Bermudian Describes Kenya Mall Shooting Terror

September 21, 2013

[Updated: Gunmen opened fire in a Kenya mall today, killing over 55 people and injuring at least 150 more. Bermudian Joanne Ball-Burgess was in the mall at the time, and spent 3 hours locked in a bathroom before making a run for it, and escaping to safety]

Bermudian Joanne Ball-Burgess, who lives in Africa, was caught up in a mass shooting at a shopping mall in Nairobi today [Sept 21] that left over 20 people dead, and has been posting about it on social media.

Ms Ball-Burgess posted on Twitter and Facebook, “Thank God I am safe. We ran out of the bathroom through a fire exit when the bathroom started filling with smoke. Lots of gunshots. The woman who I was with in the bathroom lost her son and mother-in-law.”

 

CBC News reports that, “Gunmen threw grenades and opened fire inside Nairobi’s most upscale mall, killing at least 22 people and wounding dozens on Saturday.

“A Kenya Red Cross official gave the death toll and reporters said they saw several dead bodies more than two hours after the attack began at the Westgate shopping centre. Officials did not give an official death toll.

“Nairobi police chief Benson Kibue said this was a terrorist attack,” the CBC news report said.

 

The New York Times reports, “Gen. Abbas Guled, secretary general of the Kenyan Red Cross, said in a phone interview that 20 people had been killed and over 50 wounded. The police said four people had been wounded but had not yet confirmed any fatalities.”

“Police helicopters circled above the mall as armed police shouted “get out! get out!” and scores of shoppers fled the building. Smoke poured out of one entrance of the high and witnesses said they heard grenade blasts,” said Reuters.

“Others said they saw about five armed assailants storm the beige stone Westgate shopping mall and that the incident appeared to be an attack rather than an armed robbery.”

Update 12.16pm: Speaking with Bernews, Ms Ball Burgess – who said she is still shaken up by the incident – said, “I was in the mall because I needed to go to an ATM.

“When I was coming out of the bathroom I heard gunshots and people started running into the bathroom. I was locked in a stall with 2 other woman. One of the women lost her son and mother-in-law to gunshot wounds from the thugs.

“After 3 hours and hearing lots of gunshots the bathroom started filling with smoke. There were 8 people in all in the bathroom. We decided to make a run for it.

“We ran to the back cleaning room and then more people came running. They were throwing up and sweating heavily. We weren’t sure if the gunmen were on the steps or not but decided that we needed to get out.

“So we ran down the fire exit out to the parking lot. The police were there. I fell on the ground and the police and ambulance personnel took me into the ambulance.”

Update 4.52pm: International media reports indicate the death toll has now been raised to 31. There were also 100 people injured, the official said. Al-Shabaab, an al-Qaeda-linked militant group based in Somalia, claimed responsibility for the bloodshed.

Update 5.54pm: Unfortunately, the death toll continues to rise, and is now at 39 dead with 150 wounded, Kenyan President Uhuru Kenyatta said in a televised address this evening.

Update Sept 22, 9.32am: The death toll has now been placed at 59.

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  1. Family Man says:

    Islam. Such a peaceful religion. NOT.

    • Ride says:

      Christianity is perhaps the most violent of all the religions looking over the past several hundred years.. Its spread was not due to its superior ethics or philosophy but do to its followers superior ability to transport more advanced weaponry, violence, and deceit from their homelands.

      Ride

      • Terry says:

        Very true Ride.
        Greed and money.
        Shalom.

      • that one guy says:

        islam spread by the sword as well just saying

      • Sapphire says:

        @Ride: ALL religions have been violent in the past-we’re talking about NOW. NO religion besides Islam carries out this type of violence today. These Muslim extremists believe that everyone should be Muslim and if you’re not, then you deserve to die. These men asked victims to recite an Islamist prayer-if you didn’t know one then you clearly were not Muslim and so they killed those individuals. What if any of us had been there? I’ve visited this mall in Kenya before…I could have easily been there! I don’t know any Muslim prayers so I would have been a goner if I’d come across any of these terrorists.

        Of course not all Muslims are bad people but their way of thinking as a religion is very scary. They treat women horribly and are just so rigid in their views. Christianity isn’t like that-Christians don’t treat non-Christians badly and think they should die! Muslims actually say that it’s in the Quran that non-Muslims (infidels) deserve death so these people carrying out these deeds believe they are doing a good thing and being obedient just the way Christians believe they are being obedient by say, fasting-can you compare the two? Nothing in the Bible says to kill non-believers…Christians believe that is God’s job on Judgement Day whilst many Muslims believe it is THEIR job right here on Earth. How can you even put these two religions on the same level???

        • Just input says:

          Ummm u obviously clearly need to look at history…. Christianity was spread via conquistadors ravaging foreign lands…even today at football matches in Scotland/Ireland are violent between Christian and Protestant followers. I don’t disagree wholly with ur statement but be fair with regards to all religions… I’m not religious and this is why!

          • Family Man says:

            Between Christians and Protestants huh?

            Thank you, you’re just a wealth of knowledge.

          • Albert says:

            Lol Christians and Protestants … Don’t you mean Catholics and Protestants???

            • Just input says:

              Lol Exactly…simple error….but non-the-less u knew what I was talkin about

        • Milton says:

          @Sapphire
          You begin by saying Muslim Extremists, acknowledging that they are indeed extremists with their own agenda. But then you end by comparing Religions as though you wish to imply that all muslims are extremists or that the extremists are following Islam. Christianity has no extremists whatsoever! The most extreme Christians are the the virgin girls refusing to eat their vegetables. Why don’t you compare Muslim extremists to Christian extremists instead? There are plenty of both in Africa.

          • Sapphire says:

            @Milton: The Quran says it’s o.k. to kill Non-Muslims so the most extreme of the religion will act on that…but the very fact that it is allowed by islam period makes me have a problem with that religion. That and the fact that they treat women horribly and believe a bunch of other junk. Since when has a Christian father killed his daughter for straying away from the Bible? Well, it happens in Muslim countries EVERY DAY!

            @Johnny: The people who start wars and steal oil can hardly be considered genuine, practicing Christians and you know it. They may come from primarily Christian countries and have been raised as Christians but they can hardly be called Christians now. TRUE Christians do not murder people or support those who do.

            Besides, those carrying out those acts don’t carry those deeds out in the name of Christ or the Bible-these Muslims carry these acts out in the name of their religion quite proudly. Christian nations don’t carry out acts of war only against Muslim nations-when’s the last time we attacked Jordan or Saudi Arabia? It’s not about religion when we attack those Middle Eastern countries. I’m not saying we’re right to do so, but again, we don’t do it in the name of Christ!

            • Milton says:

              I’m not a scholar admittedly but I am one of the few who have actually gone and read the Qur’an and I didn’t find what you are talking about. I did find, however, the advice to ‘fight those who fight you’ and the permission to fight and kill combatants. Then I found where you are not allowed to be aggressive to people who are not aggressive to you. Aren’t you empowering extremists by endorsing their evil interpretation of a religious text rather than joining forces with those who denounce and condemn them of their own faith? I find it interesting that you and the extremists share the same view about Islam. You both think it is a violent religion. You belong together.

            • Milton says:

              Then you speak of the fact that killing is allowed. Sapphire… Are you for real? Doesn’t every country have a military and code and rules for war (killing)? Aren’t soldiers allowed to kill? Would you not kill to defend yourself from invaders coming to rape and murder you and your women and children? Of course you would. Now why would you follow a religion or live in a country which said you couldn’t do that? You wouldn’t! So don’t be a hypocrite. Stop being intellectually lazy and draw the necessary distinctions between the right to defend oneself and an extremist political agenda. You are an extremist yourself, I assure you of that.

              • Sapphire says:

                @Milton: How can you compare a country’s military code to the actions that Muslim militants carry out??? Are you f**king serious? You sound really slow and ignorant right now.

                Does the U.S.or U.K. military go into shopping malls and shoot and kill innocent people if they don’t know the name of Jesus’s mother like these people did because they didn’t know Mohammad’s mother’s name? Do Western soldiers get onto public buses and blow themselves and everyone else up to Kingdom Come like what has happened in Israel many times? Yes, Western militaries do questionable things but they don’t carry on like these Muslim psyopaths!

                How am I ‘empowering’ extremists? You really sound like a first-class fool. Do they really need anyone to empower them? No, they don’t. They have their interpretation of the Quran and feel that it is perfectly o.k. to kill innocent people.

                There are many, many, MANY Muslims with this same kind of thinking. They aren’t just in Kenya, Somalia, Pakistan, the West Bank, etc. They are now in the U.K., Sweden, Denmark, the U.S., etc. etc. and GUESS WHAT, you naive fool…there are probably a bunch sitting right here in Bermuda! You probably don’t know it, but the police, Customs, etc. have had security experts here who have warned that we could have cells here, people who come here as cooks or whatever and then plot our demise. Why do you think the U.S. took over the screening of visas for people coming to live and work here? What does it have to do with them? What it has to do with them is that we have close proximity to the U.S. and these ‘employees’ are a threat to the U.S., that’s why!

                You are gullible and naive. I’m not here to attack Muslims as a whole. I’m here with my eyes wide open calling it like it is and saying that Islam IS a dangerous religion because of the potential to breed nutcases who need NO encouragemnet from me or anyone else to kill as many of us as they can, because they feel that it’s the right thing to do based on their religion! NO other religion supports violence the way that Islam does whether you accept it or not…yet they claim to be such a peaceful people? Give me a break…who the hell do they-or YOU-think they’re fooling here???

                • Sapphire says:

                  Pardon the typos…rage made me mess up…gosh some people are so stupid and inbred…

        • Johnny says:

          @sapphire, what do you think the gulf war is. Christians trying to takeover Muslim land to steal their oil. You won’t see the USA trying to go to war with Germany for it’s natural resources, because they are Christians also. The USA is a Good example of Christians killing thousands of innocent people.

        • Somerset OG says:

          How about all those Christians bombing and killing people in the middle east in the name of democracy?

      • People will be people the world over and you can not hold a religion or a group responsible for the irresponsible actions of a fool.

        • Milton says:

          Perhaps you were only dispelling generalizations about Christians but, if not, I respect you for this comment Duane. I apologise because I thought you would capitalize on the opportunity to demonize Moslem people while establishing Christian moral superiority. Maybe I’m wrong about you.

      • avista says:

        rot in hell you islamofascist apologist scum

        apologist for child killers and killers of pregnant women

    • Micro says:

      Idk why you’re even bringing up religion…

  2. Frightening situation indeed. Thank God Joanne made it out alive but still so sad for the murder victims. Another cowardly attack on innocent people by thugs with an extremely distorted perspective and guns.

  3. Yes I says:

    This has nothing to do with religion. So quick to point fingers and assume. RIP to all the victims and their families and to Jo-Anne, glad you remained safe and sound. Unfortunately nowhere in the world is safe and this could have easily happened in Bermy.

    • Sapphire says:

      @Yes-it DOES have something to do with religion; you clearly have not read/heard all the reports. The terrorists were going through the mall saying they only wanted to kill non-Muslims. When they came across people who were not easily identifiable as Muslim, they asked them to recite an Islamist prayer. If the person could not, they clearly were not Muslim and so the terrorists instantly shot those individuals.

      Muslim extremists carried this out so yes, religion does come into play here.

    • Mayan says:

      @Yes I: The U.K.’s Daily Mail has good coverage of this story. Religion is involved as this was an act of terrorism carried out by Muslims looking to kill as many Non-Muslims as possible so this isn’t about pointing fingers but about cold, hard facts. If you were at the Mall and a Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, etc. then you would have been toast so it is all about religion!

      I looked the mall up online and it does appear very beautiful and upscale and somewhere you wouldn’t expect something like this to happen. Victims were just hanging out on a Saturday just like folks hang out at the mall in the U.S. or Canada. Who would have expected for something like this to happen? My heart goes out to the victims.

      BTW: From the last I heard, there are still hostages inside all the gunmen haven’t been captured as yet so the death toll could climb even higher.

      • mixitup says:

        The U.K.’s Daily Mail has good coverage of this story. Religion is involved as this was an act of terrorism carried out by Muslims looking to kill as many Non-Muslims as possible so this isn’t about pointing fingers but about cold, hard facts

        I don’t trust any news organization! They can tell you anything they would like you to believe.

        • Sapphire says:

          @mixitup: Numerous eyewitnesses reported this as did multiple news outlets. I can get cynical as well about what’s put out there but many, many people reported that the perpetrators allowed the Muslims to go and killed the non-Muslims.

      • Some people comment without reading more often than we think.

    • Tiger Lily says:

      Thank you – I’m glad for all who still have life after such an ordeal.

    • Joanne says:

      @Yes I thank you for your kind words. Our hearts go out to the others who didn’t make it out.

  4. Sapphire says:

    A friend just called me about this and I am in shock. I have visited Kenya and been to this shopping mall and I was telling a colleague about it just a few days ago! I was telling my colleague that with the way things are in Bermuda and how expensive it is, that I wouldn’t mind moving to Kenya. My colleague was like “Kenya?!” and I had to tell her that it’s not what people think and that it has lots of modern areas, people of all races, and nice shopping just like in the U.S. and was telling her about this particular mall. It’s really beautiful and just like any mall you’d find in North America.

    It makes my flesh crawl to think that something like this would happen. I can’t wait to talk to my colleague on Monday about this. Despite our problems, I think I’ll keep my butt right here in Bermuda where I seriously doubt something like this would happen. This Muslim extremism is some really scary stuff.

    • Vote for Me says:

      @ Sapphire
      Many think ‘the grass is greener on the other side’… but when they get there they discover it is astroturf!!’

      You say you do not expect such a thing in Bermuda and you are probably right, but the equivalent for Bermuda is the murders that we are not taking seriously.

      Joanne, if you are reading these comments, how is Quincy and the children?

      • Sapphire says:

        @Vote For Me: I well realize that the grass isn’t always greener but my thinking was to do with how much further one’s money could go in a country like Kenya whilst enjoying a high standard of living…Bermuda is just getting ridiculous with how much of one’s wages go just to pay your mortgage, home upkeep, insurance, Belco, Telco, Cablevision, etc. It gets to where you just work, work, work and then get to retirement age and just die from the stress of working so hard for so many years so you don’t even get to enjoy the fruits of your labour. If you can find the right country to emigrate to, you can actually get to enjoy life while you’re young and healthy enough to fully appreciate it.

        As far as not expecting something like this in Bermuda, I mean as far as mass murders and the like. Yes, we have gun crime just like every other place but we don’t have the mass school shootings, movie theater shootings and the like so for that we’re very lucky.

      • Joanne says:

        Hi everyone,
        We are safe now and doing fine. The kids are sleeping. Not sure if I’ll be able to do the same tonight…

        • Tiger Lily says:

          Amen – what an ordeal.

        • Pitbull says:

          Hi Joanne I’m really glad to hear that you are safe. Hopefully in time you will be able to sleep peacefully after an ordeal like that.

        • Cuzzin says:

          As a people we are so predictable. This woman went through a horrible ordeal, and all we can think about is religion and it’s ills. Send best wishes and prayers to this lady and her family, stop the negativity. Madam, I wish you well and hope that you and your family remain safe.

          • Are you kidding me? says:

            @Cuzzin: You really need to grow up. This Bermudian lady went through a terrible ordeal but most of us are also looking at the bigger picture. This act of terrorism appears to be carried out by Muslim extremists so of course people are going to discuss religion! This is a problem (Muslim terrorism) that is permeating all over the world and could happen anywhere. Who’s to say that this won’t happen at Mall of America or King of Prussia Mall or any of the malls we as Bermudians visit? Any one of us could potentially end up in a horrible situation such as this so there is nothing wrong with having a mature and open conversation about it!

            You have made similar comments before. You are an immature and shallow thinker, sad to say.

          • Are you kidding me? says:

            @Cuzzin: I also wanted to add that this isn’t over because the mall is still under siege. Of course we send best wishes to Joanne but she is out of danger; many more are not. This isn’t just about her, this is about the situation as a whole and us discussing it is not an insult to the Bermudian who survived. It isn’t ‘negativity’…do you live under a rock never wanting to discuss serious issues just because they are ‘negative’? Again, look at the bigger picture here, open that little, shallow thinking mind of yours or butt out because grown folk are talking here.

        • Thank God says:

          Hi Joanne, Glad you are safe.

          From the Zebra Family

        • Sapphire says:

          @Joanne: Glad you are o.k.

      • You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. It’s stupid to compare the brutal massacre of 39 people with murders which take place in Bermuda. They also have murders in Kenya on a regular basis.

      • Joanne says:

        Everyone is doing well. Quincy and I stayed home today. The kids are normal-having fun playing and doing their schoolwork. Thank you for asking.

  5. Nuffin but da Truth says:

    yup,,it’s Muslim related!

  6. scallywag says:

    Should we be surprised that an abundantly Muslim population is seeking to retain independence from its wealthy non Muslim over lords? Or is this a situation of neighboring enclaves (Somalia for ex) retaliating against encroaching Kenyan interests…? Or are we to believe this is simply another Islamic attempt to convert the world to its brand of faith….?

    One ought to be curious how the media spins this story….

    http://scallywagandvagabond.com/2013/09/kenyan-mall-shooting-leaves-22-dead-non-muslims-earmarked-hostages-taken/

  7. My Kind says:

    It seems to be a case of ‘my imaginary friend is better than yours’.

    Religion is really the cause of most of the hate in the world.

    Goodness that reminds me of a song:

    ..imagine there’s no heaven, its easy if you try…

    Ting ting ting

    • Mike Hind says:

      I personally think that it’s people twisting religion in order to hate that is the problem.

      When you look at Jesus’ message, it’s one of peace and love and tolerance.

      Folks have taken it – for centuries – and twisted it to suit their own selfish needs.

      • The Skink says:

        You are spot on Mike!

        • Balanced Facts says:

          Religion is poison!
          Glad Joann is safe…sorry for this tremendous loss in Kenya!

      • Concerned Citizen says:

        Agreed Mike! All humans are spiritual. Man have forgotten this fact, and use religion to try and remember. In that attempt to re-link, chaos reigns. Love thy neighbor as thyself….pretty simple to me.

    • Johnny says:

      Mike hind, do you have evidence that religion is the cause of most of the hate in the world. The European is actually the cause of all the hate in the world. Only the European has been hell bent on ruling the world and has waged wars and spread hate to try and accomplish this.

      • Hmmm says:

        The second Persian invasion of Greece (480–479 BC) occurred during the Greco-Persian Wars, as King Xerxes I of Persia sought to conquer all of Greece.

        Mongolian invasion of Japan

        The Aztecs were almost always at war. The cities they conquered would supply tribute which made the Aztecs rich.

        Plenty more.

      • Mike Hind says:

        I don’t need it. I didn’t make the claim. Read.

  8. Anne says:

    The mall is Israeli-owned so that made them an even bigger target by the Muslim terrorists. There are terrible photos online of the carnage. I only pray that terrorists don’t have plans in the works to try this elsewhere. We’ll have to watch and see if they raise the ‘terror alert’ in the U.S. and issue warnings to malls.

    Bermudians have a way of scoffing and saying that things like this will never happen to them but here we have a Bermudian being caught in this carnage all the way over in Kenya! More Bermudians frequent malls elsewhere so if (Heaven forbid) something like this happened somewhere like Woodbridge Mall at Thanksgiving the odds are higher that a Bermudian would be caught up in it.

    No need to panic but we are living in perilous times so we need to pay attention. Again, I pray that more attacks aren’t planned elsewhere.

  9. The Skink says:

    So often I read and hear of Christians as the scapegoats for violence and war. For those with this agenda, I will direct your attention to persons like Joseph Stalin, Pol Pot, Khmer Rouge, Caligula, Kim Jong Il who are committed atrocities to gruesome to mention. Yes there are those leaders who misrepresented the character of Christ but those are in the minority. I do not excuse their actions but direct my attention to something bigger, which is the state of evil in the world. We are in a battle of good vs evil and we need to place the blame where it belongs… with the devil himself and stop beating up each other.

  10. The Skink says:

    pardon my grammar above.

  11. My Kind says:

    Skink: The Devil is an imaginary entity and is used as an excuse for bad human behaviour.

    Beyond pathetic.

    • Sapphire says:

      @My Kind: You’re right…’The Devil Made Me Do It’ is such a cop-out.

    • The Skink says:

      You are entitled to your belief. I am not trying to convince you. It is obvious our fundamental worldviews are different. Therefore, dialougue will be unfruitful. By beholding you become changed.

  12. J Starling says:

    The actions in the mall are inhuman, they are seeking to breed division and polarisation.

    Fortunately, the pictures coming from the scene are showing a truly human response, human solidarity in the face of tragedy. Mulsim, Christian, Hindu, African, European, Asian, all working together to help each other.

    Let us focus on that, the capacity for truly human solidarity and compassion, and be thankful that our compatriot has escaped relatively unscathed.

    Let us not focus on those who would seek to breed division, hate and death, and who seek to disguise their inhumanity behind the facade of a religion, be it Islam, Christian, Buddhist, etc.

    • Are you serious? What part of la la land do you live in man? A horrible attack has taken place and you want to ignore it because people responded with kindness. Your comment shows indifference for the victims and their families.

      • Milton says:

        You want to ignore the human response to this atrocity which is exactly what the victims and their families need at this time, so that you can focus on your personal self stroking. I know that it is gratifying to have something to be angry about, but do like the others have done and build bridges and show that humanity and working together always trumps disunity and evildoers.

      • J Starling says:

        No where did I say ignore it.

        My comments are in reaction to those engaging in Islamophobia over it.

        I’m saying we can either engage in division (blaming this on Islam when it isn’t anything more to do with Islam than the Western attacks on Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Pakistan, Libya, Syria, etc has to do with Christianity). As others point out above, it’s about people exploiting and twisting religion for their own ends, and bears little to no (beyond some superficial rhetoric) to the religions in question.

        Personally, I find it more productive to focus on human compassion and human solidarity, which we can see demonstrated in the practical response to this tragedy, on the ground, of Muslim, Christian, other, African, European, Asian, other, working together, coming together, than to engage in Islamophobic blame-gaming.

    • Sapphire says:

      @J Starling: You may mean well, but this isn’t exactly a kumbaya moment. So far 59 have been killed and the place is still under siege. The people you saw weren’t thinking of peace and harmony or solidarity-they were truly terrified.

      What we need to focus on is making sure something like this doesn’t happen ANYWHERE in the world again, that’s what we need to focus on.

      • J Starling says:

        And no one is saying otherwise.

        But engaging in Islamophobia and isn’t going to stop something like this happen again. If anything it’s more likely to encourage it.

        Trying to reduce this issue to a simplistic (and false) ‘Islam is violent’ doesn’t inform a way to preventing atrocities like this happening again.

  13. TED says:

    Another FALSE FLAG. Black Ops. If you believe everything the media tells you, then you are surely naive. Don’t you people know that this was most likely a Mossad / CIA Operation. The scapegoat is always religion, namely Muslims. I am not religious but people need to wake up and snap out of this Mass Hypnosis.

    • Mike Hind says:

      Evidence?

      • My Kind says:

        The mass hypnosis is the teaching of religion in the first place. It has been shown now that this attack was religiously motivated – they specifically targeted Christians & Jews.

        My imaginary friend is better than yours so you must die is the way this works.

        And speaking of evidence, there is no evidence to support the existence of any of the man made deities. It is brainwashing nothing less.

        Off to the Peace concert now. I hear there’s a funny guy with a tiny instrument.

        Best of luck Mike – I’m root’n for ya!

        • The Skink says:

          Is there evidence for evolution? Those who hang on to evolution ignore many things in the history of the world. Scientists and archeologists today are debunking the theory through EVIDENCE! Let us not talk about the scientists who have witheld information and frabicated evidence in order to support claims they made. People are deceived because they don’t read information for themselves anymore and rely on information from others. They also don’t verify information to see if it is true.

          • My Kind says:

            Skink: But the problem isn’t evolution. You don’t see anyone going around killing people in the name of evolution.

            Clearly the Gods people worship are man made – made up, false, complete BS.

            And some people are willing to kill to prove their imaginary friend is best.

            Quite pathetic – as is your rather uniformed comment.

          • Mike Hind says:

            Nonsense. There is abundant evidence for evolution.
            What you call “debunking” is actually The Scientific Method, throwing out parts that don’t work as new evidence comes in, refining the Theory. It’s how science works.

            I have to ask, though… What theory are you proposing that has more evidence than evolution?

            And, more importantly, what does this have to do with what “TED” wrote?

        • Mike Hind says:

          I was asking for evidence of TED’s claim. Just to be clear.

      • The Skink says:

        Mike: Keep looking for and asking for evidence. The proverbial Dr.Foster on his way to Gloucester also thought he could continue on his path. We know what happened to him.

        • Mike Hind says:

          Yeah, we do. He got to Gloucester.
          I don’t know what this means.
          Are you saying asking for evidence is bad? Is good? I don’t get it…

    • Robert Daniels says:

      THANK YOU TED WELL SAID!
      Those that doubt ED have a look at this video. From the mouth of a dead man and comedian:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgAVpPNusTs

  14. Truth is killin' me... says:

    TED, the moon is really made out of blue cheese. It’s true…Google it!

    • Nuffin but da Truth says:

      DON’T LIE…it’s made out of CHEDDAR by 40 virgins!!!

  15. Alvin Williams says:

    The events in Kenya are part of an ancient conflict between the

    The events in Kenya although it has direct links with the decades long conflict in neighbouring Somalia which finally prompted Kenya to send military forces into that country after numerous raids across it’s border by the al-Qaeda linked militants al-Shabaab. It has deeper roots which link it to conflicts in Sudan; Chad;Darfur; Mali; Northern Nigeria.
    That link is the ancient divide between Arab speaking and Islamic northern Africa with Africa south of the Sahara; Black Africa.
    That link began with the Arab invasion of of Egypt after the fall of Roman dominion in North Africa. The African kingdom of Songhay; the Empire of Mali were some of the African civilizations that were over turn by the Arab invasion from the north. along with this Arab invasion came Islam and slavery. While much is know about the slave trade that went to the so-called new world mostly from west Africa; little is know about the black African slave trade that went from central and East Africa that went into the Arab world. That ancient divide remains today between north Africa and Africa south of the Sahara and increasingly you can trace the out lines of those ancient conflicts in the modern day conflicts we see today.

    • The Skink says:

      I studied this in graduate school. You are correct! It is interesting what the descendants of Ishmael have done.

      • Ishmael and Isaac are still at it.. God’s PLAN? It appears that ALL Israelite s are still at war from since they were given their lands.. By who? Here we go again..god.. Hell of a plan hey!!! The bible will lead you astray all of the time!!Less religion less wars!

    • Robert Daniels says:

      Al-Qaeda is a gun for hire. They will support any cause for the right amount of money. Those that join may have a religious agenda but they are naive. Those that have been in there for while worship the gun and the dollar.

  16. @Alvin Williams, spot on and so correct..

  17. aceboy says:

    Mr. Williams. The terrorists in this case questioned potential victims and asked if they were Muslim. If not “bang”. The root of the problem you may well be accurate about, but this is about religion. The evil of religion.

    Just like in Syria. I wonder what “good” Mr. Starling can focus on in relation to the sexual jihad that women in Tunisia are being forced to participate in? The same people who throw stones at women who get raped can easily justify rape in the name of Islam. The birth of children is nice and all….but as the result of being repeatedly raped by fighters with the name of their God on their lips?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10322578/Sex-Jihad-raging-in-Syria-claims-minister.html

  18. Robert Daniels says:

    In light of what happened and what’s going on Syria. This comedian has been speaking the TRUTH for years. Take a look at this video. From the mouth of a dead man R.I.P Mr. Carlin.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgAVpPNusTs

  19. aceboy says:

    Hilarious. Do you have a good clip of some funny beheadings too? We are about to see some more.

    Not sure what it has to do with Kenya or the use of sexual jihad being perpetrated in Syria. Do you think I advocate bombing Syria? If so…WHY? I don’t. I am not an American and every American I have spoken to wants nothing to do with Syria.

  20. My Kind says:

    Every religious murderer started off as an innocent child who was fed lies about a false God. It got out of hand and he eventually killed people who simply believed in a different false God.

    Religion poisons everything – kids should clearly not be told a bunch of lies.

    Christians aren’t much better. If at all. Christianity is simply used as an excuse for bad behaviour. (the devil made me do it). What happened in Kenya is basically the same thing only worse.

    There is no such thing as a religious child, only a child of religious parents.

    In centuries to come, we will evolve beyond religion and as a people we will realize that it was all made up by humans to control people – until then there are those who are easily led who will fall under the brainwashing known as religious instruction. Too ignorant to know any better. Very sad.

    Ting ting ting ting…

  21. This event like no other made it known to the world that Kenya was a kind of holiday destination. In the long run this could still boost its economy if people who visited there regularly take up its cause and help defend and stabilize it.