylily DOESN’T have a good point. They don’t even have a point. They post lies, lies that have been shown, with evidence, to BE lies, all the time.

                  You are completely wrong on this and are on the wrong side of history.
                  Hate and discrimination for no reason is never the way to go:

        • PBanks says:

          “All things are fair, they may not be equal. SSM is not an equal argument.”

          Why? Marriage is a legal construct, what’s the problem with two people of the same gender wishing to marry?

          • Daylilly says:

            PBanks. Marriage is not consummatable unless it is between a male and a female. In the UK, annulments are available to male/female couples who have not consummated the marriage. This doesn’t apply to same gender couples because they can’t consummate. Same gender relationships do not meet the legal or religious definition of marriage. The politically correct among us wish to retrofit marriage to include any consenting adult relationship. On June 23rd just say NO!

            • Mike Hind says:

              This nonsense has been discussed and debunked already on another thread.

              Why do you keep posting the same misinformation?

              You have been shown to be wrong on this repeatedly.
              Please stop posting lies.

              And, before you start with the “calling me a liar doesn’t make it so” nonsense, this is a lie because consummation is not a requirement for marriage, the religious definition of marriage has nothing to do with this and the fact that the legal definition doesn’t fit is the entire problem and is what folks are trying to change. It’s not a reason why folks shouldn’t be allowed to get married.
              And, what’s so wrong with political correctness?

              Your entire post is wrong and doesn’t give even a shred of an idea as to why we should continue denying access to rights to Bermudians.

            • PBanks says:

              Forget the religion thing, it’s the legal part that really matters here, since that applies to everybody living here.

              The consummation angle doesn’t seem to have relevance here, because opposite-sex couples can terminate a marriage in a variety of ways. Heck, is consummation even a requirement of marriage? Again, legally speaking here… I know some Christian faiths make a big deal out of it.

            • Pastor Syl says:

              The word consummate in relation to marriage means to make it complete by having sexual intercourse. Your comment that a same sex couple cannot consummate their marriage makes absolutely no sense at all, based on the definition.

    • Zevon says:

      Are you suggesting the stoning to death of adulterers?
      That sounds like sharia law, although they limit the stoning only to women. Men get away with it.
      Of course, they kill homosexuals and apostates too. But that’s what you get if you follow literally a stone-age warmongering thug.

      • Stoning was just the form of punishment in that time. You made no mention of the words, ” Go and SIN no More.” Why? Jesus forgave the woman of her sin, than told her not to do it again. Did He encourage her to continue in that way of living or did He tell her to live differently? Zevon and Mike , Is there such a thing as SIN?

        • Mike Hind says:

          Sure! Sin is part of many people’s personal choice of religion.
          They’re welcome to go and sin no more.

          But demanding that other people follow the rules of your religion is wrong and unfair. Just like it would be if someone else demanded that you follow the taboos and sins of their personal choice of religions.

          What is a sin to you isn’t a sin to everyone. Do you have a reason why your definition of sin should apply to everyone?

        • Zevon says:

          These stories about Jesus are fiction, Rodney.
          You can believe them if you want, but don’t expect the rest of us to believe in superstitious mumbo jumbo. It’s an insult to our intelligence.

          There is no such thing as ‘sin’. There is right and wrong. Legal and illegal. Truth and fiction. There is no god, and there is no devil.

    • frank says:

      I will vote no no no no

      • Mike Hind says:

        You keep saying that, but never explain why.

        Very brave.

      • Daylilly says:

        frank. 90% of the world and almost 10,000 Bermudians agree with you. They have already said NO to SSM and NO to same sex civil unions.

        • Mike Hind says:

          And none of you have said why people should be denied equal access to rights.

          Why is that?

    • Pastor Syl says:

      The original consequence for adultery was for both the man and the woman to be stoned. By Jesus’ time, the ‘law’ had already been perverted so that only the woman (yet again) was to be punished.
      Paul was a Pharisee, a lawyer, who never knew Jesus. He had what he considered a revelation one day, but like the seed that fell on stony ground, his faith grew quickly and then just as quickly withered away, so he fell back on his legal teachings, reverting to the same behaviors that Jesus criticized so strongly. He was misogynistic and fickle. As long as a certain rich woman financed his travels, he had no problems with women. She even became the head of the church in her area. Once she stopped financing him, he ‘did not suffer a woman to speak’ in the church.
      There are several different words that the KJV translaters rendered as “abomination,” for example, shepherds were an abomination to Egyptians. Highly respected scholars make it clear that this word related most often to actions and artifacts that are connected with idolatry. The Biblical Old Testament strictures referring to homosexuality as ‘abomination’ are referring to the temple prostitutes, and the practice of using those prostitutes as part of the worship of idols, ‘false’gods and goddesses.
      Even Paul’s description of men who leave the natural use of women to turn to men for kicks, is clearly referring to heterosexual men for whom sex with a woman is what is natural for them. Being with a woman is not natural for same-gender-loving men.

  14. Somerset says:

    As a Christian Minister you will be aware that the “Good News” is that Christ died in our place, for our sins. We have been saved from the consequences of our sin by His death. Your statements about being a Minister of good news for everybody seem inconsistent with your rejection of the good news.

  15. Leroy says:

    Amen

  16. Average Bermudian says:

    ask fey ?

    ?

  17. Mike Hind says:

    And here we have it again.

    No one offering a single reason to continue denying equal access to rights and privileges to Bermudians.

    Not one.

    Lots of “I know more about the Bible than you!”, but no real answer to simple questions.
    Just more of the same ridiculous false arguments about paedophilia and “sin” and the rest of it.

    Not one person opposing marriage equality has the courage of convictions and honesty to even consider debating this in a real, honest way. Not a single one of them.
    It’s just misinformation and lies and delusional, privileged nonsense.

    We keep hearing that we have to respect these people. I have to ask “Why?”
    They very obviously don’t respect anyone else.

  18. Tiff says:

    I do not understand why all these people are so worried about the law being passed to ALLOW SAME SEX MARRIAGE. If you are not in a same-sex relationship the law WILL NOT AFFECT YOU AT ALL.

    You want to control someone else’s personal life and deny them the right to be happy all because of YOUR personal religious beliefs?? SELFISH A@@HOLES! Just because you vote no doesn’t mean that same sex couples will cease to exist in Bermuda…..you are just simply being a bully and saying that if I do not conform to your religion then I do not deserve to be happy (your way or no way).

    I hope that one day someone pries into your life and denies you of something that makes you happy; that is given to a number of your counterparts, HUMANS.

    The government is wrong to put this to a vote. No where else have I seen STRAIGHT couples human rights put to a vote. I think that we should also be able to vote on divorce and tattoos. The BIBLE is against that too and because I do not like tattoos and choose not to get them then no one should be able to get them BECAUSE I THINK THAT THEY ARE WRONG. ITS GODS BODY AND YOU CANNOT MARK IT. All the people that are getting divorced and remarried that has got to stop also.

    Oh why we are at it all the bastard children born out of wedlock I think now is the time to put them to rest because after all that is a sin. Sounds ridiculous doesn’t it?? That is how you straight people sound. Get over yourselves.

    GOVERNMENT IF HOMOSEXUALS CANNOT GET MARRIED THEN SIMPLE NO ONE SHOULD BE ABLE TO GET MARRIED. THAT SOLVES THAT. EQUALITY.

    • Daylilly says:

      Tiff. 90% of the world has not redefined marriage. Many of those people are not Christian. Actually, the “Christian” predominated countries have been the most tolerant. There are many people who cite no religious context as the reason for their belief. Is 90% of the world selfish jerks on some vendetta against gay people.

      • Mike Hind says:

        But why shouldn’t we? You’ve never given a reason you can defen.

      • PBanks says:

        The only non-religious explanations I’ve seen here of late have been the procreation angle, which was refuted since you don’t need one to do the other.

        If there are well-being of society reasons to keep the status quo, those need to be outlined, seriously. Because the whole ‘Adam and Steve’ thing has long passed its sell-by date.

  19. Pleaseandthankyou says:

    Thank you. Finally a minister that stands up and admits that there is a lot of wrong doing and misjudgments out there by the churches and that the true message needs to the population needs to be love.

    Of course now the church folk and the local ministers will call him a false profit because he speaks against their prejudices and wrong doings. Feel free to do so. Just makes their ignorance that much more evident.

    Thanks for the positivity and supporting the LGBT Reverand Burchall. Cant wait to actually go to a church here that actually speaks in positive terms and accepts all for “who” they are and not what people “want” them to be.

  20. no more war be quiet says:

    The article written by Rev. John-Anthony,

    was first and foremost a self-centered piece, that was written in a way that first tried to impress people with words, local knowledge and theological knowledge. It lacked substance of note and left people just as confused, bitter or angry as they where before they read the article.

  21. Rene C says:

    NOTICE
    For all those who believe in GOD please collect a copy of your BIBLE make billions of copies, hop on the nearest photon of light and swiftly speed away and spread a copy of the bible throughout every galaxy/planet in the universe. It may take 13.8 billion years but there will be a special place for you in heaven for spreading God’s work. And by the way tell them that the other few thousand God’s we used to believe in don’t count any more.

  22. ImJustSayin says:

    The Bible is what the title says, the story book. The Bible contradicts itself so many times it’s a sin in itself. No one or church should be pushing their religious beliefs on anyone.

    • Daylilly says:

      You are miseducated if you think the Bible contradicts itself.

      • Zevon says:

        The bible is a very interesting work of fiction. It is not, however, anything more than that. It should no more be used to guide our lives than any other work of fiction.

      • Just the Tip says:

        Thou shalt not kill

        Then God tells the Hebrews to go into Palistine (sp) and kill every one.

        Just one off the top of my head

        • Ed Case says:

          The bible, when read by anyone at all, makes the person a non believer. People who still believe in that rubbish (religiotards) obviously have not read the bible. Read it, I promise it will cure you.

      • Ed Case says:

        Day lily that is ridiculous. The bible contradicts itself at every point. It also says it’s ok to own slaves as long as you beat them but not enough to kill them . Any woman who is not married and not a virgin has to be stoned to death. And all you people worry about is one verse of Leviticus that you interpret in a certain way. You church people disgust me. Why are you so interested in what I do with my genitals?

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