Groups Call For Human Rights Act Amendment

February 7, 2013

The Centre for Justice in collaboration with Amnesty International Bermuda, the Human Rights Commission, Rainbow Alliance of Bermuda, The Vision Ministry and Two Words and a Comma have produced a booklet calling on the new government to amend the Human Rights Act to include protection from discrimination based on sexual orientation.

The booklet [PDF] was forwarded to Premier Craig Cannonier, and a copy was issued to every MP and Senator. The 68-page booklet contains an array of items including a copy of a draft bill which addresses the amendment they seek, a copy of the Centre for Justice petition with 776 names on it, and various other material on the issue.

A screenshot from the booklet showing a highlighted section from the OBA’s election platform:

Fullscreen capture 272013 60556 PM

It also lists supporting statements from people including Premier Craig Cannonier [OBA], Minister Shawn Crockwell [OBA], MP Walton Brown [PLP], MP Michael Scott [PLP], former Opposition Leader Kim Swan [UBP], former Minister Wayne Perinchief [PLP], former Premier Sir John Swan [UBP], former MP Charlie Swan [UBP], former Premier Paula Cox [PLP], former Opposition Leader John Barritt [OBA], former Minister Renee Webb [PLP] and lawyer Shade Subair.

The island’s religious community is also represented, with statements from Catholic Bishop Robert Kurtz; former Anglican Bishop Dr Patrick White; and Wesley, Ebenezer and Emmanuel Methodist Churches. Dr White is quoted as saying, “Protection for homosexuals needs to be clearly stated” back in 2008.

The debate over adding the amendment to prohibit discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation has been going on for several years. In 2006, Renee Webb brought before the House of Assembly a Private Members Bill to add sexual orientation as a protected grounds of discrimination under the Human Rights Act. The bill did not pass.

In the last Throne Speech in November 2012, the Governor said Bermuda’s Human Rights Act 1981 “no longer meets the standard for human rights in a 21st Century democracy,” and said Government proposes to introduce a “new broadly based Bill” that will address protection against discrimination based on age and sexual orientation.”

That Speech from the Throne was held under the old Progressive Labour Party administration, and the Governor will deliver the Throne Speech for the new One Bermuda Alliance administration tomorrow.

The  Throne Speech outlines the Government’s planned programmes and legislation for the ensuing Parliamentary year, and if the new Government plans to make any changes to this law in that timeframe, it is likely to be mentioned tomorrow.

The topic has been headlining the international press lately, with Britain’s parliament recently voting heavily in favour of legalizing gay marriage and President Barack Obama recently becoming the first U.S. President to address gay rights during an inauguration speech.

“Our journey is not complete until our gay brothers and sisters are treated like anyone else under the law,” President Obama said. He also mentioned the gay rights Stonewall Riots of the 1960s in the same breath as the Selma civil rights marches.

The full 60+ page booklet can be read here [PDF].

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  1. Government Plans To Amend Human Rights Act | Bernews.com | February 8, 2013
  1. M.P.Mountbatten JP says:

    All ADO ABOUT NOTHING !!!

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    • Clive Spate says:

      I've always wanted to know what the M.P and JP in your name mean.

      Could you please elaborate?

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  2. University Grad says:

    yawn..more serious issues to be dealt with..give them 3 years before they try to win some votes

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  3. J Starling says:

    I look forward to hearing the Throne Speech tomorrow, and hope that this issue will be addressed in it - and resolved later in this parliamentary sitting.

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    • Judge Dredd says:

      Should marriage between adult mother and daughter, father and son, brother-brother etc be allowed? Does 'two words and a comma' include incest couples? If not WHY not?

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      • Will says:

        you are a long way from Mississippi my friend...where incest is taken off the law books because its too frequent to police....
        But what does that have to do with banning discrimination against a set of people. Gay marriage is also different to what you are comparing it to. Incest is wrong, but there is nothing wrong with two people of different families and backgrounds loving each other..doesn't bother me one bit. Curious as to why you seem troubled by gay people?

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        • Judge Dredd says:

          Why is incest wrong? According to what moral authority are you claiming this? Is this your religious belief? Why are you discriminating against incest couples? What the flying £uck does Mississippi have to do with this? Curious as to why you seem troubled by incest couples? Two words and a comma includes them too doesn't it? Why are you discriminating?

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      • Clive Spate says:

        Careful. The gene pool in Bermuda isn't exactly the most varied!

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  4. stand up says:

    We have more serious problems than to worry about 2 guys holding hands..

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    • Clive Spate says:

      If more guys here were holding hands than guns it'd be a safer place!!

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      • Judge Dredd says:

        Problem is that guys holding hands are also shoving their guns into other guys' bumpies and shooting them with AIDS. Not so safe.

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        • @judge not so dredd:You ought to know!!!!!!homophobic bytch. Jealousy "wood" get you right where u want to be. Accept people for n NOT for what. You don't have that call n flip your dumb @$$ opinions. It is folk like you who hide behind that saying "down low"....a down low dirty shame when u assume you can tell guys what they can do with..... (as you call it).......with their guns u homophobic precarious bastard........eff ewe. Go sit on that gun bitchhilda n MYOB. Who died an made u judge, jury n executioner.....they should have taught u to do right; act right n stay out of sight. STFU.

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        • Will says:

          wow..you seem to know a lot about what happens in the private lives of gay men...is there something you'd like to share with us.
          This has always made me laugh. the biggest homophobes claim to be because they know all the nasty shit that gay people get up to...weird

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      • Ted says:

        Funny how these gangsters spend all day hanging out with other guys... And when they go to jail they end up having a good time with other guys around. Bermuda is full of gay men. When will people accept it for what it's worth? Not a big deal. Move on

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      • almostthere. says:

        A safer place for you not me, the idea of two men holding hands in any affectionate way is revolting tome as a woman! There was unity at the beginning of time that got all of us here...There is no need for gay rights to be on paper! whether it is or not should not force people to have an opinion about it either way, it just boils down to SEX most chicken sh@! guys that are afraid to attempt the challege in life which is to get along with the opposite sex in order for there to be balance in life, are probably in favour of this legislation but it is an abomination to all women or should be.Rights as human beings needs to be assessed for BLACK AFRICAN PEOPLE FIRST!!!!!!!this is just another wrench in our efforts to be understood as the constant victims of a system we truly despise as it has never helped to progress the efforts of blacks whose blood sweat and tears are being enjoyed by non-blacks since slavery!!!!I hate this stupid system and hate the one percent who represent all whites!!!WAKE up black people , your rights are the only important rights at this moment, AFRICA is being raped again as we speak, if you don't care about it than I don't care about two guys who can't decide where to put their little penis

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        • Will says:

          please hide and die. people like you are whats wrong with everything. You are aware that there is probably more gay black men then white men? Africa has a HUGE gay population. The reason being is that its so taboo there, and taboos seem to attract a lot of followers..human nature. but you wouldn't know that because you are terribly uneducated...dont bother arguing with me, because i can tell you failed in school and life.

          ps..if you are sooo concerned about Africa..then go back to Africa where you belong

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        • Judge Dredd says:

          You are a REAL woman @almostthere. Never legalize crackpipe!

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    • Rich says:

      You might. But those 2 guys may think otherwise.

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  5. simon say's says:

    @ Stand Up........

    Agreed!!! I second your thought process!!

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  6. cant fool me says:

    %$#$ THEM GAYS KEEP UR LIFESTYLE TO URSELF I CAN PUT U IN THE SAME CLASS AS MURDERERS N THEIVES U ALL LACK IN MORALITY!!!!!!

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  7. maybe says:

    All citizens of this country have basic human rights, so why should gays, lesbians, queers, transgenders, and other crossthreaded people get special privilege. God made adam and eve, not adam and steve. Everything in life has male and female- people, animals, plumbing and electrical fittings, etc and for good reason. But they will whine until they get what they want. You lot already have rights and straight people have the right to not put up with you lot flaunting your unnatural ways. Yes, you can be gay if you like, but some of you go overboard.

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    • Rich says:

      Plumbing and electrical fittings?? Seriously?

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      • almostthere. says:

        @Rich--Have you ever heard of a bulb screwing into itself...a plug has to go into an outlet..duh! seriously...everything is based on female and male component..only idiots are confused..

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    • Um Um Like says:

      Why does it bother you so much that a minority is requesting to have the same discrimination rights as a majority?

      Perhaps you should be fired from your job (assuming you have one) because you're straight. While you're at it, have your landlord evict you on the grounds of your sexual orientation. Maybe then you'll reconsider your stance.

      Assuming one believes in "god", regardless of what god created (Adam & Eve- brother & sister?), wouldn't god want all to be treated with respect and not discriminated against?

      You can be straight if you like, but some of you go overboard.

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      • Will says:

        its true..some of the straight people go way more overboard than gay people do. One guy grinding up like 20 girls in a night and vice versa. the way some of the guys dress with pretty much boxers on show, with a Dora the Explorer backpack...must be pure gays in bermuda..and all of them from the age of 14 when they start with their gay ass backpacks in school.

        lets see how have things changed since i was a little white boy in school:
        -socks pulled up =GAY
        -pink clothes/tee shirts= GAY
        -mohawks= GAY
        -dyed hair= GAY
        -skinny jeans= GAY

        and now what have we got? All of the above endorsed by de gangstas..i guess the only thing that will make people in Bermuda be accepting of gays is if BET does it first..bunch of effin sheeples.

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        • Ty says:

          @will - And remember if you had just 1 ear pierced - you were gay. Show me TODAY any man, straight - crooked or cock-eyed that has one ear pierced. They got em all over their faces. And also - even Lil Wayne states that he buys a lot of his clothes from womens stores.

          And to those that say God made Adam and Eve.... then we are actually ALL screwing our brothers and sisters.

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    • .am says:

      If you believe in God and that all things were created in his image ..you realize that would include Steve too, right?

      And for as many appliances that are male of enable, there are just as many female to female and male to male. And some organisms have no gender at all.

      LGBT rights are no different from 'straight' rights. They just want the SAME rights.

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      • .am says:

        *male to female

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      • almostthere. says:

        @.am--and how did steve get here? You forgot about the Goddess that brought forth life! silly wabbit tricks are for kids..that stupid carrot is a man made vegetable like some of you confused humanoids...You have been tricked and deceived not to undertand the importance of the female Queen.

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        • leroy says:

          Is Eve the 'goddess that brought forth life'? The same lady who magically grew from the rib of Adam? Lmao! Tricks are for kids and yet you are still a believer in the magic voodoo being spouted in the bible.

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      • Judge Dredd says:

        That's right God created Steve from a MAN and a WOMAN. So should incest couples be allowed to marry too? If not WHY not? They just want the SAME rights too. LGBT rights are no different from incest rights so why arent you standing up for them too? Why the discrimination?

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        • R@s cl@d says:

          This is your eighth post about incest , is there something you are trying to tell us ?

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          • Judge Dredd says:

            YES jack@$$ I've been telling you openly to your face that you have to stand up for the rights of incest couples too. I'm not 'trying' to tell you. It's clear as day. Are you trying to make me feel bad if im an incest partner or child of incest? Do you want to bully me and discriminate against me? Do you know how many children are children of incest in Bermuda? Do they deserve your insults and underhanded bullying?

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    • Rebel says:

      So TRUE ..... they are too much... I do not want to see them kissing holding hands on the streets of Hamilton, paget, Bermuda,etc.

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    • Delaey Robinson says:

      The same and other bigoted arguments were put up against the abolition of slavery, women voting, civil rights and now the GLBT community. The right to not be discriminated against is a basic human right. Bermuda is so far behind more enlightened places on this earth. I hope the OBA have the courage to make the necessary legislative changes. Politically the time is now, early in their term.

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      • M.P.Mountbatten JP says:

        Delaey , you of all people I would never have expected to build your flimsy argument on the backs of slavery and the civil rights movement .

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      • Judge Dredd says:

        @Deluded Robinson. The same arguments the Heterosexuals use against the Gays are now being used by the Gays against incest couples. Are those the bigoted arguments you refer to? I hope YOU have the courage to stand up for incest couples too. Or will you run from this by claiming it's 'illegal' just like gay sex was illegal too? Or will you just ignore me and run? Answer this since you want us to be enlightened and were 'so far behind'...Does two words and a comma include incest couples? YES OR NO? Don't run.

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        • Delaey Robinson says:

          incest couples

          I am on a learning curve here since I had not before now realised that there was a movement advocating rights for 'incest couples.' If there is one, it certainly does not seem to be widely reported in the mainstream print and electronic media, (which does not of course invalidate it). So with my extreme naivete in these matters I hope that the following does not offend: I would like to know at least
          two things, 1/ what constitutes an 'incest couple' and 2/ what sorts of discrimination are these couples facing?
          Purely working from first principles I assume that an incest couple could consist of two people of the same or different genders who were born of incest from a) different or b) the same parents, are c) siblings or are d) parent and sibling. Taking a) there is no reason I can think of why such a couple should not be married and I am sure it would be legal. I the case of b), c) and d) there are two possible objections which leap to mind. Moral questions aside, for
          all three there exists a strong taboo in most cultures today that these couplings should not be sanctioned by marriage and in many places they are illegal. But so far as the taboo is concerned, what is it based on and is it credible? Well the second objection is that there are very good genetic arguments against such couplings where they intend to produce their own biological children, for there is no more efficient method of exposing genetically based diseases born of inbreeding. With today's advances in genetic
          screening however, it is not beyond the realm of possibility that such couples could be genetically screened to determine the probabilities for genetic problems in offspring. If for these purposes we are able to get our heads around ignoring the taboo and to put aside any moral considerations, then we are likely to be left with weighing up costs and benefits based on genetic probabilities.
          Such considerations would be difficult enough for the potential parents themselves and the medical clinicians advising them. I submit that it would become quite a dogs dinner for politicians to consider and I would not be surprised to see them running away from it altogether.
          It will I am sure have been noted that I have not included religious considerations as these would require a book which I do not feel qualified to write. Although there are so many religions in the world and often many conflicting denominations within any given religion, I suspect that, in view of the widespread taboo against incestuous couplings, religions would be able to find some common ground.
          By simply being a human being I feel more qualified to comment on moral questions. There are of course historical examples of a variety of incestuous relationships: in ancient Egypt where it was legal and by Roman Emperors with their siblings where it was not legal. I believe there is a form of incest among the Balinese though I have no idea how widely or if it is practiced at all today.
          My own conviction is that it should depend on the relationship between the couple as to whether it should be sanctioned by marriage. Particularly in biological parent child incest, where there has been a parent child relationship, the state should not sanction marriage. This has been quite controversial where the parent and adoptive child have sought legal sanction for marriage - I am against this where there has been a parent child relationship. One could go on and on, and I have not yet researched this subject, but to answer the challenge: do I stand up for incest couples? Yes to type a) above, couples born of incest but from different parents. My guess is that the real question is about sibling incest - as I have said above, this would have to be weighed, pros and cons, based largely, for practical purposes on genetic probabilities derived from screening and with the advice of medical clinicians to avoid sometimes horrible congenital problems.

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  8. What Do You THink says:

    Maybe, you hit it right on the head... Not sure why they need additional rights. Why should something that is not natural be force upon us normal people and the minute we stand our ground on your view, you deem us as homophobic. For one we people who are not gay or believe in your way of life are NOT homophobic. You homosexuals chose a way of life that you knew from the beginning was wrong, the one reason why you all in the closet about it.
    1, You are disobeying God
    2,Your disrespecting your parents
    3,It is not natural
    So don't call me homophobic because you engage in nasty ways and then expect those of us who know different to side with you. you all are CRAZY

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    • Sandgrownan says:

      I think you are an ignorant sack of sh*t. But that's just me.

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      • Will says:

        i agree with Sandgrownan
        @the a#$%ole above (What do you think)....um last i saw they didnt choose this lifestyle..you are either born homosexual or not simple.
        I guess however you chose to become a huge arsehole...thats a learned behaviour.and not natural.

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    • Toodle-oo says:

      @ WDYTH

      Here we go again .. the 'it's a *choice* they made ..

      So tell us please , exactly how old were you when you *chose* to be straight ? Maybe you can tell us the date even ?

      Or are you suggesting that you're lucky enough to be bi-sexual and *choose' not to act out on your gay feelings ?

      Will any of you fools who rattle on about it being a *choice* ever realise how truly idiotic and uneducated you sound ?

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      • Anbu says:

        Um just wondering where the gay chromosome shows up in the DNA stand? Come on show me, ill wait..............They r born that way? What a laugh. Whatever peeps just get it over with and give them the rights so they will shut up about it. We have way more important issues to worry about right now.

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    • sebbie3000 says:

      I assume, then, that you must know this for a fact because you have faced this choice yourself?And your argument about it not being natural... You're using a computer, that's not natural. Do you drive, live in a house, ever use medicine? A whole heap of stuff we do is 'not natural'.

      Your argument is as pathetic as you're belief in a magical sky-being. Just crawlback under that rock in which you live, and stop polluting the world with your evil thoughts.

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  9. Truth Seeker says:

    If all the citizens of this country have basic human rights then why on earth do we have a Human Rights Act that specifically protects people against discrimination on the grounds of colour, race, thnic or national origin, marital status, being born out of wedlock, being disabled, etc etc. The reason is clear. These folks were discriminated against so much that the HR Act was introduced to make sure their basic human rights were enshrined in law. 'Maybe' would no doubt have called them all ”whiners” until they got what they wanted.

    When you have people who are of a different sexual orientation being called “crossthreaded”, wanting “special privileges”, and who are regularly subjected to other abuse and insults from the likes of 'Maybe', then it’s time to protect their human rights so that they are treated as equals. Nothing more and nothing less.

    It is not against the law in Bermuda to be gay, nor is it an offence to be an adulterer even though my bible makes it abundently clear what we should do with adulterers!

    Despite some people alleging that gays want to “flaunt their unnatural ways” , the real problem is that those same people see nothing wrong with discriminating against people who they see as different from, and less than themselves. That is exactly the reason why we need to amend the Human Rights Act to include “sexual orientation” on the list of people protected by the Act.

    Could 'Maybe' please specify all the ways in which gays “get special privileges” not enjoyed by others? Can you list a few. Go on, I'm sure you can think of a few. Well, if that's a problem, how about just one.

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    • Portia says:

      Unfortunately, despite what some groups would have you believe, protecting gay rights is not as simple as "two words and a comma". It actually would involve a review of other current legislation as well. The Marriage Act, which sets out that marriage is between a man and woman, would also need to be amended, and you would also have to review the law regarding inheritance to ensure that there is nothing in the Succession Act that discriminates against a gay partner inherting from their gay partner, in the absence of a will.

      Not only that, but you would also have to review the current regulations that determine who can receive benefits of health insurance, life insurance, etc. This would involve consultation with the stakeholders who manage that business. Why is it fair that a person cannot put their elderly or out of work parent on their health insurance, but gays want the right to put their partner on their health insurance if they need it? Isn't that discrimination on the grounds of age?

      And furthermore, if the Human Rights Act is amended, then you would need to put provisions in the law to ensure that religious organizations are not obligated to hire a gay person, if it conflicts with their religious doctrine. They have a right to freedom of religion and to not be discriminated against as well. Also, an individual should be not forced to rent their apartment to a gay couple if they don't agree with it. It is THEIR home and property - why should Government have the right to dictate to people who they should have on their property? We all have freedom of conscience and if our conscience makes us feel strongly about something, that too deserves to be respected, as much as others are seeking respect for the way they are.

      It's all about finding the right balance and respecting the rights of ALL. It cannot be accomplished overnight, and the gay community needs to understand that and realize that Bermuda is not like Canada or other liberal places, so they may not get everything they want.

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  10. Just us says:

    Every gay person has a mother and father...

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  11. Concerned Citizen says:

    Social and sexual deviance, on behalf of an international agenda to undermine the family unit, which is the foundation of all civilizations. An attempt to redefine societal norms by attempting to make the normal and natural look unnatural and not normal. The agenda is gay marriage, which is a false or contradictory term, but it is destructive. Any thing that is not natural is anti life, meaning that it is a dead end.

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    • Ted says:

      "International agenda to undermine the family unit" - FFS, Bermuda has so many conspiracy theorists it's ridiculous! Crawl back under your rock and please stay away. Your deviation from acting normal is more concerning than the sexual orientation of people you have never met.

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    • Will says:

      Ok, so you see a problem with gay people marrying because its anti life....OPEN YOUR ^&&*NG EYES!! Does it look like we need more people being born here? S%^t the majority of the population already has that one covered since Lois Evans told y'all to f&^% in the bushes decades ago.
      We need more gay parents because im sure we wouldnt have all these wannabee gangstas running around. The whole problem we are facing today is absent fathers..whats better than having two?

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  12. The Devils Isle says:

    The World as we know it will never be the same and I say that to say this: This Gay and Lesbian trend is all the Devils doing and interfereing with people starting a real family. Look at how various different countries are supporting Gays and Gay rights, marriage etc.. They are chopping and changing the laws to justify their Evil wickedness as though is right.. In other words they are changing the laws around to make sure you can get incarcerated or prosecuted for speaking your mind or beating the living crap out of someone who is gay. Its amazing what people with $$$$ can do. Dear Lord if there's ever a time we have needed you most now is the time there are too many people being taken away from us too soon and the Devil is spreading his wickedness we need peace and love worldwide...

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    • Um Um Like says:

      First of all, homosexuality is not a trend!

      Are you saying its ok to beat "the living crap out of someone who is gay" and NOT be punished for it? Yet that's not evil- that's not the devil's work!? Is it god's will for you to beat the living crap out of someone who is gay? What kind of god do you worship?

      If you have kids I hope they torn out to be Bermuda's most flamboyant homosexuals, so gay they'll put RuPaul to shame!

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    • almostthere. says:

      @devilsisle--I agree-- lets call the evil, ones out because gayness was never a part of African?black civilization and the structured way of living was always based on the highest respect for females, whose momunments still stand today and who we adore and uplift! There are many historical documents of women who have fought and won in war but because of the early christian hatred for women, which is why no women was cited as the Goddess she is the "KA" spirit reference is woman and has always been misconstrued as an invisible "spirit" not occupying an earthly body, but women are the "SPIRIT" and we do bring life! The book oflittle books was written intentionally to downplay the Royal Highness of the BLACK woman, the first creator of human beings, and therefor gain false control of the world..But the true original world order will be the last world order.

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      • leroy says:

        Respect for black women is sorely MISSING from Bermuda today. How many have babies with more than one baby daddy? How many aren't married yet have children? You talk out of your a#s. Maybe you need it plugged!

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      • Will says:

        to the Africa lover above...you really need to educate yourself! There is a huge gay population in Africa....and if you wish to look at women being treated with respect and dignity then i'm afraid you are in the completely wrong continent...Africa's human rights record is appaling..more so than when Europeans where in charge..hence some places actually want Britain back..

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      • Pastor Syl Hayward says:

        @ almost there: I'm sure respect for women is why we are still fighting to stop female genital mutilation in Africa. And for sure, that is one practice that cannot be laid at the white man's door.

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  13. Judge Dredd says:

    I have a simple question for the Drainbow Alliance. Does 'two words and a comma'include adult incest couples? I.e. if a father and daughter want to get married or mother and nephew, sister-brother etc. does two words and a comma include rights for them? If not, WHY not? You are always trying to 'marry' your cause to the civil rights movement so do the honorable thing and accept that you are opening the door for ALL forms of sexual deviancy, not just sodomy. Own up to it and expand your representation for ALL and not just lgbtq. Why are you discriminating? Include an 'i'. It should be ILGBTQ. Should incest be allowed and if not why not? That is my question which I've asked you many times and still received NO answer and I'm sure you read here so please answer it if you dare.

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    • Sandgrownan says:

      Sounds like you are obsessed with incest. Is there anything you ought to be telling us?

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      • Um Um Like says:

        He's just defending his parents. Give him a break.

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      • Judge Dredd says:

        HOW DARE YOU discriminate and say that about me? HOW DARE YOU insult incest couples? I'm no more obsessed with incest than you are with bumhole so don't you dare diss incest couples for their sexual orientation. A man should have the right to marry his daughter when she becomes ripe for the picking and a loving mother should have every right to offer her fresh milk once again to her grown son or daughter. Why you hating? None of you LGBTQ BIGOTS will answer a simple question YES or NO, Does 'two words and a comma' include incest couples? YES or NO? and if not WHY not? WHAT moral framework informs you that incest is wrong and deserves to remain illegal? Shouldn't incest couples be given the same rights? Huh BIGOTS?

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        • Judge Dredd says:

          @Um Um Like
          So what if I WAS defending my parents or my own incest relationship? Why are you insulting me for my or my parents' sexual orientation? Why did you insult me like that? So you want to oppress and deny equal rights to incest couples yet claim that you are on some high road of justice and equality? You won't answer a simple question. All of you claim the answer to my question is so '"SIMPLE" but you write paragraphs to disguise your BIGOTRY and HYPOCRISY when I asked firstly for one word, YES or NO? And THEN your reason why. BIGOTS like Truthseeker and Ted defend their bigotry with the law when it is precisely the law i'm saying is discriminatory in the same way they say the illegality of gay marriage is discriminatory. HYPOCRITES!

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    • Ted says:

      Incest is illegal. Marrying one's own family member is illegal. Being LGBT is not illegal. Comprende?

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      • Judge Dredd says:

        So is gay marriage BIGOT HYPOCRITE! And Gay sex was also ILLEGAL so you are saying it should have remained illegal? You're a discriminating BIGOT. Two words and a comma includes incest couples and as soon as the law is on the books we are coming out of the closet.

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    • Truth Seeker says:

      This is really a very, very simple question to answer. And from now on Judge Dredd will NEVER be able to say that he has still received NO answer.

      Incest is a criminal offence under our laws - plain and simple, no doubt because society realized many years ago that inter-breeding of close family members was causing birth defects.

      It's also a criminal offence in Bermuda to have sex with young children because they need to be protected from sexual predators until they are of an age to make their own choices.

      It is NOT, I repeat NOT a criminal offence in Bermuda for consenting gay adults to have sex together, and there is very little chance of them conceiving babies with birth defects! Nor is it a crime or offence in Bermuda to commit adultery despite the fact that my bible is absolutely specific about it being an "abomination", it is included in the Ten Commandments, and the punishment to be meted out to adulterers is also quite clear - death!

      I often hear people quoting the bible in support of not granting equal human rights to gays but I NEVER hear these same persons demanding that adulterers should be treated exactly like gays.

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      • Judge Dredd says:

        Gay marriage is also illegal, so what the HELL is your point bigot? And gay sex was also illegal so are you saying that incest couples don't deserve the same rights that gays enjoy? You guys are bigots. Look how you act when another group asks for the same rights you want to have, your discrimination shows. You are just as discriminatory as the people you claim discriminate against you. Don't hide behind the law when you yourself are trying to CHANGE the £uck!ng law bigot. So you're trying to change the law and simultaneously using the law against incest couples to discriminate against them? You're a filthy bigot. Two words and a comma includes incest couples too. Why not? And what moral framework informs you that it is wrong or should be illegal?

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    • I want to clarify, because you seem confused about what the amendment actually means, the "two words and a comma" simply add 'sexual orientation' to the human rights act, which protects individuals from discrimination on the basis of housing, employment, and provision of goods and services.

      Now, I am curious, Judge Dredd. Do you have any data, statistics, or other facts relating to the prevalence and/or existence of incestuous relationships in Bermuda? I'd really like to know the numbers. Or, do you know anyone personally who engages in incest? Just wondering, because I can't remember ever hearing about it.

      Also, you keep referencing sodomy (anal sex presumably). Did you know that some gay male couples do not actually have anal sex? It's all a matter of personal preference. I know of some gay men who only enjoy manual or oral sex. Just like not all straight couples have anal sex, so too do not all gay male couples have anal sex. Also, should I assume you don't really care about lesbian sex, because it usually doesn't involve butt holes?

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      • Judge Dredd says:

        I know exactly what the two words are. Answer the damn question and stop running. Are you saying that rights should be based on statistical data as to the prevalence or amount of people there are? How many are enough or not enough? So discrimination is ok as long as its only a few? You've clarified nothing. You've dug a hole for yourself and you havent answered the question.
        Does ‘two words and a comma’include adult incest couples? YES or NO? Don't weasle. You're showing your true colors. You are not about legal rights for sexual orientations. How dare you demand draconian statistics as if all incest couples have to put themselves on a register and be further discriminated and mistreated? You're a bigot. Why are you rejecting incest couples from their rights? What moral framework informs you that incest is wrong?

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        • Judge Dredd ... you are nothing more than a sh*t disturber. Stop pretending to campaign for incest couples' rights. You're just a trouble maker. Also... I never said I was speaking for the Rainbow Alliance. I just support them.

          If you really want an answer to your question on whether or not "two words and a comma" includes incest couples, I suggest you contact a lawyer, who can break it down for you. I'm not a lawyer. However, I do own a dictionary. Sexual orientation is defined as, "A person's sexual identity in relation to the gender to which they are attracted; the fact of being heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual." SEXUAL ORIENTATION SIMPLY MEANS, WHICH SEX YOU ARE ATTRACTED TO.

          I don't think ANYONE should be discriminated against in terms of housing, employment, and goods and services. ANYONE includes incest couples (though I'm still not convinced that this is a real thing in Bermuda), pedophiles, etc. The Human Rights Act even protects those with a criminal record (except where there are valid reasons relevant to the nature of the particular offence for which he is convicted that would justify the difference in treatment)... that would include convicted rapists, murderers, and pedophiles even ... no??? Of course, the act would NOT allow a convicted pedophile to work at a daycare, for instance. Now kindly STFU.

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  14. R U Serious says:

    Next it would be men marrrying men, women marrying women............Next Beastiality!!!!!

    Mr. Craig Canonier......Wake Up!!!!.........Don't do it!!!

    In the dance now.......the only people that are dancing is girls with girls.................Country is getting SICK!!!

    The young men are on the side watching!!!

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  15. Sandgrownan says:

    So much stupidity..it burns. I don't think I've read quite a concentration of idiotic ramblings by bigots in my life. It seems many of you are so lacking in self awareness that you learnt nothing from your own struggle. It's actually remarkable in its selfishness....i've ogt mine so f**k you.

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    • J Starling says:

      Agreed. There are some extremist and confused arguments here, largely, I feel, coming from people's fear.

      Nonetheless, I hope the new parliament successfully amends the legislation to include sexual orientation.

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    • God says:

      It's crazy. These same people think they are good Christians.

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      • leroy says:

        Last night I was listening to a talk Richard Dawkins once gave. In it he said there have been numerous studies that show an inverse relationship between intelligence (high iq and/or higher education) and religious beliefs. Based on his premise 90% of Bermudians must therefore be idiots.

        Reading the above has proven just how idiotic some people can be...

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  16. CHEEE KUMS BIE says:

    LOL YEAH WHAT HAPPENED ABOUT THE INCEST RIGHTS?? IM SURE THAT THERE IS FATHERS AND DAUGHTERS WHO ARE OF AGE WHO WOULD LOVE TO GET MARRIED, BUT THEY ARE A MINORITY IN THIS COUNTRY, OH ALSO WHAT ABOUT THE DENDROPHILIAC'S??? IM SURE THERE IS SOME NICE LOQUAT AND CEDAR TREES THAT THEY WILL LOVE TO BE AROUND IN PUBLIC WITH...

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  17. God says:

    I made straight people.

    I made gay people.

    Love,

    God

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  18. CommonSense says:

    The homophobia on this island is appalling. It shows just how ignorant and close minded Bermudians really are.

    @ Judge Dredd - Your comparison is ludicrous, two people of the same sex being together is incomparable to immediate family incest. Your argument has no ground to stand on.

    @ all those with religious arguments - Your lack of humanity and compassion shows just how "Christian" you really are.

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    • almostthere. says:

      @Commonsense---if you had any common sense you would pick up a book and read about "chritianity" which truly has absolutely nothing at all o do with humanity and compassion..It starts of with War!!!!the christianity that exists in your mind is just as futile as your argument.There are many confused men that have had sex with their daughters this has been going on for centuries just as the white oppressor raped black women constantly and burned the babies or gave them away! Did you mean that christianity? Cos the same people are holding the political power today and have never apologized either.

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    • CHEEE KUMS BIE says:

      Common Sense you are very moral phobic, and religious phobic, two people of the same sex being together is morally wrong, but if they wish to do that then ok fine do it, however the society at large is against that and the only rights that your trying to promote is the sexual rights of choice, if that is the case then there is also other morally wrong sexual choices as well, and if you deny that then you are a hypocrite to your own cause.

      Which would make the cause that you are fighting for just plain stupid! You cant fight for perverse sexual rights but restrict it to just same sex, you have to fight for all perverse acts of sex.

      All you need to do is turn on Jerry Springer to see a grown woman and man (brother and sister, mother and son, father and daughter, daughter and daughter, brother and brother) and see families practicing perverse sexual acts. Now why would you discriminate against then when its obvious that they love one another?

      ITS BECAUSE SOMETHING INSIDE YOU SAYS THAT THAT IS MORALLY WRONG! AND YOU WOULD NOT FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH A PERSON WHO BOASTS THAT THEY HAVE SEX WITH THEIR OWN CHILD EVEN THOUGH THEIR CHILD IS OVER 23.
      So if you can see something wrong with that (which is a case of morality), then you should see that something is morally wrong with being with same sex. And if you dont see nothing wrong then shut up and sit your unmoral self down

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      • Will says:

        me confused once more...what makes two gay people having feelings for each other perverse? have you ever taken time out to think that maybe they think your sex life is perverse? I am all for gay marriage etc (im straight), i dont care what two people get up to in the privacy of their own lives..i am part of this society and i want it to happen which shows that most of society is against it..you'd be surprised to find that bermuda isn't full of all hate filled bigots who like to think they can dictate what goes on.

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        • Will says:

          isn't against it*

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          • CHEEE KUMS BIE says:

            Will they can never ever ever ever think that my sexual lifestyle is perverse......WHY ......BECAUSE IT WAS MY SEXUAL LIFE STYLE THAT BROUGHT THEM HERE IN THE FIRST F!@#$NG PLACE,.....thank you
            smh cheekums bie some people (O_0)

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      • leroy says:

        How old were you when you started liking girls? Or at least started feeling attracted to them?

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      • Um Um Like says:

        Yes, let's bring Jerry Springer in on this! After all, everything he airs is factual! No stories made up there!

        FYI, sexual orientation isn't a choice.

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      • God says:

        You are uneducated. You are stupid.

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  19. asher says:

    The Rainbow Coercion will never clarify their stance on incest cause they now full well the truth but they would have a tough time showing how this is any different from their definition of sexual orientation. This is nothing more than some damn agenda. You have blatant homosexual ministers, police offices, MPs, the list goes on and on, your got the bar in Hamilton so what discrimination crap are they talking about. If Im a blatantly openly gay transvestite porn star that likes to have a little me time with my dog fido, cause we know dog is mans best friend, would the Rainbow come support me when I am denied a position to teach elementary school? Not expecting any answer cause these people know the truth, being a nice person is all beside the point. They know this bullcrap argument about being born this way is balony. As I have said before they refuse to deal with the incest and padeophilia issue which is gaining momentum amonst phychologists in the United States that this too is being deemed a sexual orientation and the only reason they wont deal with it is because they know full darn well they won't get any support in this island on that issue. Discrimination my A$$. If any thing half the previous cabinet was gay were is the discrimination? Your got them in high positions in the regiment, were is the discrimination?

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    • leroy says:

      Incest is illegal, idiot. Being gay isn't. Is that so f$%%ing hard to understand? Incest isn't the topic of the debate. Equal rights is. The amount of people obsessed with incest/pedophilia on this site is disturbing. Does that stuff float your boat?

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      • Will says:

        hidden fantasies mate...this is Bermuda afterall..probably not uncommon for some of these guys to fancy their cousin or something..
        As for the paedophilia part..well thats up to them..maybe they are too scared to speak up about their experience as a child :P

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      • Judge Dredd says:

        Wasn't Gay sex illegal too? So you are saying that the law should not have changed? You agree with denying rights for other sexual orientations as long as your own is cool? You are a bigot hypocrite showing your true colors. How dare you say that incest is not the topic of the debate if EQUAL RIGHTS is? Does that not mean EQUAL RIGHTS for incest couples? Don't incest couples deserve to have their sexual orientation decriminalised? Two words and a comma includes incest couples and we are coming out as soon as this law is passed. Joy to the world!
        And Do NOT try to lump pedophilia with incest between consenting adults. Nice try. Do you like it when people lump gays with pedophiles? didn't think so. Incest is between consenting adults. You're a gay bigot discriminating against incest couples and against their equal rights.

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  20. Will says:

    to clarify for all those people who are some how riled up over incest etc....Incest is NOT sexual orientation. Having sex with your daughter is Straight Incest..with your son is Gay incest.; Now if all these peoples answers and theories were right, pertaining to gasy cant have kids etc..human existence will fail etc....THEN HOW THE HELL WILL THEY BE ABLE TO HAVE SEX WITH THEIR CHILD..you people sicken me that you compare homosexuality to rape/incest/paedophilia....you really need your heads examined and NOW.

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    • CHEEE KUMS BIE says:

      how is it not sexual orientation???? a grown 60 year old daddy and a grown 30 year old daughter having sex and children is a choice. so why do u defend ones choice of who they sleep with but hate on anothers choice..you're a hypocrite

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    • Judge Dredd says:

      HYPOCRITE!!! How dare you say that incest is not our sexual orientation? How DARE you?!? Your true bigot colors are showing. So if a man has sex with a female horse it's STRAIGHT beastiality and if with a male horse it's GAY beastiality? Are you going to actually throw that utter bull$#!+ our way? Do you say that about bisexuals who go both ways? Ok so why can't incest include gay or straight sex? You're a BIGOT! Furthermore what moral basis informs your statement that people cant be able to have sex with their child? And who said incest is only parents and offspring? Besides, there is no child in an ADULT consensual incest marriage. At least with incest the son actually came out the mother's vagina. But sodomites can't claim they came out their partners bu$%ole. So which is more natural? You're discriminating.

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    • Judge Dredd says:

      And nobody said a DAMN THING about rape or pedophilia. I know you would love it if we were but we are NOT. Rape and pedophilia is about NON-consensual sex AGAINST someones will. We're talking about ADULT consensual incest so nice try.

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  21. CommonSense says:

    Comparing incest to homosexuality is like comparing apples to oranges. Incest is wrong because it can have victims and causes birth defects. Homosexuality has no victims, it is simply two people caring for each other, as hard as that may be for you to understand.

    What does create victims is hate, prejudice, and bigotry.

    These people are not asking that they befriend you, move into your neighborhood, or join your church. They just want to be allowed the basic rights that the rest of us have. If anyone should be able to sympathize with them it should be people that have experienced prejudice and bigotry themselves!

    Oh and @ almostthere - I apologize for not being up to par with my christian literature, I don't spend a lot of time reading fairy-tales.

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    • CHEEE KUMS BIE says:

      If comparing incest to homosexuality is like comparing apples and oranges then i will accept that analogy. Because THEY ARE BOTH FRUITS!!
      They maybe different but at the end of the day THEY ARE BOTH FRUITS!,
      Incest has victims and it doesnt have victims..like i said Murry and Jerry always have REAL brothers and sisters in love...and children are born from brother and sisters having sex.... homosexuality does have victims...lol just go to any prison and see if you find any victims,..... so yea although both different the sexual act is still perverse and unmoral.....so thanks for your apple and orange analogy couldnt say it better lol

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      • Truth Seeker says:

        @CHEEE KUMS BIE - Hopefully, our new Government will do what the former Government promised to do but failed to carry out. Your hatred and contempt of homosexuality is proof positive of the need to protect their basic human rights.

        You keep comparing incest to homosexuality and obviously have no conceptioon of the essential differences. As I wrote in an earlier post, incest is a criminal offence under our laws – plain and simple, no doubt because society realized many years ago that inter-breeding of close family members was causing birth defects. Please note that no-one, not a single person is advocating for that law to be changed.

        It’s also a criminal offence in Bermuda to have sex with young children because they need to be protected until they are of an age to make their own choices. Pedophiles often victimize children of the opposite sex and their vile acts have nothing to do with homosexuality. No-one is campaigning to change the law regarding under-age sex or to allow pedophilia. No-one.

        It is NOT, I repeat NOT a criminal offence in Bermuda for consenting gay adults to have sex together, and there is very little chance of them conceiving babies with birth defects! Nor is it a crime or offence in Bermuda to commit adultery despite the fact that my bible is absolutely clear about it being an “abomination”; it is specifically included in the Ten Commandments, and the punishment to be meted out to adulterers is also quite clear – death!

        I often hear people quoting the bible in support of not granting equal human rights to gays but I NEVER hear these same persons condemning the morality of adulterers.

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        • CHEEE KUMS BIE says:

          incest is a crime up to a certain age....but a grown man and woman (father and daughter) over 21 can have sex and not be arested

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          • Truth Seeker says:

            Please let me assure you CHEEE KUMS BIE, it is a criminaloffence in Bermuda to commit incest - no matter what the age. Pwerhaps you can specify where in the Crimonal Code it says that incest is permitted over the age of 21. I eagerly await your proof.

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            • Judge Dredd says:

              That's the point! Gay marriage is also not legal so what the hell is your point bigot! Why shouldn't incest be legal? And with two words and a comma the illegal status of incest must immediately be struck off the law books. IMMEDIATELY!

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              • Truth Seeker says:

                Mmmm. So I asked a simple question that is quite easily answered, and for that I'm labeled a "bigot". Bigoted against whom exactly? Persons who commit incest? Just to reiterate the question, Judge Dredd made the erroneous - completely false - statement that "a grown man and woman (father and daughter) over 21 can have sex and not be arrested". If he reads the Criminal Code he will immediately see that this is pure nonsense.

                Judge Dredd makes the statement that "Gay marriage" is not legal, but I have made absolutely no mention of "Gay Marriage" I simply pointed out that sex between consenting gay adults is not illegal in Bermuda, nor is the new Government proposing to legalize Gay marriage. It is simply proposing to add "sexual orientation" to our Human Rights Act so that 'bigots' will no longer be able to discriminate against persons because of their "sexual orientation" in those areas covered by the Act.

                Judge Dredd is now demanding that incest must be taken of the books IMMEDIATELY. Sorry but I don't even begin to follow his logic. Perhaps I've missed something, but is anyone other than Judge Dredd suggesting a that we amend the Criminal Code to legalize incest?!!!

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  22. asher` says:

    LOL were the idiots??? Sodomy was once illegal too you know so what your saying is if it is legal than go for it? So you rainbowites probably need to get your own definition of sexual oreintation straight first of all before you go about your banter. Sexual orientation is commonly discussed as if it were solely a characteristic of an individual, like biological sex, gender identity, or age. This perspective is incomplete because sexual orientation is defined in terms of relationships with others. Your sexual orientation vagueness which by the way is intentional for whatever crops up in the future can simply come under this definition. So if in 10 years it is okay for a daddy to marry his daughter you rainbowites can't say crap, if Jack paedophile has enough support from the psycholgists to dtermine from their studies that this is a genetic predisposition to having sex with children wallah slap it under the sexual orientation banner and everything will be fine right???? You guys are all hypocrites and you know it. Homosexuality has been around since the dawn of civilization so it is not going anywhere but don't talk crap about it not being harmful, having constant anal sex not having any consequenses. I guess the tobacco companies can say the same thing Look how many people smoke its ok, what harm is it. But don't talk about being discriminated because you can't get an apartment, or a job. I have never ever heard someone go into a job and say Im hetersexual you know, give me a break. And please pretell how you rainbowites are being discriminated against exactly? Your got the television, the media, the fashion, the music, the politics, the movies, the cartoons, the books, the education...ahh golly gee really looks like your having a severe problem, I know I know you want the right to marry and live happily ever after. Give me a break. Eeryone that is married wants to divorce but the gayites want the right to marry LOL. GO FOR IT!!! Just wonder who would get the kids now in court. Would it be Steve or Dave?

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  23. asher` says:

    Truth seeker you hear quotes from the bible from all sorts of people even people that study witchcraft so whats your point? People quote shakespeare does that mean they are an avid student of english or poetry. You keep saying thats not what were advocating for... not yet maybe, 20 years ago you would never even hear about two words and a comma debates, despite the fact the number of homosexuals in our society, seeing cartoons with gay characters and the like. Just given enough time who knows what you will be advocating so never say never. Who cares if you never hear some so called bible quoter or so called christian abide by thir own rules, if you know the truth than thats what you must deal with. All your looking for is some damn excuse to legitimize your argument. Can gay people be happy, yes, can gay people be kind , yes, can they be good friends, can you love another person of the same sex, yes, however is their lifestyle conducive to reproducing life, NO. THATS A FACT!! Are you saing it is totally natural to have the type of sex gay men have despite its proliferation? why not the ears, that was an opening too? THis may sound stupid but the point being was it made for the use that perverted man has made it for and calling an exit an entrance NORMAL. ANd I agree women do it too, my point is you are completely deluded if you think that this is a normal behaviour your born with and is something that was learned regardless of so called sexual oreintation. You know why christianity has become the top religion of debate on this issue, it is because they have become so watered down that is has become a joke, when was the last time you heard of a moslem gay cleric (even though there may be some) but their not going to do it publicly in that society or a gay marriage in a mosque?

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    • Truth Seeker says:

      @asher - I get your drift regarding your attitude towards gays, but can you please advise on your position regarding adulterers. The point I was making is that many folks are violently opposed to gays and usually use the "abomination" argument, but those same folks NEVER argue that adultery is an abomination, and is also specifically mentioned in the Ten Commandments. Neither adultery nor gay sex is illegal in this country of ours, but I seldom, if every hear anyone condemning adulterers as they do gays. Gays also seem to get all the blame for our lack of morality. Now that really is a joke! We may have 5% of our population that is gay. I would guarantee that more than 50% of our Bermudian males are adulterers, so who is resonsible for our lack or morality?

      Incidentally, your attitude towards gays convinces me more than ever that "sexual orientation" needs to be included in our Human Rights Act for obvious reasons.

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  24. Judge Dredd, asher, CHEEE KUMS BIE, and anyone else using incest as an argument, please read:

    http://babelwright.wordpress.com/2012/09/19/if-you-allow-gay-marriage-incest-will-be-next/

    While the HRA amendment has NOTHING to do with marriage, hopefully this article clears up some things for you regarding homosexuality vs. incest.

    "The “gay marriage slippery slope” argument is based on the idea that the only thing justifying making incest, animal marriage, polygamy, etc., illegal is a commitment to traditional or moral values, and if we throw those out to allow gay people to marry, then on what grounds will we be able to argue against incest etc.?

    What anyone is making this argument is missing is there are arguments against incest, etc. that do not apply to gay marriage.

    There is not a slippery slope from gay marriage to incest. If you’ve already ascended and started heading down the hill of “gay people can marry because they’re people too, and damn the tradition” there is still another treacherous moral mountain you’d have to climb and overmount in order to start allowing incest.

    It is most definitely not the case that we disallow incest just because it’s traditional to do so. While it is true that it is not traditional to allow it, it is also true that is not allowed because: 1) sexual union between close relatives produces dangerous genetic aberration, 2) incest, like statutory rape and certain kinds of workplace sexual harassment, too often by definition involves a perpetrator who holds authority and control over a victim who doesn’t have sufficient freedom or maturity to make a decision otherwise, and thus violates the requirement of consent (admittedly this is a limited argument, but a forceful one in the cases where it applies, i.e. child-parent incest) 3) there is an observed biological imperative against incest which suggests that we are backed up by natural law in censuring it. None of these arguments apply to gay marriage."

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  25. Common Sense says:

    Rainbow Supporter makes perfect sense to me.

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